ชวด And ทวด

[boxig]

Hi,

What is the difference, if any, between ชวด and ทวด ?

And:

Can someone explain the combination of ตร in this word บุตรสาว ?

Why the ร is there and are there any similar words ?

Thank you

box

[Wanida]

Hi,

There is no difference between ชวด and ทวด. Both means great grandfather , great grand parents

พ่อหรือแม่ ของปู่ ย่า ตา ยาย

ตร in the word บุตรสาว is pronounced ด as it's a rule....any words with a ตร as a final consonant have to be pronounced ด And yes there are some similar words like โคตร สูตร มูตร เกษตร ฯลฯ

wanida

[boxig]

wanida

Thanks a lot.

I can see now why I didn't know those words with ตร. No chance to use any of them.

I have heard ทวด but never heard anyone use ชวด. Which is the one Thai people use ?

box

[Rikker]

ทวด is far more common, from my experience... I've never run across ชวด except in dictionaries, but I spend most my time in Bangkok, so maybe it's a regionalism? My wife (born and raised in Bangkok) is familiar with both ทวด and เทียด (great-great-grandparent), but she says she has never heard of either ชวด or เชียด, their supposed colloquial variants.

Incidentally, I did some short surveys in a couple of Thai high schools about familiarity with words listed as colloquialisms in the Royal Institute Dictionary, and ชวด and เชียด were on one of the word lists... of 30 kids age 14-17 in Bangkok, 12 had never heard of ชวด, 10 said they'd heard it but only rarely, and 8 said they hear it commonly. 28 had never heard of เชียด, one said they'd heard it, but rarely, and one said they heard it commonly. So there's a bit of data about familiarity among Thai youngsters (though it's not at all conclusive... the kids may have misunderstood the directions, for all I know, and the sample ideally would be much larger).

[Neeranam]

Is ทวด Greatgrandfather and grandmother?

Can I say 'tuad yai' for grandmother?

[Rikker]

Good question... I'm not sure what is the common way to specify which ทวด, since it applies to all eight great-grandparents one has.

[In the Rai!]

Good question... I'm not sure what is the common way to specify which ทวด, since it applies to all eight great-grandparents one has.

It goes ยายทวด or ตาทวด rather than the other way around and it can be used for all 8 involved. I have never heard of ชวด (not that thats saying alot )

but I am pretty sure its not regional unless it is a southern word.

ITR

[Rikker]

Thanks, ITR, now that you mention it, I've heard (and probably used) ยายทวด, ตาทวด etc., but forgot from infrequent use.

If ชวด were regional I would think RID would list it as such, but they say it's colloquial not regional, so I'm guessing it's just an archaic colloquialism that still floats around in dictionaries... ชวด is given as colloquial in RID 1950, and they seem to very rarely take a word out of their dictionary once it's in. Needless to say, the first time I actually hear someone say it I'll be very interested!

[In the Rai!]

Thanks, ITR, now that you mention it, I've heard (and probably used) ยายทวด, ตาทวด etc., but forgot from infrequent use.

If ชวด were regional I would think RID would list it as such, but they say it's colloquial not regional, so I'm guessing it's just an archaic colloquialism that still floats around in dictionaries... ชวด is given as colloquial in RID 1950, and they seem to very rarely take a word out of their dictionary once it's in. Needless to say, the first time I actually hear someone say it I'll be very interested!

Like alot of words, I will probably hear it quite often now after never hearing it before....