When should I do my TM30 thing at Jomtien?

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, wobalt said:

I am here since the 80s. However as long as all immigration interpretations in the different offices are not streamlined, you will never be 100 % legal regardless of upcoming changes
But do me favor - may I use your case as reference for my next presentation in this matter??

Yes of course but if you dealing with Jomtien then it's a simple case of them wanting it done. Just don't trust what they tell you downstairs that's all. They have proved to be wrong on a number of occasions and then deny what was told to you.The TM30 office is upstairs (Past desk Number 4 turn right up the stairs and straight ahead and they are people that will tell you exactly what is what.

[paul18620]

13 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

They look at the system anyway and see every entry and exit you have had here along with the last time a TM30 was reported. In that case, I am not sure what you put.

People shouldn't take your advice as its nonsense 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, paul18620 said:

People shouldn't take your advice as its nonsense 

Now I know you don't have a clue what your talking about if you really believe they cannot see and look at every entry and exit you have ever had! In that case, I won't be responding to you again 

[doctormann]

7 minutes ago, wobalt said:

I am here since the 80s. However as long as all immigration interpretations in the different offices are not streamlined, you will never be 100 % legal regardless of upcoming changes
But do me favor - may I use your case as reference for my next presentation in this matter??

 

OK by me.

 

I want to clarify something though.  LoveThailandelite seems to say that not abiding by the rules is OK 'Until you get caught' - but I don't think that he really meant to say that.

 

Getting 'caught' somehow implies that you are trying to circumvent the law.  I am absolutely not trying to do that - quite the opposite in fact.  I will abide by the regulations here - stupid as some of them are - unless they become so onerous as to make life here really difficult.  We are a long way from that situation but, if it gets too bad, I shall be off to pastures new.

 

[wobalt]

 
OK by me.
 
I want to clarify something though.  LoveThailandelite seems to say that not abiding by the rules is OK 'Until you get caught' - but I don't think that he really meant to say that.
 
Getting 'caught' somehow implies that you are trying to circumvent the law.  I am absolutely not trying to do that - quite the opposite in fact.  I will abide by the regulations here - stupid as some of them are - unless they become so onerous as to make life here really difficult.  We are a long way from that situation but, if it gets too bad, I shall be off to pastures new.
 

Thanks, I understand. There is more in it but it is out of scope to discuss it here.

[dentonian]

9 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

As I said, take it up with immigration. Of course, we all know you won't.

I think you should take it up with your Immigration why they fined you 4,000 baht.

 

Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht to 10,000 Baht.
 

It appears the IO made an error confusing the fine with that of not notifying a change of address.

 

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for each day which passes until the law is complied with

 

[dentonian]

8 hours ago, kalasiner said:

I recently moved from Khon Kaen to Kalasin, for which Sakon Nakhon Immi is responsible. They gave me the receipt for the TM30 but told me the TM28 is not necessary. To be safe I went with the TM28 to the local police station and they were not interested, saying the TM30 report slip was sufficient....and asking my wife why this stupid falang wants to report twice for one change of address. I fully expect one day to be fined for not handing in a TM28 !!

Coincidentally my 90 day report was due and I was happy to be able to combine this with the TM30/28 visit...but no, TIT. Because my extension was made in Khon Kaen I could only make the 90 day report at Khon Kaen, a 270 km round trip...a problem which could have been avoided IF the internet reporting was functioning.

LOS=Land Of Stupid (immigration rules).

 

You cannot do a 90 day report other than the office where you obtained your extension, unless you formally register a change address at a new office, where you can then do 90 day reports.

 

I last moved to a new province and Immigration office within 14 days of my due 90 day report.

I first filed a TM28 and TM30. As soon as they had entered all my details on their system, I did the 90 day report.

I've actually done that twice, although the first time it was my extension that was due to expire.

 

[thinkingman]

This T-M  30 And TM 28 discussion is idiotic.

 

As the alien I reported my address on the tm6 arrival card to a(n) (in)competent IO. I also own the condo, so I did it as the "housemaster".  the address has been reported. Since the "housemaster" should report the alien's presence, likely it should be done daily if you follow this thread. 

 

Just looks like extortion.

 

Catch 22!

[paul18620]

1 hour ago, dentonian said:

You cannot do a 90 day report other than the office where you obtained your extension, unless you formally register a change address at a new office, where you can then do 90 day reports.

 

I last moved to a new province and Immigration office within 14 days of my due 90 day report.

I first filed a TM28 and TM30. As soon as they had entered all my details on their system, I did the 90 day report.

I've actually done that twice, although the first time it was my extension that was due to expire.

 

Oh my goodness Lovethailandelite  

This person has actually filed a TM28 AND TM30 at the same time and the kicker is he has done it 2 TIMES and never received any fine like you have stated before 

So again I will say what you tell other board members on here Is NONSENSE 

 

And please don't respond as I know you GO HOK !!!

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, dentonian said:

I think you should take it up with your Immigration why they fined you 4,000 baht.

 

Section 77 : Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38, shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht. If said person is a hotel manager, he shall be punished with a fine from 2,000 Baht to 10,000 Baht.
 

It appears the IO made an error confusing the fine with that of not notifying a change of address.

 

Section 76 : Any alien, alien, who fails to comply with the provisions of Section 37(2),(3),(4)or(5) shall be punished with a fine not exceeding 5,000 Baht and with and additional fine not exceeding 200 Baht for each day which passes until the law is complied with

 

 I have nothing to take up. I have gone through this a dozen or more times. How many times do I have to say it's nothing to do with a TM28?
I really cannot be bothered going through it again here. Is it any wonder very little information is posted on these boards with the same people 'Assuming' I give up.

[AbeSurd]

Well, as the OP, I remain very confused.

As I understand it the TM30 is a form that your landlord/houseowner has to fill out.

Let's ignore for a moment the issue of traveling around within Thailand. So, as a long stayer, within 24 hours of returning to Thailand, every single time, YOU have to get your landlord/houseowner to fill out the form and then YOU have to get it to Immigration? Within 24 hours? Otherwise YOU will be fined?

I know TIT but, if true, this is really really over-the-top TIT.

[dentonian]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

 I have nothing to take up. I have gone through this a dozen or more times. How many times do I have to say it's nothing to do with a TM28?
I really cannot be bothered going through it again here. Is it any wonder very little information is posted on these boards with the same people 'Assuming' I give up.

I don't doubt your word you were fined for not filing a TM30.

 

My question, is that the Act specifically states a maximum fine of 2,000 baht for a private residence.

Why, armed with that knowledge, are you not going to take your receipt back to Immigration and question the amount of your fine.

The IO could have made a genuine mistake between the fines for TM30 and TM28.

 

It certainly wouldn't be a first!

[dentonian]

4 minutes ago, AbeSurd said:

Well, as the OP, I remain very confused.

As I understand it the TM30 is a form that your landlord/houseowner has to fill out.

Let's ignore for a moment the issue of traveling around within Thailand. So, as a long stayer, within 24 hours of returning to Thailand, every single time, YOU have to get your landlord/houseowner to fill out the form and then YOU have to get it to Immigration? Within 24 hours? Otherwise YOU will be fined?

I know TIT but, if true, this is really really over-the-top TIT.

Well you could make a stand and say it's the landlords responsibility, therefore his fine and refuse to pay.

 

The IO could well say that as the tenant and occupier, you are deemed the housemaster, therefore you pay

OR

The IO could say well until the landlord files a TM30, I refuse to do your report/extension/re-entry permit.

 

On the other hand you could just comply with what their asking for when you take up a new permanent residence, or return from a trip to another Country and again take up residence in Thailand. No hassle, no fine and no arguments.

[dentonian]

1 hour ago, thinkingman said:

This T-M  30 And TM 28 discussion is idiotic.

 

As the alien I reported my address on the tm6 arrival card to a(n) (in)competent IO. I also own the condo, so I did it as the "housemaster".  the address has been reported. Since the "housemaster" should report the alien's presence, likely it should be done daily if you follow this thread. 

 

Just looks like extortion.

 

Catch 22!

If you notified your address on the TM6 as the alien....job done!

Also as the owner of the premises you should have filed a TM30.

 

If you never change address or leave the Country, nothing more to do.

If you leave and re-entry check if your Immigration office requires you to file another TM30.

Some do, some don't.

[AbeSurd]

30 minutes ago, dentonian said:

On the other hand you could just comply with what their asking for when you take up a new permanent residence, or return from a trip to another Country and again take up residence in Thailand. No hassle, no fine and no arguments.

 

Within 24 hours, jet-lagged after a long-haul flight, I have to seek out my landlord and get him to fill out a form and then I have to get the form to Immigration?

I consider that a major hassle.

[dentonian]

1 minute ago, AbeSurd said:

 

Within 24 hours, jet-lagged after a long-haul flight, I have to seek out my landlord and get him to fill out a form and then I have to get the form to Immigration?

I consider that a major hassle.

I never seek out my landlord, I file it myself as the tenant.

 

Yep, weary, jet lagged, hungry, thirsty.

So I leave it for a few days until it's convenient for me, then put yesterdays date on the form the day I file.

If they ever asked about the days in-between, I'd just say I stayed at a hotel for a few days, but they never query it anyway.

[AbeSurd]

10 hours ago, dentonian said:

I never seek out my landlord, I file it myself as the tenant.

 

Yep, weary, jet lagged, hungry, thirsty.

So I leave it for a few days until it's convenient for me, then put yesterdays date on the form the day I file.

If they ever asked about the days in-between, I'd just say I stayed at a hotel for a few days, but they never query it anyway.

Thanks, but I'm still confused.

If you're 'the tenant' do you sign the TM30 form in your role as house-master, owner or possessor of the residence?

I rent, so as far as the form goes I reckon I'm just the alien and therefore not authorised to sign it.

I think I read elsewhere the form is supposed to be accompanied by a photocopy of the house-master/owner's ID. So do you also include a photocopy of your passport?

[mngmn]

A few conclusions after reading this thread.

 

1.The rules, as always, seem to depend on individual immigration officers and how they feel on a particular day. (Suspect also how much they get wound up by individuals.)

 

2. In other words everyone has a fairly random experience.  So absolutely no point basing factual arguments on a random experience.

 

3. I am none the wiser about TM28 or TM30 :)

Edited February 20, 2017 by mngmn

[dentonian]

12 minutes ago, AbeSurd said:

Thanks, but I'm still confused.

If you're 'the tenant' do you sign the TM30 form in your role as house-master, owner or possessor of the residence?

I rent, so as far as the form goes I reckon I'm just the alien and therefore not authorised to sign it.

I think I read elsewhere the form is supposed to be accompanied by a photocopy of the house-master/owner's ID. So do you also include a photocopy of your passport?

Yes, I sign in my name as the tenant.

I always submit signed copies of the landlords TB and ID card.

I scanned the original signed copies of the landlords documents and print out whenever required.

[wobalt]

Thanks, but I'm still confused.
If you're 'the tenant' do you sign the TM30 form in your role as house-master, owner or possessor of the residence?
I rent, so as far as the form goes I reckon I'm just the alien and therefore not authorised to sign it.
I think I read elsewhere the form is supposed to be accompanied by a photocopy of the house-master/owner's ID. So do you also include a photocopy of your passport?

I personally believe that you will be just fine with the TM6 arrival card. Especially as from this year on, the airlines are informing passenger at arrival that you have to put a valid address in this card. There is still no information at airport immigration that a TM30 is demanded within xx hours from whoever when your residence is not different from your previous stay.
As there is nothing streamlined between the immigration offices it looks like a pilot to me, considering past approaches from 90 days report, questionnaires, tracking sims etc.

[dentonian]

39 minutes ago, mngmn said:

A few conclusions after reading this thread.

 

1.The rules, as always, seem to depend on individual immigration officers and how they feel on a particular day. (Suspect also how much they get wound up by individuals.)

 

2. In other words everyone has a fairly random experience.  So absolutely no point basing factual arguments on a random experience.

 

3. I am none the wiser about TM28 or TM30 :)

 

13 minutes ago, wobalt said:

I personally believe that you will be just fine with the TM6 arrival card. Especially as from this year on, the airlines are informing passenger at arrival that you have to put a valid address in this card. There is still no information at airport immigration that a TM30 is demanded within xx hours from whoever when your residence is not different from your previous stay.
As there is nothing streamlined between the immigration offices it looks like a pilot to me, considering past approaches from 90 days report, questionnaires, tracking sims etc.

Have either of you actually ever read Thailand's Immigration laws, that is the law to which you are expected to abide by while staying in the Country?

Sections 37 and 38 detail the conditions of address reporting.

37. The responsibility of the foreigner using a TM28 to notify a change of address when different from the address you advised on your TM6.

38. The responsibility of the 'housemaster' using a TM30, the definition of which can be found under section 4.

 

It's a plot alright, one they hatched in 1979 but never enforced until recently.

 

Thai Immigration Act 2522en-immigration.pdf

[wobalt]

Have either of you actually ever read Thailand's Immigration laws, that is the law to which you are expected to abide by while staying in the Country?
Sections 37 and 38 detail the conditions of address reporting.
37. The responsibility of the foreigner using a TM28 to notify a change of address when different from the address you advised on your TM6.
38. The responsibility of the 'housemaster' using a TM30, the definition of which can be found under section 4.
 
It's a plot alright, one they hatched in 1979 but never enforced until recently.
 
Thai Immigration Act 2522en-immigration.pdf

Do you know the history and the background why these sections have been incorporated in the immigration act in 1979? I guess not.
These sections have been never reviewed, updated or revoked because this is not common in Thailand. If you have ever worked for the public or private sector you would understand

[dentonian]

6 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Do you know the history and the background why these sections have been incorporated in the immigration act in 1979? I guess not.
These sections have been never reviewed, updated or revoked because this is not common in Thailand. If you have ever worked for the public or private sector you would understand

1. I'd guess something to do with when US troops were based in Thailand.

I know the US wrote the software that was used until 2013 for Immigrations entry/exit database.

2. Agreed and the current confusion comes about because Immigration have only just started to enforce some parts of a 38 year old law.

Edited February 20, 2017 by dentonian

[wobalt]

1. I'd guess something to do with when US troops were based in Thailand.
I know the US wrote the software that was used until 2013 for Immigrations entry/exit database.
2. Agreed and the current confusion comes about because Immigration have only just started to enforce some parts of a 38 year old law.

To 1.) Before this time there was a lot of communistic uprising in Thailand with many no-go areas like i.e. Phetchabun, so it was of interest to protect visitors

[siam2007]

On 19/02/2017 at 10:52 AM, paul18620 said:

There is no need to take it up with immigration as what you have said is nonsense.

 

BS! Things have changed completely. Time for you to wake up to the reality of year 2017.

[kalasiner]

17 hours ago, dentonian said:

You cannot do a 90 day report other than the office where you obtained your extension, unless you formally register a change address at a new office, where you can then do 90 day reports.

 

I last moved to a new province and Immigration office within 14 days of my due 90 day report.

I first filed a TM28 and TM30. As soon as they had entered all my details on their system, I did the 90 day report.

I've actually done that twice, although the first time it was my extension that was due to expire.

Interesting that you were twice able to achieve what I was expecting to do at Sakon Nakon Immi. My experience was different because

a)  they did not take my TM28 saying the TM30 my wife had just given them made it unnecessary.

No 90 day report possible in SN because the extension was from Khon Kaen. Although I had just "formally" registered my new address with them.

 

By the way, the next day at Khon Kaen for the 90 day report I asked which address I should give...."this is KK, your KK address of course". So I gave my address in KK in spite of the fact, as pointed out to them, I had the day before formally changed my address from KK to Kalasin. Amazing Thailand, indeed,

[mngmn]

4 hours ago, dentonian said:

 

Have either of you actually ever read Thailand's Immigration laws, that is the law to which you are expected to abide by while staying in the Country?

Sections 37 and 38 detail the conditions of address reporting.

37. The responsibility of the foreigner using a TM28 to notify a change of address when different from the address you advised on your TM6.

38. The responsibility of the 'housemaster' using a TM30, the definition of which can be found under section 4.

 

It's a plot alright, one they hatched in 1979 but never enforced until recently.

 

Thai Immigration Act 2522en-immigration.pdf

Seriously? I need to obtain and read the immigration law of every country I visit?

 

Counties wIth draconian laws usually make sure everyone is aware of them. For example, there is an announcement on every flight into Singapore that dug trafficking attracts the death penalty.

 

If it is correct that every visitor to Thailsnd needs to register with immigration, then there should be an announcement saying so on every flight into Thailand.

 

I stand by my comment that people are encountering "opportunistic" immigration officers who are using an out of date law to get a little tea money.

 

Be careful next time you are in the UK, It is still an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down!

[AbeSurd]

4 hours ago, mngmn said:

Seriously? I need to obtain and read the immigration law of every country I visit?

 

Counties wIth draconian laws usually make sure everyone is aware of them. For example, there is an announcement on every flight into Singapore that dug trafficking attracts the death penalty.

 

If it is correct that every visitor to Thailsnd needs to register with immigration, then there should be an announcement saying so on every flight into Thailand.

 

I stand by my comment that people are encountering "opportunistic" immigration officers who are using an out of date law to get a little tea money.

 

Be careful next time you are in the UK, It is still an act of treason to place a postage stamp bearing the British monarch upside-down!

 

On the one hand I agree with you. Personally, I try hard to play it by the book with Thai Immigration, and 8 years of experience of Jomtien Immigration have led me to expect a benign response from them in return. I've never had any problems. On the basis of that benign experience, if the TM30 business is indeed in force in the way that some on this thread are persuasively claiming, then when I flew into Suvarnabhumi at the end of last year I'd have expected the typically helpful Immigration officer there to either have warned me verbally to go to local Immigration as soon as I got back to Pattaya - or to have slipped a piece of paper into my passport warning me of the same. Or at least an announcement on the plane as you suggest.

 

On the other hand, we have to acknowledge the presence of military rule in Thailand at the moment, and that things are changing here. And when you say "people are encountering 'opportunistic' immigration officers who are using an out of date law to get a little tea money" I think that fails to acknowledge the fact that, as I understand it, there is no tea money when foreigners play by these TM30 rules correctly. As I understand it there is no fee for registering your TM30 with Immigration - only a fine if you are late. If so, in the long run, perhaps mostly all there is for Immigration in this TM30 business is more work.

 

So I'm still confused.

 

PS: Thanks for the warning about UK postage stamps. Next time I'll be much more careful when I'm licking.

[tgeezer]

Very entertaining topic. Has anybody wondered why when a driving licence is required nobody in officialdom knows one's address?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[thinkingman]

OK, went to Jomtien Immigration to get address cert for driver's license.

 

There is a sign behind counter 9 that (maybe) explains reporting. I was not able to snap a picture of it, but it says that the reporting applies to those staying in Thailand longer than 90 days. Something like first notification with TM7 then must report each 90 days (on TM30?).

 

So all those on visa exempt, tourist, 90 day non-O don't have to worry about TM30, at least until they put up a new sign.