Social attitude question

[Stevemercer]

Even ignorant expats talk to Thais now and then. The Thais I have spoken to don't seem to take much of an interest in world affairs. However, most think the Muslims down south are trouble makers. Some of my Thai friends, who are more worldly, share similar opinions to westerners about militant Muslims.

 

Buddhism teaches tolerance to other religions and certainly would not comment about Muslim practices. God only knows what Muslims think about Buddhists and its adherents who do not believe in the one god, and who eat raw pork most days.

[Enoon]

 

2 hours ago, oby said:

In Canada last week in justifying a bill to criminalize *islamaphobia* it was definitely considered islam/Muslim a race.  Google Toronto star newspaper regarding the bill before parliament. 

Personally I think they have the definition  wrong.

 *islamaphobia* which affects millions  around the globe is a fear of being killed by a Muslim follower of islam

 

It's not a Bill it's a Motion.

 

And one would have to be an idiot to declare that Motion 103 is focused purely on Islam and seeks to define it as a race:

 

Motion 103 - Wikipedia

 

(Or a dissembler and a liar).

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2017 by Enoon

[does]

3 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Ignorance is bliss or so it seems.  But sometimes the blissful idiot has, uh "consequences" ?

SiSi, you may want to check the dictionary and find the definition of 'irony'.

[4MyEgo]

The way I see it, whether in Thailand or anywhere else for that matter in the world, most people don't like Muslims, and the reason they don't like Muslims is because they fear Muslims, after all their religion or what we have been told (fed as sheep) is its not acceptable in western world, this maybe so, but I haven't seen a single Muslim wheeling a sword to cut off anyone's head, here or back in Oz, what I did see on the news once that a group of Muslim protesters taking to the streets in protest of something and were shut down quick smart by the police.

 

I have met a lot of Muslims back in Oz, most educated, some so not, never had a problem with them, however the younger middle eastern ones with the small brain syndrome seem to like to their steroid aggression out on people when in a group, never in a one on one situation IMO.

 

A Muslim is a follower of (Islam), if they are Thai, then they are a Thai Muslim because they choose to follow their faith through Islam.

 

A Buddhist is a follower of  Buddhism, if they are Thai then they are a Thai Buddhist because they choose to follow their faith through Buddhism.

 

From my observations in Thailand, I see that the most Muslims seem to be more business orientated then the main stream Buddhists, this is only from my observation and I could be wrong, suffice to say both sides seem to tolerate each other, as we from the western world seem to tolerate Muslims.

 

Personally I think if the media stopped shoving extremists actions in our faces from the minority Jihadists and Isis we wouldn't really give a rats a$$ what they did in their own back yards, which they had been doing prior to the media shoving it under our noses, however from my own observations, western powers go into these countries and do what they have been doing, for the reasons they say they have been going there for, you know Hussein having weapons of mass destruction that were never found, and Nato voted against the US going in, Gaddafi about to change the currency to gold dinar, well you have to expect some retaliation, as brutal as it is, sure they will use whatever means they can to show the world there barbaric ways, whether its beheading people or whatever, I ask myself, would we be seeing this if the western powers didn't invade those countries, did those "dictators" have these Jihadists, Isis numb-nuts under control, would things be different if these past dictators who the US aligned itself with in the past, still have control over them, well taking them out certainly opened up the flood gates, just look at Syria and we have all been told of what and how bad Muslims are that follow the ideologies of Qur'an, hmmmmm.

 

To answer your question, yes racism is ripe and is always directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior, be it Islam, the flavor of the moment.

 

Being an atheist has never drawn me into any arena with anyone, each to their own I say, and if people are stupid enough to believe fairy-tail books that tells them that they will go straight to hell, then they deserve what they get, me on the other hand, will just keep doing what I am comfortable with, as long as I'm not hurting anyone.

 

[connda]

Just to clarify, "Muslim" is not a race, therefore ill-will toward Muslims or people of any other religion is not racism.  Perhaps people are simply reacting to the political and culture side of a specific religion.  For example, I know Buddhists who aren't too keen on Christians.  Doesn't make them racists.  And I know Buddhists who aren't keen on Muslims.  It simply means they don't like the baggage that comes with the dogma.
Anyway, why focus only on others reactions to Islam.  Try looking the other direction too.  How accepted are Christian, Buddhists, Hindus, etc within the sharia-base Islamic communities?  Not too tolerant!  Sorry Op. Look at both sides of the canvass before starting to paint a picture.

But from my own experience, the run of the mill Islamic communities such as in Chiang Mai? I don't see any problems from anywhere in the association of the Buddhist and Muslim and Christians in these communities.  They worship separately; the do business together.  It works fine.  As it should.  Well, except when people try to manufacture discord.  Get my point?

Edited February 27, 2017 by connda

[elliss]

On 2/26/2017 at 6:40 PM, allane said:

I don't know, but many years ago when teaching at a language school, an adult student told me that he was better than all the others because he was a Muslim.

  Same same ,  i am from, once known as Great  Britain , Muslim father , superior , by birth .

Rule Brittania ,  my arse . 555

Edited February 27, 2017 by elliss

[elliss]

2 hours ago, does said:

SiSi, you may want to check the dictionary and find the definition of 'irony'.

     Aka , ISIS .

[Grubster]

7 hours ago, sandgroper2 said:

How on gods earth are people on TV supposed to have an answer for that question. The things some people ask.

Because these things come up in conversation and we do live in Thailand don't we?

[Grubster]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Just to clarify, "Muslim" is not a race, therefore ill-will toward Muslims or people of any other religion is not racism.  Perhaps people are simply reacting to the political and culture side of a specific religion.  For example, I know Buddhists who aren't too keen on Christians.  Doesn't make them racists.  And I know Buddhists who aren't keen on Muslims.  It simply means they don't like the baggage that comes with the dogma.
Anyway, why focus only on others reactions to Islam.  Try looking the other direction too.  How accepted are Christian, Buddhists, Hindus, etc within the sharia-base Islamic communities?  Not too tolerant!  Sorry Op. Look at both sides of the canvass before starting to paint a picture.

But from my own experience, the run of the mill Islamic communities such as in Chiang Mai? I don't see any problems from anywhere in the association of the Buddhist and Muslim and Christians in these communities.  They worship separately; the do business together.  It works fine.  As it should.  Well, except when people try to manufacture discord.  Get my point?

Yes I get your point but when Thais read or see on the news about muslims killing school teachers because they are teaching girls they may get a sour taste for there kind. These stories are not manufactured.

[grollies]

7 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

 

Good to know  it is not rampant consumerism, globalization, global warming and chocking pollution, climate wars and mass migration to name just a few.

 

I wish my worldview was so simplified. Life would be so much easier.

"to name just a few".........

 

yep, but islam isn't helping is it? Just add it to your list.

 

Ignoring one problem in the face of another doesn't mean the other problem doesn't exist.

 

However the topic is about how the Thai view muslims not global warming.

 

I personally think that Thai nationalist identity is a good defence agsinst islamification unlike the cowering, supplicating politicians in the UK. Allowing Sharia councils is the first step on a very slippery slope.

 

IMHO.

Edited February 27, 2017 by grollies

[grollies]

"The road to the establishment of an Islamic Republic in the United States starts slowly and subtly with the loss of the will to win. The road to this unique hell on earth is paved with the best intentions from our major institutions. This political/accommodation/appeasement approach is not simply a function of any one individual’s actions but lies at the heart of our most important cultural and political institutions."

 

and...

 

"We’re at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict, of which if the people in this room, and people in the church, do not bind together and really form what I feel is an aspect of the church militant, to really be able to not just stand with our beliefs against but to fight for our beliefs this this new barbarity that’s starting, uh that we will literally eradicate everything we’ve been bequeathed over the last 2,000 and 2,500 years."

 

Steve Bannon - White House Chief Strategist.

 

Interesting times we live in.

 

[zaZa9]

4 hours ago, Goanna said:

The thai buddhists in the south can't be happy. How can you be, when your friends and family are randomly murdered by the followers of this evil cult. It appears that mainly the people who try to help them are killed. Nurses, teachers, police etc. Myanmar buddhist know how to deal with them.

It depends on how South one is speaking.

I live amongst  Thai Muslims ... on the  small main road to my house there are 4 ladyboys living - all muslims , and  1 the "daughter" of an Imam btw ...and fully accepted by the Thai community of which Sunni Muslims are the majority.

My landlord and neighbours are all Sunni Thai , and a more obliging bunch I couldnt come across.

Ok , its taken a while for the women folk to give me a ' 'waddy kah' " ( no wai )  but otherwise a pretty normal Thai existence...

So there is a Thainess , or Thai tolerance going on here.

 

My tg is also South Thai.

She is from near Samui , and says that since she is 'South' she gets along fine with them , as first and foremost ( according to her ) the language they use is ( almost ) the same . So to her , they register as being from the same 'country' and its my observation that living in the same  Part of Thailand , and speaking the same dialect , is what makes them feel  together , over and above just being "Thai".

 

However , if I ask her about Yala , or Pattani , she says , "Well they are NOT Thai are they?"

I only have to cast my mind back to 10 years ago and going down near the border to Chana to see road blocks and sand bags and to learn that the jungle her brother was clearing was not considered 'his' even though he'd paid for it .

And insurgents had shot up the local ( mainly muslim ) school and murdered the Or Bor Tor only a week before.

 

The towns around Songkla and NST are booming and I was unsure why until she stated ( and Im not sure of the facts of this ) , ''This is because all the Buddha people are selling up and moving north because the bad muslim Malay man is making them sa-cared so much  to move away!"

So this is pretty much my understanding of the situation.You all know about this part but ?

Yes , Colonial border drawing again...

 

This agreement has had a long-lasting effect on both Thailand and the Federation of Malaysia. The border between them was mainly drawn by this treaty. The incremental tide of discontent generated by the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909 may have, in part laid the foundations for the South Thailand insurgency in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat from the 1960s to the present. The agreement effectively divided the northern Malay states into two parts. The area around modern Pattani (Malay: ڤتنا (Patani)), Narathiwat (Malay: منارة (Menara)), southernmost Songkhla (Malay: سيڠڬورا (Singgora)), Satun (Malay: مقيم ستل (Mukim Setul)) and Yala (Malay: جال (Jala)) remained under Thai control, while Thailand relinquished its claims to sovereignty over Kedah (Thai: ไทรบุรี (Saiburi)), Kelantan (Thai: กลันตัน (Kalantan)), Perlis (Thai: ปะลิส (Palit)) and Terengganu (Thai: ตรังกานู (Trangkanu)) which integrated the British sphere of influence as protectorates. These four states, along with Johor, later became known as the Unfederated Malay

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Siamese_Treaty_of_1909

 

[grollies]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

The way I see it, whether in Thailand or anywhere else for that matter in the world, most people don't like Muslims, and the reason they don't like Muslims is because they fear Muslims, after all their religion or what we have been told (fed as sheep) is its not acceptable in western world, this maybe so, but I haven't seen a single Muslim wheeling a sword to cut off anyone's head, here or back in Oz, what I did see on the news once that a group of Muslim protesters taking to the streets in protest of something and were shut down quick smart by the police.

It is not fear of the individual muslim per se, rather the fear of an institution whise sole aim is global islam, with no alternative allowed. Doesn't matter if it's next year, century or millennium.

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I have met a lot of Muslims back in Oz, most educated, some so not, never had a problem with them, however the younger middle eastern ones with the small brain syndrome seem to like to their steroid aggression out on people when in a group, never in a one on one situation IMO.

You do not understand what is truely in their hearts. They simply won't admit it. You are kaffir, kaffir, an unbeliever. Read up on what the average muslim thinks of people like you.

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

A Muslim is a follower of (Islam), if they are Thai, then they are a Thai Muslim because they choose to follow their faith through Islam.

 

Wrong, they are Muslim first then Thai.

 

 

A Buddhist is a follower of  Buddhism, if they are Thai then they are a Thai Buddhist because they choose to follow their faith through Buddhism.

 

Correct.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

From my observations in Thailand, I see that the most Muslims seem to be more business orientated then the main stream Buddhists, this is only from my observation and I could be wrong, suffice to say both sides seem to tolerate each other, as we from the western world seem to tolerate Muslims.

 

Agreed, but this is how islam will spread through money and power.

 

Personally I think if the media stopped shoving extremists actions in our faces from the minority Jihadists and Isis we wouldn't really give a rats a$$ what they did in their own back yards,

 

....and in the UK, France, Syria, USA, Germany, Sweden.....

 

which they had been doing prior to the media shoving it under our noses, however from my own observations, western powers go into these countries and do what they have been doing, for the reasons they say they have been going there for, you know Hussein having weapons of mass destruction that were never found,

 

agreed

 

and Nato voted against the US going in, Gaddafi about to change the currency to gold dinar, well you have to expect some retaliation, as brutal as it is, sure they will use whatever means they can to show the world there barbaric ways, whether its beheading people or whatever, I ask myself, would we be seeing this if the western powers didn't invade those countries, did those "dictators" have these Jihadists, Isis numb-nuts under control, would things be different if these past dictators who the US aligned itself with in the past, still have control over them, well taking them out certainly opened up the flood gates,

 

totally agree

 

just look at Syria and we have all been told of what and how bad Muslims are that follow the ideologies of Qur'an, hmmmmm.

 

To answer your question, yes racism is ripe and is always directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior, be it Islam, the flavor of the moment.

 

Being an atheist has never drawn me into any arena with anyone, each to their own I say,

 

but, and here is wher your argument falls down. Christianity, Bhuddism, etc, etc, would allow you the right to this view. Islam wouldn't.

 

and if people are stupid enough to believe fairy-tail books that tells them that they will go straight to hell, then they deserve what they get, me on the other hand, will just keep doing what I am comfortable with, as long as I'm not hurting anyone.

 

Mate, you're so wrong.

 

 

[zaZa9]

But I'd also like to ad some personal observations as a follow on of post 49.

And that is that the 'muslim-ness' around us appears to be taking a harder line.

Friday prayers has always been designed to "move" the muslim populous to be more ..um ...active adherrants , and  since the speeches are loudly broad cast , my tg , and other neighbours who understand this brand of Thai , have given me some feedback while shaking their heads.

One that sticks out recently was something akin to "Brothers , every time you take even ONE BAHT from the non-believer , be he Chris ( christian)  or SHIA  , or Hindu , or Buddhist or  any other  Non Believer then Allah will weep  a tear!"

 

Of course , since everyone who is at all wealthy in this wealthy little town makes the vast majority of their money from non-muslim ( or even shia - allah forbid ! 555  ) tourists , Im wondering if they all were looking out the windows and silently whistleing like  a 'devout' Catholic was in the 50' when it was preached he was quite possibly a fornicator ...

 

Maybe its just like that here ... maybe they're told all that crap and they shrug , put their foreheads to the floor as they are expected to , and just soldier on...

Maybe they are all more radically conservative down there on the border because there is no tourism or ways to make good livings like north of Songklah , and the mullahs there will ensure Their power structure stays intact under  the pretense of keeping the lands 'free of the Infadel' ??

The thing I notice most in Islam is the fear of scrutiny ....

 

[shadowofacloud]

2 hours ago, grollies said:

"to name just a few".........

 

yep, but islam isn't helping is it? Just add it to your list.

 

Ignoring one problem in the face of another doesn't mean the other problem doesn't exist.

 

However the topic is about how the Thai view muslims not global warming.

 

I personally think that Thai nationalist identity is a good defence agsinst islamification unlike the cowering, supplicating politicians in the UK. Allowing Sharia councils is the first step on a very slippery slope.

 

IMHO.

Well, radical Islam certainly isn't helping. But this applies to anything radical - I may be a Buddhist, but would still be strongly opposed to radical Buddhism (whatever that may be).

 

However, there is a semantic rift between "isn't helping" and "the biggest threat to humanity worldwide" (both quotes from your posts).

 

And as I am willing to agree with the first statement when applied to radicalism, I am certainly against such sweeping and harmful generalizations as the second one.

 

As for the Sharia council in the UK - AFAIK it has been in operation for over 30 years now and the British way of life doesn't seem to be affected... And it whatever its rulings, they are not legally binding, so it is a part of religious folklore and multiculturalism present in most of Western Europe (which I, personally, enjoy and support).

Edited February 27, 2017 by shadowofacloud

[blazes]

When Saudi Arabia allows Christians to build churches or Buddhists to build temples, then, and only then, will relations between Islam and the civilized world begin to improve.

[shadowofacloud]

2 hours ago, grollies said:

"The road to the establishment of an Islamic Republic in the United States starts slowly and subtly with the loss of the will to win. The road to this unique hell on earth is paved with the best intentions from our major institutions. This political/accommodation/appeasement approach is not simply a function of any one individual’s actions but lies at the heart of our most important cultural and political institutions."

 

and...

 

"We’re at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict, of which if the people in this room, and people in the church, do not bind together and really form what I feel is an aspect of the church militant, to really be able to not just stand with our beliefs against but to fight for our beliefs this this new barbarity that’s starting, uh that we will literally eradicate everything we’ve been bequeathed over the last 2,000 and 2,500 years."

 

Steve Bannon - White House Chief Strategist.

 

Interesting times we live in.

 

Steve Bannon is a white supremacist and a racist fanatic. Really, hardly a source of balanced, objective and informed opinions on Islam. Or anything else for that matter.

[4MyEgo]

 

6 hours ago, grollies said:

It is not fear of the individual muslim per se, rather the fear of an institution whise sole aim is global islam, with no alternative allowed. Doesn't matter if it's next year, century or millennium.

I only believe that if the extremists (the few pests), got their ways, yes, but we are talking ants compared to the rest of the world, in other words they have Buckley's, most Muslims, have their religion (Islam) and go about doing their normal day to day activities, they don't go around beheading people whether its in their religion or not, surely you can see that.

 

7 hours ago, grollies said:

You do not understand what is truely in their hearts. They simply won't admit it. You are kaffir, kaffir, an unbeliever. Read up on what the average muslim thinks of people like you.

People are entitled to think what they want of people, they can think of me as a lessor and they as a superior, I have no problem with that, have a good long look at how Buddhist Thai's think of farangs, seriously.

 

7 hours ago, grollies said:

Agreed, but this is how islam will spread through money and power.

Your allowing paranoia to get the better of you, IMO 555

 

7 hours ago, grollies said:

....and in the UK, France, Syria, USA, Germany, Sweden.....

I have seen this, and this is a problem with the governments of these countries, they seem to allow these people to carry on with their extremist ways, maybe the reason is so that they don't inflame the situation, like I said, back in Oz, there was a protest with flags of Isis being waived, the police shut them down within seconds.

 

If governments are weak, then we know what will happen, so the sooner they wake up and start putting a lid on their situations, the better.

 

7 hours ago, grollies said:

but, and here is wher your argument falls down. Christianity, Bhuddism, etc, etc, would allow you the right to this view. Islam wouldn't.

Sure, that is if the extremists got their way, but like I said, they are ants, look at Syria, why are all of those Muslims fleeing the country, because they don't want to be under that ideology, and I am sure most Muslims wouldn't want that way of life either.

 

7 hours ago, grollies said:

Mate, you're so wrong.

I respect you opinion, but don't necessarily agree on your views, as interesting as they are.   

 

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, blazes said:

When Saudi Arabia allows Christians to build churches or Buddhists to build temples, then, and only then, will relations between Islam and the civilized world begin to improve.

https://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/stories/islamic-fears

[4MyEgo]

6 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

Steve Bannon is a white supremacist and a racist fanatic. Really, hardly a source of balanced, objective and informed opinions on Islam. Or anything else for that matter.

https://www.todaytonightadelaide.com.au/stories/islamic-fears

[rwdrwdrwd]

12 hours ago, oby said:

blah, blah, blah,

?never seen a muslim sword?~~~~~~~~

 

 

ummmmmmmmm,

?do you see muslim burning kaffirs in cages??

sawing off heads ?? nail bombs??

drive trucks into crowds??

~~none so blind, that do not see~~

atheist, apostate first to go

very difficult to understand a mindset that condones wholesale slaughter and genocide of peoples with whom you difffer

 

 

You are taking the actions of a very small percentage of people within a religion, and assuming that they represent every believer of that religion.

 

But as you say, there are indeed 'none so blind as those that will not see'.

Edited February 28, 2017 by rwdrwdrwd

[wildewillie89]

16 hours ago, Goanna said:

The thai buddhists in the south can't be happy. How can you be, when your friends and family are randomly murdered by the followers of this evil cult. It appears that mainly the people who try to help them are killed. Nurses, teachers, police etc. Myanmar buddhist know how to deal with them.

I am an atheist so I naturally disrespect all religions, but...isn't it the other way around? The Muslims down South (make up something like over 90% of the population), were living peacefully with the Buddhists. Then thousands of troops came knocking on their doors, beating them, killing them, taking their way of life away from them. Terrorism is a very last resort, all other peaceful means are explored before turning to violence. Basic research will tell you that. The government didn't listen to their legitimate concerns so they turned to violence. That was my impression when I travelled down to Yala anyway. 

Generally, yes, Buddhists have a disliking to Muslims...usually it is an uneducated disliking though. My wife was a government official in Yala. The first few bombs she witnessed she had a disliking also, but then she looked deeper into the issue, read a few university papers, and then went out to find out what was really going on. She ended up with more Muslim friends in the South than Buddhist friends as they were generally nicer people. Went out to public areas on a daily/nightly basis and felt completely safe with them. I found the same when I traveled there. The mosque gladly welcomed me to explore its architecture, so did Muslim restaurants in the 'red zone'. 

Clearly you dont know the definition of 'cult', but we will bypass that.  Also research Robert Pape's paper on terrorism, I think you will find religion isn't as much of a factor as you think. This is research funded by the U.S Secretary of State into the motives of terrorism. Every terrorist act was investigated and witness' questioned as what were the motives behind the events. Generally, it is things liked armed forces coming into your community and giving you a hiding on a daily basis, so you fight back. Not some skewered interpretation that less than 1% of people have of their holy text. If that was the case then there would probably be more Christian terrorists than Muslims lol. 

As for the Myanmar comment, that just shows your ignorance. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by wildewillie89

[Kwasaki]

23 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Why , do they force feed you Roti ?

Don't mind japati or naan bread or most any bread thanks.

[Kwasaki]

23 hours ago, flipper2222222 said:

why would this get closed?

Well pretty obvious really mush, discussing religion never ends well,  and some, not all we're told are on the top of the list of things for making trouble in the world.

[Kwasaki]

23 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Why,do they look at you and think you shouldn't be here in their country.

Do they, you tell me. !

[Kwasaki]

[natway09]

RBOP         Thailand are one of the largest pork eaters in the world so what is your point????

[grollies]

15 hours ago, shadowofacloud said:

Steve Bannon is a white supremacist and a racist fanatic. Really, hardly a source of balanced, objective and informed opinions on Islam. Or anything else for that matter.

probably true but he is chief adviser to the most powerful man on the planet.

 

Like I said, we live in interesting times.

[shadowofacloud]

20 minutes ago, grollies said:

probably true but he is chief adviser to the most powerful man on the planet.

 

Like I said, we live in interesting times.

How the mighty have fallen...

 

Agree re: interesting times.

[grollies]

1 minute ago, shadowofacloud said:

How the mighty have fallen...

?

 

1 minute ago, shadowofacloud said:

Agree re: interesting times.