Uncontrolled burning in the north

[rijb]

The government should have bought a few of these, instead of useless submarines.

 

 

[Gonefortea]

1 hour ago, Destiny1990 said:

These farmers have been warned long enough and in all honesty they do more damage then fish feeding tourists.

These farmers?? Are you sure it's the farmers burning? Plus it's there country. If they want to go against a never will be informed Law it's there choice.

[Gonefortea]

49 minutes ago, kannot said:

snakes  scorpions and other critters.................sheeesh no wonder Thailand is devoid of wildlife, those things all have a role  to play, I  suppose they also pour  tons  of chemicals onto the land making it nicely  toxic etc burnt  sugar cane is cheaper than unburnt and the land is  not as fertile after  burning............never mind throw  some  more chemicals on eh

Sorry but you're obviously talking about something you have no understanding of. The only thing put down in my neck of the woods is fertiliser no chemicals. And from the dawn of time burning has been done all over the world and the land is very fertile after burning and recovers very quickly.

Yes burnt sugar cane is cheaper. But see what you do is sell it uncut to sugar company for the unburnt price then there harvesters burn it for ease of cutting.

[Destiny1990]

15 minutes ago, Gonefortea said:

These farmers?? Are you sure it's the farmers burning? Plus it's there country. If they want to go against a never will be informed Law it's there choice.

Maybe u inhaled to much smoke since u typing foggy..

[grollies]

8 minutes ago, Gonefortea said:

Sorry but you're obviously talking about something you have no understanding of. The only thing put down in my neck of the woods is fertiliser no chemicals. And from the dawn of time burning has been done all over the world and the land is very fertile after burning and recovers very quickly.

Yes burnt sugar cane is cheaper. But see what you do is sell it uncut to sugar company for the unburnt price then there harvesters burn it for ease of cutting.

I think the OP is talking about 'slash and burn' of forrested areas. For growing mushrooms is BS.

 

My neighbours burn the land. After tapioca harvest they let it go to weed for a couple of months then burn and plough in. Puts potash into the soil.

 

They only do it in the evening when there is no wind and is very controlled. Sometimes we go and help.

 

It's just the way of life here. We've got 20 rai of rubber and the neighbours know that if they burned us down they'd have to pay.

[Dap]

1 hour ago, paulsingle said:

Sweet.

[Dap]

1 hour ago, rijb said:

The government should have bought a few of these, instead of useless submarines.

 

 

Excellent advice that (unfortunately) will never be heard ... or even understood 

[Berkshire]

2 hours ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

Thais lazy! NOOOOO..

You're sort of ignorant....NOOO?

[Anthony Loh]

Do you all really believe in the mushroom story? Well, if you talk with real forest people or environmentalists, it's pure fantasy. They may burn to promote the growth of mushrooms, but it does not work. Point number 2: The Government itself is causing some of the worse and most toxic fires. If you look at the hundreds of kilometres of verges that are burnt at this time of the year and you'll get my drift. Over at Mae Tha in the Chiang Mai region I cycled past about 10km of burnt verges some of which spread well into the adjoining jungle. This burning saves them clearing the mountains of rubbish that Thais seem to think is ok to dump by the bag-load along the edge of the road. The local governments are under an obligation to keep the areas clean, so they simply burn it all. And as the plastic is burnt at low temperatures what happens? Well they fill the air with poisonous toxins. Clever eh? But the sting in the tail is that all the posters about "No burning" that the SAME government workers erected got burnt too! What fun! Now how about the Northern Thai Sports Authority who decided to build an incinerator in the 700-year sports complex, Chiang Mai. Now the mountains of rubbish, including polystyrene and plastic, can all be happily burnt. Yes! Burnt at low temperatures using wood as a fuel and without, to the best of my knowledge, any scrubbers in the stack. Clever eh? So the kids in the local school can breathe in this noxious and dangerous air all the year around. Wow! They no longer have to wait for the burning season!!!! And the people using the sports facilities? Same thing. Nice dirty air for all. Now that's what I call intelligent thinking. "Have you tried telling them?" I was aked. "Yes", I said "Have you ever tried talking to a brick wall?"

"Talking to a brick wall" hahaha! That's true, the local will never care about the fire and they only care about they own interests. If this big fire is put up by a foreigner, it will be a very serious case, 1 million find or ten years in prison, maybe both together for the foreigner. 555!!!


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[paulsingle]

2 hours ago, SpeakeasyThai said:

Thais lazy! NOOOOO..

I lived in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and Malawi for 20 years. The first time I came to Thailand it immediately struck me how hard working and enterprising Thai people are compared to Zimbabweans or Zambians or Malawians. I had never seen a little kitchen built onto the side of a small motorbike before. There are many other examples of ingenuity and industriousness here compared to Africa. There I saw far more laziness than here. Africans are very quick to ask for aid but slow to address their fundamental problems. There are plenty of lazy people in my home country - UK. They simply rely on benefits generated from the remuneration of others that do work.

 

I don't think Thais are lazy.

 

On the issue of burning, Africans would set fire to fallow land in the dry season so that after it had burnt clean, they could find the nests of field mice and dig them out to cook and eat. I wouldn't mind but this used to happen on the farmland I managed and invariably got out of control. Hundress of acres sometimes got burnt so someone could get a bag of mice.

[oldlakey]

4 hours ago, starky said:

Glad someone said it. Also gets rid of the snakes scorpions and other critters hiding in the cane makes it safer for the cutters. Been done for generations cant see the method changing anytime soon burning plastic rubber and all that other nasty shit I have a problem with but when you live in the jungle with zero waste management services I guess you have no choice.

You always have a choice, but just make sure its your turn to have use of the family brain cell

[mick220675]

5 hours ago, Gonefortea said:

What the he'll has education got to do with burning sugar?. We don't burn our sugar crop we sell it in situ to the sugar company. They employ a gang of sugar cutters to harvest it. The night before cutting starts they go into field and burn the sugar. Makes it a dam site easier to cut. Plus it makes our job easier as it burns the weeds away thus we get healthy shoots comming up very quickly. So just maybe there is method in what people see as madness

We have been growing sugar for the last 12 years, my wife's family works for a sugar factory providing a teams of cutters for those who are contracted to the factory. It is not as simple as you say, if you burn the field before you cut the sugar it reduces the moisture level of the cane, so you will receive a lower price. The sugar is tested in the factory, you as a grower can go witness the testing.

 

The difference is money a cutter is paid one baht per bundle of burnt sugar, or three baht for cane that has been stripped by hand as there is a higher moister content. Most cutters would prefer to burn the field as there job will be a lot easier, but they will need to cut more.

 

The factory supervisor (my wife,s farther) dose not care  how the sugar comes to the factory as they do not lose out, the grower is paid by the quality and quantity.

 

As you say after harvesting a burnt field will shoot quickly, but the weeds will also come back faster and will need treating.

 

The sugar factory is no ones friend they are there to make as much money as possible. This year was the first year they introduced a mechanical harvester, no burning little labour and much faster. I think 10 years from now we will see lot more of these machine's as has happen'd with the rice harvesters. 

 

It is worth saying that the last king of Thailand, who was a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable than me repeatedly told farmers it was not a good idea to burn any field.

[oldlakey]

15 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

I lived in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and Malawi for 20 years. The first time I came to Thailand it immediately struck me how hard working and enterprising Thai people are compared to Zimbabweans or Zambians or Malawians. I had never seen a little kitchen built onto the side of a small motorbike before. There are many other examples of ingenuity and industriousness here compared to Africa. There I saw far more laziness than here. Africans are very quick to ask for aid but slow to address their fundamental problems. There are plenty of lazy people in my home country - UK. They simply rely on benefits generated from the remuneration of others that do work.

 

I don't think Thais are lazy.

 

On the issue of burning, Africans would set fire to fallow land in the dry season so that after it had burnt clean, they could find the nests of field mice and dig them out to cook and eat. I wouldn't mind but this used to happen on the farmland I managed and invariably got out of control. Hundress of acres sometimes got burnt so someone could get a bag of mice.

Glad to see you kept on top of things while you were the manager

[bazza73]

It's early days yet; however, in the CM/CR area I do believe the visibility is better than previous years. Two years ago I couldn't see more than 500 meters - now it's more like 5 km. Fingers crossed.

[Gonefortea]

26 minutes ago, mick220675 said:

We have been growing sugar for the last 12 years, my wife's family works for a sugar factory providing a teams of cutters for those who are contracted to the factory. It is not as simple as you say, if you burn the field before you cut the sugar it reduces the moisture level of the cane, so you will receive a lower price. The sugar is tested in the factory, you as a grower can go witness the testing.

 

The difference is money a cutter is paid one baht per bundle of burnt sugar, or three baht for cane that has been stripped by hand as there is a higher moister content. Most cutters would prefer to burn the field as there job will be a lot easier, but they will need to cut more.

 

The factory supervisor (my wife,s farther) dose not care  how the sugar comes to the factory as they do not lose out, the grower is paid by the quality and quantity.

 

As you say after harvesting a burnt field will shoot quickly, but the weeds will also come back faster and will need treating.

 

The sugar factory is no ones friend they are there to make as much money as possible. This year was the first year they introduced a mechanical harvester, no burning little labour and much faster. I think 10 years from now we will see lot more of these machine's as has happen'd with the rice harvesters. 

 

It is worth saying that the last king of Thailand, who was a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable than me repeatedly told farmers it was not a good idea to burn any field.

In our case we sell our field sugar to the company rep who we call when the sugar is ready for harvest. He comes inspects, tests the sugar quality and puts an offer in for the whole crop. We then go away and work out the tonew weight cost and then visit a local buyer. Again he will come and test ect then offer a price by the ton as apposed to the company guys whole price. As it happens this year the companies price was the better offer. (I know the price fluctuations within the buying period but as we don't want to harvest our self's until he third cycle from the cane we sell it uncut). The company guys rocked up the night before cutting and burnt all the fields. That of no consequence to us as the money offered is signed sealed and delivered. Yes the weeds do grow back at the same speed as the shoots but are easily managed in our case by hand hoes and two days of bloody hard work every month for three months we use no weed killers  until the sugar is big enough to cope.

[paulsingle]

24 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Glad to see you kept on top of things while you were the manager

It wasn't possible to prevent an individual dropping a lighted match when one had 5000 acres to watch 24/7.

Simple to throw a lighted match and then disappear. Anyone scratching around in the ashes later would obviously deny having started the fire.

I take it you were being facetious? 

[oldlakey]

21 minutes ago, paulsingle said:

It wasn't possible to prevent an individual dropping a lighted match when one had 5000 acres to watch 24/7.

Simple to throw a lighted match and then disappear. Anyone scratching around in the ashes later would obviously deny having started the fire.

I take it you were being facetious? 

A lighted match you NOW say

Yes I agree it is simple to discard a lighted match and then do one, I suppose they came back for the bag of field mice later

[beautifulthailand99]

As lovely as Cm is and I love to visit - this is the sole reason we wouldn't live there anymore. I gave up smoking 5 years ago and have no intention of starting again !

[louse1953]

17 hours ago, ogb said:

Its a lazy way of farming which has been outlawed in more civilized countries.

I agree,but a lot of Thai cutters refuse to cut unless burn't.

[starky]

15 hours ago, kannot said:

snakes  scorpions and other critters.................sheeesh no wonder Thailand is devoid of wildlife, those things all have a role  to play, I  suppose they also pour  tons  of chemicals onto the land making it nicely  toxic etc burnt  sugar cane is cheaper than unburnt and the land is  not as fertile after  burning............never mind throw  some  more chemicals on eh

Its not a scorched earth policy they are not razing the whole country to the ground. I am sure there will be plenty of crittters left. To be honest I dont think its the best but I am not a destitute subsistence farmer with virtually no education and no one willing to encourage me to learn, improve myself or my position in life. So I will leave the thrones and high horses to all the others for whom it seems so easy to judge people so effortlessly eh?

[Nice Boyd]

Everybody has a <deleted> lighter in their pocket in this country ignorance is Bliss, here


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[kannot]

On 3/8/2017 at 6:28 PM, Gonefortea said:

Sorry but you're obviously talking about something you have no understanding of. The only thing put down in my neck of the woods is fertiliser no chemicals. And from the dawn of time burning has been done all over the world and the land is very fertile after burning and recovers very quickly.

Yes burnt sugar cane is cheaper. But see what you do is sell it uncut to sugar company for the unburnt price then there harvesters burn it for ease of cutting.

Maybe a  quick read of an actual test instead of "what weve done for years"  might change your  mind.......but I doubt  it.

This is always a  crap argument "weve always done it this way " or in Thailand they do love " someone who has 25 years experience" usually  doing something the wrong way.

Sugar, which is what we are  talking about, is better with the leaves not burnt, the ground is more productive , more fertile using the old leaves NOT burning them off. No here say no "weve always done it this way" but tested scientifically over 20 years ago in Vietnam so relevant to Thailand

 

http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd7/2/9.htm

[daveAustin]

It will never stop folks and even if it dies locally you'll still be subject to the junk coming over from Burma. All you can do is move away, or at least abscond for 3 months of the year.

[grollies]

44 minutes ago, kannot said:

Maybe a  quick read of an actual test instead of "what weve done for years"  might change your  mind.......but I doubt  it.

This is always a  crap argument "weve always done it this way " or in Thailand they do love " someone who has 25 years experience" usually  doing something the wrong way.

Sugar, which is what we are  talking about, is better with the leaves not burnt, the ground is more productive , more fertile using the old leaves NOT burning them off. No here say no "weve always done it this way" but tested scientifically over 20 years ago in Vietnam so relevant to Thailand

 

http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd7/2/9.htm

Interesting paper. The intro though talks about burning of dead leaves after harvest rather than burning through the crop before harvest as gonefortea was talking about and I see round here.

 

I think that post harvest the dead detrius is left on the ground and ploughed in.

 

I don't know enough about harvesting sugar cane to comment further. Maybe gonefortea could explain further. Mulching is always a good idea whether on a small veg plot, round tree bases or on large crop fields. IMHO.

[wildewillie89]

Basically the way the law is set out is that the Mayor of Tessaban has to approve the official warning to the people who are burning. So the environmental health officer cant do too much about it without his or her approval (no matter how passionate they are about it). If they continue to burn then they will receive a fine of either 500 or 5000 baht (cant remember which one) per day after that warning is given. However, the problem is this. What Mayor will go out and do this when he is relying on those very people he is about to approve a massive fine to vote for him. It is a law with many loopholes in it. 

The current discussion is to ban all bins in households. So the proposed idea is to take away the bin per every 10 houses or whatever it is, replace it with one hazards bin in the village for hazardous material, have pvc piping recycle type bins for plastic bottles etc. And then put your other rubbish in a garbage bag and leave it out the front of the house to be collected. This relies on people sorting through their rubbish (which I believe people will just end up burning). It also relies on the fact that dogs will not rip open the garbage bags (other countries with this system also have laws relating to dogs being fenced in). So all in all the environmental agenda at the moment is a focus on rubbish, not burning it seems. 

[Jonmarleesco]

On 3/8/2017 at 5:02 PM, TKDfella said:

On 3/8/2017 at 4:34 PM, Gonefortea said:

To tell you the truth I don't care as we're we are we are not bothered with burning, a case of I'm alright jack. Simple solution is move.

Then you're a prat! 

[kannot]

On 3/8/2017 at 9:35 PM, Gonefortea said:

In our case we sell our field sugar to the company rep who we call when the sugar is ready for harvest. He comes inspects, tests the sugar quality and puts an offer in for the whole crop. We then go away and work out the tonew weight cost and then visit a local buyer. Again he will come and test ect then offer a price by the ton as apposed to the company guys whole price. As it happens this year the companies price was the better offer. (I know the price fluctuations within the buying period but as we don't want to harvest our self's until he third cycle from the cane we sell it uncut). The company guys rocked up the night before cutting and burnt all the fields. That of no consequence to us as the money offered is signed sealed and delivered. Yes the weeds do grow back at the same speed as the shoots but are easily managed in our case by hand hoes and two days of bloody hard work every month for three months we use no weed killers  until the sugar is big enough to cope.

priced by the ton, and when burnt it  will weigh less = less money for you

[Gonefortea]

4 hours ago, kannot said:

Maybe a  quick read of an actual test instead of "what weve done for years"  might change your  mind.......but I doubt  it.

This is always a  crap argument "weve always done it this way " or in Thailand they do love " someone who has 25 years experience" usually  doing something the wrong way.

Sugar, which is what we are  talking about, is better with the leaves not burnt, the ground is more productive , more fertile using the old leaves NOT burning them off. No here say no "weve always done it this way" but tested scientifically over 20 years ago in Vietnam so relevant to Thailand

 

http://www.lrrd.org/lrrd7/2/9.htm

You can quote tests till the cows come home it all depends on the soil. Mm I wonder if I've got the same soil as Vietnam and did they use chemicals on the land sometime in the past I wonder. I have already said the sugar is worth more unburnt. But once I've sold it upright not cut which I do if the gang wants to burn it so be it i have the money for unburnt. We all have our own way of working what suits one doesn't suit the other. But please don't quote about a study in another country. And 20 year old study really.

[Gonefortea]

2 hours ago, kannot said:

priced by the ton, and when burnt it  will weigh less = less money for you

You really don't read do you. I will say gain we sell to the company directly he comes along gives us a price before cutting for the whe crop we get the money before cutting I don't care if they burn it afterwards.

[Gonefortea]

On 08/03/2017 at 5:02 PM, TKDfella said:

On 08/03/2017 at 4:34 PM, Gonefortea said:

To tell you the truth I don't care as we're we are we are not bothered with burning, a case of I'm alright jack. Simple solution is move.

Then you're a prat! 

 

 Well well well do I care NOT, sticks and stones boy sticks and stones.