questions about getting a patent for a plant in Thailand

[boomerangutang]

This may seem like an odd topic, but I have grown fruit trees from seed. Two are standouts:

 

Of 65 avocado trees, one is exceptionally good.  Many qualities.   

 

Similarly, of over 50 pink grapefruit trees, one is exceptional, also with many qualities.   Note: grapefruit aren't available in Thailand, as far as I know. 

 

I've had some success with propagating copies of the grapefruit tree, but no success yet with grafting the avo tree, though both original trees are robust.

 

I've given some thought to getting a patent for one or both trees - in Thailand, but know nothing about it.  Does anyone reading this know if it's quixotic, or......?

 

I'm open to selling some of the grapefruit rooted-branches, but not for cheap.  Contact me if interested.   I can't do a Johnny Appleseed with the avocado, because, as I mentioned, I can't yet propagate it.   If someone (skilled at tree grafting) would come up here to Chiang Rai and assist with grafting, I'd be happy to pay a modest amount for the work.   I have lots of root stock, and ample scion material.

[boomerangutang]

here's an article I found which explains plant patents and copyrights.......

 

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gardening/what-does-it-mean-when-nursery-plants-are-patented-or-trademarked

 

40 views, and not one response, other than me 

 

No one has an opinion, or a pearl of wisdom on this topic?   Ok, so be it.

[BEVUP]

This is maybe why there's a lack of replies - Your kidding right

Just go shopping & look around & when you open the business & do well go for a walk up the street as though your shopping & you may even find your product there 

[Hereinthailand]

Yes I wouldnt even think about applying for a patent here, unless you want to give away your technology for free.

[Gary A]

Yes indeed, what do you want a patent on, the lucky choice for the right seed?  You are joking, right?

[boomerangutang]

11 hours ago, BEVUP said:

This is maybe why there's a lack of replies - Your kidding right

Just go shopping & look around & when you open the business & do well go for a walk up the street as though your shopping & you may even find your product there 

I don't understand your post.  Who mentioned shopping?

I've never seen a grapefruit for sale in Thailand.  Have you?  (different than pomelo 'somo')

 

8 hours ago, Gary A said:

Yes indeed, what do you want a patent on, the lucky choice for the right seed?  You are joking, right?

Not joking, but am cruising for responses - particularly from anyone with knowledge/experience on this topic.  There is some precedence, in the US anyway, for patents on particular plants. Four of 100's of examples:  Burbank plum, Idaho potato, Red Delicious apple, Hass Avocado.  Even in Thailand there are plant patent issues: jasmine rice for example - spills over to international relations between Thailand and India.  So, it's not a joke - not for some people anyway.  

 

There's also a multi-million baht lawsuit in Thailand re; agarwood

 

Most of the fresh food you and your wife buy - comes from plants which were developed by farmers/tinkerers.  I'm not looking to make money from developing superior fruits, but am curious if anyone has specific info which relates to that field of endeavor.  

 

 

 pressreader.com/thailand/bangkok-post/20070709/282209416446657

 

 

[Gary A]

Maybe you have something there. A couple of years ago my wife bought two lime trees from a nursery. Both started bearing fruit. She came in the house one day complaining that the fruit from one tree was good and the other tree had fruit that tasted really bad. I picked one and cut it. It was a lemon and not only was it a lemon, it was seedless. There is a problem though. Since there are no seeds, how would she propagate that tree.

[Hereinthailand]

If you are serious about patenting your plant forget about doing it here. Here is how to do it if you are serious.

http://articles.extension.org/pages/18449/intellectual-property-protection:-what-do-i-need-to-know-when-growing-and-breeding-organic-crops-and

[Hereinthailand]

You dont need seeds for that lemon tree just clone it.

[Expat Rob]

the best technique for cloning a fruit tree is air-layering propagation: http://www.instructables.com/id/Propagation-of-Fruit-Bearing-Trees-by-Air-Layering/       If you have a cloned Hass Avocado I'd be interested in buying, starting an avocado  from seed is a crap shoot from my experience...

 

[boomerangutang]

9 hours ago, Gary A said:

Maybe you have something there. A couple of years ago my wife bought two lime trees from a nursery. Both started bearing fruit. She came in the house one day complaining that the fruit from one tree was good and the other tree had fruit that tasted really bad. I picked one and cut it. It was a lemon and not only was it a lemon, it was seedless. There is a problem though. Since there are no seeds, how would she propagate that tree.

There are ways to propagate seedless varieties of plants. BTW, my best-quality pink grapefruit (out of 30 or 40 trees which matured from seed to bear fruit) .....is nearly seedless.  It averages about 1 seed per fruit.  It has other top qualities also, excellent taste (arguably better than Ruby), profuse production, good keeper, produces from August through nearly to January. 

 

1 hour ago, Hereinthailand said:

If you are serious about patenting your plant forget about doing it here. Here is how to do it if you are serious.

http://articles.extension.org/pages/18449/intellectual-property-protection:-what-do-i-need-to-know-when-growing-and-breeding-organic-crops-and

Thanks.   A non-cynical response.  Refreshing.

 

26 minutes ago, Expat Rob said:

       If you have a cloned Hass Avocado I'd be interested in buying, starting an avocado  from seed is a crap shoot from my experience...

I don't have Hass.  However, my tree, which I grew from seed, is the best of 63 others I grew from seed. I'm trying to propagate copies of it as we speak.  Am not having success thus far, that's why I'm cruising for someone skilled to assist.   I went to a local nursery and spoke with someone who said she'd get back to me, but (surprise) she didn't.  So I'm doing two things in that regard: 

 

>>>  continuing to try and graft the superior avocado of mine, 

 

and 

 

>>>  still looking for a skilled local grafter - Chiang Rai.

 

Note; as far as I know, avocados don't work for air or branch rooting.  I've had success doing that with several other fruit and nut trees, but not with avos.

[grollies]

I've been through the patent process, albeit in the UK on machinery, and it is not a cheap hobby and the papertrail deep.

 

Importing my Lanny from the UK to here was a piece of cake in comparison.

 

The application needs writing by a patent lawyer, you write the narrative and submit drawings, they turn it into complete mumbo jumbo.

 

Then you have to decide on worldwide or selected areas. The application is scrutinized by each applicant country and you have to pay.

 

Then there's the upkeep, again you have to keep paying to keep it enforced.

 

I'm not being cynical, just pragmatic.

 

Grapefruit is grown here where I live, sold in markets and even Tesco.

 

Also, if you have something worth patenting the last thing you do is broadcast the fact on message boards.

 

I wouldn't bother, just propogate and sell the plants.

[boomerangutang]

8 minutes ago, grollies said:

I've been through the patent process, albeit in the UK on machinery, and it is not a cheap hobby and the papertrail deep.

 

Importing my Lanny from the UK to here was a piece of cake in comparison.

 

The application needs writing by a patent lawyer, you write the narrative and submit drawings, they turn it into complete mumbo jumbo.

 

Then you have to decide on worldwide or selected areas. The application is scrutinized by each applicant country and you have to pay.

 

Then there's the upkeep, again you have to keep paying to keep it enforced.

 

I'm not being cynical, just pragmatic.

 

Grapefruit is grown here where I live, sold in markets and even Tesco.

 

Also, if you have something worth patenting the last thing you do is broadcast the fact on message boards.

 

I wouldn't bother, just propogate and sell the plants.

                       Are u sure it's real grapefruit (you've seen sold in Thailand), or just pomelo?  ...'cause I've never seen grapefruit for sale here - but I don't reside in a heavily-touristed region, maybe that's why. 

 

         I can understand for inventions - about not broadcasting on message boards, but for a new plant breed, it's different.  Indeed, there may be some folks interested in getting some new types avos or grapefruit with excellent qualities.   Have you eaten avos sold in Thailand?  In the farang stores, they're imported and usually taste like flavored cardboard - and they're high priced, at around 70 baht for a small fruit.    

 

                I agree with most of the post above.  Bureaucrats are stupid in how they make patent processes difficult and expensive.  They should instead encourage innovation and inventions.  But that's why they're bureaucrats, because they never had an original thought, and they want to control and stifle as much as possible, as well as garner fees.

[grollies]

10 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                       Are u sure it's real grapefruit (you've seen sold in Thailand), or just pomelo?  ...'cause I've never seen grapefruit for sale here - but I don't reside in a heavily-touristed region, maybe that's why. 

 

         I can understand for inventions - about not broadcasting on message boards, but for a new plant breed, it's different.  Indeed, there may be some folks interested in getting some new types avos or grapefruit with excellent qualities.   Have you eaten avos sold in Thailand?  In the farang stores, they're imported and usually taste like flavored cardboard - and they're high priced, at around 70 baht for a small fruit.    

 

                I agree with most of the post above.  Bureaucrats are stupid in how they make patent processes difficult and expensive.  They should instead encourage innovation and inventions.  But that's why they're bureaucrats, because they never had an original thought, and they want to control and stifle as much as possible, as well as garner fees.

Aye, it could be pomelo. Missus calls it grapefruit, what's pomelo called in Thai? We're in the middle of nowhere 

 

If you can introduce new or better fruit/plant varieties here you're on a winner, just scale up fast and be the first is my advice. GL.

[boomerangutang]

Thai word for pomelo = somo  (long o's)

 

When I speak with my hill tribe helpers, I call grapefruit by its farang name, or call it 'somo farang'.   If I call it grapefruit, then some Thais will hear the word 'grape', and it may be confusing for them.  

 

There's another plant:  Moringa, or 'Marum' in Thai.  My daughter in California thinks it's a wonder plant, with mega health attributes.  It's from SE Asia, but I haven't yet asked around about it.  If anyone can shed light on it, let us know.   I think it's a large bush or small tree.   Has seed pods which look like lima beans on steroids.

[Hereinthailand]

The most important thing when grafting trees (which isnt rocket science ) is having good/compatible/diseases free rooting stock. Find that and a sharp sterile blade (surgical scalpels are best) and you can do it yourself easily.

[Hereinthailand]

Also get some rooting hormone powder, I like Rootone brand but not sure if you can get it here, I brought a good supply from home last trip.

[grollies]

2 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Thai word for pomelo = somo  (long o's)

 

When I speak with my hill tribe helpers, I call grapefruit by its farang name, or call it 'somo farang'.   If I call it grapefruit, then some Thais will hear the word 'grape', and it may be confusing for them.  

 

There's another plant:  Moringa, or 'Marum' in Thai.  My daughter in California thinks it's a wonder plant, with mega health attributes.  It's from SE Asia, but I haven't yet asked around about it.  If anyone can shed light on it, let us know.   I think it's a large bush or small tree.   Has seed pods which look like lima beans on steroids.

Wifey says it's not somo and is grapefruit (she lived in UK for 25 years so she knows the difference).

 

Marum is ok, eat it gaeng som marum.

 

Growing it here, this tree (pruned about half an hour ago) was a stick in he ground 4 months ago.

 

Wife goes on about its health benefits, it's not bad in gaeng som, scrape out and eat the flesh from the pods after beans removed.

 

 

[Throck]

Sounds great! i have yet to find an avacado in Thailand that tastes even half as good as those back home (California). There's a nice article out of UC Davis that goes over grafting avacado and citrus. It's titled "Budding and Grafting Citrus and Avocados in the Home Garden". I'd upload the pdf, but can't figure out how... but a quick internet search should pull it up.

Regarding patenting plants in Thailand, from what I understand, the process is pretty cumbersome with very little ability to enforce, so most people don't do it. If you really want to pursue, I'd recommend speaking with faculty in the crop science or biotech departments at one of the major AG universities and they should have someone that could guide you. Maejo U. , Chiang Mai U, and Kasetsart U. are three possibilities. Best of luck!

[boomerangutang]

The rural property where the two special trees are, is in Chiang Rai (10 minute drive from downtown).  It's 9 rai and is for sale.  

 

                              Both the avo and the pink grapefruit are the best of around 70 seeds I planted of each type.  Imagine if you had the original Hass Avocado tree and the original Ruby Grapefruit on your own property.  What sort of dollar value would that have?   The two showcase trees I have are arguably as good as those classic types mentioned in this paragraph - possibly even better in some ways (taste, keeping ability, hardiness, etc.)  Just sayin'.  

 

I may set up a blind 'taste test' with some friends.   To do so, I would have to get ahold of some similar fruits in the super market.  It's possible for the avos, but not so for grapefruit, because there are none available in Thailand, as far as I know.

 

Note:  my daughter is a pot farmer in California.  Many farmers there are cloning (rooted cuttings) pot.  There's a rule of thumb that says you shouldn't do it more than five generations, because quality deteriorates.  Perhaps the same is true of fruits.  I've tasted store-bought Hass avos, and though they taste rather good, they seem to be less tasty than the avos from my special tree.  Perhaps there's a freshness issue also.   My avos have a slightly more buttery taste, with the slightest hint of lemon. 

 

                       Anyhow, I'm still somewhat frustrated, because am not having much luck propagating from either tree.  Am open to suggestions.   A hill tribe woman showed my how to propagate citrus, using a better method of branch-rooting, than I had been using.    Maybe I can get her to give me one or two days (for modest payment) to work on my trees.

[Michael Hare]

I think what you need to do for your two fruits, is to try to get Plant Variety Rights.

 

http://www.plantvarietyrights.org/

 

This is a straightforward process but it involves keeping careful records of all the breeding or evaluation you did to get the two improved fruits. You have to have trials showing that your two fruits are botanically different to the other varieties.

 

We have done in Thailand with four new tropical grasses for forage. The selection processes were done in Thailand but the PVR applications were submitted overseas.

 

Or you may just like to register your two fruits. We have also done this with one grass in Thailand but it does not give you protection against other people or companies progating your fruit. PVR does, and if anyone tries to multiple your PVR protected fruits you can sue them.

 

Most of the large vegetable and flower seed companies in Thailand have PVR cultivars.

[boomerangutang]

Thanks Michael Hare for the link and info.   I glanced at the web site and I don't think it's applicable to my situation.  They make mention of seeds, for example; 

Its opening statement: "Plant Variety Rights (PVR) protection supports access to quality seed"

 

and later;

 

"Stability - A plant variety is considered to be stable if it reproduces true to type from one generation to the next."

 

The two fruits I mentioned aren't grown for their seed, and aren't best propagated via seed.  Although grapefruit is somewhat 'true to seed,' avocado (like apples) isn't. 

 

Still, your comments are a step closer to the goal, even though the goal is still murky. 

[boomerangutang]

1 hour ago, Michael Hare said:

I think what you need to do for your two fruits, is to try to get Plant Variety Rights.

 

http://www.plantvarietyrights.org/

 

This is a straightforward process but it involves keeping careful records of all the breeding or evaluation you did to get the two improved fruits. You have to have trials showing that your two fruits are botanically different to the other varieties.

 

We have done in Thailand with four new tropical grasses for forage. The selection processes were done in Thailand but the PVR applications were submitted overseas.

 

Or you may just like to register your two fruits. We have also done this with one grass in Thailand but it does not give you protection against other people or companies progating your fruit. PVR does, and if anyone tries to multiple your PVR protected fruits you can sue them.

 

Most of the large vegetable and flower seed companies in Thailand have PVR cultivars.

Could you give some detail on the tropical grasses you're working with?  Curious.

 

Also;  you may already be apprised, but forage for animals could be addressed with spineless opuntia, commonly known as 'prickly pear cactus'.   I've grown the spineless type as an ornamental, and they grow very strong.  Propagating them is as easy as pie - just let pads lay on the ground, and they'll sprout roots. Poor and dry soil, no problem.  If anyone reading this wants some pads, let me know.  I'll be glad to send them to a Thai address.  You pay postage.