Retirement Extension for US citizens

[smotherb]

The Short Story:

 

US Embassy notarized letters of income will no longer be accepted as proof of income. US Citizens must now show deposit of B800k in a Thai Bank; and to be sure our papers were all in order, we needed to come to immigration 45 days before the extension expired each year.  We were reluctantly given the extensions, but I was required to write a letter stating I would deposit B800k in a Thai bank next year or I would not get another extension.

 

The Long Story:

 

My wife and I went for our eleventh retirement extension today (20 March) at Hatyai immigration. It was more crowded than I have ever seen it and most of the immigration staff seemed to be trainees.

 

After two student helpers, we were presented with an Immigration Officer (IO), without rank on her uniform. She too, must have been new, after some mystified looks because she couldn’t get over the fact that my wife wasn’t Thai, she turned us over to a one and a half gold bar shoulder board (LTJG, US Navy rank) IO who spoke good English and was very pleasant.

 

The LTJG seemed better informed and provided us with a multi-page form which was entitled, Extension of Temporary Stay—it asked similar questions, but in a different way, from what I remembered on the retirement extension from before. The new form appeared to be three forms of five pages total stapled together and included questions such as emergency contact numbers both in Thailand and in your home country, a map of your house, required a picture of me and my foreign spouse—who piggy-backs on my retirement extension— together and several iterations of address, passport number, arrival card, arrival dates, etc. Of course, multiple copies of our income statement, bank book, marriage certificate, house lease, passport, two individual pictures of each of us and the forms we filled-out.

 

The LTJG went away with all the forms, copies, and our passports. She returned a long while later with her supervisor, a two gold bar shoulder board (LT US Navy Rank) IO who spoke no English.  The LTJG explained to us that her supervisor could not grant an extension because we had not come in at least 45 days before our current extension expired—our extension expired today, 20 March, 2017. Since I have little patience, my wife took over. She explained it was our eleventh retirement extension and we never came 45 days before our extension expired in the past. The LTJG said that was a precaution just in case the paperwork was insufficient.

 

The two IOs had a chat, and then the LTJG explained that we did not have proof of B800k in the bank. My wife showed her the income statement from the US Embassy. The LT IO said, “no good” in broken English.  The LTJG explained that the US embassy will not verify income and that we needed to have proof of B800k brought into Thailand and deposited in a Thai bank.

 

So, after some more consultation between the LTJG, LT, a male three gold bar (CDR US Navy) IO, and another male LT IO, who knew us from earlier immigration visits, we were granted another extension; provided I would write and sign a letter promising to deposit at least B800k in a Thai bank next year. Since I hoped they were confused, I asked to see the new immigration rules, but was told they were in process and not yet available.  

 

We continued waiting for the process and each step of the way the pleasant LTJG IO would come and tell us that our extension was still being processed. Finally, we paid our B3800 and got our extensions.

[ubonjoe]

Total nonsense on immigrations part.

I can see them perhaps wanting back up proof  for the income affidavit  but not the requirement to have 800k baht in the bank.

[Moonlover]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Total nonsense on immigrations part.

I can see them perhaps wanting back up proof  for the income affidavit  but not the requirement to have 800k baht in the bank.

I was talking with an American retiree up in Nong Kai a while back, who's been here many years. He told me he'd had similar problems up there.

 

They granted him an extension based on the embassy affidavit, but he was told that next year, he must provide proof of income in support of the affidavit.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Moonlover

[TerryLH]

"They granted him an extension based on the embassy affidavit, but he was told that next year, he must provide proof of income in support of the affidavit."

 

That's not what the OP is reporting happened to him.

He said he was told that the affidavit will not be allowed.  

 

Perhaps he misunderstood what they meant and they really told him they'll want to see proof of the 800k income.  Time will tell, I suppose.

[dblaisde]

Pretty nasty if it's true. But I don't see how it can be. Europeans use their pensions in lieu of having 800K in a Thai bank (or a portion of it) and they're not coming down on them. (Maybe it's reaction to Trump's immigration crap??)

 

This needs clarification pronto.

[dblaisde]

I wonder if a Benefit Statement directly from Social Security would make them happy.

 

http://i.imgur.com/52tPPKR.png
 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by dblaisde

[Evilbaz]

Maybe too many Americans have had a casual relationship with the truth when swearing their Income Affidavit?

There are local bloggers out there advocating "Just make up a number".

Do you really think that this goes unnoticed by Thai Immi and doesn't have possible consequences?

 

[dblaisde]

16 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

Maybe too many Americans have had a casual relationship with the truth when swearing their Income Affidavit?

There are local bloggers out there advocating "Just make up a number".

Do you really think that this goes unnoticed by Thai Immi and doesn't have possible consequences?

 

And maybe not...

 

What I really *thought* was that the US government would check the US Social Security figure before verifying it. Certainly the US embassy has access to US SSA data being, uh, all part of the US government....and no, I'm not a fool so there's no need to be snide.

Edited March 21, 2017 by dblaisde

[dblaisde]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Total nonsense on immigrations part.

I can see them perhaps wanting back up proof  for the income affidavit  but not the requirement to have 800k baht in the bank.

So the question remains: what's the official policy? I *am* having the Social Security Admin send me a Benefit Statement which verifies my income. Now I have to wonder if Thai Immigration will even take that. (I could have photoshopped it). The US Embassy is supposed to be proof against fraud. I always thought the US Embassy verified the SSA Income doc with SSA data before they signed off on it. Isn't this true?

[Evilbaz]

8 minutes ago, dblaisde said:

What I really *thought* was that the US government would check the US Social Security figure before verifying it. Certainly the US embassy has access to that data being, uh, the US government....and no, I'm not a fool so there's no need to be snide.

 

Not being snide - telling it like it is

So many of your countrymen have sworn false affidavits that they have screwed up "the honour system" for all other countries who also enjoyed this privilege.

So be prepared to prove your statements soon.

[ubonjoe]

42 minutes ago, dblaisde said:

What I really *thought* was that the US government would check the US Social Security figure before verifying it. Certainly the US embassy has access to that data being, uh, the US government....and no, I'm not a fool so there's no need to be snide.

The US embassy by law cannot verify any document. That is why it is done as an affidavit.

 

33 minutes ago, dblaisde said:

So the question remains: what's the official policy? I *am* having the Social Security Admin send me a Benefit Statement which verifies my income. Now I have to wonder if Thai Immigration will even take that. (I could have photoshopped it). The US Embassy is supposed to be proof against fraud. I always thought the US Embassy verified the SSA Income doc with SSA data before they signed off on it. Isn't this true?

You should already have a statement for your income last year and the notice they send about your payments for the coming year. I got both of them in the mail here.

I also have better proof than those 2 pieces of paper. I have a Thai bank book that shows my money coming into the country every month if I was ever asked for back up proof.

I think you are getting overly concerned about something that was said by one immigration officer. It is not official immigration policy and will not be.

It would also be for any proof of income document done by any embassy not just the US, 

 

[Evilbaz]

18 minutes ago, dblaisde said:

And maybe not...

 

What I really *thought* was that the US government would check the US Social Security figure before verifying it. Certainly the US embassy has access to US SSA data being, uh, all part of the US government....and no, I'm not a fool so there's no need to be snide.

I doubt strongly that an Embassy or Consulate has access to that information.

Maybe read up on what Embassies?Consulates  can/cannot do - it's on their website.

[dblaisde]

Do you know for a fact that that's what goes on as a rule at the US embassy, that they just let people put down whatever income amount they want, and that the embassy official puts his name and stamp to this hearsay? If all you've got to back you up on this are blog posts, you haven't proved anything yet except that you don't like America. I don't either, but for much better reasons than this.

[dblaisde]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The US embassy by law cannot verify any document. That is why it is done as an affidavit.

 

You should already have a statement for your income last year and the notice they send about your payments for the coming year. I got of them in the mail here.

I also have better proof than those 2 pieces of paper. I have a Thai bank book that shows my money coming into the country every month if I was ever asked for back up proof.

I think you are getting overly concerned about something that was said by one immigration officer. It is not official immigration policy and will not be.

It would also be for any proof of income document done by any embassy not just the US, 

 

>I have a Thai bank book that shows my money coming into the country every month if I was ever asked for back up proof.

 

By this do you mean that you have Social Security deposit your pension into your Thai bank account?

 

I *hope* I'm getting overly concerned. I'd like to unconcern myself right now. :)

 

I can see why Thai immigration would disallow such "proof" though if the US Embassy is just rubberstamping whatever the citizen decides to put down on paper. And I also could be photoshopping my Benefit Statements as well. It's really up to governments to validate this kind of information, and you would think the US government easily could and would.

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, dblaisde said:

By this do you mean that you have Social Security deposit your pension into your Thai bank account?

 

I *hope* I'm getting overly concerned. I'd like to unconcern myself right now. :)

 

I can see why Thai immigration would disallow such "proof" though if the US Embassy is just rubberstamping whatever the citizen decides to put down on paper. And I also could be photoshopping my Benefit Statements as well. It's really up to governments to validate this kind of information, and you would think the US government easily could and would.

 

I have my SS payment direct deposited to Bangkok Bank's branch in New York and they transfer it to my account here.

I think you are getting overly concerned. The same sort of report has been posted before and it only happened at one office and may of not even be happening now at that office.

You swear an oath to consular officer that it is true and correct. Making a false statement is punishable under the law. That is not rubber stamping anything.

Immigration accepts a lot of documents that they could consider photoshopped. What I get in the mail form the SSA looks very official since it comes as one of those letters with tear off ends that you have to then carefully unfold.

 

[dblaisde]

OK, thanks. I'll be careful to open my letter in front of their astonished eyes.

 

Good to know about your Bangkok Bank SSA hookup to Thailand through NYC. I guess that gets around the SSA not being able to send money directly to Thailand. Maybe I'll do that. I got an account with Kasikorn because it was popular and I'd heard some bad things about Bangkok bank, but maybe there's a reason for banking with them after all. And they are the flagship bank of the country so I suppose less likely for bankruptcy or other scandals.

 

thanks again. As you may remember, I'm still in the process of getting a "so-called" retirement visa for the first time so I want everything to go without pain.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, dblaisde said:

Good to know about your Bangkok Bank SSA hookup to Thailand through NYC.

Info about it and setting up a direct deposit account is here. http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

The direct deposit account requires going in person to withdraw or transfer the funds.  I go once a month when it comes in and transfer the funds to my other account there.

I get a SMS when it comes with the amount in dollars minus the fee for the transfer and the amount in baht along with the exchange rate.

 

[maewang99]

this post is all nonsense.

 

in the north the only issue is about the TM30. you need it.

 

Social Security... Bangkok Bank.  any other which way will get you into more and more complications.... and at the least being ripped off by fx rates and or bank fees by trying to do it any other way. the BBL thing is like that of an exclusive import agent... the USA has a handle on BBL to make sure we show up when we access the funds.... and keep it simple. I would easily guess any other arrangement will have more hassles going forward... as well as fees or the fx rate thing.

 

and there will never be a problem getting our Social Security as expats.  no way.  there is no reason for folks... I know many.. who think they need to keep a US address or US bank account and access Social Security funds via an ATM card.... there will be hassles going forward if you do that.  BBL direct deposit is the simple and best deal.



     

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by maewang99

[dddave]

I'm an American citizen.  I started today with a 10AM appointment at the US Embassy...Had my notarized income statement by 10:30.  Took the BTS to Mo Chit, then a Taxi to Chang Wattana arriving at noon.  Had some lunch and got my copies sorted, had a queue number by 1:05...23 people ahead of me at "L" section.  Called in 50 minutes, submitted applications for retirement extension renewal, then sent to another desk, then one more; about 45 minutes before I had my passport back in hand, new one year extension stamp included.  

Never a single question or remark concerning my income statement...the immigration officer calculated the Dollar amount into Thai Baht and wrote it on the form...that was it. 

[IMA_FARANG]

Who told you this?

 

[IMA_FARANG]

I also have my  Social Security pension sent by direct deposit monthly directly to my Bangkok Bank account and have since November 2014.here in Bangkok.

I receive it on the 4th of each month from Baltimore, Maryland.

The immigration here in CW has always accepted my income statement from the U.S. embassy here in Bangkok as proof each year at renewal time.

 

 

[dblaisde]

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Info about it and setting up a direct deposit account is here. http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

The direct deposit account requires going in person to withdraw or transfer the funds.  I go once a month when it comes in and transfer the funds to my other account there.

I get a SMS when it comes with the amount in dollars minus the fee for the transfer and the amount in baht along with the exchange rate.

 

How badly do you get ripped off by Bangkok Bank in these transactions? No doubt they expropriate a healthy percentage for converting it from dollars to thai baht. I wonder if Viss subtractts a conversion fee for AAM charges.. I've heard scare stories which says it's about percent. (or more).

[rogerluli]

I am unclear on one point in this discussion...Does the monthly 65K baht income have to be deposited or forwarded to a Thai Bank ? 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, dblaisde said:

How badly do you get ripped off by Bangkok Bank in these transactions? No doubt they expropriate a healthy percentage for converting it from dollars to thai baht. I wonder if Viss subtractts a conversion fee for AAM charges.. I've heard scare stories which says it's about percent. (or more).

From the webpage I posted a link to. No fees other than these and you get the TT (telex transfer) exchange rate shown for the date the transfer is credited to your account.

Quote

Fees

Transferred Amount	Fee (USD) for  Bangkok Bank’s New York Branch in US	Fee (THB) for  Bangkok Bank in Thailand
Not more than USD 50.00	Free	0.25% of the transfer     value (minimum 200Bt,         maximum 500Bt)
USD 50.01 – 100.00	3.00
USD 100.1 – 2,000.00	5.00
USD 2,000.01 – 50,000.00	10.00
USD 50,000.01 or more	20.00

 

[ubonjoe]

51 minutes ago, rogerluli said:

I am unclear on one point in this discussion...Does the monthly 65K baht income have to be deposited or forwarded to a Thai Bank ? 

No it does not.

[pmarlin]

The OP has pointed a problem at one Immigration office, If true. I did  my 7th retirement extension yesterday at Cw-Bangkok using the American embassy income affidavit with no problem. Just like the last six times I used one.  I always take back-up documents to prove income.  Never had to provide back-up proof but just in case.

[garyk]

I travel allot and allot in southern Thailand. I have been to that office for a 90 day report and tried to get an extension of stay in Su-ngai Kolok. Ran into the same problem. Came back to Chiang Mai and breezed threw.  I avoid the south for my extensions. I can prove the funds with no problem, but If I had to put 800K in a Thai bank I would just relocate to another country. I tie my funds up in money market and equity's. Pulling out 800K for a retirement visa here is ridiculous. You cannot own a small piece of land, cannot work, have 0 rights. Very poor place to have funds IMO.

[gk10002000]

22 minutes ago, garyk said:

I travel allot and allot in southern Thailand. I have been to that office for a 90 day report and tried to get an extension of stay in Su-ngai Kolok. Ran into the same problem. Came back to Chiang Mai and breezed threw.  I avoid the south for my extensions. I can prove the funds with no problem, but If I had to put 800K in a Thai bank I would just relocate to another country. I tie my funds up in money market and equity's. Pulling out 800K for a retirement visa here is ridiculous. You cannot own a small piece of land, cannot work, have 0 rights. Very poor place to have funds IMO.

I agree totally and plan to use the income verification method.  My monies are doing quite fine where they are invested.  However, I would point out that the 800k does not have to be in Thailand for the entire time.  There is nothing wrong with putting the 800k in and then withdrawing from it regularly, then refresh it up to 800k at the proper time before your renewal (90 days prior is it?).  Doing this shows how you are paying for things month to month which some offices seem to be concerned about lately.  I personally don't plan to do that since I plan to stay in country about six months of each year and will just bring cash and use the ATM a few times while there.

[Wilson Smith]

16 hours ago, dblaisde said:

Do you know for a fact that that's what goes on as a rule at the US embassy, that they just let people put down whatever income amount they want, and that the embassy official puts his name and stamp to this hearsay? If all you've got to back you up on this are blog posts, you haven't proved anything yet except that you don't like America. I don't either, but for much better reasons than this.

However signing this letter knowing you have put down false information is a federal crime.

[garyk]

24 minutes ago, gk10002000 said:

I agree totally and plan to use the income verification method.  My monies are doing quite fine where they are invested.  However, I would point out that the 800k does not have to be in Thailand for the entire time.  There is nothing wrong with putting the 800k in and then withdrawing from it regularly, then refresh it up to 800k at the proper time before your renewal (90 days prior is it?).  Doing this shows how you are paying for things month to month which some offices seem to be concerned about lately.  I personally don't plan to do that since I plan to stay in country about six months of each year and will just bring cash and use the ATM a few times while there.

I have a really hard time with that thinking.

Pulling money out of the market every year to put 800K in a Thai bank is expensive. It is a loosing situation for me. I might take a hit on the timing of the withdrawal, I would take a hit transferring it into Thailand, I would take a hit re-investing it. Extremely poor and bad business in every since of the word. Although 800K is not a large sum of money. I have 0 interest in financing the Thai banking system with a free 800K every year. I feel like I am already spending my money here and helping the Thai economy with out supporting the rip off banks. 

I like it here, don't get me wrong. But, I have set limits on what is acceptable for me. And the 800K baht rule is one of the rules I will not abide by if it comes to that. And fortunately I don't have to abide by it. 

No hard feeling either way, love Thai people.