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[webfact]

UK PM May quashes attempts to derail her Brexit plan in parliament

By William James

REUTERS

 

Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May leaves 10 Downing Street in London, Britain February 1, 2017. REUTERS/Neil Hall

 

LONDON (Reuters) - UK Prime Minister Theresa May won approval from parliament's lower chamber on Wednesday to trigger Britain's exit from the European Union, defeating attempts by pro-EU lawmakers to attach extra conditions to her plan to start divorce talks by March 31.

 

Lawmakers (MPs) voted 494 to 122 in favour of legislation giving May the right to trigger Brexit, ending days of intense debate. The bill now needs the approval of the upper chamber, in which May does not have a majority, before it becomes law.

 

The victory marks a significant step towards starting what is expected to be a complex and difficult two-year negotiation with the EU on issues such as trade, immigration and security that will redraw Britain's role in the world.

 

"We've seen a historic vote tonight," said Brexit minister David Davis. "A big majority for getting on with negotiating our exit from the EU and a strong, new partnership with its member states."

 

After surviving a minor rebellion from within May's Conservative Party that had threatened to undermine her authority and negotiating strategy, the law was passed without amendment and on schedule.

 

That raised expectations that the bill will enjoy an equally smooth passage in the unelected House of Lords, when its journey there begins in earnest on Feb. 20. The government wants to complete the legislative process by March 7.

 

Sources close to discussions in the upper chamber said they expected peers to keep pushing for parliament to have more say during the negotiating process. One source said that could mean a one-week delay to the law's final approval, but neither expected the process to endanger May's end of March deadline.

 

STRAINING UNITY

 

At times rancorous, the debate exposed two major faultlines running through Britain's post-referendum politics: ‎the disconnect between strongly pro-EU Scotland and the rest of the country, and the division over Europe in the opposition Labour Party.

 

An opinion poll indicated on Wednesday that support for Scottish independence had risen since May came out last month in favour of Britain making a clean break when it leaves the EU.

 

Scottish National Party lawmakers repeatedly said in parliament they were being denied a voice in the Brexit process, which was fuelling demand for another independence referendum.

 

"The barracking by government members and the preventing of SNP MPs from speaking in this House play right into our hands and result in headlines saying that support for independence is surging," said SNP lawmaker Joanna Cherry.

 

As the final votes were being counted, SNP lawmakers sang Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" - the EU's anthem - in the debating chamber.

The law has also become a conduit for frustrations within the Labour Party, which has split over whether it should support May's vision of Brexit or try to block it to secure a different deal.

 

Labour's support is divided between more prosperous urban constituencies that generally favoured staying in the EU and declining industrial areas that strongly backed Brexit. To complicate things further, many pro-EU Labour lawmakers represent anti-EU areas.

 

Dozens of Labour lawmakers voted against the bill, defying their leader Jeremy Corbyn, who said they should support the law even though their attempts to amend it had failed. Several members of Corbyn's policy team resigned over the issue.

 

"I ... cannot, in all good conscience, vote for something I believe will ultimately harm the city I have the honour to represent, love and call home," said Clive Lewis, Corbyn's business spokesman, who quit moments before the vote.

 

(Additional reporting by Kylie MacLellan and Elizabeth Piper; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-02-09

[NanLaew]

Now, let's get on with it. Please!

[jpinx]

Good news, but only the first skirmish, unfortunately...

 

It gets to the point where people are caring less and less about what the result will be -- they just want this finished.....

[NanLaew]

The second skirmish will be the Lords and unlikely they will send anything back unless it is for minor cosmetics.

 

What other skirmishes do you see with the SNP's second independence referendum being still born?

[Jip99]

8 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The second skirmish will be the Lords and unlikely they will send anything back unless it is for minor cosmetics.

 

What other skirmishes do you see with the SNP's second independence referendum being still born?

 

I would like to think so as well  -  but the Lords can be unpredictable and they are are certainly representative of the establishment/ruling classes. Nothing would surprise me.

 

 

I see the SNP being ineffectual in all this. The question of independence can be revisited later - I am not convinced that campaign has credibility whilst the poisonous pixie remains leader.

[jpinx]

46 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The second skirmish will be the Lords and unlikely they will send anything back unless it is for minor cosmetics.

 

What other skirmishes do you see with the SNP's second independence referendum being still born?

It's going to depend on how the negotiating team will be reporting.  If it all stops at the PM's desk, there'll not be anything to say until the final package is presented in the house.  Now *THAT* is going to be an interesting day :)

 

The UK negotiating team might keep quiet about the talks, but will the EU team?

Edited February 9, 2017 by jpinx

[nauseus]

But a great day. Get the UK out asap. There might not be an EU to negotiate with in 2  years!

Edited February 9, 2017 by nauseus
missed character

[jpinx]

Given the timing of the process, it's going to be interesting to see who UK ends up "doing the deal" with.  It won't be Hollande and might not be Merkel.  It's an interesting year :)

Edited February 9, 2017 by jpinx

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, jpinx said:

Good news, but only the first skirmish, unfortunately...

 

It gets to the point where people are caring less and less about what the result will be -- they just want this finished.....

 

I agree with that. I voted to remain and still think we're leaving for the wrong reasons. However, we are now following the correct parliamentary procedures and must accept British constitutional democracy. 

 

I don't think there was ever a realistic chance of a soft Brexit. The liberal socialists who want to see an fully integrated federal EU, and that includes Merkel, Hollande and Juncke, all need to exert pressure on other member states to stop any others thinking of delaying their "vision", or trying to get a special deal or even leave. Being seen to be inflexible, hard nosed and punishing Britain is their way to do that. In addition we have the usual bigots who hate real democracy which Britain stands for and prefer the politicians and bureaucrat class know best approach seen in some EU states.

 

Therefore, whether anyone likes it or not, those negotiating the Brexit deal, will always have been on a hiding to nothing as the other party isn't really interested in co-operating. The issues are going to be about money - and that will get acrimonious. 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, jpinx said:

Given the timing of the process, it's going to be interesting to see who UK ends up "doing the deal" with.  It won't be Hollande and might not be Merkel.  It's an interesting year :)

 

The deal, such as it is, will be done with the EU appointed negotiating team; and approved by the EU parliament and council of leaders.

 

I doubt much will change in the European elections. France, Germany won't go for much change, they haven't the balls. Merkel again or maybe Schulz who is very anti British; A socialist for France now that Fillon has blown it. Not got the balls for Le Pen. Netherlands might just shock and go for Wilders but most Dutch say they won't, not when it comes to the brink.

 

So as the dear old German Foreign Minister said just before the Brexit vote - "elections can't be allowed to change things"!

[jpinx]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The deal, such as it is, will be done with the EU appointed negotiating team; and approved by the EU parliament and council of leaders.

 

I doubt much will change in the European elections. France, Germany won't go for much change, they haven't the balls. Merkel again or maybe Schulz who is very anti British; A socialist for France now that Fillon has blown it. Not got the balls for Le Pen. Netherlands might just shock and go for Wilders but most Dutch say they won't, not when it comes to the brink.

 

So as the dear old German Foreign Minister said just before the Brexit vote - "elections can't be allowed to change things"!

Priceless quote -- you gotta give me a source for it so that I can poke a few people in the eye with it :)

 

Not sure about the results across Europe, but then anyone who says things will turn out a certain way is expressing a preference, not an accurate prediction.    As the polls have dramatically demonstrated over the last 12 months on many topics - nobody really knows what's going on ..

 

[smedly]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

As the final votes were being counted, SNP lawmakers sang Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" - the EU's anthem - in the debating chamber.

you reap what you sow

[elgordo38]

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Now, let's get on with it. Please!

I was wondering when this question would pop up. First in line. 

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

you reap what you sow

Yes your right. I am trying to dodge the grim reaper. After decades of abuse my stalwart old body just refuses to give up the ghost. What a champion. 

[jpinx]

3 minutes ago, elgordo38 said:

Yes your right. I am trying to dodge the grim reaper. After decades of abuse my stalwart old body just refuses to give up the ghost. What a champion. 

Some of us are still sowing, even though others at the same stage in life are sharpening their scythes. 

[elgordo38]

22 minutes ago, jpinx said:

Some of us are still sowing, even though others at the same stage in life are sharpening their scythes. 

Carry on.

[emilymat]

You have to hand it to the government.

 

An unelected, pro remain, Prime Minister is now the darling of the tabloids.

 

I have no problem with the process now but, looking back, it's crazy how we got into this position, with the architects (DM and NF) jumping ship and making thousands on the 'speaking' circuit, a leader of the opposition, who is an absolute joke but also in real danger of destroying the Labour Party, the SNP so blinded by their general election victory they seem unable to grasp the national interest of the UK.

 

I could go on and on, as many on this forum probably could, about the hypocrisy and double standards of a large number of MP's etc, but why bother.  The country is now run by sound bites.

 

I do actually believe the Lib Dems will prosper electorally,even though the chances (at present) of a second referendum are remote. Take me for instance, a Labour supporter all my life, but with the best  will in the world, couldn't vote for JC as PM. Given the Tories and UKIP are out of the frame, where is there to go?.

 

Whatever the theory of the general election, a large majority of people vote for both a party and Prime Minister.   If Ed Milliband  had not been leader and someone more 'acceptable' to the public and establishment had been at the helm, maybe the GE would have  been different. (I had no problem with Ed Milliband but he stood no chance once the tabloids had the bacon sandwich story etc.) He was pretty good at PMQ's, something  neither of the current two can match.

[7by7]

51 minutes ago, emilymat said:

with the architects (DM and NF) jumping ship

 In my opinion, Cameron did the honourable thing. Having nailed his Remain colours firmly to the mast, having staked his political reputation on the result of the referendum; he lost. He is being criticised by some for 'jumping ship,' but had he not resigned he would have been labelled a hypocrite by many more.

 

May emerged as leader of the Conservatives, and therefore Prime Minister, in much the same way as Brown took over from Blair, as all the other candidates dropped out. I must admit that, whilst being highly critical of her when she was Home Secretary, I think she has handled Brexit very well to date. A mistake, in hindsight, not to have sought Parliamentary approval to trigger Article 50 at the beginning; but other than that; so far, so good.

 

She was a remain supporter; true. But has accepted the will of the people and is now attempting to obtain what she believes is the best deal for the country. Of course, others may very well not agree with her over what the best deal entails!

 

Unfortunately, not all believe in respecting the will of the people. I only caught the end of Newsnight last night, but there was a Labour peer being interviewed, I'm afraid I didn't catch his name, and he said that he would do all he could to block Brexit as he could not "in all conscience"  vote for something he thought was wrong. When challenged that Brexit is what the people voted for, his reply was the 48% voted against it. It was also pointed out to him that no one voted for him to be in the House of Lords; a remark he didn't care for!

 

As for Farage. He still has his nose deep in the EU trough, is still pocketing his MEPs salary and expenses and no doubt, if at all possible, will draw his MEP's pension after Brexit!

Edited February 9, 2017 by 7by7

[uptheos]

I hope the House of Lords stays awake and understands why they are there!

[evadgib]

@emilymat 

 

I watch PMQ's every week and cannot recall a single exchange involving Teresa May where she hasn't completely demolished Corbyn, SNP or anyone trying to torpedo the brexit process.

 

She's 'Maggie' with the addition of a welcome sense of humour :)

Edited February 9, 2017 by evadgib

[dunroaming]

I agree with 7by7 on his post above but have reservations about May's ability to negotiate a good result.  I fully understand her hard nosed approach but she also needs to be adaptable.  Time will tell as always and I, like everyone else, hope for a good and positive outcome.  I do think much depends on the forthcoming election results in Europe and I am sure that will shape the negotiation stance of the EU and inevitably the UK.

 

There will be no problem with the Lords as there wasn't in the lower house.  It's May's game now and we just have to wait for the kick-off.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, emilymat said:

You have to hand it to the government.

 

An unelected, pro remain, Prime Minister is now the darling of the tabloids.

 

I have no problem with the process now but, looking back, it's crazy how we got into this position, with the architects (DM and NF) jumping ship and making thousands on the 'speaking' circuit, a leader of the opposition, who is an absolute joke but also in real danger of destroying the Labour Party, the SNP so blinded by their general election victory they seem unable to grasp the national interest of the UK.

 

I could go on and on, as many on this forum probably could, about the hypocrisy and double standards of a large number of MP's etc, but why bother.  The country is now run by sound bites.

 

I do actually believe the Lib Dems will prosper electorally,even though the chances (at present) of a second referendum are remote. Take me for instance, a Labour supporter all my life, but with the best  will in the world, couldn't vote for JC as PM. Given the Tories and UKIP are out of the frame, where is there to go?.

 

Whatever the theory of the general election, a large majority of people vote for both a party and Prime Minister.   If Ed Milliband  had not been leader and someone more 'acceptable' to the public and establishment had been at the helm, maybe the GE would have  been different. (I had no problem with Ed Milliband but he stood no chance once the tabloids had the bacon sandwich story etc.) He was pretty good at PMQ's, something  neither of the current two can match.

I also feel rather disenfranchised 

 

Fancy starting a new party? We need a name .......

 

wait for it!

[uptheos]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

@emilymat 

 

I watch PMQ's every week and cannot recall a single exchange involving Teresa May where she hasn't completely demolished Corbyn, SNP or anyone trying to torpedo the brexit process.

 

She's Maggie with a sense of humour :)

After shes finished with Corbyn I feel quite sorry for him

Bit like a football time already relegated and they have no one to revive them

 

I think that May has been quite good so far, she going to have much less to worry 

about when Le Pen starts winning big time and Greece needs a substantial bail out again.

 

Thank goodness that she forging ahead and getting out of this club ASAP.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, emilymat said:

You have to hand it to the government.

 

An unelected, pro remain, Prime Minister is now the darling of the tabloids.

 

I have no problem with the process now but, looking back, it's crazy how we got into this position, with the architects (DM and NF) jumping ship and making thousands on the 'speaking' circuit, a leader of the opposition, who is an absolute joke but also in real danger of destroying the Labour Party, the SNP so blinded by their general election victory they seem unable to grasp the national interest of the UK.

 

I could go on and on, as many on this forum probably could, about the hypocrisy and double standards of a large number of MP's etc, but why bother.  The country is now run by sound bites.

 

I do actually believe the Lib Dems will prosper electorally,even though the chances (at present) of a second referendum are remote. Take me for instance, a Labour supporter all my life, but with the best  will in the world, couldn't vote for JC as PM. Given the Tories and UKIP are out of the frame, where is there to go?.

 

Whatever the theory of the general election, a large majority of people vote for both a party and Prime Minister.   If Ed Milliband  had not been leader and someone more 'acceptable' to the public and establishment had been at the helm, maybe the GE would have  been different. (I had no problem with Ed Milliband but he stood no chance once the tabloids had the bacon sandwich story etc.) He was pretty good at PMQ's, something  neither of the current two can match.

I also feel rather disenfranchised 

 

Fancy starting a new party? We need a name .......

 

wait for it!

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I also feel rather disenfranchised 

 

Fancy starting a new party? We need a name .......

 

wait for it!

OK..... I'm waiting. 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 In my opinion, Cameron did the honourable thing. Having nailed his Remain colours firmly to the mast, having staked his political reputation on the result of the referendum; he lost. He is being criticised by some for 'jumping ship,' but had he not resigned he would have been labelled a hypocrite by many more.

 

May emerged as leader of the Conservatives, and therefore Prime Minister, in much the same way as Brown took over from Blair, as all the other candidates dropped out. I must admit that, whilst being highly critical of her when she was Home Secretary, I think she has handled Brexit very well to date. A mistake, in hindsight, not to have sought Parliamentary approval to trigger Article 50 at the beginning; but other than that; so far, so good.

 

She was a remain supporter; true. But has accepted the will of the people and is now attempting to obtain what she believes is the best deal for the country. Of course, others may very well not agree with her over what the best deal entails!

 

Unfortunately, not all believe in respecting the will of the people. I only caught the end of Newsnight last night, but there was a Labour peer being interviewed, I'm afraid I didn't catch his name, and he said that he would do all he could to block Brexit as he could not "in all conscience"  vote for something he thought was wrong. When challenged that Brexit is what the people voted for, his reply was the 48% voted against it. It was also pointed out to him that no one voted for him to be in the House of Lords; a remark he didn't care for!

 

As for Farage. He still has his nose deep in the EU trough, is still pocketing his MEPs salary and expenses and no doubt, if at all possible, will draw his MEP's pension after Brexit!

You surprise me 7by7. You of all people should understand that MPs have a duty to vote for what they believe is in the best interests of the country and their constituents. They are under no obligation to vote in line with the majority of their constituents. Some fools ask if MPs think they are wiser or are better informed than their constituents; of course they are, that's the whole point!!

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

OK..... I'm waiting. 

I was expecting you lot to come up with witty names for the new party!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

@emilymat 

 

I watch PMQ's every week and cannot recall a single exchange involving Teresa May where she hasn't completely demolished Corbyn, SNP or anyone trying to torpedo the brexit process.

 

She's 'Maggie' with the addition of a welcome sense of humour :)

I hated Thatcher, but her IQ was FAR superior to May.

[7by7]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

<snip>

Unfortunately, not all believe in respecting the will of the people. I only caught the end of Newsnight last night, but there was a Labour peer being interviewed, I'm afraid I didn't catch his name, and he said that he would do all he could to block Brexit as he could not "in all conscience"  vote for something he thought was wrong

You surprise me 7by7. You of all people should understand that MPs have a duty to vote for what they believe is in the best interests of the country and their constituents.............

 

As a peer, he wasn't voted into office by anyone; he represents nobody.

 

As far as MPs in the Commons are concerned; yes we are a representative democracy, and as such I would normally agree with you.

 

But this situation is not normal. Referenda are extremely rare in the UK; but when they are held, even if advisory, I believe it is the democratic duty of Parliament, both Houses, to respect the view of the electorate and act accordingly.

 

 

[Grouse]

35 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I agree with 7by7 on his post above but have reservations about May's ability to negotiate a good result.  I fully understand her hard nosed approach but she also needs to be adaptable.  Time will tell as always and I, like everyone else, hope for a good and positive outcome.  I do think much depends on the forthcoming election results in Europe and I am sure that will shape the negotiation stance of the EU and inevitably the UK.

 

There will be no problem with the Lords as there wasn't in the lower house.  It's May's game now and we just have to wait for the kick-off.

"It's May's game now and we just have to wait for the kick-off"

 

God preserve us....