Israeli soldier gets 18 months' jail for killing wounded Palestinian attacker

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, Galactus said:

 

whatever the facts are:

-  Israel invaded Palestinians land and still invading and stealing land from palestinians.

-  Israeli people still select old timer fascist politicians reflecting that they dont actually want peace or two state solution.

-  Israel never wants peace and froze this process until it gets all palestinian lands. Once they get all, sure next day, Israel will want peace maybe?

-  Many killed in the hands of jews as well.

-  There is clear breach of law and human rights in Israel.

 

 

Of course jews are oppressed throughout human history unfortunately which is sad. but time has changed. they dont need to be this paranoid.

Israelis need to select new and young politicians that can work with an open mind and one that is not working for cheap settlers to steal some more land. some fair people are needed.

 

 

 

Israel never invaded the imaginary Palestinian state. Both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were illegally held or annexed by Egypt and Jordan. There was no Palestinian state which was invaded.

 

Both side, Israelis and Palestinians, are headed by leaders which are reluctant to make peace, or are unable to muster the required public support to do so. Somehow no mention of this is made with regard to the Palestinian side, nor is it taken as a faux indication of what the Palestinians actually wish for.

 

Israel did not "freeze" the peace process. The last round of talks ended after the Palestinians reneged on negotiation guidelines. If Israel "never" wanted peace, it could have skipped the setting up of the Palestinian Authority and related agreements. Obviously, no mention is made of Palestinian rejectionism and intransigence.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, Galactus said:

again, it is Israel demonizing itself. what we do is just stating the simple facts.

if simple facts are making Israel a demon, so just be it!

 

these are bigot muslim countries with no respect for human rights or anything. so they are never a part of the equation. i was mentioning for the developed countries you mentioned.

but at least, they dont go steal someone other country's land and build some houses and kill the inhabitants. 

 

sure Israel is not a bastion of democracy but one of the rare at least a bit democrat countries in that region.

as Palestinians will never be out of the skirt of their religion, i expect more from Israel than Palestinians to do something there!

hope i am not asking too much.

 

JT's reference was to "Jew hating bleeds into Israel demonization", and that what the comment it was. There is a difference between passing criticism over the Israeli government's policies and engaging in this sort of rhetoric.

 

These neighboring Muslim countries were mentioned in the linked quote, and you carelessly bundled them together with other countries. Now, they"were never part of the equation". That's pretty much the same inconsistency often displayed on these topics -   comparisons between Israel and neighboring countries are only acceptable when these reflect negatively on the former.

 

To get this straight - Palestinians are given standing allowances due to their religious affiliations? Wonder how that will go down with some of the auto "like" clickers.

[Galactus]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Israel never invaded the imaginary Palestinian state. Both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip were illegally held or annexed by Egypt and Jordan. There was no Palestinian state which was invaded.

 

Both side, Israelis and Palestinians, are headed by leaders which are reluctant to make peace, or are unable to muster the required public support to do so. Somehow no mention of this is made with regard to the Palestinian side, nor is it taken as a faux indication of what the Palestinians actually wish for.

 

Israel did not "freeze" the peace process. The last round of talks ended after the Palestinians reneged on negotiation guidelines. If Israel "never" wanted peace, it could have skipped the setting up of the Palestinian Authority and related agreements. Obviously, no mention is made of Palestinian rejectionism and intransigence.

Again, land belong to some Palestinians and still houses are built on them illegally against all international laws.

and while you steal and build house on someone elses land, do you expect them to be peaceful?

dont expect anything from Palestinians. This is something clearly only Israel can handle, with understanding and peace.

not by building some illegal houses on some stolen land or not by oppression.

 

58 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

JT's reference was to "Jew hating bleeds into Israel demonization", and that what the comment it was. There is a difference between passing criticism over the Israeli government's policies and engaging in this sort of rhetoric.

 

These neighboring Muslim countries were mentioned in the linked quote, and you carelessly bundled them together with other countries. Now, they"were never part of the equation". That's pretty much the same inconsistency often displayed on these topics -   comparisons between Israel and neighboring countries are only acceptable when these reflect negatively on the former.

 

To get this straight - Palestinians are given standing allowances due to their religious affiliations? Wonder how that will go down with some of the auto "like" clickers.

 

for one, i dont hate Israelis. have lots of Israelis good friends.

i hate those bigot politicians from both sides and those fascists, from both sides yes.

Palestinian leadership? is there any? you expect too much from palestinians.

Israel instead of expecting something, a leader, democracy etc from Palestinian side, they should do something.

Edited March 8, 2017 by Galactus

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, Galactus said:

Again, land belong to some Palestinians and still houses are built on them illegally against all international laws.

and while you steal and build house on someone elses land, do you expect them to be peaceful?

dont expect anything from Palestinians. This is something clearly only Israel can handle, with understanding and peace.

not by building some illegal houses on some stolen land or not by oppression.

 

 

for one, i dont hate Israelis. have lots of Israelis good friends.

i hate those bigot politicians from both sides and those fascists, from both sides yes.

Palestinian leadership? is there any? you expect too much from palestinians.

Israel instead of expecting something, a leader, democracy etc from Palestinian side, they should do something.

 

I'm not one of those supporting the Israeli government's policies in the West Bank, or the illegal settlement effort. I do note, that you change the claim made every now and then. So once more - Israel did not invade any "Palestine". These are two distinct claims, one having merit and one does not.

 

The Palestinian rejectionism and intransigence goes to way back before the illegal settlements ever became an issue. They could have opted for peace before things came to where they are now. It's one of them choices that they need to accept responsibility for.  Giving a free pass for any Palestinian violence is not a viable position, and the same goes for making Israel the sole party of what is a two-sided conflict.

 

As I'm not suffering memory loss, I can recall hateful posts you made about Israelis and Jews, across multiple topics. On the other hand, not much by direct negative reference to any Palestinians or Palestinian politicians. Denying that there are even Palestinian leaders is bizarre, to say the least. If the Palestinians do not have a leadership, who is Israel supposed to deal with, then? There is no reasonable way to bring about conflict resolution by one-sided actions.

[Galactus]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I'm not one of those supporting the Israeli government's policies in the West Bank, or the illegal settlement effort. I do note, that you change the claim made every now and then. So once more - Israel did not invade any "Palestine". These are two distinct claims, one having merit and one does not.

 

The Palestinian rejectionism and intransigence goes to way back before the illegal settlements ever became an issue. They could have opted for peace before things came to where they are now. It's one of them choices that they need to accept responsibility for.  Giving a free pass for any Palestinian violence is not a viable position, and the same goes for making Israel the sole party of what is a two-sided conflict.

 

As I'm not suffering memory loss, I can recall hateful posts you made about Israelis and Jews, across multiple topics. On the other hand, not much by direct negative reference to any Palestinians or Palestinian politicians. Denying that there are even Palestinian leaders is bizarre, to say the least. If the Palestinians do not have a leadership, who is Israel supposed to deal with, then? There is no reasonable way to bring about conflict resolution by one-sided actions.

yes there is. if Israel stops stealing land and building illegal homes on them and handing them to their owners or if they stop electing fascist old fart politicians filled with hatred and brainwashing sessions of the past, i believe they can reach a middle point. these are what israel can do as one sided actions and believe me sure rest follows fast.

i dont hate all Israelis lets say:) i hate the fascist ones:) but then i hate all fascists around the world, what ever they are wherever they are or whatever religion they believe. it does not matter.

like Bibi like the IDf soldier murdered someone unarmed laying on the ground or like fascist Erdogan, Turkish leader etc etc.

it is clear that Palestinian side has leadership problem so Israel needs to get the reins in a peaceful and fair manner and needs to end this s.it!

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Galactus said:

yes there is. if Israel stops stealing land and building illegal homes on them and handing them to their owners or if they stop electing fascist old fart politicians filled with hatred and brainwashing sessions of the past, i believe they can reach a middle point. these are what israel can do as one sided actions and believe me sure rest follows fast.

i dont hate all Israelis lets say:) i hate the fascist ones:) but then i hate all fascists around the world, what ever they are wherever they are or whatever religion they believe. it does not matter.

like Bibi like the IDf soldier murdered someone unarmed laying on the ground or like fascist Erdogan, Turkish leader etc etc.

it is clear that Palestinian side has leadership problem so Israel needs to get the reins in a peaceful and fair manner and needs to end this s.it!

 

What you claim to believe has nothing to do with facts. Palestinian rejectionism goes way back before the Israeli illegal settlement effort became an issue. They could have cut an infinitely better deal had they not embraced this path. They could have had a way better deal even not that many years ago. A different choice was taken.

 

Basically, what you postulate is that if Israel accept all Palestinian demands, and the Israeli public will elect a leadership favorable to the Palestinians, then reaching a "middle point" will be possible. Nothing whatsoever to do with the Palestinians, then. As a reminder, Israel chose to unilaterally disengage from the Gaza Strip. Didn't work out all that well. And no, there is no real reason to trust any of your "believe me" nonsense.

 

Spare me the lies. You have posted, in the past, rather clear views about Israelis and Jews. Nothing to do with the self proclaimed hatred for fascists. You routinely make allowances for the Palestinians based on dodgy criteria.

 

If the Palestinian have a leadership problem, shouldn't they sort this out? Why is this issue Israel's responsibility as well? The only Middle East peace agreements which seem to hold involve relatively stable leaderships. What is the wisdom of trying to deal with a fragmented people and expecting a positive outcome?

 

[AGLV0121]

6 hours ago, Galactus said:

they dont need to be this paranoid

 

Oh really? What about 1967 where all Arab armies were at the borders of Israel?

I explained Azaria's actions and the reaction if the Israeli society to be informative, not to have people show teeth as usual.

The west  bank of the Jordan river was seized as a counter attack after Jordan started bombing Israel - as they believed Nasser's reports of victory on the Jews; it was not a  simple land theft as when the US seized southern states during the Mexican war (get info about how it started)

You accepted the narrative that it's "Palestinian land". Many of the houses in what you call Jerusalem "East" belonged to Jews before 1948. And the San Remo conference stated that the Jewish state stretches from the Mediterranea to the Jordan river. It's Jordan who invaded Israel in 1948, remember. There were 141,000 Arabs. The rest came when the Jews came because Jews offered jobs.

 

And you see, all these people including you who dissect any single action of what Israel does as if Israel were a little child to whom you say "oh, what you do is not this, is not ethical, is not that, slap on the face, proves there are many enemies, Israel is always under attack so what!

What I individually think about this or what the Israeli society thinks about this is their business. There are many people dissecting the numerous black people shot at point blank range by police officers, and not eve threatened, that is, the situation is the same here: Israel is always under scrutiny.

Yawn, tired of all this, whatever is said, Israel is wrong. So what? When you are perfect, judge!

I operated forums in the past, I know too well that subjects touching the Jews or Muslims fill in pages, increasing advertisement revenues. That's all what it is about.

[Jingthing]

Jews don't need to be paranoid? Made me laugh.

[AGLV0121]

16 hours ago, Morch said:

Repeating it won't make it true.

Have I ever hinted I believed that? How could you infer from my text?

I am saying that you don't know and sometimes your finger is faster on the trigger than the brain.

Any perception in these moments you must have lived so you can understand.

It's tense, you're full of adrenaline, your senses are different than in 'normal' state, your ability to assess a situation.

In those moments, some can, some not as quick.

 

It's so easy to judge from outside!

[Scott]

I VERY strongly suggest you get back on the topic and stay there.   Off-topic bickering is not permitted.   If you are finished with what you have to say about the topic, then please quit posting.   It's simple, really.  

[AGLV0121]

On 3/8/2017 at 0:05 AM, Morch said:

Azaria gave many conflicting explanations for his actions at different stages of investigation and trial.

 

Right. I don't [entirely] buy that either. But wait a minute: for one, his lawyers may have directed him to say so, but the following new research, which states that a decision is actually made several seconds before action, is of interest too:

 

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/yet-another-experiment-eroding-free-will/

 

http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/brain-scans-can-reveal-your-decisions-7-seconds-before-you-decide

Does it imply [rather 'brings one to think that] Azaria would have made an unconscious decision to shoot when he realized that the guy on the floor was moving? 

Edited March 9, 2017 by AGLV0121

[Morch]

On 3/9/2017 at 4:20 AM, AGLV0121 said:

Have I ever hinted I believed that? How could you infer from my text?

I am saying that you don't know and sometimes your finger is faster on the trigger than the brain.

Any perception in these moments you must have lived so you can understand.

It's tense, you're full of adrenaline, your senses are different than in 'normal' state, your ability to assess a situation.

In those moments, some can, some not as quick.

 

It's so easy to judge from outside!

 

On 3/9/2017 at 9:00 PM, AGLV0121 said:

 

Right. I don't [entirely] buy that either. But wait a minute: for one, his lawyers may have directed him to say so, but the following new research, which states that a decision is actually made several seconds before action, is of interest too:

 

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2013/03/25/yet-another-experiment-eroding-free-will/

 

http://exploringthemind.com/the-mind/brain-scans-can-reveal-your-decisions-7-seconds-before-you-decide

Does it imply [rather 'brings one to think that] Azaria would have made an unconscious decision to shoot when he realized that the guy on the floor was moving? 

 

Azaria wasn't in a combat situation. He arrived on the scene 11 minutes after the incident ended.

 

As for his conflicting versions, these were given during even during various pre-trial phases of the investigation by commanding officers. Whether later on he was following the advice of his defense team is irrelevant. There were various attempts to raise such issues as you did (pertaining to response etc.) - they were dismissed as well, and rightly so.

[CharlieK]

On 08/03/2017 at 2:43 PM, Galactus said:

for one, i dont hate Israelis. have lots of Israelis good friends.

i hate those bigot politicians from both sides and those fascists, from both sides yes.

Palestinian leadership? is there any? you expect too much from palestinians.

Israel instead of expecting something, a leader, democracy etc from Palestinian side, they should do something.

Having read your posts I find it hard to believe any jewish or Israeli persons would want to be friends with you. 

[AGLV0121]

6 hours ago, CharlieK said:

I find it hard to believe any jewish or Israeli persons would want to be friends with you

 

I wanted to say but have been flagged for same comment.

[AGLV0121]

7 hours ago, Morch said:

He arrived on the scene 11 minutes after

It's ugly.

Azaria arrived earlier but that changes nothing. Of course I saw the video, but - am making no excuses here - the fact all countries are dissecting Israel's every single action does not help establish a climate for reflection. And that brings us to the spiral of Intifadas, knife attacks and settlements and...