Trump tastes failure as U.S. House healthcare bill collapses

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, Grubster said:

Single payer plan is the only hope and will likely never happen. Republicans hate unions except of course the Bar assn., AMA, and the insurance lobby, the three most powerful in the country.

 

 

not many like the ama these days regardless of party affiliation

[sirineou]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It wasn't Trump's bill. It was the GOP's bill, so it was they that blew it. Sure, Trump promised reform, and he pushed for it, but it wasn't up to him, in the end. 

People will blame him, but that is because they hate him.

The body that will come off worst in the real world is the GOP. They railed against it for 7 1/2 years, and when they got the chance to change it, failed big time.

 If only he was president and his party had control of both the house and senate.........

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, joecoolfrog said:

Trump makes Obama look better by the hour , little doubt which one history will be kinder to.

 

whether it was hillary, bernie or trump as president, at 2 months in office it seems astoundingly absurd to make a statement " little doubt which one history will be kinder to."

[landtrout]

2 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

Maybe when the issue is revisited in a year politicians from both sides will be able to get together, make a deal that's good for each political party, and the citizens of the USA.

  Presumably, you're referring to impeachment?

We can only hope that a year is not too long to wait!

 

[ilostmypassword]

The reason why single payer for the USA is currently unrealistic has less to do with the AMA, insurance companies or whoever than it does with the fact that most Americans get their health insurance from their employers.  So if you try to impose a single payer system, most people are going to very unhappy about that. Why would they want to take a chance on a new system when most are reasonably satisfied with what they've got now. It's really a political nonstarter.  You could, of course, make it a voluntary single payer system like medicare, but that would tend to attract the very unhealthy, thereby making it very costly.

This is why Obamacare is structured the way it is.  

If you're going to insure people with preexisting conditions, then the only way to accomplish that is financially feasible is to have healthy people in the insurance pool. Hence the mandate for everyone to get insurance. But since not all people can afford the insurance you need to have subsidies.

What most people don't realize is that employer sponsored insurance is in effect structured the same way.  While the benefit is, in theory, of equal value to all employees at a particular company, in effect, the young healthy workers are subsidizing the older, less healthy workers. 

It's notable that Obamacare tends to work much better in states that supported it form the getgo than in states that opposed it.  The problems could easily be remedied by a cooperative congress. As it is, for all the publicity about rates shooting up, the fact is that the amount most people pay via the exchanges hasn't risen much at all thanks to subsidies financed by the tax on the wealthy.

[impulse]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It wasn't Trump's bill. It was the GOP's bill, so it was they that blew it.

 

I'd go one step further and say it wasn't the whole GOP's bill.  It was the product of the GOP elite.  

 

How do they get to be elite?  They're masters at raising campaign money.  

 

Where does that campaign money come from?  Corporations who don't want cheaper healthcare, and other corporations who know their employees will leave in droves if they don't have to count on employer provided health insurance.

 

To believe Trump is supported by the GOP power brokers is a little naive.  They want him out of their way, probably more than the Dems do.

[whoareyou]

  Presumably, you're referring to impeachment?
We can only hope that a year is not too long to wait!
 

Don't think you can be impeached for being a poor POTUS.

It needs to be criminal. Possibly the FBI may find a connection in Russia which would show him the door

[atyclb]

6 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

Don't think you can be impeached for being a poor POTUS.

It needs to be criminal. Possibly the FBI may find a connection in Russia which would show him the door

 

russian connection is clear. the fbi just need to check all the Stolichnaya trumps casinos and hotels stock. 

[ilostmypassword]

15 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I'd go one step further and say it wasn't the whole GOP's bill.  It was the product of the GOP elite.  

 

How do they get to be elite?  They're masters at raising campaign money.  

 

Where does that campaign money come from?  Corporations who don't want cheaper healthcare, and other corporations who know their employees will leave in droves if they don't have to count on employer provided health insurance.

 

To believe Trump is supported by the GOP power brokers is a little naive.  They want him out of their way, probably more than the Dems do.

Yes because they hate the idea of slashing taxes on corporations and taxes on the .01 percent.  Really?

And deregulating firms like Goldman Sachs so they can once again bloat up while plunging the world economy into another financial disaster.

Edited March 25, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes because they hate the idea of slashing taxes on corporations and taxes on the .01 percent.  Really?

And deregulating firms like Goldman Sachs so they can once again bloat up while plunging the world economy into another financial disaster.

 

Gotta give the corporations credit.  They get great value for their contribution $$$.  Best political system (and politicians) money can buy.

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Gotta give the corporations credit.  They get great value for their contribution $$$.  Best political system (and politicians) money can buy.

Yes, there have been some studies about what was the most profitable activity corporations could engage in. The winner by  in terms of rate of return was lobbying.

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes, there have been some studies about what was the most profitable activity corporations could engage in. The winner by  in terms of rate of return was lobbying.

 

And I suspect a close second (or at least in the top 5) would be suing other companies.  Years ago I read that Texas Instrument's most profitable division was their legal department.  Suing other companies for violating obscure patents that had acquired by buying defunct companies.

 

Ah, but I digress...  Still, can't make a living suing people with an un-rigged legal system.

 

Edited March 25, 2017 by impulse

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, impulse said:

 

And I suspect a close second (or at least in the top 5) would be suing other companies.  Years ago I read that Texas Instrument's most profitable division was their legal department.  Suing other companies for violating obscure patents that had acquired by buying defunct companies.

It's funny. When conservatives complain about the court system, the examples they cite are of private citizens suing large entities. The fact is that the huge increase in court cases stems mostly from corporations suing each other and using every trick to slow down the legal process.

[impulse]

11 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

It's funny. When conservatives complain about the court system, the examples they cite are of private citizens suing large entities. The fact is that the huge increase in court cases stems mostly from corporations suing each other and using every trick to slow down the legal process.

 

And Trump knows that system so well, I'm hoping he becomes the poacher turned gamekeeper once he gets his footing to reform it- or at least start the reforms.  

 

It's early enough in the game that I'm still hoping his ego won't allow him to go down in the books as just another knob who threw the American people under the bus (again).

 

Early indicators aren't favorable, but I live in hope...

Edited March 25, 2017 by impulse

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

"We learned a lot about loyalty. We learned a lot about the vote-getting process," Trump told reporters at the White House,

Psst Donald politics is not about loyalty but doing right by the people. Even your own party realized that this fast crafted bill smelled to high heaven. Nancy Pelosi who is a dim wit in my book described it best. It takes months if not a year or more to put together a proper bill that will pass the smell test of BOTH parties and the PEOPLE Donald you know the people that spent their time, gas and hopes and dreams to travel to the voting booth in hope of change which now seems to be evaporating into thin air. More and more now realize that they have been CONNED. Go back to playing with your trucks in the WH driveway. 

[Somtamnication]

Made my day.

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

But desperate lobbying by the White House and Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan

lobbying=political threats or pork barrel add ons. 

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

“So I’ve watched the politicians. I’ve dealt with them all my life. If you can’t make a good deal with a politician, then there’s something wrong with you. You’re certainly not very good.”  D. Trump

                  There are literally over a thousand Trump quotes like that - where he voices some ridiculous and/or self-incriminating hypocritical <deleted>.

 

             There's probably a technical term for it, but what would be the term for a person who casts aspersions every direction (?) - when the character flaws he's articulating are his in spades.

 

               Bible thumping preachers are like that.  Preaching red-faced from the pulpit about the heinous sins of sex-outside-of-marriage (Jimmy Swaggart is just one of hundreds)      ......while doing worse on the sly.

 

 

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Trump said he would turn his attention to getting "big tax cuts" through Congress, another tricky proposition.

 

Good luck on this one Donald the people that you depend on to vote it through will be gauging their re-election chances and the any backlash from the voters in their districts once they realize it is another tax grab for the rich. Even though it is said politics is a "party" thing in reality its every politician for himself. The Democrats did not need any of the 3 political positions to keep the GOP in check they can just step back and watch them implode under president Donald Hornblower. 

[boomerangutang]

5 minutes ago, impulse said:

And Trump knows that system so well, I'm hoping he becomes the poacher turned gamekeeper once he gets his footing to reform it- or at least start the reforms.  

It's early enough in the game that I'm still hoping his ego won't allow him to go down in the books as just another knob who threw the American people under the bus (again).

Early indicators aren't favorable, but I live in hope...

                 "Trump knows that system so well,"   Boomers asks, "what system?"   He doesn't know politics.  Indeed, that was one of his key campaign slogans, about how he was such an outsider.  ha ha ha, choke, ha.

 

           What he does know well, is how to cheat and lie.  He's made a lot of money with those skills, .....and it won him the presidency.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, boomerangutang said:

                 "Trump knows that system so well,"   Boomers asks, "what system?"   He doesn't know politics.  Indeed, that was one of his key campaign slogans, about how he was such an outsider.  ha ha ha, choke, ha.

 

           What he does know well, is how to cheat and lie.  He's made a lot of money with those skills, .....and it won him the presidency.

 

I was referring to the tort system.  He's always suing someone, or being sued by someone else.

[elgordo38]

4 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                 "Trump knows that system so well,"   Boomers asks, "what system?"   He doesn't know politics.  Indeed, that was one of his key campaign slogans, about how he was such an outsider.  ha ha ha, choke, ha.

 

           What he does know well, is how to cheat and lie.  He's made a lot of money with those skills, .....and it won him the presidency.

There you go again getting right to the heart of the matter. Save a little glory for the rest of us. 

[Ramen087]

2 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

Nice dream but I fear highly unlikely.

Dream?  Not really. The current ACA needs a little help and a reasonable tweak of this year's effort could provide a bill the extreme right leaning members an incentive to support while a concession or two may get some moderates off the fence.  Time will tell and an optimistic outlook never hurts.

[Ramen087]

1 hour ago, landtrout said:

  Presumably, you're referring to impeachment?

We can only hope that a year is not too long to wait!

 

Of course not. Please see my response in post number fifty three {53}.

 

[elgordo38]

45 minutes ago, Somtamnication said:

Made my day.

Terrible kicking the Donald when is down. Maybe next time for the count. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by elgordo38

[elgordo38]

43 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

(Jimmy Swaggart is just one of hundreds)    

Good old Jimmy brings back memories of his flailing himself for his fornicating sins and then right back at it. The Bible was sure not his shield and buckler. 

[attrayant]

Excellent point made by Ezra Klein about what really motivates the two parties:

 

Trump's final threat to congressional republicans: Vote for this bill or risk losing your seat!

 

Obama's closing argument (for the ACA) to democratic legislators: Vote for this bill, even if by doing so, you risk losing your seat.

 

Vox: The difference between Trump’s and Obama’s closing health care pitches says it all.

[elgordo38]

2 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Excellent point made by Ezra Klein about what really motivates the two parties:

 

Trump's final threat to congressional republicans: Vote for this bill or risk losing your seat!

 

Obama's closing argument (for the ACA) to democratic legislators: Vote for this bill, even if by doing so, you risk losing your seat.

 

Vox: The difference between Trump’s and Obama’s closing health care pitches says it all.

Same intent one more crude than the other. Does not matter who you vote for its all the same content. Your only voting for a stooge put out there by the big boys to make you think you have the freedom of choice. 

[elgordo38]

45 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I was referring to the tort system.  He's always suing someone, or being sued by someone else.

It all evens out in the end and polishes the Trump brand a bit. 

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

 If only he was president and his party had control of both the house and senate.........

Thats what you got but everybody has their individual ax to grind. Bable-on