Trump to Iran's Rouhani: Better be careful

[craigt3365]

43 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

As compared to our allies the Saudis and the various members of the UAE, it certainly is.

I don't think they even pretend to be a democracy, do they?

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I don't think they even pretend to be a democracy, do they?

And we pretend that they are not the chief threat to the Middle East.

[SheungWan]

54 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

As compared to our allies the Saudis and the various members of the UAE, it certainly is.

 

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

I don't think they even pretend to be a democracy, do they?

 

Amnesty International report on Iran 2017:

'Iran's prolific use of corporal punishment, including flogging, amputation and blinding, throughout 2016 highlights the inhumanity of a justice system that legalizes brutality'

[craigt3365]

14 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And we pretend that they are not the chief threat to the Middle East.

I'm not so sure about that.  Relations between SA and the US have soured significantly recently.  Sadly, oil keeps the world from doing much against them.

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

 

Amnesty International report on Iran 2017:

'Iran's prolific use of corporal punishment, including flogging, amputation and blinding, throughout 2016 highlights the inhumanity of a justice system that legalizes brutality'

And still, compared to Saudi Arabia, it's a haven of human rights.

[SheungWan]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And still, compared to Saudi Arabia, it's a haven of human rights.

So here we have it, the end of the road for some of the left who finish their politics with the defence of a theocratic nasty regime under the slimy umbrella of relativism and claiming bogus human rights. To quote again Randa Habib (AI): 'Severing people’s limbs, taking away their eyesight and subjecting them to brutal lashings cannot be considered justice.'  Only a present or former party hack would try to defend this. And there are a few of them about.

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

So here we have it, the end of the road for some of the left who finish their politics with the defence of a theocratic nasty regime under the slimy umbrella of relativism and claiming bogus human rights. To quote again Randa Habib (AI): 'Severing people’s limbs, taking away their eyesight and subjecting them to brutal lashings cannot be considered justice.'  Only a present or former party hack would try to defend this. And there are a few of them about.

Again, compared to Saudi Arabia, Iran is a relative haven for roughly  50% of its population.

 

 And remember, that this thread is about Trump threatening Iran. According to the Trump administration, Iran is the #1 terrorist threat. Exactly how many Shia terrorist attacks have there been in the West?  

[SheungWan]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Again, compared to Saudi Arabia, Iran is a relative haven for roughly  50% of its population.

 

 And remember, that this thread is about Trump threatening Iran. According to the Trump administration, Iran is the #1 terrorist threat. Exactly how many Shia terrorist attacks have there been in the West?  

Gotta hang on to that relativism trope. Wanting to defend a Theocratic Dictatorship committed to torture as a totem of the left is a message for the rest of us to throw up.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Gotta hang on to that relativism trope. Wanting to defend a Theocratic Dictatorship committed to torture as a totem of the left is a message for the rest of us to throw up.

I don't see myself as defending Iran so much as exposing the hypocrisy of people who condemn it while letting far worse offenders off the hook on the grounds of political expediency.  Selective outrage, much?

The Trump Adminstration has declared that Iran is the #1 terrorist threat. This is obviously nonsense. 

[craigt3365]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I don't see myself as defending Iran so much as exposing the hypocrisy of people who condemn it while letting far worse offenders off the hook on the grounds of political expediency.  Selective outrage, much?

The Trump Adminstration has declared that Iran is the #1 terrorist threat. This is obviously nonsense. 

Just because we are critical of Iran, doesn't mean we are not also critical of SA and other countries in the ME.  But yes, saying Iran is the #1 terrorist threat might be a bit off.  If not #1, they are in the running for it.  I've read many good articles saying Iran is the #1 terrorist threat.

[avvocato]

On 2/11/2017 at 2:16 PM, Baerboxer said:

 

Elected - just not democratically. ...

The same could be said for Trump. Had 3 million less votes than the "loser".

"Democracy: government by the people; especially :  rule of the majority". __Mirriam Webster

[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, avvocato said:

The same could be said for Trump. Had 3 million less votes than the "loser".

"Democracy: government by the people; especially :  rule of the majority". __Mirriam Webster

Trump was democratically elected.  The 3 million votes are not the issue.  It's just the way the electoral college was setup.  Don't read too much into that. 

[hyperHowie]

On 2/11/2017 at 1:51 AM, spidermike007 said:

I am trying to keep an open mind about this guy. I was hoping he might have some constructive proposals for the economy. But, he is so bogged down with his immigration extremism, and refuses to acknowledge that extreme vetting has been in place since 9/11. All of the people who got visas and green cards in the past decade were extremely vetted. So, there was no risk in letting them in. He could have established the program, allowed all existing visa and green card holders in, but denied any new applicants, and few would have complained.

 

The fascinating thing about the megalomaniac, is that he seems to enjoy digging his own holes. He started a war with the media. He created this extreme immigration program, etc. He seems to love a battle. Hope he does not start a major war. Lord Bannon seems to be itching for a war with Iran. I think they would find Iran to be a far worse foe than Iraq, as they have very deep pockets, and it could very well turn into a 40 year war, costing the treasury tens of trillions of dollars, and possibly even bankrupting the United States, leading to major terror attacks on US soil, and destabilizing the planet. My guess is that it would lead to his impeachment. But, I see that coming anyway. I seriously doubt, especially after this ridiculous Nordstrom scandal, that this man will last four years. He will either be impeached, resign, or have an aneurysm. 

 

As far as the immigration debate goes at least half of the judges that are ruling against Trump, were appointed by Republicans. He is continuing with his Orwellian Alternative facts campaign. Anytime he does not like what happens, or a decision that is made, or a news account, or anything else, it instantly becomes alternative facts. He simply cannot fathom the possibility that it is happening for a good or logical reason. It is an attack against him personally, if it is not in lock step with his wishes. He truly has the mindset of an adolescent, who has always gotten his way. He is ill equipped for his present position, and is not a good give and take sort. Not sure how he is going to be able to negotiate with our allies, much less our enemies, with this attitude of entitlement and his inability to ever express any humility. 

 

On 2/11/2017 at 1:51 AM, spidermike007 said:

 

I'm an American and am embarrassed by this INSECURE, EGOMANIAC with low self-esteem, I'm praying you Brits do NOT welcome him into your country. I pray for a heart attack or stroke. He's not Pres.Trump to me: He's "Hair spray Donnie" to me: more concerned about his image than diplomacy & with so much "gold" in his interior decorating it looks like a whore house. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by hyperHowie
Typos. Forgot a point

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, hyperHowie said:

 

I'm an American and am embarrassed by this INSECURE, EGOMANIAC with low self-esteem, I'm praying you Brits do NOT welcome him into your country. I pray for a heart attack or stroke. He's not Pres.Trump to me: He's "Hair spray Donnie" to me: more concerned about his image than diplomacy & with so much "gold" in his interior decorating it looks like a whore house. 

 

No doubt, he is a man with very low self esteem, that comes from ripping off thousands of people he has done deals with over the decades. I met a few first hand, while living in NY during the 1980's and early 90's. I was in commercial real estate at the time. A few said that when they walked away from the closing table, they felt like they had just served 8 years in a federal penitentiary, and been taken advantage of by every single inmate. It is his style, completely devoid of class, substance, elegance, truth, integrity, ethics, respect, generosity, a sense of fair play, or empathy. He is a shell of a man, who preys on others for a living, and has done very well at it. He is also more than likely the most talented actor and charlatan we have ever been exposed to. It is just a matter of time before his supporters, and the GOP tire of him, and his antics, and his extreme policies, and realize he was woefully unqualified for this job. 

 

I am not a Brit. Kind of wish I was at this point. I am a fellow American, and am quite embarrassed too, and I do not embarrass easily! Glad I am living overseas at this point in time. I have alot of Hispanic friends, who are some of the most honest and hard working people I know. They contribute greatly to the American economy. Most are legal. A few are not. But, those that are not are paying taxes, and paying alot into the system, and getting very little back. 

 

Do not fret. The chances of him lasting the full four years is getting lower by the day. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by spidermike007

[dutchisaan]

On 11 februari 2017 at 0:52 PM, ilostmypassword said:

Except, of course, that he's not a dictator. He was elected.

That only means he is a elected dictator!

[billd766]

6 hours ago, stander said:

Iran President Hassan Rouhani forgets he's not bitch-slapping Obama! "anyone who speaks to Iranians with threats, will regret it."
Trump hits back with an ominous, "Better be careful!" Let's Rouhani imagine the subtext.

 

And what do YOU think Trump should do?

 

Start a war in the Middle East? That should go down well.

[ilostmypassword]

5 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Just because we are critical of Iran, doesn't mean we are not also critical of SA and other countries in the ME.  But yes, saying Iran is the #1 terrorist threat might be a bit off.  If not #1, they are in the running for it.  I've read many good articles saying Iran is the #1 terrorist threat.

Usually the authors of those articles are ardent supporters of Israel.  Israel's problem with Iran is not really the threat of nuclear weapons - the Iranians aren't suicidal - but that fact that Iran supports the Hezbollah which has made it too costly for Israel to make incursions into Lebanon.

[avvocato]

On 2/13/2017 at 11:57 AM, craigt3365 said:

Trump was democratically elected.  The 3 million votes are not the issue.  It's just the way the electoral college was setup.  Don't read too much into that. 

My point exactly ... President Rouhani was therefore also democratically elected.

[Ulysses G.]

On 2/13/2017 at 1:55 AM, ilostmypassword said:

Usually the authors of those articles are ardent supporters of Israel.  Israel's problem with Iran is not really the threat of nuclear weapons - the Iranians aren't suicidal - but that fact that Iran supports the Hezbollah which has made it too costly for Israel to make incursions into Lebanon.

 

If you really think the Iranian government is not suicidal, you need to do some research on believers in the 12th Mahdi. That is even more concerning than the fact that Iran is the biggest state sponsor of Terrorism.

The government of Iran and also the Islamic State are adherents and they are more than willing to cause extreme violence and chaos in the world to bring him forth. That is just one reason that experts thought the Iran nuclear "deal" was such a mistake and why rogue nation Iran is such a danger.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/06/24/irans-ahmadinejad-says-the-u-s-is-out-to-get-the-hidden-imam-who-um-disappeared-in-the-10th-century/?utm_term=.ad2f756bf779

 

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/261559/end-world-muhammad-mahdi-coming-dr-majid-rafizadeh

Edited February 14, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.  

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

If you really think the Iranian government is not suicidal, you need to do some research on believers in the 12th Mahdi. That is even more concerning than the fact that Iran is the biggest state sponsor of Terrorism.

The government of Iran and also the Islamic State are adherents and they are more than willing to cause extreme violence and chaos in the world to bring him forth. That is just one reason that experts thought the Iran nuclear "deal" was such a mistake and why rogue nation Iran is such a danger.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/06/24/irans-ahmadinejad-says-the-u-s-is-out-to-get-the-hidden-imam-who-um-disappeared-in-the-10th-century/?utm_term=.ad2f756bf779

 

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/261559/end-world-muhammad-mahdi-coming-dr-majid-rafizadeh

No problem, the appearance of the Mahdi is predicated on the second coming of Jesus Christ, so never going to happen.

[Ulysses G.]

4 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No problem, the appearance of the Mahdi is predicated on the second coming of Jesus Christ, so never going to happen.

Let's hope so. Twelvers believe that Jesus will return as a radical Muslim!

[craigt3365]

9 hours ago, avvocato said:

My point exactly ... President Rouhani was therefore also democratically elected.

Not even close.  In the US, anybody can run for president.  And many do.  Look at the list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

 

As has been pointed out, this is not possible in Iran.  Thus, NOT democratic.

[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Not even close.  In the US, anybody can run for president.  And many do.  Look at the list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2016

 

As has been pointed out, this is not possible in Iran.  Thus, NOT democratic.

And in the USA many states have laws designed to suppress the votes of certain groups. Thus not democratic.

ANd in the USA the candidate who receives the majority or plurality vote doesn't automatically get the office. Thus not democratic.

Of course, such absolute statements are nonsense. Iran is less democratic than the USA but more democratic than virtually any other state in the Mideast except Turkey and Israel.

[craigt3365]

11 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And in the USA many states have laws designed to suppress the votes of certain groups. Thus not democratic.

ANd in the USA the candidate who receives the majority or plurality vote doesn't automatically get the office. Thus not democratic.

Of course, such absolute statements are nonsense. Iran is less democratic than the USA but more democratic than virtually any other state in the Mideast except Turkey and Israel.

What laws?  You'll need to provide a link for that one. 

 

You need to research the electoral college a bit more to understand it's function.  It's rare a president gets elected without a majority of the vote.  It does happen, but very rare.  So that has nothing to do with being undemocratic.

 

What has this got to do with Turkey?

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

What laws?  You'll need to provide a link for that one. 

 

You need to research the electoral college a bit more to understand it's function.  It's rare a president gets elected without a majority of the vote.  It does happen, but very rare.  So that has nothing to do with being undemocratic.

 

What has this got to do with Turkey?

What do you think voter ID laws are about given that virtually all experts and investigation have shown that in-person voter fraud is virtually nonexistent? They're designed to discourage certain groups of voters.

In a pure democracy the majority or plurality vote should prevail. In the USA it doesn't for Presidential elections, so to that degree it's not a democracy.

Most states in the Middle East except for Israel and Turkey and Lebanon (I forgot that one) aren't democratic at all. Iran has a degree of democracy. Certainly far more democratic than most mideast states.

 

[Ulysses G.]

23 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

What laws?  You'll need to provide a link for that one. 

 

He must be talking about voter ID laws which around 80% of Americans support - including 77% of minorities. Much ado about nothing.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx?utm_source=tagrss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=syndication

 

In Iran, Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei hand-picks everybody who runs for president and he is not elected himself. Moderates are rejected routinely. Liberal and leftist candidates are rejected categorically. That is not a democratic election.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

He must be talking about voter ID laws which around 80% of Americans support - including 77% of minorities. Much ado about nothing.

 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/194741/four-five-americans-support-voter-laws-early-voting.aspx?utm_source=tagrss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=syndication

In Texas for example, to get a voter ID card you have to go to a motor vehicle office. But in 33 counties of Texas there are no motor vehicle offices. In addition because lots of the people who don't have voter ID are lower income, they can't afford to miss work. So it was proposed that the Motor Vehicle Bureaus stay open later some nights to allow these people to get the ID.  The Texas Legislature vetoed that idea.

[Ulysses G.]

5 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

In Texas for example, to get a voter ID card you have to go to a motor vehicle office.

As you well know, there plenty of alternatives. Not so in Iran.

 

If a voter does not possess an acceptable form of photo ID and the voter cannot obtain such ID due to a reasonable impediment, the voter may still cast a regular ballot by presenting a supporting form of ID and executing a Reasonable Impediment Declaration, noting the voter’s reasonable impediment to obtaining an acceptable form of photo ID, and stating that the voter is the same person as the person on the presented form of supporting form of ID.

Here is a list of supporting forms of ID:

• Valid voter registration certificate
• Certified birth certificate (must be an original)
• Copy of or original current utility bill
• Copy of or original bank statement
• Copy of or original government check
• Copy of or original paycheck
• Copy of or original government document with your name and an address (original required if it contains a photograph)
• http://www.votetexas.gov/register-to-vote/need-id/

Edited February 15, 2017 by Ulysses G.

[stevenl]

I think it is clear and proven time and time again that quite a few US states are trying to prevent groups not favorable to them from preventing to vote.

But can we get back to Iran please?

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