Thailand Live Wednesday 9 October 2024

[Usernames]

22 hours ago, ALLSEEINGEYE said:

They had a hell of a lot of cleanup to do after the mess that Bush and Cheney left for them, both militarily and economically.

 

The only question is how much of a mess will there be to clean up once this clown troop is done?

Obama/Clinton really cleaned up Libya and Syria (neither of which can be blamed on dunderhead Bush) and began the refugee tidal wave.

[heybruce]

25 minutes ago, Usernames said:

Obama/Clinton really cleaned up Libya and Syria (neither of which can be blamed on dunderhead Bush) and began the refugee tidal wave.

The US wasn't in Syria or Libya when the people rebelled against their dictators.  Obama had the US military play a support role in the UK and French operations that toppled Qaddafi, but nobody did anything to ensure stability afterwards.  Seems to me that should have been France's and the UK's job.

 

Obama looked for a coherent opposition alliance to support in Syria and found none.  It tried to put one together, but too few of the dozens of opposition groups were willing to work with the US.  So he wisely decided to stay out--the alternative was another invasion on a another Middle East country.

 

A lot of Trump supporters seem to think there are simple solutions to the mess in the Middle East.  I'm curious, how do you think Trump would have handled these two countries better?

[Gene1960]

The US wasn't in Syria or Libya when the people rebelled against their dictators.  Obama had the US military play a support role in the UK and French operations that toppled Qaddafi, but nobody did anything to ensure stability afterwards.  Seems to me that should have been France's and the UK's job.
 
Obama looked for a coherent opposition alliance to support in Syria and found none.  It tried to put one together, but too few of the dozens of opposition groups were willing to work with the US.  So he wisely decided to stay out--the alternative was another invasion on a another Middle East country.
 
A lot of Trump supporters seem to think there are simple solutions to the mess in the Middle East.  I'm curious, how do you think Trump would have handled these two countries better?

France began the mess in Libya and now almost everyone is blaming the USA for that. And than the official France preferred to forget about Libya altogether. Crazy.

[heybruce]

35 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

I have read what they had to say. I have also read the posters that disagree with it, who I find much more compelling.

Obama's "deal" gives Iran - a rogue nation that promotes Islamic Terrorism - path to a legitimate nuclear weapon and they did not have one before. It was possible to stop them by using sanctions or military power if necessary. That makes it the dumbest "deal" ever IMO and Obama is responsible for the USA agreeing to it.

Did you consider reading more credible sources?  Did you note that Iran could have acquired a nuclear weapon in two to three months before the deal?  Now, if Iran meets the terms of the agreement (meaning if Trump doesn't give them and excuse to abandon it) Iran will not have the means to produce weapons grade uranium for fifteen years.  If they begin a weapons program then, hopefully there will be a world leader with the skills to take appropriate action.  Thankfully Trump will be long out of office by then.

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

I have read what they had to say. I have also read the posters that disagree with it, who I find much more compelling.

Obama's "deal" gives Iran - a rogue nation that promotes Islamic Terrorism - path to a legitimate nuclear weapon and they did not have one before. It was possible to stop them by using sanctions or military power if necessary. That makes it the dumbest "deal" ever IMO and Obama is responsible for the USA agreeing to it.

Such ignorance. Hillary Clinton got Russia and China among others to agree to those sanctions. That was a pretty amazing achievement. But they and the Europeans weren't legally compelled to do so and if they felt the US was being unreasonable, they could have resumed trading.  The USA got the best deal it could that would satisfy the Europeans. Maybe Trump will break the deal.  In that case, Iran would be free to resume development of nuclear weapons.

As for being a terrorist state, when was the last time any of those terrorist attacks in Europe or the USA had anything to do with Iran?  That's a Salafist specialty. You know, the brand of Islam espoused by Trump's friends and investors in Saudi Arabia and the Arab Emirates.

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Did you consider reading more credible sources?  

 

Credible sources according to you? Sorry, not very convincing. There are plenty of credible sources that dismiss this deal as insane. 

You don't seem to understand that when and if Iran develops nukes, no "world leader" can stop them legally, if they wait long enough. That is what the "deal" is about and that is why they signed it. Rogue nation, Terrorism supporting Iran gets nukes eventually, even though they had signed an agreement NOT TO. What kind of "deal" is that?

 

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I have read what they had to say. I have also read the posters that disagree with it, who I find much more compelling.

Obama's "deal" gives Iran - a rogue nation that promotes Islamic Terrorism - path to a legitimate nuclear weapon and they did not have one before. It was possible to stop them by using sanctions or military power if necessary. That makes it the dumbest "deal" ever IMO and Obama is responsible for the USA agreeing to it.

I don't know the specifics of the deal, but sounds like it wasn't perfect, but better than war.

 

Iran is a rogue nation and needs to be dealt.  As do dozens of others.  Tough times globally now.  We need a strong leader to get us out of this mess, not make it worse.

[onthesoi]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

Iran is a rogue nation...

 

How does an autonomous and sovereign nation become a rogue nation?

 

Is it as simple as refusing to bow and scrape to America's global dictatorship?

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

How does an autonomous and sovereign nation become a rogue nation?

 

Is it as simple as refusing to bow and scrape to America's global dictatorship?

Iran, and Saudia Arabia, are two of the countries supporting terrorism.  In their region and globally.  That's a fact and easy to research.

 

Bow and scrape to America's global dictatorship?  Really?

[onthesoi]

16 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Iran, and Saudia Arabia, are two of the countries supporting terrorism.  In their region and globally.  That's a fact and easy to research.

 

Bow and scrape to America's global dictatorship?  Really?

 

The US also supports terrorism, that is also a fact and easy to research.

 

By calling Iran a rogue state you are just regurgitating decades old US propaganda, the US stopped using the term back in 2000, Bush retooled US propaganda terminology to 'Axis of Evil' in his state of the union address  on January 29, 2002 ...

 

But...you are avoiding the question:

How does an autonomous and sovereign nation become a rogue nation?

 

16 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Bow and scrape to America's global dictatorship?  Really?

 

Are you saying the US doesn't try to dictate and enforce terms to sovereign countries under threat of violence, sanctions etc?

 

Let me point you in the right direction, how many countries has the US bombed and sanctioned since WWII ?

Edited February 3, 2017 by onthesoi

[Jingthing]

I don't know the specifics of the deal, but sounds like it wasn't perfect, but better than war.
 
Iran is a rogue nation and needs to be dealt.  As do dozens of others.  Tough times globally now.  We need a strong leader to get us out of this mess, not make it worse.

trump is so bombastic that he is correctly seen as an unreliable ally by long time close friends. When trump needs a coalition for some what might be justified actions against Iran and others there's a good chance that coalition won't be with him.

[craigt3365]

Just now, onthesoi said:

 

The US also supports terrorism, that is also a fact and easy to research.

 

By calling Iran a rogue state you are just regurgitating decades old US propaganda, the US stopped using the term back in 2000, Bush retooled US propaganda terminology to 'Axis of Evil' in his state of the union address  on January 29, 2002 ...

 

But...you are avoid the question:

 

How does an autonomous and sovereign nation become a rogue nation?

 

 

Are you saying the US doesn't try to dictate and enforce terms to sovereign countries under threat of violence, sanctions etc?

Absolutely agree.  The US has supported Terrorist organizations.  Just like a majority of the countries around the world have done at one time or another.  At least you agree Iran also does this.

 

Ok, I take back the Rogue nation label.  But they are still one of the biggest supporters of terrorist organizations globally.

 

The US can dictate all it wants.  It's up to the other country to accept it or not.  Sanctions?  Which ones would you be referring to?  Same with threats of violence.

[heybruce]

19 hours ago, heybruce said:

Did you consider reading more credible sources?  Did you note that Iran could have acquired a nuclear weapon in two to three months before the deal?  Now, if Iran meets the terms of the agreement (meaning if Trump doesn't give them and excuse to abandon it) Iran will not have the means to produce weapons grade uranium for fifteen years.  If they begin a weapons program then, hopefully there will be a world leader with the skills to take appropriate action.  Thankfully Trump will be long out of office by then.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Credible sources according to you? Sorry, not very convincing. There are plenty of credible sources that dismiss this deal as insane. 

You don't seem to understand that when and if Iran develops nukes, no "world leader" can stop them legally, if they wait long enough. That is what the "deal" is about and that is why they signed it. Rogue nation, Terrorism supporting Iran gets nukes eventually, even though they had signed an agreement NOT TO. What kind of "deal" is that?

 

You edit my post to one short sentence and only answer that, and not convincingly.  I didn't tell you what credible sources to use, I merely pointed out that there are better sources of information than Thai Visa posts, which you said was your source of information.  Feel free to find credible sources on your own, but try to do better than Thai Visa posts.

 

Regarding:

 

"You don't seem to understand that when and if Iran develops nukes, no "world leader" can stop them legally, if they wait long enough. "

 

You are ignoring the facts again.  The goal is to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons, not to wait until they do so.  That is what Obama did, and Trump is threatening to undo.

[Ulysses G.]

41 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

  I didn't tell you what credible sources to use, I merely pointed out that there are better sources of information than Thai Visa posts, which you said was your source of information.  Feel free to find credible sources on your own, but try to do better than Thai Visa post.

Huh? Where did I say anything like that? I have studied the subject for months and not on Thai Visa. However, I do appreciate posts on Thai Visa that approximate what I have learned elsewhere.

 

Obama DID NOT stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons. At most he delayed them, but also made it possible for them to do so in the future legitimately. That is just plain foolishness.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[heybruce]

 

22 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

I have read what they had to say. I have also read the posters that disagree with it, who I find much more compelling.

Obama's "deal" gives Iran - a rogue nation that promotes Islamic Terrorism - path to a legitimate nuclear weapon and they did not have one before. It was possible to stop them by using sanctions or military power if necessary. That makes it the dumbest "deal" ever IMO and Obama is responsible for the USA agreeing to it.

 

21 hours ago, heybruce said:

Did you consider reading more credible sources?  Did you note that Iran could have acquired a nuclear weapon in two to three months before the deal?  Now, if Iran meets the terms of the agreement (meaning if Trump doesn't give them and excuse to abandon it) Iran will not have the means to produce weapons grade uranium for fifteen years.  If they begin a weapons program then, hopefully there will be a world leader with the skills to take appropriate action.  Thankfully Trump will be long out of office by then.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

Huh? Where did I say anything like that? I have studied the subject for months and not on Thai Visa. However, I do appreciate posts on Thai Visa that approximate what I have learned elsewhere.

 

Obama DID NOT stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons. At most he delayed them, but also made it possible for them to do so in the future legitimately. That is just plain foolishness.

You clearly gave the impression that your information came from Thai Visa.

 

Yes, Obama delayed Iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon from three months to 15 years.  After 15 years it will still be illegal for Iran to develop a nuclear weapon; if they attempt to do so the international community can address the issue again.

 

However at this point I think it is time to agree to disagree.  You think Iran 3 months away from acquiring a nuclear weapon is better than Iran 15 years away from acquiring a nuclear weapon.  I disagree.

[Andaman Al]

I think the sanctions placed on Iran are nothing to do with the missile launch. The Trump administration was looking for any excuse. The missile launch did not breach any existing resolutions, and its that simple. THIS is the reason the US have reacted and they will now trigger a round of tit for tat responses that will result in a war being declared in the next 2 months.

 

Quote

Iran to stop using US dollar in response to Donald Trump's 'Muslim ban'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-stop-using-us-dollar-currency-donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration-refugee-iraq-syria-libya-a7556846.html

 

Iran has been planning this for some time. The headline is a little misleading. Iran have now brought forward their date for ditching the dollar to March 20/21. Trump is engineering the war he wants and it will happen. ANY country that has ever threatened to ditch the US dollar as its oil currency has ALWAYS been taken out. Israel will currently have it's finger on the hair trigger along with our friendly terrorist free allies Saudi Arabia. Stock up un essentials!!!

[onthesoi]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Iran has been planning this for some time. The headline is a little misleading. Iran have now brought forward their date for ditching the dollar to March 20/21. Trump is engineering the war he wants and it will happen. ANY country that has ever threatened to ditch the US dollar as its oil currency has ALWAYS been taken out. Israel will currently have it's finger on the hair trigger along with our friendly terrorist free allies Saudi Arabia. Stock up un essentials!!!

 

Not a bad call, Trump need somewhere to invade and fast!

[Ulysses G.]

15 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

 

 

You clearly gave the impression that your information came from Thai Visa.

Nonsense - I never indicated any such thing - and keeping Iran from developing nukes for 3 months is not worth much at all. They signed the nonproliferation treaty and are violating it. They never should have been allowed.

 

Even if they honor the deal (which they have violated already) they will be able to develop them eventually, while still  honoring the "deal". Even Obama admitted that.

 

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2015/04/17/obamas-iran-nuclear-deal-is-an-unforgivable-betrayal-of-israel

[Andaman Al]

25 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Nonsense - I never indicated any such thing - and keeping Iran from developing nukes for 3 months is not worth much at all. They signed the nonproliferation treaty and are violating it. They never should have been allowed.

 

Even if they honor the deal (which they have violated already) they will be able to develop them eventually, while still  honoring the "deal". Even Obama admitted that.

 

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2015/04/17/obamas-iran-nuclear-deal-is-an-unforgivable-betrayal-of-israel

Who is violating their non-proliferation treaty? And how? Is this fake news?Alternative facts?

[Ulysses G.]

Iran was violating it. That is where all the UN Resolutions came from and they have also violated the nuclear deal by surpassing it's limit for heavy water. You really should learn about the subject that you are commenting on before crying fake news.

[Andaman Al]

21 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

Iran was violating it. That is where all the UN Resolutions came from and they have also violated the nuclear deal by surpassing it's limit for heavy water. You really should learn about the subject that you are commenting on before crying fake news.

I know a great deal about the subject thank you. What is the reason for the current tension? According to Trump it is (according to the thread title and all the news reports):

 

Quote

Trump adopts aggressive posture towards Iran after missile launch

Nothing to do with your heavy water. As it happens the missile launch did not contravene any resolutions or agreements. When dealing with Trump if you want the truth, follow the money. Iran has been planning to scrub the USD as its petro currency. Now Donald is escalating, and after the new sanctions, Iran has announced the currency change will be brought forward and it will scrub the USD by Mar 21. Now watch the USA  backed by Saudi and Israel start a conflict, i mean WAR. It is what the military industrial complex wants, what the oil companies wants, what the manufacturers of body bags want and what Trump NEEDS. But on this one either China or Russia will step in or much worse, both. We won't need to worry about arguing that on TV as most of the world will be back to paper and pencil for communicating overseas soon if Trump and Bannon's master plan work out.

[Ulysses G.]

Iran has violated both UN Resolutions and the UN "deal" a number of times already and it is only going to get worse.

Iran Breaches the Nuclear Deal and UN Resolutions for Third Time

Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement for the third time since the nuclear deal went into effect in January 2016. Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles.

In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.

In March, Iran again test-fired two ballistic missiles.

More recently and for the third time, the Iranian government fired a test missile two weeks ago which was accurate to 25 feet, which is characterized as zero error, according to the Brigadier General Ali Abdollahi, the Iranian military’s deputy chief of staff, and Iran’s semi-official Tasnim news agency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html

 

Iran once again exceeds a nuclear deal limit: IAEA report

 

Iran has exceeded a soft limit on sensitive material set under its nuclear deal with major powers, the U.N. atomic watchdog said on Wednesday, hours after Donald Trump - who has strongly criticized the agreement - won the U.S. presidential election.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKBN1342T1

 

I

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

Iran has violated both UN Resolutions and the UN "deal" a number of times already and it is only going to get worse.

Iran Breaches the Nuclear Deal and UN Resolutions for Third Time

Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement for the third time since the nuclear deal went into effect in January 2016. Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles.

In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.

In March, Iran again test-fired two ballistic missiles.

More recently and for the third time, the Iranian government fired a test missile two weeks ago which was accurate to 25 feet, which is characterized as zero error, according to the Brigadier General Ali Abdollahi, the Iranian military’s deputy chief of staff, and Iran’s semi-official Tasnim news agency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html

 

Iran once again exceeds a nuclear deal limit: IAEA report

 

Iran has exceeded a soft limit on sensitive material set under its nuclear deal with major powers, the U.N. atomic watchdog said on Wednesday, hours after Donald Trump - who has strongly criticized the agreement - won the U.S. presidential election.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKBN1342T1

 

I

You are worse than Kelly Ann CONway.

 

The articles you cite are from May and Nov 2016 respectively. They are NOTHING to do with why Flynn and Trump gave Iran 'Notice' 2-3 days ago. The 'notice' was given after the launch of a ballistic missile, which was first stated as breaching the terms of the nuclear agreement. It DID NOT. The US then said well it was aggressive posturing. It is nonsense. Now you can sit on your sofa and spout and spin whatever you wish in support of these clowns but be aware that Trump will take away your liberty and freedom and he WILL start another war in which thousands more sons and daughters of the US AND potentially hundreds of thousands of civilians will die. All of you that put him in power will go to your own graves with blood on your hands. The scene is set for war and it will happen. Trump once again acting like a fool instead of using diplomacy and as a result Iran have brought forward the scrapping of the Iranian petro currency from the dollar before the end of March, there are very few options left if Trump is to avoid losing face. The only way of stopping a war will be for the Senior Republicans to impeach Trump. We are approaching checkmate with only a few possible moves left and it would seem the only way is the impeachment of Trump. Wait and watch, it will happen very soon, because thankfully even the most ardent Republican Politicians are a whole lot more clever and wise than Trump and his supporters.

[Ulysses G.]

7 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

 

The articles you cite are from May and Nov 2016 respectively. They are NOTHING to do with why Flynn and Trump gave Iran 'Notice' 2-3 days ago.

 

Nice attempt at distraction, but the articles cite examples of Iran broaching both the Iran "deal" and UN Resolutions. You do realize that Trump was not in power in 2016 and that even Obama admitted that the missile launches violated the spirit of the pact. However, as usual, he did nothing about it. The new Sheriff in town WILL. 

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Nice attempt at distraction, but the articles cite examples of Iran broaching both the Iran "deal" and UN Resolutions. You do realize that Trump was not in power in 2016 and that even Obama admitted that the missile launches violated the spirit of the pact. However, as usual, he did nothing about it. The new Sheriff in town WILL. 

You didn't answer his question about the current launch.  You deflected.

 

A current showing it violated UN resolutions would be good.

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Nonsense - I never indicated any such thing - and keeping Iran from developing nukes for 3 months is not worth much at all. They signed the nonproliferation treaty and are violating it. They never should have been allowed.

 

Even if they honor the deal (which they have violated already) they will be able to develop them eventually, while still  honoring the "deal". Even Obama admitted that.

 

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2015/04/17/obamas-iran-nuclear-deal-is-an-unforgivable-betrayal-of-israel

I included your post that led me to believe Thai Visa was your only source of information on this topic.  Here it is again:

 

" I have read what they had to say. I have also read the posters that disagree with it, who I find much more compelling. "

 

No mention of any other source of information.  I reached the logical conclusion that you posting while informed only by other TV posts.  As is your habit, you edited my post to reply only to a brief out of context statement.

 

By the way, if you had not edited my post to a trivial snippet you would know that your statement "keeping Iran from developing nukes for 3 months is not worth much" supports my argument.  Try reading my full post.

 

The opinion piece you reference is unconvincing,   In particular the third from the last paragraph lists requirements for a an acceptable deal, the key ones are included in the deal. 

 

Yes, Iran maintains the ability to do nuclear research that could used for weapons development, among other things.  Many countries have this ability.  However Iran has agreed to limit uranium enrichment to less than 3.7% and to cap the low enriched uranium to 660 kg, all uranium above this level will be shipped out of the country.  A nuclear bomb requires enrichment to above 90%.  Iran has also agreed to modify a nuclear reactor under construction so that it can't be used to produce plutonium.  It has agreed to on-sight inspections to verify this.     https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/31/world/middleeast/simple-guide-nuclear-talks-iran-us.html?_r=0

 

At the end of the fifteen years parts of the agreement will expire.  However since Iran is a party of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty any attempt to develop a nuclear weapon will be a violation of the agreement and will lead to international efforts against Iran.  That was the justification to the sanctions and agreement currently in place.

 

Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other countries wanted the sanctions to remain in place until the Iranian government collapsed.  However imminent collapse would have driven the conservatives in Iran to expedite development of a nuclear weapon and use it to blackmail sanctions relief.  Also, as we've seen several times since 2000, the collapse of a regime in the Middle East is a messy thing with lots of unpleasant, unforeseen consequences. 

 

Finally, Russia, China, and other countries that wanted to trade with Iran, and get first mover advantages, would have unilaterally ended their sanctions if any semblance of a workable deal had been abandoned.

 

I'll end with a futile attempt at preventing you from replying to out of contexts edits of this post:  You are a complete intellectual coward if you reply to anything but my full post.

Edited February 5, 2017 by heybruce

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Iran has violated both UN Resolutions and the UN "deal" a number of times already and it is only going to get worse.

Iran Breaches the Nuclear Deal and UN Resolutions for Third Time

Iranian leaders have breached both the resolutions and the nuclear agreement for the third time since the nuclear deal went into effect in January 2016. Iran has repeatedly test-fired, long-range ballistic missiles and laser-guided surface-to-surface missiles.

In October and November, just after the nuclear deal was reached, Iran tested a new ballistic missile capable of carrying multiple warheads.

In March, Iran again test-fired two ballistic missiles.

More recently and for the third time, the Iranian government fired a test missile two weeks ago which was accurate to 25 feet, which is characterized as zero error, according to the Brigadier General Ali Abdollahi, the Iranian military’s deputy chief of staff, and Iran’s semi-official Tasnim news agency.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/majid-rafizadeh/iran-breached-the-nuclear_b_9977768.html

 

Iran once again exceeds a nuclear deal limit: IAEA report

 

Iran has exceeded a soft limit on sensitive material set under its nuclear deal with major powers, the U.N. atomic watchdog said on Wednesday, hours after Donald Trump - who has strongly criticized the agreement - won the U.S. presidential election.

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKBN1342T1

 

I

Iran is testing the limits on what qualifies as a nuclear capable missile and checking to see how observant the inspectors are on heavy water.  No surprise there.  They didn't get away with it.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

More distractions. Israel's nuclear program is perfectly legal and has nothing to do with Iran's nuclear program or the topic of this thread.

Israel is not a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, so it may be legal for it to have nuclear weapons.  However Israel's refusal to confirm or deny is curious.

[Linzz]

On 2/2/2017 at 5:50 PM, boomerangutang said:

 All reasonable people saw it as one country fulfilling its business agreements with another.  

That sounds a tad idealistic Boomer.. Was Iran reasonably legitimizing  it's business agreements by immediately after Obama's secret deal (coincidentally paid out on the same day as hostages were released ) Iran seized 2 more hostages? 

" Rouhani won’t be picky about what lies the American public gets told.

Iran’s hostage-taking habit is just one more mess the next president will have to clean up."

 

http://nypost.com/2016/10/20/iran-just-raised-its-price-for-the-next-hostage-ransom/

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.