Dhammakaya deputy abbot stripped of his title

[webfact]

Dhammakaya deputy abbot stripped of his title

 

 

BANGKOK: -- A Royal Command was announced on Wednesday stripping Phra Ratchapawanajarn or Phra Thattachivo, deputy abbot of Wat Dhammakaya, of his title effective as of March 7.

 

The Royal Command which was counter-signed by Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha cited the deputy abbot of having committed several offences and wrongful acts ranging from providing shelter to a criminal suspect, defying NCPO Order No 5/2560, to ignoring summonses to report himself to authorities and using temple money to invest in stocks.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/dhammakaya-deputy-abbot-stripped-title/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2017-03-09

[Somtamnication]

Surreal. What a fiasco. 

[colinneil]

Another 1 bites the dust, keep going many more of these twisted/ greedy monks to go.

These people have only done things to help destroy Buddism.

[ezzra]

 

Time someone took the intuitive and put those who are Not above

the law of the land back to their places of being public servants,

living of the public and government dime, and to quail any illusions

of grandeurs they have.....

[Get Real]

Another great move, against something that is clearly namned as a sect. In most countries, sect leader are not persons that can get the same treatment and titles like a religious leader.

[ddavidovsky]

Has there been a trial proving these 'wrongful acts'?

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Has there been a trial proving these 'wrongful acts'?

Thailand has rights that are given to all that establish the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra but all these have been cast aside by the junta government where their mantra is "might over rights". All these stripping of ranks and even the rice scheme cases have decisions made before finalization of any judiciary verdict. 

[nahkit]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Thailand has rights that are given to all that establish the "innocent until proven guilty" mantra but all these have been cast aside by the junta government where their mantra is "might over rights". All these stripping of ranks and even the rice scheme cases have decisions made before finalization of any judiciary verdict. 

I don't think the stripping of a monks' rank requires a judicial decision does it?

 

There have been several instances where monks who were caught drinking or with drugs were stripped of their robes by the abbot of their temple right there on the spot, no judicial intervention required.

[AGareth2]

stripping rank and de-robbing are 2 different issues

[ThaiBob]

5 hours ago, colinneil said:

Another 1 bites the dust, keep going many more of these twisted/ greedy monks to go.

These people have only done things to help destroy Buddism.

A post completely ignorant of the facts. The facts against these monks were "created"  just like the facts used against the the Burmese boys in the Koh Tao case. Just another case of Thailand human rights abuses. 

[colinneil]

12 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

A post completely ignorant of the facts. The facts against these monks were "created"  just like the facts used against the the Burmese boys in the Koh Tao case. Just another case of Thailand human rights abuses. 

 

So i am ignorant ok, can live with that.

The facts are these so-called monks are conmen/crooks /thieves.

[Eric Loh]

23 minutes ago, nahkit said:

I don't think the stripping of a monks' rank requires a judicial decision does it?

 

There have been several instances where monks who were caught drinking or with drugs were stripped of their robes by the abbot of their temple right there on the spot, no judicial intervention required.

 

There is a difference in stripping a monastic rank and defrocking, the examples you referenced. If being charged for committing several offenses and stripped, then surely Phra Buddha Issara who has several charges will be similarly stripped. This 'situation' was crafted to put pressure on the temple and makes them look bad. Do you noticed that in every news of similar nature, the list of ex-monk charges are always included repeatedly. A bit of over play and dramatization always help the cause.    

[nahkit]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

 

There is a difference in stripping a monastic rank and defrocking, the examples you referenced. If being charged for committing several offenses and stripped, then surely Phra Buddha Issara who has several charges will be similarly stripped. This 'situation' was crafted to put pressure on the temple and makes them look bad. Do you noticed that in every news of similar nature, the list of ex-monk charges are always included repeatedly. A bit of over play and dramatization always help the cause.    

So does the stripping of a monastic rank require a prior guilty verdict in court or is it solely at the discretion of whoever bestowed the rank in the first place?

[yardrunner]

4 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Has there been a trial proving these 'wrongful acts'?

No because the defendants refuse to appear before the investigators

[elgordo38]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

 

Time someone took the intuitive and put those who are Not above

the law of the land back to their places of being public servants,

living of the public and government dime, and to quail any illusions

of grandeurs they have.....

This has gone to the point of no return for the government they must press on or fall on their posterior. This institution has become almost a law unto themselves and with all the hidden booty I am sure the government will not let go until they find the treasure. Then they will conjur up some sovereign rights act and seize the whole thing. Its all about the money first and cutting the head off of a threatening power base second. When you get to big you make enemies. 

[ThaiBob]

3 hours ago, colinneil said:

So i am ignorant ok, can live with that.

The facts are these so-called monks are conmen/crooks /thieves.

If you understood the real facts in this case and not what is reported in the Thai media then you would retract this statement. Thailand junta cannot have the truth reported, consequently foreign news sources banned and stories like the BBC towers will continue. 

[colinneil]

32 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

If you understood the real facts in this case and not what is reported in the Thai media then you would retract this statement. Thailand junta cannot have the truth reported, consequently foreign news sources banned and stories like the BBC towers will continue. 

 

Please stop talking sh...e ok you think what you like, you dont agree with me ok.

The fact is you are wrong, but hey who cares.

[ThaiBob]

11 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Please stop talking sh...e ok you think what you like, you dont agree with me ok.

The fact is you are wrong, but hey who cares.

Have a good day, sorry if the truth bothers you. 

[ddavidovsky]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

The facts are these so-called monks are conmen/crooks /thieves.

Your ardent belief that the regime is doing all this to counter corruption is touching. Have you not noticed that 'countering corruption' is the excuse used repeatedly to gain and consolidate power, and to remove all opposition?

 

This is not about chasing someone suspected of money-laundering. Money-launderers are ten-a-penny. This (and the case against this abbot) is about clamping down on an institution that has defied the regime, presented a challenge to their complete control of society.

[colinneil]

1 minute ago, ddavidovsky said:

Your ardent belief that the regime is doing all this to counter corruption is touching. 

 

 

 

Please explain where you got that idea from.

Me believing the government is countering corruption is laughable, as i you take time to read my posts, that is 1 thing i have never said.

[ddavidovsky]

1 minute ago, colinneil said:

Please explain where you got that idea from.

Me believing the government is countering corruption is laughable, as i you take time to read my posts, that is 1 thing i have never said.

You support the junta's actions against this temple. The junta's actions against the temple are being taken entirely with a claim to countering corruption. Therefore you believe the junta is concerned with countering corruption.

Defy the logic in that if you can.

 

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, nahkit said:

So does the stripping of a monastic rank require a prior guilty verdict in court or is it solely at the discretion of whoever bestowed the rank in the first place?

No it doesn't and there is no precedent. That fact I have to accept but look at it this way. The stripping of rank is only by recommendation by the junta PM and he is now perceived to have a agenda. A guilty verdict by the court will give him higher moral ground. Starting with using 44, his actions are not perceived well by the temple followers and neutrals.   

[khunken]

51 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

You support the junta's actions against this temple. The junta's actions against the temple are being taken entirely with a claim to countering corruption. Therefore you believe the junta is concerned with countering corruption.

Defy the logic in that if you can.

 

Twisting the facts - eh. No logic in your post.

The case against the temple and senior monks is fraud (among other charges) that in most countries is against the law - laws which have long pre-dated the junta.

Do you think that the Klong Chan Credit Union investors, who have lost billions in a major fraud, shouldn't receive some sort of justice?

It's not just 'countering corruption' it's enforcing the law against all the crooks involved. The Credit Union head has been convicted and is in jail & so should those who received the stolen money from the head.

[ThaiBob]

17 hours ago, khunken said:

Twisting the facts - eh. No logic in your post.

The case against the temple and senior monks is fraud (among other charges) that in most countries is against the law - laws which have long pre-dated the junta.

Do you think that the Klong Chan Credit Union investors, who have lost billions in a major fraud, shouldn't receive some sort of justice?

It's not just 'countering corruption' it's enforcing the law against all the crooks involved. The Credit Union head has been convicted and is in jail & so should those who received the stolen money from the head.

Are you aware the credit union was repayed and the credit union thanked and dropped all charges against the temple?  Are you aware the credit union funds were given to others (wats, universities, etc) and they have not been charged for receiving stolen funds and not repayed the credit union? 

[robblok]

13 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

Are you aware the credit union was repayed and the credit union thanked and dropped all charges against the temple?  Are you aware the credit union funds were given to others (wats, universities, etc) and they have not been charged for receiving stolen funds and not repayed the credit union? 

So, if I rob you and I pay it back.. no crime has been committed ? Could you tell me where you live please.. i like your attitude.. if you catch me i just give it back. 

 

Do I think those others should also be prosecuted.. yes.. but that that did not happen (yet) does not give this temple a free pass. 

[ThaiBob]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

So, if I rob you and I pay it back.. no crime has been committed ? Could you tell me where you live please.. i like your attitude.. if you catch me i just give it back. 

 

Do I think those others should also be prosecuted.. yes.. but that that did not happen (yet) does not give this temple a free pass. 

False equivalency. The former president of the credit union(a rich man himself) stold the funds and donated much of it to the temple, other temples, universities, charities, etc. He is now in jail. The temple unknowingly accepted fraudulent donations in the form of cheques (if you launder money you don't leave a paper trail) which was used to build temple buildings. The money was returned, lawsuits dropped and charges never should have made. It's not about law enforcement but a complicated scenario of power, religion, envy, Buddhism and politics. 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, ThaiBob said:

False equivalency. The former president of the credit union(a rich man himself) stold the funds and donated much of it to the temple, other temples, universities, charities, etc. He is now in jail. The temple unknowingly accepted fraudulent donations in the form of cheques (if you launder money you don't leave a paper trail) which was used to build temple buildings. The money was returned, lawsuits dropped and charges never should have made. It's not about law enforcement but a complicated scenario of power, religion, envy, Buddhism and politics. 

Of course this was laundering.. do you think he would give billions out of the goodness of his heart. Rest assured that deals were made to get part of that money back laundered. The tempel never got donations as high as these so they were out of the ordinary. The defense your trying to uphold does not work.

 

(stealing money and then giving it away makes sense.. NOT) only if it is money laundering does it make sense.

Edited March 10, 2017 by robblok

[ThaiBob]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

Of course this was laundering.. do you think he would give billions out of the goodness of his heart. Rest assured that deals were made to get part of that money back laundered. The tempel never got donations as high as these so they were out of the ordinary. The defense your trying to uphold does not work.

 

(stealing money and then giving it away makes sense.. NOT) only if it is money laundering does it make sense.

Wrong, the thief is in jail and he never implicated anyone else to get a more lenient sentence. The cheques were to the temple not the Abbott. He received them in formal merit making ceremony in front of thousands of worshippers. This is the wealthiest temple in Thailand with a million followers and receiving large donations like this over a period of time is not uncommon. This is not money laundering, if you want to see money laundering come to Pattaya and follow the Russian money. 

[robblok]

Just now, ThaiBob said:

Wrong, the thief is in jail and he never implicated anyone else to get a more lenient sentence. The cheques were to the temple not the Abbott. He received them in formal merit making ceremony in front of thousands of worshippers. This is the wealthiest temple in Thailand with a million followers and receiving large donations like this over a period of time is not uncommon. This is not money laundering, if you want to see money laundering come to Pattaya and follow the Russian money. 

No you say I am wrong.. its your opinion.. one that i don't agree with given the facts.

 

Would you rat on others the moment he says something he endangers all the money he has stashed away from the laundering. That defeats the purpose.

 

The Abbot was the defacto leader of the temple no wonder they go after him, and this is the perfect money laundering scheme.. temples are almost not checked as they have no tax liability. But sure you keep to your alternate news I keep to mine. 

[khunken]

1 hour ago, ThaiBob said:

Are you aware the credit union was repayed and the credit union thanked and dropped all charges against the temple?  Are you aware the credit union funds were given to others (wats, universities, etc) and they have not been charged for receiving stolen funds and not repayed the credit union? 

I am aware that the temple & monks claimed that the money was repaid. I'm not aware that the Credit Union 'thanked & dropped all charges', in fact I don't believe it. If you have proof of that, post it, otherwise it's false.

I do recall that other stolen money was given out to various people & I don't know whether they have been charged or not.

What I do know is that major sums of money were given to the crooks who run Wat Dammakaya and that even if (a big if) they pay it back they are guilty of receiving stolen money - at the very least. I also suggest that there was nothing 'unknowingly' about it.

Are you a member of the cult?

Edited March 10, 2017 by khunken