Condo ownership. Change from Foreign Leasehold to Thai Freehold. Easy?

[cheesyd]

There's a condo for sale. Currently owned by a foreigner on a registered 30 year Leasehold basis with the usual option to renew.

 

We ( myself & Thai wife ) want to buy it and will put it in her name, money to pay comes from her bank acc etc.  So it would be  held Freehold in a Thai name.

 

Q. Is the process for Leasehold to Thai freehold ownership relatively simple at the Land Office?

 

We've done freehold land sales from Thai to Thai and Thai company to Thai company ownership before.  Also Leasehold condo from foreign name to foreign name.  But I can't find any info about Leasehold to Thai freehold.   

 

Thanks in advance.

[blackcab]

It's easy enough to do, but it is critical that you absolutely check with the land office staff that the 30 year lease (and any other encumbrances - if any) have been cancelled before you complete.

 

As I'm sure you are aware, it is possible to sell property with leasehold tenants in situ (it happens with commercial property on a regular basis). If this happens the purchaser must honour the registered lease.

 

I'm not saying the seller is dodgy. I'm advising you to check anyway.

 

In terms of the sale, it's easy enough. As the buyer you can relax. Either the seller provides the land office with the required documents or the sale will not be processed.

 

In this situation I would suggest the seller visits the land office before the day of the sale to check their documents are in order.

[trogers]

Nothing to do with converting a leasehold into a freehold.

 

The condo has an owner. You buy from that owner, but you cannot take possession of the property until that 30-year lease expires or is cancelled.

Edited March 7, 2017 by trogers

[Delight]

 I,m a bit confused

 

Are you buying from the registered owner of the condo or the registered holder of the 30 year lease?

[trogers]

31 minutes ago, Delight said:

 I,m a bit confused

 

Are you buying from the registered owner of the condo or the registered holder of the 30 year lease?

The OP is the one who is confused.

 

There is no such thing as a leasehold condo. All condos are freehold, with a title deed bearing the name of the owner.

 

A owner can lease it out on a 30-year lease. The one who paid for the lease is called the leaseholder (or tenant), and is not the owner of the condo.

[blackcab]

11 hours ago, trogers said:

The OP is the one who is confused.

 

There is no such thing as a leasehold condo. All condos are freehold, with a title deed bearing the name of the owner.

 

A owner can lease it out on a 30-year lease. The one who paid for the lease is called the leaseholder (or tenant), and is not the owner of the condo.

 

I've seen this when property was purchased in a (proxy) company name and the company issued the lease. The proxy owner felt the lease gave them additional security against the property being sold by the other (nominee) directors or anyone else.

 

In actual fact it doesn't matter too much. Either the seller delivers an unencumbered property on the day of sale, or there is no completion.

[funandsuninbangkok]

Big pile of Thai real estate caca. 

 

Run away screaming. 

[trogers]

2 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

I've seen this when property was purchased in a (proxy) company name and the company issued the lease. The proxy owner felt the lease gave them additional security against the property being sold by the other (nominee) directors or anyone else.

 

In actual fact it doesn't matter too much. Either the seller delivers an unencumbered property on the day of sale, or there is no completion.

So. The company is the owner of the property. That's what it would show on the title deed.

 

Whoever got a lease from the company would just be a leaseholder.

[Delight]

 Q to Blackcab and Trogers

 

If the 30 year  lease is issued by  the Company-then would this arrangement show on the Condominium Title Deed?

[trogers]

1 hour ago, Delight said:

 Q to Blackcab and Trogers

 

If the 30 year  lease is issued by  the Company-then would this arrangement show on the Condominium Title Deed?

Any lease period of 3 years to 30 years have to be registered at the Land office, tax paid and recorded into the title deed.

 

Such a record would be marked as discharged should the lease expired or have been signed cancelled by the leaseholder.

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

6 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Big pile of Thai real estate caca. 

 

Run away screaming. 

Would leave it in your name not your thai wife's 

now that's the best advise anyone on here should be giving you unless there Thai of course 

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, trogers said:

Any lease period of 3 years to 30 years have to be registered at the Land office, tax paid and recorded into the title deed.

 

Such a record would be marked as discharged should the lease expired or have been signed cancelled by the leaseholder.

 

Agree. If a 30 year lease is not registered then it's not enforceable.

 

Just be certain to take vacant possession the day you complete.

[Destiny1990]

50 minutes ago, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

Would leave it in your name not your thai wife's 

now that's the best advise anyone on here should be giving you unless there Thai of course 

Yeah why it have to be in her name?

[bazza73]

Apart from all the legalities, IMHO it's madness to buy a condo. Consider the following:

 

Does the OP know how well it was built? Many condos have been built to the lowest cost of materials and labor.

How well is it managed? Is the management allowing holiday rentals, to the detriment of more permanent residents?

How much is in the building fund?

 

I know of one condo in Chiang Mai where the residents are on a permanent supply of rusty water, and another with constant electrical breakdowns. No money in the condo fund to fix the problems, and the Thai majority owners vote down any attempt at a levy. Renters don't last long.

 

If the OP is attempting to ensure his Thai wife has a source of income after he dies, there are better ways to do it. Such as willing her all his assets in Thailand.

 

 

[ericthai]

7 hours ago, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

Would leave it in your name not your thai wife's 

now that's the best advise anyone on here should be giving you unless there Thai of course 

why? If they are legally married makes no difference. This is Thailand not the west were you can be taken to the cleaners in a divorce. 

I have a few friends that got divorced in Thailand and were very happy with the court decision on their asset split. Which Thai law states anything acquired during the marriage is to be shared 50/50. The advantage of buying in his wife's name is that the funds don't have to come from overseas, but if he puts it in his name then the majority of the funds need to come from overseas. 

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

17 hours ago, ericthai said:

why? If they are legally married makes no difference. This is Thailand not the west were you can be taken to the cleaners in a divorce. 

I have a few friends that got divorced in Thailand and were very happy with the court decision on their asset split. Which Thai law states anything acquired during the marriage is to be shared 50/50. The advantage of buying in his wife's name is that the funds don't have to come from overseas, but if he puts it in his name then the majority of the funds need to come from overseas. 

Assume your thai then 

 

amazes me 50/50 for a split to suit the Thais 

yet anything else other than an advantage point for money to Thais 

foreginers don't get a looking or any rights in Thailand 

it's joke ! 

[blackcab]

18 minutes ago, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

Assume your thai then 

 

amazes me 50/50 for a split to suit the Thais 

yet anything else other than an advantage point for money to Thais 

foreginers don't get a looking or any rights in Thailand 

it's joke ! 

 

Are you talking from experience?

[ericthai]

9 hours ago, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

Assume your thai then 

 

amazes me 50/50 for a split to suit the Thais 

yet anything else other than an advantage point for money to Thais 

foreginers don't get a looking or any rights in Thailand 

it's joke ! 

I'm not thai and I'm talking about expat friends that got divorced in Thailand.  Women in Thailand are not treated the same as in the west where everything favors a woman in a divorce. 

[Destiny1990]

19 minutes ago, ericthai said:

I'm not thai and I'm talking about expat friends that got divorced in Thailand.  Women in Thailand are not treated the same as in the west where everything favors a woman in a divorce. 

Should we feed this troll?or just let him continue to make absurd comments.

[bazza73]

6 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Should we feed this troll?or just let him continue to make absurd comments.

What's absurd about the truth? You obviously don't have the benefit of experience.

Edited March 12, 2017 by bazza73
Addition

[smutcakes]

On March 10, 2560 BE at 5:22 PM, bazza73 said:

Apart from all the legalities, IMHO it's madness to buy a condo. Consider the following:

 

Does the OP know how well it was built? Many condos have been built to the lowest cost of materials and labor.

How well is it managed? Is the management allowing holiday rentals, to the detriment of more permanent residents?

How much is in the building fund?

 

I know of one condo in Chiang Mai where the residents are on a permanent supply of rusty water, and another with constant electrical breakdowns. No money in the condo fund to fix the problems, and the Thai majority owners vote down any attempt at a levy. Renters don't last long.

 

If the OP is attempting to ensure his Thai wife has a source of income after he dies, there are better ways to do it. Such as willing her all his assets in Thailand.

 

 

 

Its not madness at all if you are a careful, knowledgable buyer with common sense who studies the market place, does the homework on the developer, financials of the Condominium etc. 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

Its not madness at all if you are a careful, knowledgable buyer with common sense who studies the market place, does the homework on the developer, financials of the Condominium etc. 

 

A building can change dramatically in a very short time if the wrong people get involved in the committee and management. No amount of due diligence will help with this.

[smutcakes]

6 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

A building can change dramatically in a very short time if the wrong people get involved in the committee and management. No amount of due diligence will help with this.

True, but this is pretty uncommon.

[bazza73]

6 hours ago, smutcakes said:

True, but this is pretty uncommon.

You have some factual information; e.g. statistics on management and committee changes for a representative sample of condos in Thailand to support your assertion? No? Didn't think so.

[smutcakes]

1 hour ago, bazza73 said:

You have some factual information; e.g. statistics on management and committee changes for a representative sample of condos in Thailand to support your assertion? No? Didn't think so.

I have my personal knowledge through my work of many condos in bkk and pattaya. Yes there are some odd balls on committees but overall most have the best interest in their condos at heart, just sometimes differ on the way to get their. Admittedly Pattaya seems to have a lot more clueless and questionable Committee members than bkk. In bkk both the foreign and Thai committee members tend to be of a good quality.

 

If if it was common you would read a whole lot more about it. 

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

Admittedly Pattaya seems to have a lot more clueless and questionable Committee members than bkk.

 

Cant argue with that.

 

 

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

If if it was common you would read a whole lot more about it. 

 

Not necessarily, because so much is hushed up here. In my own building there have been major thefts that co-owners were not officially informed about at all, either at the time or subsequently.

And the likelihood of an incumbent committee reporting its own misdeeds or incompetence is not high.

[ericthai]

20 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Should we feed this troll?or just let him continue to make absurd comments.

 Been living in Thailand over 20 years. Seen several divorces in that time between expats and thai.  Please tell me your experience. 

[Itsnottheplaceitwas]

On 12 March 2017 at 3:46 PM, ericthai said:

 Been living in Thailand over 20 years. Seen several divorces in that time between expats and thai.  Please tell me your experience. 

I can 

a guy 4 doors away from me was very happy in Thailand 

met a thai girl 

he married her 

had a kid 

she talked him in to selling his condo 17 million 

and buying a house her take was our kiddy wants a garden ? 

Errr we have gardens & 2 swimming pools 

so despite mine & others comments 

he buys a house on a plot of land builds a pool 

buys a 2nd small home to rent 

both in her name as non Thais can't own land / house 

however can his / could his condo 

 

2 years later when he's money runs low she has an affair with a richer foreigner 

takes the big house 

moves new bloke in 

eventually boots him out the small rental house too 

he's spent 10000s with "thai " law firms 

loves his kids but isn't allowed much contact with them 

she's sold the rental home 

lives in the big house 

he's gone from 17 million condo & money in the bank 

to be broke hanging out in a few bars a renting a room locally just to see his kids 

 

he got cleaned out by his thai wife & then by 2 separate thai lawyers 

 

and the rental house that was sold was bought by a major thai developer & is now a hotel site 

 

people make comments it's not the west ? From this guys true story as I've watched it over 8 years unfold he would be better off had this happen in the west 

 

or or simply stayed in his original freehold condo in his name 

 

cheeky bit...h 

hes a broken man now 

but remains a good dad and sees his lad when she allows it 

 

ive heard & seen many others don't have the time to list them 

 

so as my post early on 

put the condo in your name & don't put her name even on the phone bill 

 

simple ! 

[bazza73]

29 minutes ago, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

I can 

a guy 4 doors away from me was very happy in Thailand 

met a thai girl 

he married her 

had a kid 

she talked him in to selling his condo 17 million 

and buying a house her take was our kiddy wants a garden ? 

Errr we have gardens & 2 swimming pools 

so despite mine & others comments 

he buys a house on a plot of land builds a pool 

buys a 2nd small home to rent 

both in her name as non Thais can't own land / house 

however can his / could his condo 

 

2 years later when he's money runs low she has an affair with a richer foreigner 

takes the big house 

moves new bloke in 

eventually boots him out the small rental house too 

he's spent 10000s with "thai " law firms 

loves his kids but isn't allowed much contact with them 

she's sold the rental home 

lives in the big house 

he's gone from 17 million condo & money in the bank 

to be broke hanging out in a few bars a renting a room locally just to see his kids 

 

he got cleaned out by his thai wife & then by 2 separate thai lawyers 

 

and the rental house that was sold was bought by a major thai developer & is now a hotel site 

 

people make comments it's not the west ? From this guys true story as I've watched it over 8 years unfold he would be better off had this happen in the west 

 

or or simply stayed in his original freehold condo in his name 

 

cheeky bit...h 

hes a broken man now 

but remains a good dad and sees his lad when she allows it 

 

ive heard & seen many others don't have the time to list them 

 

so as my post early on 

put the condo in your name & don't put her name even on the phone bill 

 

simple ! 

Perhaps this is an extreme example. He lost control of his money. She could not have done this to him if he kept everything in his name.

I've been taken to the cleaners twice in the West. IMHO Thai law is much fairer.

Sounds like he had some shonky lawyers as well. Who would have thought it?

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, Itsnottheplaceitwas said:

he got cleaned out by his thai wife & then by 2 separate thai lawyers 

 

I've lost track of the number of farangs I've met here to whom this has happened. Literally dozens of them. If I count the number who have lost large sums of money to Thais without ever getting married the figure moves into the hundreds.