Five dead, at least 40 injured in UK parliament 'terrorist' attack

[simple1]

27 minutes ago, transam said:

I have NO bigotry towards ALL Muslims...Never have regarding ANYONE following a religion....BUT, there is NOW one religion that wants to kill anything that moves via an offshoot of it.........FACT.......If this "offshoot" were not doing their murderous stuff we could all relax, military stay home.......

If YOU and the other bloke want to protect these folk, that is up to you....

Usually the other bloke calls me a racist because I don't like the "offshoot" of the religion that is killing, raping innocent folk for absolutely nothing...Just an interpretation of a book...

 

Thank goodness Jehovah Witness folk didn't find a killing thing in their book...

Agree with your first paragraph, though I think you will agree situation right now way too unstable in so far as our military being able to return to home base even when ISIS are defeated. 

 

Don't recall anyone defending or supporting Islamic extremism / terror. If your alleging I do, that is a major insult which you should retract.

Edited March 26, 2017 by simple1

[transam]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Agree with your first paragraph, though I think you will agree situation right now way to unstable in so far as our military being able to return to home base even when ISIS are defeated. 

 

Don't recall anyone defending or supporting Islamic extremism / terror. If your alleging I do, that is a major insult which you should retract.

If you think that then I do, unfortunately another guy HERE calls me a racist at every opportunity regarding Muslim stuff, that is waaaaaay out of order, but when folk make statements like that it is obviously a ploy to make readers think l am..... He knows who he is and is nuts..

[simple1]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

If you think that then I do, unfortunately another guy HERE calls me a racist at every opportunity regarding Muslim stuff, that is waaaaaay out of order, but when folk make statements like that it is obviously a ploy to make readers think l am..... He knows who he is and is nuts..

Thank you for retraction.

[brewsterbudgen]

Me too, but I don't know what they are really thinking, nor do you...

Talk about moving the goal posts! Are you suggesting all Muslims are likely to be harbouring terrorist ambitions or sympathies? I hope not.

[transam]

Just now, brewsterbudgen said:

Talk about moving the goal posts! Are you suggesting all Muslims are likely to be harbouring terrorist ambitions or sympathies? I hope not.

Another DAFT post.........Gawd..

 

Can YOU read what folk are thinking..........YES or NO....

[brewsterbudgen]

Another DAFT post.........Gawd..
 
Can YOU read what folk are thinking..........YES or NO....

No. But that was not the point of my original comment.

[simple1]

7 hours ago, thai3 said:

The figure of deaths caused by Islam since it's unfortunate founding is usually 250 million slaughtered in the name of Allah and the religion of peace.

A constantly repeated number by those from the 'right' and usually off topic. A total that includes a huge guesstimated number of deaths in India by a known anti Islam individual with practically zero empirical proof.

[7by7]

17 hours ago, Rigby40 said:

Today's leftist/media denial and apologics of atrocities committed at the hands of muslims is yesterdays leftist/media denial of attrocities committed by communists Stalin and Castro. Only today the denial is much more widespread instead of a few elitist news papers, writers and 'intellectuals'.

 Ah yes, the usual calumny.

 

"Anyone who says that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorist and do not support the terrorists and condemn the terrorists is an apologist for the terrorists."

 

During The Troubles I said the same about the majority of Irish; despite a delayed train being all that stopped me from being in The Horse and Groom in Guildford with my friends when the bomb went off. So I guess by your standards that also makes me an apologist for the IRA!

[rijb]

Just now, simple1 said:

A constantly repeated number by those from the 'right' and usually off topic. A total that includes a huge guesstimated number of deaths in India by a known anti Islam individual with practically zero empirical proof.

It sounds like your hate for the ‘right’ outweighs your hate for islamophobia.  I thought most white male Europeans, from the left, are anti-religion, period.  Maybe it’s time to get off your high horse and admit you’re just another colonialist, at heart.

[7by7]

15 hours ago, 348GTS said:

The flaw in that argument is that most everyone calls out those nutters, including the media, general public and members of their own religion. The problem with Islam is that the majority of "peaceful moderate" Muslims remain silent and very rarely call their "brethren" out on their deranged behaviour

 As has been shown every time someone posts this accusation; Muslims do condemn the murders and other atrocities carried out in the name of their religion; many times; and have been doing so since 9/11 and before.

 

Political leaders and representative organisations issue statements, religious leaders issue fatwas, ordinary Muslims attend demonstrations in the street and protest online.

 

I and others have posted links to such many times; here's another one: Muslim leaders unite with other faiths at Westminster Abbey to condemn 'appalling' attack

Quote

Muslims condemned the "appalling" Westminster terror attack as they joined Christian and Jewish leaders for a service just metres from the scene.

Sunni Sheikh Khalifa Ezzat, head Imam at the London Central Mosque, and Sheikh Mohammed Al-Hilli, representing Shia Muslims, stood side-by-side with Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby.

Chief Rabbi Ephriam Mirvis and Cardinal Vincent Nichols also joined the gathering outside Westminster Abbey.

They led a minute of silence in tribute to the four innocent victims who were killed and the many who were left injured.

Mr Al-Hilli said: "As a member of the Shia Muslim community here in the United Kingdom I would like to express my condolences to the families of the victims of this heinous and appalling attack.

"We utterly condemn this terrorist act."

 

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, rijb said:

It sounds like your hate for the ‘right’ outweighs your hate for islamophobia.  I thought most white male Europeans, from the left, are anti-religion, period.  Maybe it’s time to get off your high horse and admit you’re just another colonialist, at heart.

Emphasise of dislike for the far right "Yes''. My empathy for a particlar path of contemplation is captured in my 'signature'. Colonialist??? LOL

Edited March 26, 2017 by simple1

[7by7]

10 hours ago, vogie said:

Oh dear, you sound a bit like a child caught fighting in the playground 'it wasn't me sir, he started it. 

 

We know all religions are flawed, they are fairy stories written many many years ago, but with hand on heart, most people would admit that Islam takes the biscuit with whats written in their workshop manual.

 

You mention "haters on here" and ask if I am one of them, I am not an hater, but lets put the ball back in your court, what do you think I am? You appear to be a 'defender of Islam' and it is you sir that is in denial.

 

Churchill hit the nail on the head when he said "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

 

I've already explained my reasons for that post; I'm not doing so again.

 

As for what I think you are; you comments can lead me to just one obvious conclusion.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I've already explained my reasons for that post; I'm not doing so again.

 

As for what I think you are; you comments can lead me to just one obvious conclusion.

Shudda gone to specsavers, you obviously have tunnel vision and can't see the wood for the trees.

 

The world was saying exactly the same around 1937, oh old Hitler seems a decent chap, 20,000000 dead later, mmnnn, wasn't as nice as I thought.

 

If someone disagrees with you they are automatically labelled as a racist, open your eyes and see whats happening for once! Why you always try to defend the indefensable is a mystery to us all.

[Rigby40]

51 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Ah yes, the usual calumny.

 

"Anyone who says that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorist and do not support the terrorists and condemn the terrorists is an apologist for the terrorists."

 

During The Troubles I said the same about the majority of Irish; despite a delayed train being all that stopped me from being in The Horse and Groom in Guildford with my friends when the bomb went off. So I guess by your standards that also makes me an apologist for the IRA!

Nobody here is saying all muslims are terrorists so you're way off with that post. The problem is that leftists won't even admit there's a problem within Islam which clearly there is.

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

And your relevance to the Westminster killings are.......................

 Again, I was replying to a specific post; that's why I quoted it!

 

Perhaps you can tell us what relevance the post of Thai3 I was replying to has to the Westminster attack?

 

 

[7by7]

28 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Nobody here is saying all muslims are terrorists so you're way off with that post. The problem is that leftists won't even admit there's a problem within Islam which clearly there is.

 If you seriously believe that "Nobody here is saying all muslims are terrorists" then you cannot have read very many posts in this topic!

 

There is a problem with terrorists who use Islam as justification for their atrocities; no rational person can deny that. I certainly never have.

 

Though I wonder how many leaders of ISIS etc. actually believe the pony they feed their indoctrinated followers; the pony they use to radicalise others. I suspect that they don't believe it at all.

[Rigby40]

Just now, 7by7 said:

 If you seriously believe that "Nobody here is saying all muslims are terrorists" then you cannot have read very many posts in this topic!

 

There is a problem with terrorists who use Islam as justification for their atrocities; no rational person can deny that. I certainly never have.

 

Though I wonder how many leaders of ISIS etc. actually believe the pony they feed their indoctrinated followers; the pony they use to radicalise others. I suspect that they don't believe it at all.

Yeah I'm sure they believe every single muslims is a terrorist, right..

 

I don't know what ISIS has to do with anything since Islam has a long history of such hate and violence.

[7by7]

49 minutes ago, vogie said:

Why you always try to defend the indefensable is a mystery to us all.

 By 'the indefensable (sic)' do you mean terrorism?

 

If so, show me where I have ever done such a thing.

 

 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

Yeah I'm sure they believe every single muslims is a terrorist, right..

That is certainly the impression they give from their posted comments! If not an active terrorist, then a supporter of same.

 

5 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

I don't know what ISIS has to do with anything

 ISIS have claimed that Masood was one of theirs; so they have a lot to do with this topic!

 

7 minutes ago, Rigby40 said:

since Islam has a long history of such hate and violence.

As do other religions.

[Rigby40]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

That is certainly the impression they give from their posted comments! If not an active terrorist, then a supporter of same.

 

 ISIS have claimed that Masood was one of theirs; so they have a lot to do with this topic!

 

As do other religions.

Are a large portion of Muslims in support of certain terrorist motives and acts? Yes, that is true.

 

"Though I wonder how many leaders of ISIS etc. actually believe the pony they feed their indoctrinated followers; the pony they use to radicalise others. I suspect that they don't believe it at all."

You misunderstood my point. My point is that to claim ISIS probably doesn't believe what they preach is to claim that all the other millions upon millions of muslims throughout history who murdered, killed and enslaved others didn't believe what they preached either. Let's not forget the prophet of their religion was a brutal warlord!

 

The only difference is that other religions have had a reformation and have made it to civilized society.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 By 'the indefensable (sic)' do you mean terrorism?

 

If so, show me where I have ever done such a thing.

 

 

What do you honestly think of their 'good book', when you read it, and I have little doubt that you have read it. Do you think people can be actually be rational that believes in such a very controversial book. All believers of Islam read it, so it must have some profound influence on their lives. Whether you are a moderate or an extremist their beliefs eminate from the same book, do you not find it disburbing to say the least. I don't want to start quoting some of the vile and insulting paragraphs from the said book, I would be here till next Christmas.

 

I just wish you could be a little more balanced in your views a not call everyone who doesn't agree with you 'a racist'

 

In the UK I had many Muslim aquaintances, but I would never discuss their religion, I value my head too much, I think it looks better on than off.

 

So to answer your question, no I don't mean terrorism, please read above and maybe you might understand, but I won't hold my breath.

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.  

[Rigby40]

10 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

If what you say is true; explain why far more Muslims join in with the worldwide condemnation of such acts than participate in or condone them.

 

 You are yet again ignoring the millions of Christians who throughout history have murdered, tortured, enslaved others. Did they believe in the teachings of Christ? Well they carried out all of that in his name!

 

History (not anyone's holy book) tells us that Mohammed may have been a warlord; but was no less brutal than any other warlord of his time. Take the sack of Constantinople in 1204. Thousands killed, thousands raped. Who did this to the Christian capital of the East? Cristian crusaders from the west!

 

If you do want to read about religious warlords in a holy book; take a leaf through the Old Testament.

 

It is true that there are oppressive Muslim regimes, Saudi for example. But oppression and restriction of freedoms is not limited to Islamic states. Leaving out the obvious two, there's Equatorial Guinea, the Central African Republic, Zimbabwe, North Korea and many more. 

 

I have previously shown how fanaticism and fundamentalism and violence exists today in religions other than Islam as well; and given examples.

 

Did you miss that; or have you chosen to ignore it because it doesn't fit with your worldview?

• Easy. Taqiyya.

 

• Christians aren't the ones still killing and blowing people up today in the name of Christ! 

 

• The crusades was a response to Islamic aggression and invasion. I used to use this same line when I was in your shoes, before I actually took the time to research the crusades.

 

• I thought the Old Testament was just a bunch of fairy tales? Why are you comparing fairy tales to the destruction brought on by a REAL man? Hmmm….

 

• Oh please, do show me some examples of religious fanaticism and extremism that's anywhere near the same level of Islamic extremism. This I'd love to see. Why do I have the funny feeling I'm about to be shown a video of the Westboro Baptist Church?

[swbaggies]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/women-gather-form-human-chain-10105637

[CharlieH]

Various posts removed.

If you wish to compare and debate Religion do it in a seperate thread. Anything not directly related to the Westminster incident will be removed.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[stander]

Governments prefer the myth of the “lone wolf” theory to the suggestion that they made mistakes. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/united-kingdom/2017-03-24/why-london-attacker-was-no-lone-wolf?cid=int-lea&pgtype=hpg

[stander]

7 hours ago, swbaggies said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/women-gather-form-human-chain-10105637

Muslims have the greatest propaganda vehicle: The media

[swbaggies]

17 minutes ago, stander said:

Muslims have the greatest propaganda vehicle: The media

So people complain when Muslims are quiet and to other people complain they use the media when they speak out? 

 

Guess some people will never be happy

[7by7]

28 minutes ago, swbaggies said:

So people complain when Muslims are quiet and to other people complain they use the media when they speak out? 

 

Guess some people will never be happy

 

Indeed.

 

Certain people say that all Muslims must at least support the terrorists because they never speak out or demonstrate against them.

 

When shown that in fact Muslims do speak out and demonstrate against terrorism; often, vociferously and in large numbers, then these same people say that they are

• lying to deceive as all as to their true intentions,
• the wrong type of Muslim (despite also saying that all Muslims are 'evil' as their holy book tells them to be so) or
• manipulating the leftist media!