Pheu Thai suggests mutual pardons, apologies necessary

[webfact]

Pheu Thai suggests mutual pardons, apologies necessary
By JITRAPORN SENAWONG,
KASAMAKORN CHANWANPEN
THE NATION

 

Phumtham Wechayachai, fourth from left, and Sudarat Keyuraphan, second from left, yesterday attend military-led reconciliation talks at the Defence Ministry.

 

BANGKOK: -- THE PHEU Thai Party yesterday said the government-initiated reconciliation talks should involve mutual pardons and apologies in order to make a fresh beginning.

 

The process of reconciliation should take place under democratic rule and hence it would not be a process that could be achieved in one day, the Pheu Thai said.

 

The former ruling party was yesterday the 35th party to attend the invitation-only forum organised by the Defence Ministry to discuss conflict resolution and peace. It’s a part of the government committee on reconciliation chaired by Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan.

 

Pheu Thai, however, did not directly bring up the issue of amnesty in the talks as some people had expected, but touched only on “reconciliatory and transitional justice delivery”. 

 

Full story: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30308395

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-03-09

[whatawonderfulday]

Can't see the General going for that one having removed a democratically elected PM by force . Maybe the only thing he would apologise about was that he felt with the benefit of hindsight he should have done it sooner.

[chainarong]

Talk is cheap and the set up within the Thai Parliament and administration doesn't allow for any compromise , the damage was done back in 92 when they negotiated that generals would still run departments , that was plain stupid, they had the opportunity to kick the guts out of the military replace the system with a Westminster or whatever style of government and they never did, Thailand is now a complete mess, where  you actually need the military to keep these booff heads inline even if it takes a coup, the vacuum left if the military disappeared would kill the country anarchy would rein , you have to decide a peaceful co existence or complete military rule none of which will lead to a democracy. ........................................................ 

Edited March 9, 2017 by chainarong

[darksidedog]

"Pheu Thai, however, did not directly bring up the issue of amnesty in the talks as some people had expected, but touched only on “reconciliatory and transitional justice delivery”. 

What exactly is that then, if not another way of saying they want amnesties?

[TheFishman1]

Just talking same same TIT

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

"Pheu Thai, however, did not directly bring up the issue of amnesty in the talks as some people had expected, but touched only on “reconciliatory and transitional justice delivery”. 

What exactly is that then, if not another way of saying they want amnesties?

If its an amnesty for the low footsoldiers I am all for it but if it includes the likes of Jattuporn and Thaksin I strongly disagree. 

[aussieinthailand]

49 minutes ago, robblok said:

If its an amnesty for the low footsoldiers I am all for it but if it includes the likes of Jattuporn and Thaksin I strongly disagree. 

OK so no amnesty for the big boy's giving the orders, cool.   Now how about the self gifted amnesty the junta is enjoying for past present and future?  Should that be revoked and crimes committed be punished? 

[robblok]

1 hour ago, aussieinthailand said:

OK so no amnesty for the big boy's giving the orders, cool.   Now how about the self gifted amnesty the junta is enjoying for past present and future?  Should that be revoked and crimes committed be punished? 

If your talking about the actual coup.. no punishment there it was a reaction on the PTP and street violence (or at least can be defended it was for that). If you are talking for corruption and other stuff during their reign.. sure why not. 

[AGareth2]

remember this country is the land of smoke and mirrors

[Cuchulainn]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

If its an amnesty for the low footsoldiers I am all for it but if it includes the likes of Jattuporn and Thaksin I strongly disagree. 

Why? Blind sheep being led by unscrupulous corrupt gold diggers. I certainly am not .

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, Cuchulainn said:

Why? Blind sheep being led by unscrupulous corrupt gold diggers. I certainly am not .

 

I can understand those being misled and used by the self-serving leaders of the PTP not bright enough to see the problems with their actions. But I have no such feelings for those that should know and would benefit from the PTP in power and would do anything to get them there keep them there. 

[aussieinthailand]

50 minutes ago, robblok said:

If your talking about the actual coup.. no punishment there it was a reaction on the PTP and street violence (or at least can be defended it was for that). If you are talking for corruption and other stuff during their reign.. sure why not. 

Many people have suggested that Suthep, and the general were in it together and whipping up tension/violence on the streets in an attempt to legitimize the coup, and Suthep has admitted that they were working together before the coup.

As for crimes/corruption still going on should the self gifted amnesty be revoked, yes or no?

 

 

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, aussieinthailand said:

Many people have suggested that Suthep, and the general were in it together and whipping up tension/violence on the streets in an attempt to legitimize the coup, and Suthep has admitted that they were working together before the coup.

As for crimes/corruption still going on should the self gifted amnesty be revoked, yes or no?

 

 

 

so funny blame the protesters for getting killed by the redshirts I am not going to talk with anyone who thinks like that.

 

For corruption the amnesty should never apply.. so should be revoked. 

[aussieinthailand]

14 minutes ago, robblok said:

so funny blame the protesters for getting killed by the redshirts I am not going to talk with anyone who thinks like that.

 

For corruption the amnesty should never apply.. so should be revoked. 

Is it a fact that people from both side used violence??? it was in no way just one sided......! 

So yes those that used violence should be gaoled simple...

People on both sides were killed and those that did this should be gaoled and those that gave the orders also gaoled...!!!

I do think there were people/protesters used by powerful people that blocked voters and bashed them when they tried to get past them to vote, there's many video's and photo's out there of this happening on a large scale and who was the man at the head of the protesters bloking voters and bashing them? Suthep, and who was he working with?

Edited March 9, 2017 by aussieinthailand

[gamini]

4 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Can't see the General going for that one having removed a democratically elected PM by force . Maybe the only thing he would apologise about was that he felt with the benefit of hindsight he should have done it sooner.

How can you possibly use the word democratically elected in Thailand. The voters do not have a choice of the kind of policies that they would like. They basically have a choice of three political parties which have exactly the same agenda. Conservative, no taxes for the rich, no help for the poor and designed to enrich their politicians . There is no Socialist party, workers party, Green party farmers party or any others. .

[robblok]

Just now, aussieinthailand said:

I haven't blamed the protesters for getting killed at all, were in my post did I say that rob???

People on both sides were killed and those that did this should be gaoled and those that gave the orders also gaoled...!!!

I do think there were people/protesters used by powerful people that blocked voters and bashed them when they tried to get past them to vote, there's many video's and photo's out there of this happening on a large scale and who was the man at the head of the protesters bloking voters and bashing them? Suthep, and who was he working with?

Your saying that Suthep put the people on the street to get tensions.. but those tensions would never be there without the killings... do you understand what i mean. 

 

Whatever Suthep has said.. is not per se the truth.. but jail him for being at the center and then jail YL for being from the PTP and controller of the red shirts. 

 

[farcanell]

Amnesties need to be arranged, before the generals permit a new election, to cover their asses. 

[aussieinthailand]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your saying that Suthep put the people on the street to get tensions.. but those tensions would never be there without the killings... do you understand what i mean. 

 

Whatever Suthep has said.. is not per se the truth.. but jail him for being at the center and then jail YL for being from the PTP and controller of the red shirts. 

 

FACT...    Did Suthep call on people to protest?  YES.  

Did he say there will be no election and called for voting polls to be locked and blocked and to stop people from voting?  YES.

Did Suthep publicly call on people for the taking of YL and her MP's and say they should move their families s it could be dangerous? YES.  So for me NO amnesty for the powerful that gave orders.

Name one military officer or politician that has been gaoled for the 2010 murder of protesters???

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, aussieinthailand said:

FACT...    Did Suthep call on people to protest?  YES.  

Did he say there will be no election and called for voting polls to be locked and blocked and to stop people from voting?  YES.

Did Suthep publicly call on people for the taking of YL and her MP's and say they should move their families s it could be dangerous? YES.  So for me NO amnesty for the powerful that gave orders.

Name one military officer or politician that has been gaoled for the 2010 murder of protesters???

 

Your skipping a few things.. the protest and killings started before the voting. Innocent protesters and children killed by the redshirts.

 

In 2010 there were blackshirts who have now been proven in court to be red shirts.. who are under control by the shins.. have any of the shins gone to jail for the deaths of the protesters ? Same as the generals. 

[aussieinthailand]

8 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your skipping a few things.. the protest and killings started before the voting. Innocent protesters and children killed by the redshirts.

 

In 2010 there were blackshirts who have now been proven in court to be red shirts.. who are under control by the shins.. have any of the shins gone to jail for the deaths of the protesters ? Same as the generals. 

You haven't answered a single question I asked regarding Suthep...

Who gave orders to the military to use live rounds on protesters? Who was PM at the time? That would be Mark.

Did some of Suthep supporters block poling centers and some bashed people for trying to vote?

Should any of them have amnesty for any crimes ? Should the current junta have amnesty for any crimes?

 

[whatawonderfulday]

33 minutes ago, gamini said:

How can you possibly use the word democratically elected in Thailand. The voters do not have a choice of the kind of policies that they would like. They basically have a choice of three political parties which have exactly the same agenda. Conservative, no taxes for the rich, no help for the poor and designed to enrich their politicians . There is no Socialist party, workers party, Green party farmers party or any others. .

So it is democratic by your own words "they have a choice of 3 parties".  The fact that in you opinion those parties here are similar in their policies/doctrines it does not detract from the fact that they still have a choice.  Strangely to you it may seem, the major political powers also recognised that there was a democratic choice.

 

As for Green party ,  a bunch of loonies wondering around the West hoping that other people will pay attention. I agree there is no socialist party because anything resembling that was outlawed when the Communists were trying to make inroads during 70s. IMHO this country sorely needs a socialist party to help the poor but that has to be offset by what in the UK was called the loonie left who basically were /are as incompetent as the Greens.  Now if we are talking about fringe parties is there a place for the Monster Raving Looney Party here or its equivalent ? One could argue I suppose that a similar version is undemocratically governing right now.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, aussieinthailand said:

You haven't answered a single question I asked regarding Suthep...

Who gave orders to the military to use live rounds on protesters? Who was PM at the time? That would be Mark.

Did some of Suthep supporters block poling centers and some bashed people for trying to vote?

Should any of them have amnesty for any crimes ? Should the current junta have amnesty for any crimes?

 

Quite reasonable to use life rounds with blackshirts shooting at the army.. so no blame there at all. Blame the blackshirts for shooting at the army.. guess who controls the blackshirts.. YL and her bunch.  I am so really happy that its proven in court the blackshirts did not only exists but were redshirts.  Finally you can't blame the army alone.. a larger portion goes to the blackshirts and their leader.

 

Suthep supporters and Suthep for the bashing of people.. no I don't think there should be an amnesty for crimes that injure or kill others (on both sides). But your hell bent on catching suthep for something while you forget the red shirts under command of the PTP and YL killed people and you never say anything about going after the leader of the red shirts YL and PTP.. but you want to go directly after Suthep. Be fair let them both be judged the same then. (I have a huge dislike of Suthep so I am not protecting him at all.. just showing how you cant have it just one way)

[elgordo38]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

uthep.. may he go to jail and stay there.. so that is a no. Politicians convicted of crimes should go to jail not get off all the time.  If they always get off there is no reason to change.

Come back in a 100 years same same. 

[elgordo38]

Whistle Dixie.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, aussieinthailand said:

Many people have suggested that Suthep, and the general were in it together and whipping up tension/violence on the streets in an attempt to legitimize the coup, and Suthep has admitted that they were working together before the coup.

As for crimes/corruption still going on should the self gifted amnesty be revoked, yes or no?

 

 

 

 

Usually suggested by the same people who like to pretend that Thaksin didn't control Yingluck's every act and was telling the truth when he said he's never ever done anything wrong, never ever. Believe that and you'll believe anything.

 

If you were here then you'd also know that CAPO controlled by the dynamic duo of Chalerm and Tarit were doing bugger all about stopping the violence and might be said to have been encouraging violence towards those protesting against Thaksin's whitewash.

 

A fair independent justice system, a cornerstone of democracy, that dispenses justice and law enforcement to all, impartially, fairly, without bias, prejudice, favor consistently is required. But no one seems remotely interested in that. 

[Baerboxer]

26 minutes ago, aussieinthailand said:

You haven't answered a single question I asked regarding Suthep...

Who gave orders to the military to use live rounds on protesters? Who was PM at the time? That would be Mark.

Did some of Suthep supporters block poling centers and some bashed people for trying to vote?

Should any of them have amnesty for any crimes ? Should the current junta have amnesty for any crimes?

 

 

Maybe he hasn't answered a single question about Suthep because this thread is about PTP and there renewed efforts to try and get pardons rather than amnesty and so whitewash past crimes, convictions and avoid outstanding cases being brought to court. Now who do you think that might benefit the most.

 

Clue: he owns that party.

 

Now which group stated lobbing bombs, firing wildly at crowds at night, whilst the CAPO and BiB did nothing? Which group applauded wildly, including members of PTP on a platform, when a rally was told children had been murdered in one of their terrorist attacks.

 

Yeah for forgive and forget.

Edited March 9, 2017 by Baerboxer

[mick220675]

All involved in Thai politics, red, yellow and green should apologise to the public they have all failed the country.

 

Last night our village had a meeting attended by around 60 people to discus how they are going to survive. They are all in debt up to there eyes and things are getting worse. My wife tells me a few said they have weeks before the banks take there farms, there was a lot of angry people and some in tears. They are going to our local farmers bank today as a village to try and get help, but I do not think they will get anything.

 

 

[robblok]

15 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Maybe he hasn't answered a single question about Suthep because this thread is about PTP and there renewed efforts to try and get pardons rather than amnesty and so whitewash past crimes, convictions and avoid outstanding cases being brought to court. Now who do you think that might benefit the most.

 

Clue: he owns that party.

 

Now which group stated lobbing bombs, firing wildly at crowds at night, whilst the CAPO and BiB did nothing? Which group applauded wildly, including members of PTP on a platform, when a rally was told children had been murdered in one of their terrorist attacks.

 

Yeah for forgive and forget.

 

That is not exactly true.. the capo told the protesters to go home because they could not guarantee their safety.. and im quite sure secretly they had their armed wing increase their attacks. 

 

Must be nice to have a secret armed wing that does your bidding and you can deny your connected to them. Of course the only ones to believe that are the ones that support you others are not that blind. 

 

They invited the junta to have coup, they could have let the protesters have peaceful protests.. and not send their armed wing to kill them. They gave the army the perfect excuse. 

[ramrod711]

1 hour ago, aussieinthailand said:

FACT...    Did Suthep call on people to protest?  YES.  

Did he say there will be no election and called for voting polls to be locked and blocked and to stop people from voting?  YES.

Did Suthep publicly call on people for the taking of YL and her MP's and say they should move their families s it could be dangerous? YES.  So for me NO amnesty for the powerful that gave orders.

Name one military officer or politician that has been gaoled for the 2010 murder of protesters???

 

Speaking of people seeking amnesty that are guilty of inciting violence.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

46 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

That is not exactly true.. the capo told the protesters to go home because they could not guarantee their safety.. and im quite sure secretly they had their armed wing increase their attacks. 

 

Must be nice to have a secret armed wing that does your bidding and you can deny your connected to them. Of course the only ones to believe that are the ones that support you others are not that blind. 

 

They invited the junta to have coup, they could have let the protesters have peaceful protests.. and not send their armed wing to kill them. They gave the army the perfect excuse. 

 

Indeed CAPO, through that erudite voice of reason Chalerm did say that. He also promised all red shirt and Shin supporters he could guarantee their safety if they wanted to attend the "beating the war drum" meeting organized by Jat and Nat. Few actually attended so maybe they're not so blind after all.

Yingluck also warned people to go home, after falsely promising that the all Amnesty Bill versions had been killed, as she was worried about their safety, haha,