The difference between jurisdic manager and chairman of Committee?

[thairookie]

I am trying to understand the Condominium Act.

 

Does anyone know the difference?

[siam2007]

The juristic person (or manager) is the company that administers the building.

the chairman of the committee is an actual human being, usually being elected by the Condo owners

[Peterw42]

Some explanation here, there is a juristic person, a juristic manager and a committee, chairman is the head of the committee.

 

http://magnacarta.co.th/faq-section-2/condominium-juristic-management/

[thairookie]

In my condominium  there is a building  manager who reports to the juristic manager.  I am wondering if the juristic manager is also chairman of the board committee. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by thairookie

[smutcakes]

14 hours ago, thairookie said:

In my condominium  there is a building  manager who reports to the juristic manager.  I am wondering if the juristic manager is also chairman of the board committee. 

 

There is nothing preventing the Juristic Person Manager or the assignee of the JPM if it is a company, sitting on the Board of Committee or being elected its Chairman by the other Committee members.

 

To be elected JPM they need to have been elected by not less than 1/4 of the total condominium ownership in a general meeting. 

 

To to be a Committee member a simple majority of co-owners in a meeting elect you to be a committee member. 

 

[wpcoe]

13 hours ago, smutcakes said:

 

There is nothing preventing the Juristic Person Manager or the assignee of the JPM if it is a company, sitting on the Board of Committee or being elected its Chairman by the other Committee members.

 

To be elected JPM they need to have been elected by not less than 1/4 of the total condominium ownership in a general meeting. 

 

To to be a Committee member a simple majority of co-owners in a meeting elect you to be a committee member. 

 

Don't committee members have to be condo owners?  An outsider with no ownership in the building can be elected to the committee?

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Don't committee members have to be condo owners?  An outsider with no ownership in the building can be elected to the committee?

Yes, you need to be a co-owner to be on the commitee. That would create a ridiculous situation if an outsider could be on the committee.

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Peterw42

[wpcoe]

12 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Yes, you need to be a co-owner to be on the commitee. That would create a ridiculous situation if an outsider could be on the committee.

 

So, there *is* something preventing the JPM from sitting on the committee, then?

 

That's the way I had understood it.  Maybe I'm mis-understanding smutcakes' post above?

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, wpcoe said:

So, there *is* something preventing the JPM from sitting on the committee, then?

 

That's the way I had understood it.  Maybe I'm mis-understanding smutcakes' post above?

Plus , the committee can sack the JP,

[smutcakes]

8 hours ago, wpcoe said:

So, there *is* something preventing the JPM from sitting on the committee, then?

 

That's the way I had understood it.  Maybe I'm mis-understanding smutcakes' post above?

Sorry I was writing as if the JPM was eligible to be on the Committee. There are obviously other provisions which prevent persons being either a JPM or Committee member but for the purposes of my post I was making a statement that should the JPM meet the qualifications of being a Committee Member, there is nothing to stop them being so even if they are the JPM.

[thairookie]

What about the Managing Agent ?  When the Managing Agent comes in with one of its employees as Manager of the Condo, the Manager who works full time unlike members of the Board of Committee, is he the Juristic Manager too ?

Edited April 3, 2017 by thairookie

[Suradit69]

On 4/1/2017 at 2:37 PM, siam2007 said:

The juristic person (or manager) is the company that administers the building.

the chairman of the committee is an actual human being, usually being elected by the Condo owners

Our Juristic Person is a real live individual person. We voted for her by name. Not all condos have outside companies that administer its affairs. Our management is totally in the hands of salaried office staff and manager and the elected board.

[flossie35]

The juristic  person is not a person; it's a legal entity that can be treated as if it were person, eg it can be sued or prosecuted. The juristic person manager may be a person, or another juristic person ie a management company. Board members have to be owners, or if the owner is a company, a company representative. Members are elected at an owners' AGM, and the members elect the chairman. The AGM is the supreme authority, followed by the Board followed by the JPM.

 

 

 

[Familyaffairs]

The chairman of the committee can not also be the juristic person. The committee is chosen by the majority of owners to represent their interests. The juristic person enforces the rules and regulstions of the condominium,  and adherence to the articles of the condominium act. Minutes and files AGM resolutions, takes legal action against delinquent owners, issues debt free letter to fav Lutate condo transfers and much more. The juristic person takes guidance only from the committee, and only  as long as it doesn't contravene the condominium act. THe CJPM can act independently where there are safety concerns, as the JP manager is legally responsible.

[Familyaffairs]

1 hour ago, flossie35 said:

The juristic  person is not a person; it's a legal entity that can be treated as if it were person, eg it can be sued or prosecuted. The juristic person manager may be a person, or another juristic person ie a management company. Board members have to be owners, or if the owner is a company, a company representative. Members are elected at an owners' AGM, and the members elect the chairman. The AGM is the supreme authority, followed by the Board followed by the JPM.

 

 

 

 Unless the committee and/or the AGM pass resolutions that contravene the condominium act and/or affect safety. 

[Familyaffairs]

7 hours ago, thairookie said:

What about the Managing Agent ?  When the Managing Agent comes in with one of its employees as Manager of the Condo, the Manager who works full time unlike members of the Board of Committee, is he the Juristic Manager too ?

 

20 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Plus , the committee can sack the JP,

that is  incorrect, they need a percentage of the owners to sack the JPM. 

[Peterw42]

11 minutes ago, Familyaffairs said:

20 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Plus , the committee can sack the JP,

that is  incorrect, they need a percentage of the owners to sack the JPM. 

Yes thats right but the committee start the proceedings, call the meetings etc, I was more pointing out that a JP cant be on the committee.

[jippytum]

On 4/2/2017 at 7:17 AM, smutcakes said:

 

There is nothing preventing the Juristic Person Manager or the assignee of the JPM if it is a company, sitting on the Board of Committee or being elected its Chairman by the other Committee members.

 

To be elected JPM they need to have been elected by not less than 1/4 of the total condominium ownership in a general meeting. 

 

To to be a Committee member a simple majority of co-owners in a meeting elect you to be a committee member. 

 

Not correct committee members have to be owners .Owners on the committee control the juristic manager

[thairookie]

Ok, who signs the cheques ?  The managing agent who is the JPM or the chairman of the board of committee ?

 

Can I assume that when day to day management is outsourced to a managing agent (such as qpm), then the managing agent is the JPM?

[Delight]

2 hours ago, thairookie said:

Ok, who signs the cheques ?  The managing agent who is the JPM or the chairman of the board of committee ?

 

Can I assume that when day to day management is outsourced to a managing agent (such as qpm), then the managing agent is the JPM?

 

Companies such as QPM, contract to manage the building on a day to day basis. Typically their quotation will detail the functions that they agree to perform.

A building manager is supplied to carry out these functions. That  particular company  will also supply the JPM (FOC)

 

The cheques are signed by the JPM and countersigned by a committee member.

The term managing agent is not really used. They are referred to as Management Companies.

 

However  a committee member can be a JPM - technically they require a  work permit if non Thai.  They also have to be voted by at least ¼ of the total building vote

 

A Condo cannot be without a JPM for more than 7 days

 

If the current JPM leaves, for any reason, then  a  committee member must act to fulfil  the function.

 

 

 

[smutcakes]

14 hours ago, Familyaffairs said:

The chairman of the committee can not also be the juristic person. The committee is chosen by the majority of owners to represent their interests. The juristic person enforces the rules and regulstions of the condominium,  and adherence to the articles of the condominium act. Minutes and files AGM resolutions, takes legal action against delinquent owners, issues debt free letter to fav Lutate condo transfers and much more. The juristic person takes guidance only from the committee, and only  as long as it doesn't contravene the condominium act. THe CJPM can act independently where there are safety concerns, as the JP manager is legally responsible.

What law prevents the JPM being chairman of the Committee? 

[smutcakes]

14 hours ago, jippytum said:

Not correct committee members have to be owners .Owners on the committee control the juristic manager

Well obviously, i did not think that needed to be clarified, but will try and make it clearer.

 

Provided that the JPM and Committee Member are not precluded from either position for reasons stipulated in the act, there is nothing preventing the JPM also being Chairman of Committee, if they are voted by General Meetings in accordance with the provisions of the Act. (and the JPM is subsequently elected to be Chair of Committee by other Committee Members)

[Hans Rayong]

If AGM not gets enough votes (minimum 25% of all co-owners) for JPM the committee has to vote for JPM among the committee members.

The Chairman can be elected JPM.

Person married to co-owner can be voted in as committee members.

The JPM can only be a Thai citizen because you are working as a JPM.

To be member in a committee is not considered as work.

The JPM can resign by himself or be “sacked” by minimum of 25% of co-owners at a AGM or EGM.

[thairookie]

32 minutes ago, Hans Rayong said:

 

 

To be member in a committee is not considered as work.

 

 

What about the committee member elected as chairman.  Considered work ?  I think the chairman will get to sign cheques.

 

As for JPM having to be a Thai citizen, is it written in the Act ?  Or a foreigner with a WP can fill the post ?

[Hans Rayong]

If he meets all other requirements for WP, for example, salary 50,000 baht per month.

[smutcakes]

58 minutes ago, Hans Rayong said:

 

If AGM not gets enough votes (minimum 25% of all co-owners) for JPM the committee has to vote for JPM among the committee members.

The Chairman can be elected JPM.

Person married to co-owner can be voted in as committee members.

The JPM can only be a Thai citizen because you are working as a JPM.

To be member in a committee is not considered as work.

The JPM can resign by himself or be “sacked” by minimum of 25% of co-owners at a AGM or EGM.

 

If the AGM does not get enough votes to elect a JPM an EGM should be called within 15 days to reconsider the agenda. Formal appointment (or removal) of a JPM requires not less than 1/4 of total ownership to approve. There is a stop gap measure where the Committee may appoint a temporary JPM in the case where an AGM/EGM cannot appoint one, but this is a stop gap measure until a new EGM is arranged to elect correctly. You would not be able to register a new JPM without General Meeting minutes approving it.

 

 

[Hans Rayong]

The problem in Pattaya is that it is almost impossible to get the 25% owners to come to an AGM / EGM and vote for a candidate.

[smutcakes]

25 minutes ago, Hans Rayong said:

If he meets all other requirements for WP, for example, salary 50,000 baht per month.

There has been one case gone through the courts thus far,  a golf resort Condo in Phuket (The name i will omit) where the developer having fallen out with the farang JPM filed a suit with regards them working as JPM without WP.

 

The courts found in favor of the farang JPM. I am not aware of any other cases taken to court, so would be interested to hear your evidence to back up the assertions in your post?

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, Hans Rayong said:

The problem in Pattaya is that it is almost impossible to get the 25% owners to come to an AGM / EGM and vote for a candidate.

That may be so, but it does not make what you said a long term solution. If it was a possibility there is not much point even having the 25% stipulation on electing/removal of a JPM.

[thairookie]

Is any crime involved if the JPM appointed by the developer, the latter who still holds many unsold units, happens to be in cahoots with the developer by not collecting common facilities fees from the developer?