Managing retirement income

[smotherb]

5 hours ago, fletchsmile said:

Totally agree with all the above. Particularly the exchange rate, liquidity and tax risks.

 

I like to have some property exposure for diversification though. The main ways I do this are:

 

1. Own a place here. Mainly for nesting rather than investing. It's nice to have. Fixes your costs and eliminates some exchange risk

 

2. Real estate investment trusts (REITs) shares. Worth googling. Rather than having say two or three properties and concentration risk and other hassles, you effectively own very much smaller %s of significantly more properties. Similar to mutual funds or unit trusts in some ways. The yields are attractive. The Singapore portfolio I have earns me just over 7% tax free in SGD dividend income ad I can sell any time. Capital is not guaranteed though. Probably best also to stay away from US REITs and US based ETFs for tax/admin reasons. 

 

3. TMB Property Income Fund is a unit trust you can buy through Thailand. The charges are higher than buying the REITs yourself, but managed by professionals. It focuses mainly on Thailand and Singapore REITs. In return for higher charges you have a professional fund manager making the choices, and spreading your risk. A much easier place to start than assessing individual REIT shares

 

Wouldn't want the last 2 to be my only income sources, but they add nice diversification based on property. Then add some equities and bonds based exposures

 

Cheers

Fletch :)

 

 

I agree with investment diversification. However, I am set against paying for property I cannot own or leave to my family--I am not married to a Thai and have no Thai children--so buying property in Thailand is not part of the equation. Even condos are a miss; I have seen far too many farangs stuck with a condo they cannot sell ,except at a great loss, and are not happy owning. Of course, I have no intention of Thailand being my final stop. I do not mind rented housing; especially since I move around frequently--no taxes, no insurance, no repairs, no lasting problems with neighbors--if the landlord causes problems, go elsewhere. I have property where I can own it, can leave it to my family, and can sell it at a fair market price.

[seancbk]

On 3/10/2017 at 7:57 AM, meatboy said:

with all the wealth he says he has,and he wants to KNOW if 18,000gbp.will be enough [850,000bht] a month,

that should be enough for you,wife,wife's family and all the rest of your extended relatives.

your not trying to take the p--s are you.

Erm.... no.    I think you'll find he said 1800 GBP per month at 57.     Not 18,000 GBP.   

"I'm not sure if £1800 per month is going to be enough at age 57. I know £3k per month will be ok at 65 but I really want to enjoy Thailand before we both get too old."

 

[MahasarakhamMitch]

great idea if you have not been divorced by that time  and lost all of your assets 

I hope not. We've been married for 20 years and all appears ok
Fingers crossed ?

[MahasarakhamMitch]

I am in a very similar situation. 58yrs old with £500k UK property, small current pension, Thai wife and planning to retire in Thailand next year. But I don't have the extra rental property. I certainly think it will be possible for you to make the move now rather than waiting, but have an alternative suggestion on the strategy. I would rent out the £500k property and sell the £200k property.
 
I agree with the other posters about the hazards of remote letting, and you will be walking right into this problem if you split the £500k property into two £750k/m properties. Assuming your £500k property is in a good location and condition you will attract a 'higher quality' of tenant paying around £1300-£1600/m and greatly reduce the risk of problems. If you sell the £200k property and invest it with a broker you will be able to use the returns to top up your rental income pending state pension age, and enable you to purchase medical insurance or simply pay the cost if the need arises. You may have to eat it into a bit depending the standard of living that you want in these intervening years, but you will still be in a very strong position at 66.  
 
I also agree with the posters who suggested you don't need to retain a 'bolt hole' because you would be able to use the £500k property to rent accommodation in the UK if you did ever need to return. Regarding the general strategy of retaining and renting out your property, I personally believe that in the current climate this is the right way to go, rather than selling up and investing cash funds. Despite Brexit, it is in my view a reasonably safe bet that UK property prices will continue to increase at 3%+ pa for the foreseeable future and this combined with a potential 3%-5% net rental return is hard to beat. As other posters have pointed out you will be exposed to exchange rate fluctuations with this route but it a case of balancing out the risk reward ratios of all the options, and it is  unlikely that the rate will fall sufficiently to offset the gains from retaining your UK property.

The main house is in Marlow in Buckinghamshire which is a nice area. Rent is approx £1400-£2000 a month. The house was completely refurbished 2 years ago.

It is interesting what you say about not retaining a bolt hole. I was chatting to a retired English guy at the thai temple in Oxford today and her said that keeping a flat, and car in the uk is surprisingly expensive with council tax, car insurance etc

[berybert]

9 hours ago, smotherb said:

I am always amused by those who think a couple of thousand dollars a month is plenty. You have to remember, the brunt of his income comes from rentals. I have been an absentee landlord since 1974 and have very nice 3 and 2bdr/2bth units in good neighborhoods. You need someone trustworthy to manage the properties--and professionals want 15-20% or more of the rent each month plus they don't always do the best job; e.g., had a rental place just around the corner from the rental management office, yet there were three families living in my house and tearing it up. Renters are often delinquent with the rent and do damage to your unit far greater than a deposit will cover. What happens to his 1800 quid a month income if one of the renters fails to pay? For you math challenged yahoos, that's 750 quid less that month. I am not sure, but would imagine the UK is quite similar to the US in evicting a non-paying tenant--in Florida it takes 90 days and court and county police costs (over $120) to evict; and more to pay the rental management company to process the eviction in court. So that is three months without rent, 2250 quid plus another 100 quid for costs, plus another fee to the rental management company, unless you go back and spend even more money to process the eviction. Renters can cause major damages to walls, floors, carpets, doors, windows, appliances, toilets and sinks and everything breaks or wears-out. Someday, the roof will need repair or replacement; that is a major cost--I just had to pay $15,000 to replace one. And, all this is if you do not have a mortgage.  Of course, repairs, taxes and insurance are the major costs, even without mortgage.

I rent my place out with a guaranteed rent scheme. No missed payments even if the house is empty.

I get a little under what I would get if I let it out privately but I don't have to pay any management fee's so it works out pretty well that I get the same as if I was renting privately.

So the problems you have are not likely to affect me. Sure one day the roof might need replacing but having bad tenants or good tenants is very unlikely to affect when that will need to happen.

[berybert]

I went to live in Thailand 3 1/2 years ago I let me house out as I mention in the post above. After 2 years I got bored and decided to go home.

I had an option to have my house back within 3 months of giving the letting agency notice.

In the 2 years I was away the value of my house rose by somewhere in the region of £50,000 and since I have been back it has risen by around another £30,000. So that's £80,000 increase in the value of the property, or I could have sold it and got a couple of grand interest  from the bank.

I shall be moving back to Thailand shortly and giving it another go.

Shall I sell up, I don't think so.

 

[catman20]

9 hours ago, MahasarakhamMitch said:

 

I hope not. We've been married for 20 years and all appears ok
Fingers crossed ?

 

good luck to you mate i wish you and your wife well for your future.

[smotherb]

10 hours ago, berybert said:

I rent my place out with a guaranteed rent scheme. No missed payments even if the house is empty.

I get a little under what I would get if I let it out privately but I don't have to pay any management fee's so it works out pretty well that I get the same as if I was renting privately.

So the problems you have are not likely to affect me. Sure one day the roof might need replacing but having bad tenants or good tenants is very unlikely to affect when that will need to happen.

Okay, good luck

[Jim P]

Im hoping to retire to Thailand in the next year, I will be 55 years old. I have a property in London with a rental income of £1,500pm, there is a mortgage but its only £40pm  (£300k of equity currently)  a pension income of £14k pa and a lump sum of 100k. Before I leave I will have to pay off a few things which will leave me with 75k left of my lump sum, my only high ticket purchase in Thailand will be a vehicle, Im thinking in the region of 10k for that.

 

Im hoping to rent in Thailand up to £500-600pm. I want to keep my place in London as it will be managed by family and a very reliable tenant. I will have the state pension kick in currently at 67 and although we dont like to think these things a sizeable inheritance is likely at sometime from my mother who is in her 80s now.

 

I like to party and will probably find myself concentrated in more expensive expat areas. Im still worried this may not be enough, any thoughts? My youngest brother got ill a few years ago and within months was gone, its changed my life and made me realise how fragile it is. I dont want to hang out working until Im 60 and have regrets, which I can do if I so choose and have more money and more pension income.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Jim P

[Grubster]

28 minutes ago, Jim P said:

Im hoping to retire to Thailand in the next year, I will be 55 years old. I have a property in London with a rental income of £1,500pm, there is a mortgage but its only £40pm  (£300k of equity currently)  a pension income of £14k pa and a lump sum of 100k. Before I leave I will have to pay off a few things which will leave me with 75k left of my lump sum, my only high ticket purchase in Thailand will be a vehicle, Im thinking in the region of 10k for that.

 

Im hoping to rent in Thailand up to £500-600pm. I want to keep my place in London as it will be managed by family and a very reliable tenant. I will have the state pension kick in currently at 67 and although we dont like to think these things a sizeable inheritance is likely at sometime from my mother who is in her 80s now.

 

I like to party and will probably find myself concentrated in more expensive expat areas. Im still worried this may not be enough, any thoughts? My youngest brother got ill a few years ago and within months was gone, its changed my life and made me realise how fragile it is. I dont want to hang out working until Im 60 and have regrets, which I can do if I so choose and have more money and more pension income.

I think it is a great idea and you will be fine on that amount. You will also have that back up money to cover any illness or accident that may happen here. Just rent small and cheap till you are sure where in Thailand you want to be.  Remember you can always visit the wilder places from a much more peaceful place where rents are much cheaper.    Good luck

[seancbk]

32 minutes ago, Jim P said:

Im hoping to retire to Thailand in the next year, I will be 55 years old. I have a property in London with a rental income of £1,500pm, there is a mortgage but its only £40pm  (£300k of equity currently)  a pension income of £14k pa and a lump sum of 100k. Before I leave I will have to pay off a few things which will leave me with 75k left of my lump sum, my only high ticket purchase in Thailand will be a vehicle, Im thinking in the region of 10k for that.

 

Im hoping to rent in Thailand up to £500-600pm. I want to keep my place in London as it will be managed by family and a very reliable tenant. I will have the state pension kick in currently at 67 and although we dont like to think these things a sizeable inheritance is likely at sometime from my mother who is in her 80s now.

 

I like to party and will probably find myself concentrated in more expensive expat areas. Im still worried this may not be enough, any thoughts? My youngest brother got ill a few years ago and within months was gone, its changed my life and made me realise how fragile it is. I dont want to hang out working until Im 60 and have regrets, which I can do if I so choose and have more money and more pension income.

 

This is a 'how long is a piece of string' type question.

My first question would be how long have you previously spent in Bangkok?

I reckon the absolute minimum to have a half decent life in Bangkok is 60,000 THB a month and then for every extra 10,000 THB you add life gets noticeably better.  

If you have between 80,000 THB and 100,000 THB to spend per month then life should be pretty good.   You won't be living like a king but you will be able to enjoy life without worrying too much.   

Bringing in 1300 GBP a month is around 56,000 THB (today's rate).   That is just below my minimum level, and unfortunately you are also at the mercy of the exchange rate.

I'm not sure why you'd want to buy a car in Bangkok, personally I'd save your money.

12 years until your pension kicks in is a long time.... 

None of us really know how long we have but it's good to have a longterm plan. 

Nothing wrong with part of that plan being an inheritance.   
 

 

[seancbk]

11 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I think it is a great idea and you will be fine on that amount. You will also have that back up money to cover any illness or accident that may happen here. Just rent small and cheap till you are sure where in Thailand you want to be.  Remember you can always visit the wilder places from a much more peaceful place where rents are much cheaper.    Good luck

 

Good advice.
 

I forgot to say, for the first year at least rent small and cheap until you know where in Bangkok you want to live.   

Biggest mistake I made when I first arrived 8 years ago was renting a 40,000 baht, 2 bedroom place, just for me.   

 

[Jim P]

16 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I think it is a great idea and you will be fine on that amount. You will also have that back up money to cover any illness or accident that may happen here. Just rent small and cheap till you are sure where in Thailand you want to be.  Remember you can always visit the wilder places from a much more peaceful place where rents are much cheaper.    Good luck

Thanks Grubster., yes that back up money is for unexpected things or to top up if i overspend at anytime. I figure it should last me in the region of 8 - 10 years. By that time Im 63-65 and can sell up in London that should keep me going and the state pension will be just around the corner by then and also my pension is indexed linked. 

 

I agree with the rental location, most likely a few miles away, the cheaper rental will make up for the taxi fares on nights out. But security worries me, the managed apartments with safes seem to be concentrated in the expensive areas. By the way Koh Samui is my initial destination, Lamai or Chewang, preferably Lamai.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

This is a 'how long is a piece of string' type question.

My first question would be how long have you previously spent in Bangkok?

I reckon the absolute minimum to have a half decent life in Bangkok is 60,000 THB a month and then for every extra 10,000 THB you add life gets noticeably better.  

If you have between 80,000 THB and 100,000 THB to spend per month then life should be pretty good.   You won't be living like a king but you will be able to enjoy life without worrying too much.   

Bringing in 1300 GBP a month is around 56,000 THB (today's rate).   That is just below my minimum level, and unfortunately you are also at the mercy of the exchange rate.

I'm not sure why you'd want to buy a car in Bangkok, personally I'd save your money.

12 years until your pension kicks in is a long time.... 

None of us really know how long we have but it's good to have a longterm plan. 

Nothing wrong with part of that plan being an inheritance.   
 

 

Sean I wont be in Bangkok, hence buying a car, If I was in Bangkok I sure wouldn't. I was saying my state pension kicks in 12 years but I currently have 14k indexed linked pension now and £1500 pm rental income (300k equity) and 75k in the bank. I hope to have more than 100,000 thb per month right now which if necessary I could top up. From what you have said I should be ok with that.

[Jim P]

11 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Good advice.
 

I forgot to say, for the first year at least rent small and cheap until you know where in Bangkok you want to live.   

Biggest mistake I made when I first arrived 8 years ago was renting a 40,000 baht, 2 bedroom place, just for me.   

 

Agree, I will only be looking at one bed places with a good kitchen and bathroom. Im hoping to negotiate 6 months rentals at a time to get the best deal.

[seancbk]

19 minutes ago, Jim P said:

Thanks Grubster., yes that back up money is for unexpected things or to top up if i overspend at anytime. I figure it should last me in the region of 8 - 10 years. By that time Im 63-65 and can sell up in London that should keep me going and the state pension will be just around the corner by then and also my pension is indexed linked. 

 

I agree with the rental location, most likely a few miles away, the cheaper rental will make up for the taxi fares on nights out. But security worries me, the managed apartments with safes seem to be concentrated in the expensive areas. By the way Koh Samui is my initial destination, Lamai or Chewang, preferably Lamai.

 

 

 

Sean I wont be in Bangkok, hence buying a car, If I was in Bangkok I sure wouldn't. I was saying my state pension kicks in 12 years but I currently have 14k indexed linked pension now and £1500 pm rental income (300k equity) and 75k in the bank. I hope to have more than 100,000 thb per month right now which if necessary I could top up. From what you have said I should be ok with that.

Apologies, I thought when you said "I like to party and will probably find myself concentrated in more expensive expat areas."   I thought you were referring to Bangkok.
 

I've never been to Koh Samui so cannot offer any advice about costs etc.     
 

[Grubster]

23 minutes ago, Jim P said:

Thanks Grubster., yes that back up money is for unexpected things or to top up if i overspend at anytime. I figure it should last me in the region of 8 - 10 years. By that time Im 63-65 and can sell up in London that should keep me going and the state pension will be just around the corner by then and also my pension is indexed linked. 

 

I agree with the rental location, most likely a few miles away, the cheaper rental will make up for the taxi fares on nights out. But security worries me, the managed apartments with safes seem to be concentrated in the expensive areas. By the way Koh Samui is my initial destination, Lamai or Chewang, preferably Lamai.

 

 

 

Sean I wont be in Bangkok, hence buying a car, If I was in Bangkok I sure wouldn't. I was saying my state pension kicks in 12 years but I currently have 14k indexed linked pension now and £1500 pm rental income (300k equity) and 75k in the bank. I hope to have more than 100,000 thb per month right now which if necessary I could top up. From what you have said I should be ok with that.

I don't know if you need a car on the island but I've never been there either.  Used cars are very pricey here and you will be disappointed about that I'm sure. Old junk cars are 100,000 baht. Honda PCX 150 is probably the most popular bike here for expats. About 80,000 baht new but I have seen good deals on those used by expats.

[khunPer]

2 hours ago, Jim P said:

Im hoping to retire to Thailand in the next year, I will be 55 years old. I have a property in London with a rental income of £1,500pm, there is a mortgage but its only £40pm  (£300k of equity currently)  a pension income of £14k pa and a lump sum of 100k. Before I leave I will have to pay off a few things which will leave me with 75k left of my lump sum, my only high ticket purchase in Thailand will be a vehicle, Im thinking in the region of 10k for that.

 

Im hoping to rent in Thailand up to £500-600pm. I want to keep my place in London as it will be managed by family and a very reliable tenant. I will have the state pension kick in currently at 67 and although we dont like to think these things a sizeable inheritance is likely at sometime from my mother who is in her 80s now.

 

I like to party and will probably find myself concentrated in more expensive expat areas. Im still worried this may not be enough, any thoughts? My youngest brother got ill a few years ago and within months was gone, its changed my life and made me realise how fragile it is. I dont want to hang out working until Im 60 and have regrets, which I can do if I so choose and have more money and more pension income.

About 60,000 baht/month in rental income (eventually minus some expenses) plus 600,000 baht/year in pension, i.e. 50,000 baht/month, plus a back-up of £75k, of which some shall be used for car, and some for 800k retirement deposit, and some for "rainy day" emergency cash-account, should in all give you a comfortable life in Thailand, if you have "normal" life-style – it's always little rubber-band like, depending of priorities.

 

I would say: "Do it" – and I say that, because I did myself when I turned 56, based on "when is enough, enough" – wise words from the late king Bhumibol – and "what is it worth saving up a lot of money to when one get old, if one is to old to have fun and old all that nice money"; i.e. similar thoughts like yours. My budget was around 1 million baht/year; i.e. only some 80,000-85,000 baht/month – not including the extra for buying a car, and extra stuff for rented place (bungalow) etc. – little more than 10-years ago, and I had enough for my kind of life-style. Prices has increased a little, but in average not that much, so 100,000 baht/month will be quite equal,. I'm also outgoing (party-party), and staying at Koh Samui is not considered the cheapest area, but I'm not a heavy drinker. If you have regular high spending at venues and seek paid company, you can easily spend more than your monthly allowance – can be a question of some month are more active than others, or just use a bit of the savings before it's too late – from my own experience: 150,000 baht/month is no problem at all to get rid of...

Edited March 13, 2017 by khunPer

[rickudon]

Concerning the Original poster, Cost of living in Mahasarakham would be similar to Udon Thani. I live on 40-50,000 baht a month for everything (except medical). I have a wife and daughter. You will need 40,000 baht a month income to get a visa extension if married, or 400,000 baht in the bank in Thailand.

 

First thing is do you have relatives in the UK with whom you could stay temporarily, or use as a mailing address? It is important to maintain an address in the UK if you are still going to do UK banking and other official stuff. Some banks will allow overseas addresses, others might not. As my Uk address is a relative who lives in London, i don't have any UK expenses and do not need a car usually as good transport links. Also when old enough get bus pass ......

 

Given that you have a future pension to come, you could just sell up at least some of the property and bank/invest about 250,000 GBP as a drawdown fund, which should get you through to 65 easy. At a very conservative 3% interest, along with the small current pension, you would have nearly enough  to live on without touching the principle. If you had 500,000 GBP, you would have an income of at least 18000 GBP a year - quite sufficient for most purposes without touching the capital. Depends if you want the hassle of managing your UK properties and make more money, or if you want a worry free retirement ......

[Jim P]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

I don't know if you need a car on the island but I've never been there either.  Used cars are very pricey here and you will be disappointed about that I'm sure. Old junk cars are 100,000 baht. Honda PCX 150 is probably the most popular bike here for expats. About 80,000 baht new but I have seen good deals on those used by expats.

I think I will definitely need a vehicle, most likely a 4x4 as I intend taking trips around the country, I will not be getting on a bike, I have already got that T shirt!

 

1 hour ago, khunPer said:

About 60,000 baht/month in rental income (eventually minus some expenses) plus 600,000 baht/year in pension, i.e. 50,000 baht/month, plus a back-up of £75k, of which some shall be used for car, and some for 800k retirement deposit, and some for "rainy day" emergency cash-account, should in all give you a comfortable life in Thailand, if you have "normal" life-style – it's always little rubber-band like, depending of priorities.

 

I would say: "Do it" – and I say that, because I did myself when I turned 56, based on "when is enough, enough" – wise words from the late king Bhumibol – and "what is it worth saving up a lot of money to when one get old, if one is to old to have fun and old all that nice money"; i.e. similar thoughts like yours. My budget was around 1 million baht/year; i.e. only some 80,000-85,000 baht/month – not including the extra for buying a car, and extra stuff for rented place (bungalow) etc. – little more than 10-years ago, and I had enough for my kind of life-style. Prices has increased a little, but in average not that much, so 100,000 baht/month will be quite equal,. I'm also outgoing (party-party), and staying at Koh Samui is not considered the cheapest area, but I'm not a heavy drinker. If you have regular high spending at venues and seek paid company, you can easily spend more than your monthly allowance – can be a question of some month are more active than others, or just use a bit of the savings before it's too late – from my own experience: 150,000 baht/month is no problem at all to get rid of...

Cool, it sounds like me and the OP are in a position to go for it, I hope I haven't hijacked his thread but rather than start a new one I figured we both had the same aspirations and somewhat similar circumstances so I jumped on board here.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Jim P

[Jim P]

On 09/03/2017 at 6:46 PM, MahasarakhamMitch said:

Hi guys and gals

I would like to retire to Thailand in the next 15 years. My missus has a couple of plots of land and a house in Maha Sarakham (which I like but I doubt that I could live permanently).

We have a mortgage free house with a current value of about £500k. We have a rental property which is worth about £200k

When the time comes I'm thinking we would sell the main house and buy 2 smaller homes for £250k each. We would have our other rental property so that leave us with 1 house as a bolt hole in the UK. And 2 rental uk houses bringing in about £1500 after taxes, fees and repair fund.

My first pension at 57 is small - only £75 per week. Our second pension matures at age 65 at £300 per week.

I'm not sure if £1800 per month is going to be enough at age 57. I know £3k per month will be ok at 65 but I really want to enjoy Thailand before we both get too old.

What would you guys do?

How easy is it to manage rentals from abroad?

Any thoughts kindly appreciated

How old are you now Mitch?

 

Here is my view for whats its worth as I haven't made the move myself but I have been a UK landlord in the past. I wouldn't split one 500k property into two smaller ones with a value of 250k each, thats going to cost you 25k just in stamp duty alone. Your maintenance bill will most likely be bigger and you will be paying agents 10-15% per property to have to have them fully managed.Of course your chances of getting a bad tenant have also increased. If you have to sell I think buying one rental and investing half might be a better solution, interest rates for investors cannot get any lower than they are now and as suggested by others there are numerous investment vehicles depending on your appetite for risk. Of course your incomes have to be taken into account too, whatever is over £11500 will be subject to at least 20% tax.

 

For myself who is shortly to make the move the exchange rate has been a blow but Im hoping over the next few years for some recovery and maybe in 10 years to sell my place if interest rates are higher and invest a large portion of it for additional income. Whatever you do good luck, I know Im a little nervous because for me if I retire theirs no going back to my job.

[berybert]

5 hours ago, Grubster said:

I think it is a great idea and you will be fine on that amount. You will also have that back up money to cover any illness or accident that may happen here. Just rent small and cheap till you are sure where in Thailand you want to be.  Remember you can always visit the wilder places from a much more peaceful place where rents are much cheaper.    Good luck

I don't agree with the rent cheap idea, reason being if you rent cheap the chances are you wont be renting a very nice place. Coming home to a depressing home isn't going to help you like the place you are living.

I had a 3 week holiday in January and really didn't enjoy it as much as I would have liked because I wasn't over keen on where I was staying.

[seancbk]

When I first moved to Bangkok (from Hong Kong), I rented a 2 bedroom place for 40,000 baht a month in On Nut (1 km walk from the BTS), in a nice building but with a crappy pool and no gym.

After the first year I moved into a studio room closer to town (Sukhumvit soi 22).  It was 8000 a month and although super convenient for the bars on 22, the place itself was a crap hole (but it was cheap).

After almost 2 years there a friend told me there was a unit in his building, so I went to see it.    

The building is right next to a BTS station on the Sukhumvit line, studio room but with a great kitchen in a seperate room (not some crappy on the balcony thing), nice bathroom with proper glass shower enclosure.  
To make it even better the unit is on the pool and gym level, not only is the pool really nice, but I look out at it from my kitchen windows.   Takes me 30 secs to walk out to the pool or the gym.  
It's a condo, not an apartment, and my Thai Chinese Landlady had furnished it nicely, but hadn't put in a sofa (yet).  When I asked about a sofa she said "go buy one, budget 50,000"  I got myself the sofa I wanted from Ikea and billed her the 17,000 I paid.   
I signed a one year lease at 8000 a month.   5 years later my rent hasn't changed and even though I could easily afford a bigger place (this one is 34 sq/m), I don't need more space and I don't need to spend double or triple to have somewhere nice as this place is already great.   

My point is that in Bangkok there are gems to be found.   Rent anywhere for the first 6 months, then use that time to search for your own gem of a place, when you find it move.   

Of course this probably only applies to Bangkok.

 

[fletchsmile]

On 3/11/2017 at 4:22 PM, bazza73 said:

Sorry, can't agree, for the following reasons:

 

I've rented in a condo for the last 8 years. My rent hasn't increased in that time -in fact it has decreased because I'm a reliable tenant. My landlord keeps asking me if I want to buy the unit - why would I want his headaches with the body corporate and majority Thai ownership?

 

If I was going to own property, I would own it outright. REIT's and property funds in Australia during the GFC proved to be one of the biggest shark pools around. If the managers weren't ripping out huge management fees, they were borrowing investor money for their own business ventures. Over 90% went under. While I don't know anything about Thai and Singapore funds, it's a reasonable proposition not to invest in anything you don't understand.

The world would be a dull place if we all agreed :)

 

I guess our family situations are different. We've lived in our condo now for nearly 10 years. It's nice to think of all the rent saved, and that we have something to show for all the money that we would have otherwise paid away as rent. To buy it or something similar now would also cost somewhere around 20% to 60% more than it did back then. In THB terms (much more in GBP terms). It's very nice to know the (Thai) wife and kids have a roof over their heads if something happens to me. I leave them an asset, continuity and security. On the other hand leaving a rental contact just leaves a liability until the end of the contract and uncertainty as to what happens next. Would hate to think of that additional worry for them at an already difficult time if something happened to me.

 

For fixing costs, I was referring more to exchange rates and risk mentioned. If OP leaves all his money overseas and rents, as others have suggested, he needs to consider the GBP/THB rate. It's lost ball park around 40% in the last 10 years. From 70-ish to 42/3-ish. That's a massive hit for a pensioner funding his living in Thailand. That risk continues to be very real if you fund Thai living off GBP and only rent. What would he do in a similar situation?

 

As you raise it though, (rental) inflation risk has been very benign in the last few years. Rentals may have held steady or even fallen. What would OP do if inflation in Thailand does take off say 5-10 years from now, interest rates rise, and landlords seek higher rentals as a result. If it doesn't happen no problem as you say, maybe they'll fall. But it's the risks and adverse consequences people need to anticipate. Planning for/ relying on no rent increase or falling rents is inviting problems

 

On the investment side, makes sense to stay away if you don't understand, hence googling and research. The property we own is also worth more than any property investments combined. It's not either or for us though. BTW Individual Australian REITs aren't attractive to me either. Tax-wise and admin messy for a UK foreigner.  Don't much like individual Thai REITs either for their lack of transparency. I do like Singapore REITs though as part of a wider strategy, and I do my research and understand them as you say.

 

Cheers

Fletch :)

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by fletchsmile

[bazza73]

2 minutes ago, fletchsmile said:

The world would be a dull place if we all agreed :)

 

I guess our family situations are different. We've lived in our condo now for nearly 10 years. It's nice to think of all the rent saved, and that we have something to show for all the money that we would have otherwise paid away as rent. To buy it or something similar would also cost somewhere around 20% to 60% more than it did back then. It's very nice to know the (Thai) wife and kids have a roof over their heads if something happens to me. I leave them an asset and security. On the other hand leaving a rental contact just leaves a liability until the end of the contract and uncertainty as to what happens next. 

 

For fixing costs, I was referring more to exchange rates and risk mentioned. If OP leaves all his money overseas and rents, as others have suggested, he needs to consider the GBP/THB rate. It's lost ball park around 40% in the last 10 years. From 70-ish to 42-ish. That's a massive hit for a pensioner funding his living in Thailand. That risk continues to be very real if you fund Thai living off GBP and only rent. What would he do in a similar situation?

 

As you raise it though, (rental) inflation risk has been very benign in the last few years. Rentals may have held steady or even fallen. What would OP do if inflation in Thailand does take off say 5-10 years from now, interest rates rise, and landlords seek higher rentals as a result. If it doesn't happen no problem as you say, maybe they'll fall. But it's the risks and adverse consequences people need to anticipate. Planning for/ relying no rent increase or falling rents is inviting problems

 

On the investment side, makes sense to stay away if you don't understand, which is why I suggested googling and research. The property we own is also worth more than any property investments combined. It's not either or for us though. BTW Individual Australian REITs aren't attractive to me either. Tax-wise and admin messy for a UK foreigner.  Don't much like individual Thai REITs either for their lack of transparency. I do like Singapore REITs though as part of a wider strategy, and I do my research and understand them as you say.

 

Cheers

Fletch :)

 

It's nice to have a courteous discussion on TV without aggro.

 

My circumstances are different; the Australian dollar exchange rate with the baht has held up pretty well. There is such a glut of apartments in Chiang Mai the landlords are desperate for good tenants. If push came to shove, I could move out to San Kamphaeng and rent an air-conditioned flat with free WiFi for 4000 baht a month. If inflation takes off in the next 5-10 years in Thailand, my guess is the Australian pension (indexed) and the exchange rate will still hold. Obviously, Brexit has hammered the UK retiree here.

 

Living in Bangkok has no appeal for me - too hot, too expensive, too many people.  I suppose that's where COL increases will hit first.

 

If I was living and renting in Australia( in a dungeon) , one weeks' rental there is the same as a months' worth here. So it would take a fairly drastic rental increase to make me feel uncomfortable. At age 73, I doubt if I'll live long enough to see it.

 

Liked your post.

 

Cheers,

 

bazza73

 

 

[roger101]

On 3/10/2017 at 10:04 AM, alfieconn said:

Good yield's,  probably averaging average 4-5 % rental yield p/a and capital appreciation 5-10% p/a over the last 20 year's.(Obviously this can't be a  guarantee  for the future)

Not if your in the lower tax bracket

rubbish

Where has the Op said that all his properties are local.

 

Everyone is exposed to exchange rate change unless their investments are in Thai baht, i take it your investments are not in Thai baht ?.

 

Easy, OP just has to make sure he has Medical Insurance.

 

 

For Op, be wary of advise from people who have sold up in the UK over the last 20 year's.

 

 

 

With reference to the medical insurance. If you insure with BUPA before you are 60 they will cover you for ever. Providing you have enough money to pay the premiums.

 

 

[Naam]

On 3/10/2017 at 1:46 AM, MahasarakhamMitch said:

I would like to retire to Thailand in the next 15 years.

that means any questions you ask and any answers you get today are most probably irrelevant for the time that far in the future.

[Gary A]

Rental properties sound good but there can be a lot of problems. I know first hand. In the US, it is nearly impossible to get deadbeat tenants out. I once turned off the water in a rental and nearly went to jail. Another was rented to a single woman with children.  She got fired from a very good job and she never paid rent after that. Then you have the destructive tenants. Just try to collect damages from a deadbeat even if you are able to get them out. Another was a country home. They clogged up the septic tank and actually cut a hole in the bathroom floor and used it for a toilet.  I rented out a forty acre farm to a sharecropper. I never got a penny from him. Being a landlord simply has too many risks.

[MahasarakhamMitch]

How old are you now Mitch?
 
Here is my view for whats its worth as I haven't made the move myself but I have been a UK landlord in the past. I wouldn't split one 500k property into two smaller ones with a value of 250k each, thats going to cost you 25k just in stamp duty alone. Your maintenance bill will most likely be bigger and you will be paying agents 10-15% per property to have to have them fully managed.Of course your chances of getting a bad tenant have also increased. If you have to sell I think buying one rental and investing half might be a better solution, interest rates for investors cannot get any lower than they are now and as suggested by others there are numerous investment vehicles depending on your appetite for risk. Of course your incomes have to be taken into account too, whatever is over £11500 will be subject to at least 20% tax.
 
For myself who is shortly to make the move the exchange rate has been a blow but Im hoping over the next few years for some recovery and maybe in 10 years to sell my place if interest rates are higher and invest a large portion of it for additional income. Whatever you do good luck, I know Im a little nervous because for me if I retire theirs no going back to my job.

I'm 44 years old

[finnishmen]

I öliving in maha sarakham and first 2 year in apartement near centrum river buss station side, near university, 3500 bht/month new apartement, not expensive live, but wery little rooms, then i rent house 7000 bht/month and live good, and found good coverment office worker and marry and nor not go money lot living and house 5555, but build lot new go money maak. yesteday make ready water tank and pump systems, about 9000 bht go, and today ewening come 2000 floor tiles need adding to new build floor. expensive or not ,but i like live sarakham country side, not city. but proplem have no have all parts and hardware what need, no have acryl sheet anywere,aluminium sheet or profile,mechanic,motors,elektronik components, TIG welding spare parts i no found anywere. ovemn no have, home pro have double expensive than thai watsadu same parts, i no go home pro newer, cheap live about if no build, go about 500 euro/month only. about 20 000 bht can live good. my pension salary have about 1000€/ month but 51% stay save ewery month, now go lot more i build new rooms and new kitchen europa style all, i has made all elektric to home itself europe parts and style, im elektricien engineering certificed builder, and mechanical engineering too and my hobby have  small elektronik,automation,arduino code, many, now i have new hobby 3D printer but filament no know were can buy. i has orden at lazada lto parts but no have all what need, acryl sheet,other plastic sheet,aluminuim sheet, components, motors, robot parts, etc.if somebody know and can help tell  me.

[seancbk]

15 hours ago, finnishmen said:

I öliving in maha sarakham and first 2 year in apartement near centrum river buss station side, near university, 3500 bht/month new apartement, not expensive live, but wery little rooms, then i rent house 7000 bht/month and live good, and found good coverment office worker and marry and nor not go money lot living and house 5555, but build lot new go money maak. yesteday make ready water tank and pump systems, about 9000 bht go, and today ewening come 2000 floor tiles need adding to new build floor. expensive or not ,but i like live sarakham country side, not city. but proplem have no have all parts and hardware what need, no have acryl sheet anywere,aluminium sheet or profile,mechanic,motors,elektronik components, TIG welding spare parts i no found anywere. ovemn no have, home pro have double expensive than thai watsadu same parts, i no go home pro newer, cheap live about if no build, go about 500 euro/month only. about 20 000 bht can live good. my pension salary have about 1000€/ month but 51% stay save ewery month, now go lot more i build new rooms and new kitchen europa style all, i has made all elektric to home itself europe parts and style, im elektricien engineering certificed builder, and mechanical engineering too and my hobby have  small elektronik,automation,arduino code, many, now i have new hobby 3D printer but filament no know were can buy. i has orden at lazada lto parts but no have all what need, acryl sheet,other plastic sheet,aluminuim sheet, components, motors, robot parts, etc.if somebody know and can help tell  me.

 

http://www.print3dd.com/print3dd-com-3d-printer-shop-in-thailand/