Thailand to collect 400-baht national park entrance fee from foreign visitors

[wakeupplease]

Easy way round this abuse is let the wife drive, if you go by car, put on some sunglasses sit in the back and bingo equal prices for one and all, works every time or did till I wrote this

[tomacht8]

12 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

The only foreign groups who get the local price at national parks are educational groups, I don't know where you got that about Chinese groups getting in cheap but I think you just made it up, right?  What on earth would queues have to do with the price?  Their rep goes up to the office while they are in the bus, not prearranged at all, I have seen it myself.  And the Chinese tour operators are not always low priced, they are available in a wide range of prices, not all get to do things like visit national parks, presumably due to the cost of the tickets.

LOL,
You do know nothing about that business.
Do you really think that a tour operator who brings in 50,000, 100,000 or more tourists a year in bus tours, does not negotiate the terms and prices? Do you really believe that the tour guides collect money for the entrance shortly before in the tour coaches?
The cousin of my wife has been working for decades in this business.

For the balance of arguments, I wish you, that the next time you have to pay 10 times the thai price for your haircut.

Edited March 9, 2017 by tomacht8

[Shawn0000]

Just now, tomacht8 said:

LOL,
You do nothing about that business.
Do you really think that a tour operator who brings in 50,000, 100,000 or more tourists a year in bus tours, does not negotiate the terms and prices? Do you really believe that the tour guides collect money for the entrance shortly before in the tour coaches?
The cousin of my wife has been working for decades in this business.

For the balance of the arguments, I wish you that the next time you have to pay 10 times the thai price for a haircut.

 

I am sure they do at private attractions, but at national parks, and considering they themselves have claimed the increase in revenue last year was largely down to the number of Chinese visitors, no, I think they do not.  But perhaps you have a better explanation for their almost double revenue last year than the official statement from the DNP that it was due to the number of foreigner tickets sold to Chinese tourists?

 

Your final statement is utterly bizarre, what has the price of a haircut got to do with your claim, that your wife's cousin told you that she can get a discount for a group of Chinese tourists at a national park?  How do you think that wishing a higher price on someone could "balance an argument" about whether or not Chinese tour groups get a discount?  Do at least try to engage your brain.

[tomacht8]

7 minutes ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

I am sure they do at private attractions, but at national parks, and considering they themselves have claimed the increase in revenue last year was largely down to the number of Chinese visitors, no, I think they do not.  But perhaps you have a better explanation for their almost double revenue last year than the official statement from the DNP that it was due to the number of foreigner tickets sold to Chinese tourists?

 

Your final statement is utterly bizarre, what has the price of a haircut got to do with your claim, that your wife's cousin told you that she can get a discount for a group of Chinese tourists at a national park?  How do you think that wishing a higher price on someone could "balance an argument" about whether or not Chinese tour groups get a discount?  Do at least try to engage your brain.

Do at least try to engage your brain.
Sorry to say that, but you're genuinely naive.
You really do not know how business runs in Thailand.
Behind the big chinese tour operators, are not "small" people .
They have connections, power and influence.
Be sure that there are different volume discounts, from park to park.
Why is that so hard to understand?

[Shawn0000]

4 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Do at least try to engage your brain.
Sorry to say that, but you're genuinely naive.
You really do not know how business runs in Thailand.
Behind the big chinese tour operators, are not "small" people .
They have connections, power and influence.
Be sure that there are different volume discounts, from park to park.
Why is that so hard to understand?

 

You don't have a better explanation than the DNP's own for their doubling of revenue last year other than you wife's cousin said that she can get a discount on Chinese tour groups, then?  How on earth did they manage to replace so many of the tourists who were paying the higher fee with these tourists paying a lesser rate and still end up with twice as much money?

[Notadoctor]

21 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

Wow, are you actually saying that I should inform myself of others assumptions rather than learn the facts?  Have the parks released a budget that details how the entrance fees are spent or not? All I see is an article with someone from the tourism ministry stating that they have not.

Random requests for citations on a forum is the hallmark of someone without an argument of their own. I think you don't actually know how to research a subject or form an objective opinion, but you'd rather make baseless gainsaying comments when you realise you have barked up the wrong tree. As I siad, if you can't find the inof or make and conclusions then I can't see the point of your postings.

step back and take a deep breath then look at the situation with NPs over the last 3 or 4 decades - read up on the papers   that have been published in English and then think about how the situation can be resolved - I have put forward my assessment of the situation and how I think it should be resolved - you patently have got the wrong end of the stick.

then if you disagree with anything I've written on the topic put your argument forward rather than obtuse and ludicrous comments that are deliberate misinterpretations of other people's reasoned arguments.

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by Notadoctor

[Notadoctor]

On 3/8/2017 at 10:49 PM, tomacht8 said:

That is not correct.
The major tour operators with Chinese customers have  package prices with the parks and other attractions.
Wholesale price for chinese customers in tourist buses.
There are no queues in front of the cash booths, this is already arranged before.
Otherwise the Chinese tour operators could not hold their low prices.

Really - I think you are guessing ....you are also comparing apples with lemons........tours from any country may or may not negotiate beneficial rates with the NP authorities - or they may just give a "commission" to those on site.......

like so many others on this thread you also appear to make the assumption that all national parks are the same with the same number of visitors and same demographics.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Notadoctor

[Notadoctor]

12 hours ago, Shawn0000 said:

 

They increased the budget by 500 million baht last year and their revenue from ticket sales was 1.82 billion, almost 20% of the total 10 billion baht budget and about double the revenue raised the year before, the decision to increase ticket prices was made in the 90's to ease the strain on the taxpayer, since then the budget has still increased by about 8 times within the same time that you claim they used the ticket price increases to avoid increasing the budget, and it is now approaching a 10,000% budget increase since 1990, with a big difference being that now the ticket sales approach 20% of costs while before they were less than 1%.

 

I have no idea why you think charging foreigners more is self destructive, it happens throughout the developing world, has happened at the parks in Thailand since the 90's and since then foreign visitor numbers have massively increased, revenue has increased and the parks have made some of their biggest achievements.  

 

The parks already make money through value added experience; from their accommodation, camping, shops and restaurants, but no one wants to see the parks developed like they have done in some countries, the good thing about Thai parks is that they are managing to get people to visit and pay without having to disturb the forrests, people are quite happy to camp on the edge and not venture more than a few KM's into the park, that is perfect from a conservation perspective, you make it sound as though they are not succeeding, like a few grumpy expats threatening to boycott who probably never went anyway is evidence over the doubled revenue last year.

As ever you really don't understand the full amounts required to run ALL the NPs and completely ignore th vital WTP factor .;.... internationally recognised as part of the charging for entrance ...... I get the impression you have formed and opinion and are shopping around desperately to find something that supports your ill-informed stance.

"people are quite happy to camp on the edge and not venture more than a few KM's into the park, that is perfect from a conservation perspective"

I also get the impression you don't fully understand the size or extent of NPs or the science and  thinking behind public access and conservation. Get up to speed!

Edited March 9, 2017 by Notadoctor

[Shawn0000]

2 hours ago, Notadoctor said:

As ever you really don't understand the full amounts required to run ALL the NPs and completely ignore th vital WTP factor .;.... internationally recognised as part of the charging for entrance ...... I get the impression you have formed and opinion and are shopping around desperately to find something that supports your ill-informed stance.

"people are quite happy to camp on the edge and not venture more than a few KM's into the park, that is perfect from a conservation perspective"

I also get the impression you don't fully understand the size or extent of NPs or the science and  thinking behind public access and conservation. Get up to speed!

 

You are demonstrating quite clearly that you have nothing to bring to this discussion in the way of actual fact.

 

"Random requests for citations on a forum is the hallmark of someone without an argument of their own."

I guess you don't know what random means, I was asking you to tell me what you were referring to, which is not the hallmark of someone without an argument, it is how conversations develop.  Ironically, people who resort to, you don't know, you don't know, you don't know, without actually telling anyone what it is that they apparently do know, probably don't actually know something themselves.

 

Now, if you have something of substance to bring I will hear it, but your input has become infantile at bet so adjust yourself or no more.

[yogi100]

17 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

LOL,
You do know nothing about that business.
Do you really think that a tour operator who brings in 50,000, 100,000 or more tourists a year in bus tours, does not negotiate the terms and prices? Do you really believe that the tour guides collect money for the entrance shortly before in the tour coaches?
The cousin of my wife has been working for decades in this business.

For the balance of arguments, I wish you, that the next time you have to pay 10 times the thai price for your haircut.

 

A haircut can be had for 70 baht by a falang in Pattaya.

 

How much does a Thai pay?

 

How much does a Chinese tourist pay?

Edited March 10, 2017 by yogi100

[welsh wizard]

I wonder if their is any travel org that advise agents on the going's on in certain countries, Thailand of late has become a little basket case in one way or another , maybe it's time travel agents in the west started to advise their clients accordingly, trouble is not many travel agents would know about the fee's charged or other matters in respect of Thailand. all they're interested in is a sale............................................ 

 
If they start controlling the number of tourists, who's going to lose out? It'll probably be the low-fee-paying Thais rather than the more lucrative foreigners. 
 
 
 

Travel agents in the UK can now be sued for not disclosing problems in any country you book. Travel companies have already had seminars advising thier agents.

Sent from my CUBOT DINOSAUR using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[kaorop]

10 hours ago, Notadoctor said:

Really - I think you are guessing ....you are also comparing apples with lemons........tours from any country may or may not negotiate beneficial rates with the NP authorities - or they may just give a "commission" to those on site.......

like so many others on this thread you also appear to make the assumption that all national parks are the same with the same number of visitors and same demographics.

For all your in depth knowledge and well thought out posts.

Clearly you didnt see the sign on the gate, it said "dont feed the trolls"

There is a fine, just ask the russian woman in phucket, which incidentally is 10 X more for "whitey"

and it pays for the paper the fine is issued on.

Species is known as a pretend troll as in they pretend to go to or do or know things, but just use google, some in the real world, very common in virtual world and unheard of in a NP

[Notadoctor]

On 3/10/2017 at 7:55 AM, Shawn0000 said:

 

You are demonstrating quite clearly that you have nothing to bring to this discussion in the way of actual fact.

 

"Random requests for citations on a forum is the hallmark of someone without an argument of their own."

I guess you don't know what random means, I was asking you to tell me what you were referring to, which is not the hallmark of someone without an argument, it is how conversations develop.  Ironically, people who resort to, you don't know, you don't know, you don't know, without actually telling anyone what it is that they apparently do know, probably don't actually know something themselves.

 

Now, if you have something of substance to bring I will hear it, but your input has become infantile at bet so adjust yourself or no more.

It's not rocket science - your remarks are random and unconnected to any rational thought - you therefore have no argument, but display your lack of knowledge by asking others for random citations. if you don't agree, don't ask for references that just shows you ignorance on the topic - put an alternative point forward - something you don't seem able to do.....

 

May I suggest your read my posts - they outline how i see the problem and prose a solution - 2 things you haven't done, apparently  because you don't (want to?) understand the issues involved.

 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Notadoctor

[Shawn0000]

24 minutes ago, Notadoctor said:

It's not rocket science - your remarks are random and unconnected to any rational thought - you therefore have no argument, but display your lack of knowledge by asking others for random citations. if you don't agree, don't ask for references that just shows you ignorance on the topic - put an alternative point forward - something you don't seem able to do.....

 

May I suggest your read my posts - they outline how i see the problem and prose a solution - 2 things you haven't done, apparently  because you don't (want to?) understand the issues involved.

 

 

One of your ideas was to up Thai entrance prices to offset the foreigner price under some false premise that dual pricing will have a negative effect on the parks despite the clear fact that it hasn't and has only increased their revenue.  If you want to make an assertion that is countered by evidence then you will need some sort of citation to back up your imagination or it will be taken as just that.  You also claimed that the government had used the dual pricing to avoid increasing their budget allowance despite the fact that in the time since the introduction of dual pricing the budget allounance has increased by 800%.  I am afraid your opinion lost all value when you chose to present it as being based on some degree of fact as I immediately presented you with facts to the contrary, which you childishly responded with, "you don't know".  You again fail to present anything of substance, just more "you don't know".  

[Shawn0000]

19 hours ago, welsh wizard said:

 

 

 

 

Travel agents in the UK can now be sued for not disclosing problems in any country you book. Travel companies have already had seminars advising thier agents.

Sent from my CUBOT DINOSAUR using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

 

 

 

 

Dual pricing would not count as a "problem" though, if it did they would be advising on this problem in half the world; most all of SE Asia, South America, most of Africa and the Indian Subcontinent, most developing countries do exactly the same, and rational people do not see it as a problem but a solution.

[nong38]

This will do tourism the shot in the arm that was required eh!

When you read next years figures for entry to the parks who will make up the shortfall?

[HaleySabai]

The National Parks here are mostly rubbish. Fast food with a view point...whoa!

But don't forget..that 400baht will get you into ALL the parks....in one day...yeah!!

[metisdead]

Offensive posts have been removed as well as the replies:

 

11) You will not post slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand, specific locations, Thai institutions such as the judicial or law enforcement system, Thai culture, Thai people or any other group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

 

 

Off topic nonsense posts and replies have been removed. 

[Notadoctor]

18 hours ago, HaleySabai said:

The National Parks here are mostly rubbish. Fast food with a view point...whoa!

But don't forget..that 400baht will get you into ALL the parks....in one day...yeah!!

no that scheme has been scrapped

[ThaiCitizen]

Acceptance is the key that most foreigners here are not willing to subscribe to. they are too set in their colonial, superior ways, wanting the best of a developing country while expecting Western standards - totally irrational. Old dogs and new tricks etc. Look closely at many poster's replies and the words they use and you have a change not to become a miserable old fart.

[Notadoctor]

8 minutes ago, ThaiCitizen said:

Acceptance is the key that most foreigners here are not willing to subscribe to. they are too set in their colonial, superior ways, wanting the best of a developing country while expecting Western standards - totally irrational. Old dogs and new tricks etc. Look closely at many poster's replies and the words they use and you have a change not to become a miserable old fart.

Now there's a nonsense post if ever I saw one.

Thailand is not a developing country so much as a rich one with very bad distribution of wealth.

 

tourism plays a very large part in the economy compared to most countries and it would therefore seem important not only to conserve their natural resources as a great assets they are but also to promote them in a way that encourages visitors.

 

i think it is quite clear from this thread that there is a huge amount of resentment as to how Thailand charges foreigners for access to these resources - this is both detrimental to visitor numbers and the country's international reputation.

Thailand is not an isolated parochial entity, it is part of the world and jointly responsible for the conservation of the environment and all that it contains - the poor management of NPs and apparently niggardly attitude to visitors does not create an atmosphere that reflects well on the country.

 

[albertalaska]

How long would this double pricing crap last if other countries started charging Thai nationals ten or twenty times the price for anything?  Too bad it's totally illegal in my country or I would be promoting the practice.  Think about  a 400 dollar entrance fee to a United States National Park for all Thai citizens.  555

[garyk]

It has started in Fang for sure. I just went to the local park here and they tried to charge me the new rate hike. A month ago I was getting in for 200 baht. I turned around and left. But, they don't care. They had a smirk on there faces. I don't care either at this point.

[Naam]

7 hours ago, albertalaska said:

How long would this double pricing crap last if other countries started charging Thai nationals ten or twenty times the price for anything?  Too bad it's totally illegal in my country or I would be promoting the practice.  Think about  a 400 dollar entrance fee to a United States National Park for all Thai citizens.  555

for the record: a non-Floridian US citizen pays triple or quadruple the entry price in any of the theme parks near Orlando (Disney World, MGM, Seaworld, etc.). and that applies to Alaskans too

 

our son and his girlfriend visiting us got FL driver's licenses and saved several hundred dollars.

[MartinL]

11 minutes ago, Naam said:

for the record: a non-Floridian US citizen pays triple or quadruple the entry price in any of the theme parks near Orlando (Disney World, MGM, Seaworld, etc.). and that applies to Alaskans too

 

our son and his girlfriend visiting us got FL driver's licenses and saved several hundred dollars.

Yes, that's all well known and something similar has been said many times in threads like this. However, you highlighted the problem in Thailand - they got proof of residence in Florida (DL in this case) and thus qualified, as of right, for the 'local' price, whichever nationality they happened to be. That just doesn't work in Thailand, does it? DL, Pink ID card etc. still doesn't give locals' price automatically.

[Notadoctor]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

for the record: a non-Floridian US citizen pays triple or quadruple the entry price in any of the theme parks near Orlando (Disney World, MGM, Seaworld, etc.). and that applies to Alaskans too

 

our son and his girlfriend visiting us got FL driver's licenses and saved several hundred dollars.

I think you are making the point against X10 pricing. Florida residents get "discount" - not outsiders a surcharge. ....and with local documentation - e.g. D/L they can gat that discount - in Thailand with my Thai D/L and my work permit/tax/residency etc I still can't officially get any discount but pay ten times the national rate.

[Srikcir]

54 minutes ago, Naam said:

for the record: a non-Floridian US citizen pays triple or quadruple the entry price in any of the theme parks near Orlando (Disney World, MGM, Seaworld, etc.). and that applies to Alaskans too

 

our son and his girlfriend visiting us got FL driver's licenses and saved several hundred dollars.

For the record: it's a matter of interstate pricing equality. Nothing similar to Thailand's discrimninatory dual pricing for non-citizens (aka foreigners).

 

Disney received substantial Florida legislative and zoning benefits such as State-issued tax-exempt bonds for public projects within the Disney improvement district (despite the sole beneficiary being Walt Disney Productions) and incorporation of Disney-built and controlled town of Celebration. Furthermore, Florida is the 4th largest state in population in the USA (after California, New York and Texas) so attracting Florida residents with special discounts was an important economic decision to make up for out-of-state low-season attendance.

 

[Naam]

22 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

For the record: it's a matter of interstate pricing equality.

it's dual pricing. period!

[Naam]

28 minutes ago, Notadoctor said:

Florida residents get "discount"

and therefore it's dual pricing. period!

[Naam]

1 hour ago, MartinL said:

Yes, that's all well known and something similar has been said many times in threads like this. However, you highlighted the problem in Thailand - they got proof of residence in Florida (DL in this case) and thus qualified, as of right, for the 'local' price, whichever nationality they happened to be. That just doesn't work in Thailand, does it? DL, Pink ID card etc. still doesn't give locals' price automatically.

Thailand is not Florida. as simple as that.