U.S. to ban some airline passengers from carrying larger electronics

[Andaman Al]

The fact is that many people like myself will come to realise that it simply is not worth traveling to the US - for anything. My wife wants to take the kids to Disney World, no problem says I, Tokyo, Honk Kong, Paris, take your pick. The US is just not worth the hassle. Even in business, if you go there and make a single error or you say something considered wrong you can find yourself on the end of a class action that will wipe out your entire business/company. On your arrival at any US airport you are treated like crap by TSA and customs and immigration. I was recently offered a huge amount of money to go to the US on business for 4 weeks, I have said no, I am simply not interested in putting up with the crap or directly contributing to an economy where 49% (Hillary did get 3 million more ) of the population are village idiots.

 

I hope that the countries of Qatar, The UAE (not forgetting Dubai) respond with a similar ban on any airline carrying US citizens that travel to their countries (I do not think that US airline companies fly direct to any of the places they have imposed the restrictions, they use code share airlines from Europe. They should also stop any US servicemen deployed in their countries from leaving their military base, and terminate any Trump construction and real estate projects planned in their countries. It is easy to set off any explosive in the hold by using your mobile phone (or a timer). This is not valid intel this is protectionism on the part of the US carriers and I guarantee it has been initiated by Trumps team.

[oldcarguy]

The bad guys only need to be good once , and it can be  anywhere , Like London today

 

I  hope we are having talks with Boeing and Airbus on making the aircraft safe from any signals from  Terrorist computers etc ,

When its "fly by wire" it is not going to be easy,

 

There is no way to stop these Terrorists , they are not all connected to each other and many have leaders who are crazier than  the leaders that we see on TV,

 

I wonder if these airlines will now hand out "official"  iPads or Tablets to passengers  to keep them busy o long flights ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hawker9000]

5 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

The fact is that many people like myself will come to realise that it simply is not worth traveling to the US - for anything. My wife wants to take the kids to Disney World, no problem says I, Tokyo, Honk Kong, Paris, take your pick. The US is just not worth the hassle. Even in business, if you go there and make a single error or you say something considered wrong you can find yourself on the end of a class action that will wipe out your entire business/company. On your arrival at any US airport you are treated like crap by TSA and customs and immigration. I was recently offered a huge amount of money to go to the US on business for 4 weeks, I have said no, I am simply not interested in putting up with the crap or directly contributing to an economy where 49% (Hillary did get 3 million more ) of the population are village idiots.

 

I hope that the countries of Qatar, The UAE (not forgetting Dubai) respond with a similar ban on any airline carrying US citizens that travel to their countries (I do not think that US airline companies fly direct to any of the places they have imposed the restrictions, they use code share airlines from Europe. They should also stop any US servicemen deployed in their countries from leaving their military base, and terminate any Trump construction and real estate projects planned in their countries. It is easy to set off any explosive in the hold by using your mobile phone (or a timer). This is not valid intel this is protectionism on the part of the US carriers and I guarantee it has been initiated by Trumps team.

LOL.  Over 75M tourists per year, and the largest immigrant stream in the world -- seem to disagree with you.  So go somewhere else, the U.S. will muddle through somehow.

[hawker9000]

13 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

No one is considering what is the root cause of all this insecurity. It's all to do with the thorn in the flesh that is causing Islam loss of pride. If you're not sure quite what that is, look at Bin Laden's stated motives for 9/11. Until that particular situation is resolved (the solution is clear to me) then you can expect insecurity to mount (and as we saw in that survey the other day, people equate security with happiness). This issue is spoiling the modern world. Deny the underlying sociology of this - or deny even discussion of this issue in the context of creeping world insecurity -  and you are part of the problem.

What's even clearer is that giving in to intimidation through violence makes you a much bigger  part of the problem...

 

[Andaman Al]

24 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

LOL.  Over 75M tourists per year, and the largest immigrant stream in the world -- seem to disagree with you.  So go somewhere else, the U.S. will muddle through somehow.

Gladly. It is all personal choice and my personal choice. Lets see what the tourism figures are Jan 2017-Jan 2018  

[oldcarguy]

9 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Gladly. It is all personal choice and my personal choice. Lets see what the tourism figures are Jan 2017-Jan 2018  

I am confused  if this is in both directions yet ?

 

So if I take a flight from New York to  one of these cities can I take a Laptop ?

 

I can live without my laptop , but I will remove battery and put it in another suitcase ,  and remove hard drive and ( Hopefully) put it in my carry on luggage

 

I am afraid this is going to get much bigger and change the way people travel  , I hope I am wrong , but no official wants to take the fall for something happening that may have been stopped

[Andaman Al]

52 minutes ago, oldcarguy said:

I am confused  if this is in both directions yet ?

 

So if I take a flight from New York to  one of these cities can I take a Laptop ?

 

I can live without my laptop , but I will remove battery and put it in another suitcase ,  and remove hard drive and ( Hopefully) put it in my carry on luggage

 

I am afraid this is going to get much bigger and change the way people travel  , I hope I am wrong , but no official wants to take the fall for something happening that may have been stopped

Good question.

 

The problem is it will now happen in the hold. We have just given would be terrorists carte Blanche to put any manner of electrical devices inside their main luggage, and they can activate them from their mobile via blue tooth !  We just made things a whole lot unsafer.

 

You can't take the battery out of a Mac, nor the hard drive.

 

Not sure about the two way journey thing. thing.

[Grubster]

On 3/22/2017 at 10:11 AM, Andrew Dwyer said:

So I have to check my laptop and iPad but I can sit on the plane and fiddle with my iPhone to my hearts content ?
Where's the logic ?

Maybe they know of something that can be hidden inside a laptop that won't fit in your phone?

[Grubster]

7 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Good question.

 

The problem is it will now happen in the hold. We have just given would be terrorists carte Blanche to put any manner of electrical devices inside their main luggage, and they can activate them from their mobile via blue tooth !  We just made things a whole lot unsafer.

 

You can't take the battery out of a Mac, nor the hard drive.

 

Not sure about the two way journey thing. thing.

I'm sure the authorities have looked into the pros and cons of this decision and I for one am glad they are, it is not their fault that many like to kill people at random.

[Cats4ever]

My major worry would be security for my devices in the hold.

[JKfarang]

As stated by some of the other posters, this is nothing more than another smoke screen by the US govt.  What would prevent the so called "threat" from merely flying 1st to a country/airport not on the list before then flying to the US with the laptop b*mb?  Nothing I can think of....

 

Reminds me of a return flight thru LAX several years ago when I was stopped temporarily while TSA double checked my carry-on backpack (after I went outside to smoke).  While waiting I asked one of the TSA agents whether they had ever found anything in anyone's shoes.  Her response: Well, nor sir but if we didn't check everyone's shoes then some people would be upset about that too. My response: Sorry I asked.

 

Bottom line: IMO the "terrorists" have already won.  Terrorism is not only about committing heinous acts but, more importantly, putting fear in the minds of the people.  Personally, I refuse to fall into that trap.  Unfortunately, my govt took the bait "hook, line and sinker" for a variety of reasons.  Though I am no statistician, I strongly suspect that I have a better chance of winning the lottery (even though I never play) than becoming the victim of a "terrorist attack".  Unfortunately, others have decided to take away many of the freedoms, liberties and personal privacy that I used to enjoy and claim that it is "for my own good".  I don't believe it for one second.

 

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, Grubster said:

Maybe they know of something that can be hidden inside a laptop that won't fit in your phone?

 

2 hours ago, Grubster said:

I'm sure the authorities have looked into the pros and cons of this decision and I for one am glad they are, it is not their fault that many like to kill people at random.

You are placing faith in a Government that for 60 days has shown that it is the most untrustworthy bunch of crooks ever to slither the floors of the White House. The move on laptops and other devices is pure protectionism for US Airlines. It is designed to get passengers off the luxury of , Qatar, Emirates and Etihad and get them on the crap US carriers. Remember, there was a meeting with Trump and the heads of US carriers over a week ago to discuss the very problem. They were concerned that Qatar, Emirates and Etihad were getting Government subsidies and taking a large share of the passenger market.  If you are concerned about explosives in laptops then you ban laptops completely. The risk of a fire in the hold due to all those additional lithium batteries is far greater than any terrorist attack using a laptop. A fire in the hold will generally mean the loss of the aircraft. The airports in Qatar, Dubai and UAE are amongst the most modern in the world and far outclass anything in the USA, their security scanning equipment is equally as leading edge. The whole thing is utter BS.

 

If you put a 'sheet' of plastic explosive in a laptop (some how) instead of seeing electronic bits during the scan you will pick up a big sheet of something obscuring them. As one poster remarked earlier, all you need to do if you want to wipe out an aircraft is take a bottle (100 ml) of nerve agent on board an aircraft, clear, odourless and deadly to all on board. The security efforts should be before boarding and that should include profiling! Profiling is seen as racist BUT it is the only thing that has a high success rate.

[Grubster]

11 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

 

You are placing faith in a Government that for 60 days has shown that it is the most untrustworthy bunch of crooks ever to slither the floors of the White House. The move on laptops and other devices is pure protectionism for US Airlines. It is designed to get passengers off the luxury of , Qatar, Emirates and Etihad and get them on the crap US carriers. Remember, there was a meeting with Trump and the heads of US carriers over a week ago to discuss the very problem. They were concerned that Qatar, Emirates and Etihad were getting Government subsidies and taking a large share of the passenger market.  If you are concerned about explosives in laptops then you ban laptops completely. The risk of a fire in the hold due to all those additional lithium batteries is far greater than any terrorist attack using a laptop. A fire in the hold will generally mean the loss of the aircraft. The airports in Qatar, Dubai and UAE are amongst the most modern in the world and far outclass anything in the USA, their security scanning equipment is equally as leading edge. The whole thing is utter BS.

 

If you put a 'sheet' of plastic explosive in a laptop (some how) instead of seeing electronic bits during the scan you will pick up a big sheet of something obscuring them. As one poster remarked earlier, all you need to do if you want to wipe out an aircraft is take a bottle (100 ml) of nerve agent on board an aircraft, clear, odourless and deadly to all on board. The security efforts should be before boarding and that should include profiling! Profiling is seen as racist BUT it is the only thing that has a high success rate.

I agree on profiling, but I doubt that the US is making this up. If in fact these countries are subsidizing these airlines than that is not an equal competition trade practice and should be countered in some way.  

[Andaman Al]

20 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I agree on profiling, but I doubt that the US is making this up. If in fact these countries are subsidizing these airlines than that is not an equal competition trade practice and should be countered in some way.  

At last we agree. Counter unfair competition in some way - taxes maybe? but you do not impose some form of security issue that is going to affect millions of passengers world-wide when the security issue itself is made up. It is clear from the countries which airlines are being targeted. Emirates, Etihad and Qatar probably all in the top 5 airlines of the world. The other countries that have been thrown in are just for good measure.

 

 

[Grubster]

8 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

At last we agree. Counter unfair competition in some way - taxes maybe? but you do not impose some form of security issue that is going to affect millions of passengers world-wide when the security issue itself is made up. It is clear from the countries which airlines are being targeted. Emirates, Etihad and Qatar probably all in the top 5 airlines of the world. The other countries that have been thrown in are just for good measure.

 

 

I thought it may be because most possible terrorists live in these countries.

[Andaman Al]

14 minutes ago, Grubster said:

I thought it may be because most possible terrorists live in these countries.

Many Terrorists are smart, well funded people these days and they should never be under estimated. If they are going to pull off something 'new' in terms of ways to attack then they only have one chance before their methods are uncovered and steps put in place to avoid it happening again.  I doubt they are going to bring down one of their 'own' aircraft (i.e. an aircraft with 90% Arabic people on board - especially out of a country allegedly funding them) . There is also so much scrutiny in the airports at Dubai, Doha and Abu Dhabi they would not even try it. They would travel to somewhere innocuous and do the dirty deed from there. The problem is once some over zealous character shouts 'THREAT"! then you have to have balls of steel to say 'nonsense' carry on as normal, as in the event of any future incident full responsibility would bear down on those who refused to listen to the zealot. Believe me, I want security, but I like sensible well considered security. I was a professional pilot, I know the risks and I know the scaremongering. I have had British airport security remove from me and colleagues (on duty pilots) bags sharp pencils because they were a potential weapon! They forget that behind the co-pilots seat there is a big fire axe. If I wanted to do someone harm, I would not piss about with a pencil would I, when I have a fire axe. There is an entire industry now built around promoting fear in travellers and none of the shareholders who make hundreds of millions will allow their profits to diminish by a population believing there is no real terror threat.

[Grubster]

4 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Many Terrorists are smart, well funded people these days and they should never be under estimated. If they are going to pull off something 'new' in terms of ways to attack then they only have one chance before their methods are uncovered and steps put in place to avoid it happening again.  I doubt they are going to bring down one of their 'own' aircraft (i.e. an aircraft with 90% Arabic people on board - especially out of a country allegedly funding them) . There is also so much scrutiny in the airports at Dubai, Doha and Abu Dhabi they would not even try it. They would travel to somewhere innocuous and do the dirty deed from there. The problem is once some over zealous character shouts 'THREAT"! then you have to have balls of steel to say 'nonsense' carry on as normal, as in the event of any future incident full responsibility would bear down on those who refused to listen to the zealot. Believe me, I want security, but I like sensible well considered security. I was a professional pilot, I know the risks and I know the scaremongering. I have had British airport security remove from me and colleagues (on duty pilots) bags sharp pencils because they were a potential weapon! They forget that behind the co-pilots seat there is a big fire axe. If I wanted to do someone harm, I would not piss about with a pencil would I, when I have a fire axe. There is an entire industry now built around promoting fear in travellers and none of the shareholders who make hundreds of millions will allow their profits to diminish by a population believing there is no real terror threat.

I don't think we agree on much so lets just leave it at that.

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

I don't think we agree on much so lets just leave it at that.

Not a very comprehensive or convincing answer. Just exactly what do you disagree with? There is nothing contentious in the post, or is it you just can never bear to think you are wrong? How Trumpesque of you.

[Grubster]

4 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Not a very comprehensive or convincing answer. Just exactly what do you disagree with? There is nothing contentious in the post, or is it you just can never bear to think you are wrong? How Trumpesque of you.

Just not taking the bait here thats all, good bye.

[Andaman Al]

10 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Just not taking the bait here thats all, good bye.

How bizarre there was no bait.  Yes good bye.