Brit expat dead in Phuket from suspected garden electric shock

[Harold the Great]

Holly Dina! I can't believe thousands of people are not killed by the surface supply from the grid. Am I the only one seeing hundreds of power cables intertwined with people on steel ladders set in puddles while they are pulling new or old wiring in or out! I'm sad for this fellow and I offer no solutions for the infrastructure issues here other than I will continue to engage the local government and offer some financial help to try and affect some structuring and help

[Balance]

8 minutes ago, Formaleins said:

Junction boxes left open, conduit not closed, every single join that is out of site stuck together with insulating tape.....right on, bunch of bodgers! They left my place after a wiring job with 120V on the meter, they had shorted out some of the lives, they wouldn't have it until I took a meter over to the main incoming supply where we had 230V, they had crossed the wires!

 

 

Let's not forget that Thailand, like the majority of countries, uses 50Hz 240-volt electricity in order to boost transmission efficiencies.  In theory, a good idea, but 240 volts is deadly; there is rarely a second chance, unlike 120 volt systems.  

[wvavin]

Everybody knows how safe is Thailand's electrical system.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

I stayed at a hotel in Nakhon Sawan last year which had open (i.e. no lids) electrical junction boxes alongside their swimming pool, one of which was at head height behind a bench about one metre from the pool.  We pointed this out to the reception desk, who thanked us and said they would get it fixed.  Three months later we stayed at the same hotel but had to stop our 10 year-old son from swimming there as the junction boxes were still uncovered.

 

Clearly, they prefer to wat until some one gets electrocuted before spending 50 bahts on plastic covers. We politely made this point to the reception desk again, as they said the manager was not available.  They rarely are, in my experience whenever there is any sign of a complaint.

 

However, a few months later, we were at the same hotel again and found that the junction boxes has now been covered with plastic lids, but as they were twice the proper size, they could not be screwed down in the usual way, so they had been fixed in place with black tape which was coming unstuck in the heat and wet.  Of course if someone does die as a result, it will be put down to bad luck and the hotel will not be named in the unlikely event that it gets reported.

[jollyhangmon]

3 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

Just today at the hotel nearby myself and a mate were swimming and 3 Burmese ( well they weren't speaking Thai ) were fixing a lamp for under the water , how many volts these are I don't know , the cable coming out of the pool to the lamp was thick and had other tape wrapped round it . The same guys are often seen sweeping the lawns . We got out of the water before some one decided it was time to plug it in and switch it on.

Would it of surprised anyone on TV to read  " 2 ferlung got electrocuted in a swimming pool in Maechan , a faulty lamp was likely the cause ? " 

... yeah, actually read exactly that headline repeatedly over the years here ... obviously ZERO changed! 

[Golden Triangle]

RIP sir, so many ways to die in Thailand, sometimes I think <deleted> it, today if I stay in bed I might see tomorrow 

[oldgent]

11 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

RIP sir, so many ways to die in Thailand, sometimes I think <deleted> it, today if I stay in bed I might see tomorrow 

 

I hope the Headlines tomorrow does,nt read...Roof Collapses on TV Member ...

[maxcorrigan]

4 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

When I first stayed in Thailand, the apartment had the ground shorted to the neutral.  I offered to help fix it, but the landlady declined my offer.  

 

Smart Thai Landlord not need help from Stupid renter.  I'm sure it boiled down to just that. ?

Stupid farrang you mean, as Thais seem to think that way!

[HooHaa]

11 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

“We believe that electrical leakage from the power meter box could have somehow made it through or under the corner of the wall. Mr Wilkinson might have touched the wall while he was gardening,”

 

since when does a concrete wall conduct electricity?

 

" ...electricity-supply meter for the house, with a jumble of connected wires hanging underneath."

 

How is this different than anywhere else?

 

RIP.

 

 

 

Wet and filled with rebar.

[paulbj2]

7 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

When I first stayed in Thailand, the apartment had the ground shorted to the neutral.  I offered to help fix it, but the landlady declined my offer.  

 

Smart Thai Landlord not need help from Stupid renter.  I'm sure it boiled down to just that. ?

That is a recognised way to get a good earth. PME protective multiple earthing, it's called. My house in the UK was wired that way by the local electricity board

[bubba45]

There are practically no properly trained Thai electricians. That's why nearly all the work is flawed. Beware. 

[MadMuhummad]

My best mate bought a condo, empty shell. Obviously chose all kitchen appliances. Electric oven, convection microwave, induction cooktop, rangehood, 700l French door fridge. The condo has allege number of 50w halogen lights as well.

Anyway, all was going fine. He took possession of the condo and was happily living there for some time until the oven started having problems. Being a reasponsbly intelligent, semi do-it-yourself kinda guy he thought he'd pull the oven out so the techs didn't damage his black laminated kitchen removing it themselves.

On removal he was absolutely blown away to find ALL kitchen circuits ran off the one 2.5mm twin active!! To top it off the connections were all bare, twisted together & un-soldered. A few quick calcs and the full current draw of the kitchen overloaded that one circuit 4 x over.

so he dials up the developer and gets them in and gives them an education on current draw, current carrying capacities and peak demand.

their answer?

 

"oh well, you don't use everything at once."!!

 

wowee

 

[masuk]

17 hours ago, ThaiKneeTim said:

Concrete will conduct very well if there is even a hint of dampness. The ground is a reasonably good conducter, the conductivity varies according to the geology, when it's high resistance we improve conductivity with earth or ground wires. In my home region the ground is very sandy so doesn't hold moisture, therefore an array of earth wires, or ground mat, it used to lower resistance. 

Never underestimate the importance of the ground wire on electricalsystems and appliances. 

I wish the Thai government would understand this.

[Jonathan Swift]

20 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

“We believe that electrical leakage from the power meter box could have somehow made it through or under the corner of the wall. Mr Wilkinson might have touched the wall while he was gardening,”

 

since when does a concrete wall conduct electricity?

 

" ...electricity-supply meter for the house, with a jumble of connected wires hanging underneath."

 

How is this different than anywhere else?

 

RIP.

 

 

 

The emergency crew was guessing wildly, which they shouldn't do. Right. And even if there was "leakage", electricity has to follow a path to electrical ground through a person's body in order to stop the heart. Otherwise, as they say, it follows the path of least resistance, which if the theory had merit, if the wall were conductive from water or rain, would have discharged through the water/wet wall without delivering a fatal dose. Probably a heart attack, but we don't know, nor does anyone until the autopsy. 

[StevieAus]

16 hours ago, hocuspocus said:

I was going to wire my own new house, then I read about the new electrical regulations so I decided that I would have to hire a Thai electrician but will it be any safer if a Thai electrician does the work? Probably less safe.

That depends on the electrician carrying out the work, I have a brother  in law who is trained and qualified and would trust him to carry out any work but he is perhaps the exception and I know there are persons carrying out electrical work who are not qualified

Recently the Government required all electricians to register and obtain " a license"  to do this they had to produce evidence of their formal tertiary training which is a step in the right direction

[StevieAus]

6 hours ago, paulbj2 said:

That is a recognised way to get a good earth. PME protective multiple earthing, it's called. My house in the UK was wired that way by the local electricity board

Spot on my understanding is the same applies in Australia I think they refer to it as the neutral link

[Wullie Mercer]

17 hours ago, Godang said:

We have appliances that should be earthed but my lady says not a problem in Thailand, luckily the shower and aircon have been earthed.

The biggest problem with electrical installations in Thailand is that there is no earth wire taken from power transformer to individual houses and the Neutral of their power supply transformers are not earthed. This costs money !!!

[Udo Zickler]

If you have no ground, ask a specialist. Hit a 2.5 m long metal stick in the ground and connect the ground cable.

Gesendet von meinem SM-J710F mit Tapatalk

[KarenBravo]

14 hours ago, Balance said:

 

Let's not forget that Thailand, like the majority of countries, uses 50Hz 240-volt electricity in order to boost transmission efficiencies.  In theory, a good idea, but 240 volts is deadly; there is rarely a second chance, unlike 120 volt systems.  

It's not volts that kill, otherwise 1,000,000 volt tasers could not be used.

It's the ampage that's important.

[ThaiKneeTim]

19 hours ago, Godang said:

We have appliances that should be earthed but my lady says not a problem in Thailand, luckily the shower and aircon have been earthed.

Not a problem until there is an earth fault and the only way for the fault current to flow is through the next poor sucker that touches the faulty equipment. 

 

Just so you know, it's not just Thais, I worked in South Sudan for an aid agency, my predecessor wired sockets in the operating theatre without earth, next time I saw him in Nairobi I mentioned it; he said "we don't bother with earth wire in Holland". Errm, yes you do, unless it's double insulated  (The symbol for double insulated is a square within a square.). Just because the standard European plug doesn't have a pin, like the British plug, doesn't mean it isn't earthed.

 

I made sure my pumps, shower, aircon, and the metal framework of the roof are all earthed.

[ThaiKneeTim]

9 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

It's not volts that kill, otherwise 1,000,000 volt tasers could not be used.

It's the ampage that's important.

Not quite true, you can pass a lot of current at low voltage without harm. High voltage, with sufficient current, can cause severe burns. Telephone systems are only 50 volts, but at source they provide high current to power systems, once an arc has been established as a result of a short circuit it's hard to stop. I've had to work on supplies while they're live, and believe me, it's scary stuff, I've seen guys sweating buckets while making the final connection to a new system. 

[ThaiKneeTim]

17 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

When I first stayed in Thailand, the apartment had the ground shorted to the neutral.  I offered to help fix it, but the landlady declined my offer.  

 

Smart Thai Landlord not need help from Stupid renter.  I'm sure it boiled down to just that. ?

The supply companies in the uk use a common neutral/earth, this is for two reasons, 1) to bring the neutral voltage down to zero, and 2) reduces the amount of conducting wire needed. To achieve this the star point of to secondary windings of the pole transformer needs to be grounded. I would advise doing it on a Thai installation as the electrical system doesn't seem to be polarity conscious.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by ThaiKneeTim

[OnTheRun]

21 hours ago, hocuspocus said:

I was going to wire my own new house, then I read about the new electrical regulations so I decided that I would have to hire a Thai electrician but will it be any safer if a Thai electrician does the work? Probably less safe.

I'd suggest you supervise him closely. A friend from a while back was having a house built and he specified he wanted a proper earthing circuit. When he checked some wires at a socket point he found the electrician had just stuck about one meter of earthing cable in the hole to make it look like it was properly earthed. 

[sandemara]

No mention in main story about investigations related to faulty electrical installations or other faulty work by power authorities or electricians that might have contributed to the man's death.  Responsibility, being subject to penalty for faulty work and appropriate compensation for the victim all should be part of the service by power authorities and regulators.  That one person dies as a result of incompetence disguised as professionalism is one too many. How many times a month throughour Thailand do citizens fry spontaneously, but no-one shows any concern or interest in stopping the slaughter.

[paulbj2]

18 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

It's not volts that kill, otherwise 1,000,000 volt tasers could not be used.

It's the ampage that's important.

Well yes and no. Yes, it is the current that kills; anything from 30 milliAmps (0.03 Amps) upwards, being considered potentially lethal. However, it is the voltage that "creates" the current according to Ohm's law: 

The current in Amps = voltage in volts/resistance in Ohms

so for a given resistance the current that passes through that resistance (or through a human body) rises as the voltage rises. So, the current created by a 220 volt supply will be twice that created by a 110 volt supply and yes, 110 volt mains are less likely to kill you that 220 volt mains. The downside of 110 Volt mains supplies is that twice the current is required to do the same amount of work (work is measured in watts and the formula is: Volts x Amps = Watts so as you reduce the voltage, the current required to do the same amount of work increases and it is current that heats up electrical cable so for 110 volts systems, the cables have to be twice the thickness to safely carry the required current compared to 220 volt systems).

 

Years back when I was working in the building industry, I took a 220 volt "belt" with my right hand whilst holding on to an earthed copper central heating pipe with my left hand. It was a very interesting sensation to put it mildly! The "experience" lasted for several seconds before rolled off the live component. When I realised what I had done, I was very surprised indeed to be alive. I laid flat on my back on the floor for 30 minutes or more, with my heartbeat doing stuff like the drummer on a modern jazz album (beat, beat, long pause, beat, pause, beat, beat beat, pause, beat, very long pause, beat, beat, beat; stuff like that) and I was just waiting for my heart to stop; I really thought I had had it! I was working alone at the time and the thought of my clients arriving home from their holidays to find a decomposing dead builder in their house was not a nice one! I am quite sure that should have killed me but for some reason, I survived.

 

The reason that Tasers don't (often) kill is because the requisite 30mA of current needed to kill is simply not available within that type of circuit; they are designed to have only a tiny amount of current available within their circuits to make them safe(ish). Likewise with static electricity; a static "belt" is quite often in the 10s of 1000s of volts or even the 100s of 1000s of volts range but other than making you jump, it does no harm, as there is no significant current available.

 

If you want to enhance your protection from electric shock in a country where there certainly is some rather dubious wiring (my place had a non-water resistant switch for the extractor fan inside the shower cubicle where it could easily get sprayed with water!), then get a Residual Current Circuit Breaker (RCCB or RCBO) fitted. They cost about 3000 Baht but that's cheaper than a funeral. They measure the difference between the current flowing out of the live terminal and returning through the neutral terminal and when the difference exceeds the rated amount, they trip, cutting off the mains very, very fast. In theory, an RCCB rated at 30mA or less will save your life if you get a shock from some faulty appliance. The lower the cut off current the better but below 30mA, nuisance tripping from aircon units starting up can be an issue. Residual Current Circuit Breakers don't rely on an earth for their operation so it doesn't matter if your earth is rubbish or non-existant, they will still save you! This is the one that I have just had fitted to my new place.

 

[paulbj2]

1 hour ago, ThaiKneeTim said:

Not a problem until there is an earth fault and the only way for the fault current to flow is through the next poor sucker that touches the faulty equipment. 

 

Just so you know, it's not just Thais, I worked in South Sudan for an aid agency, my predecessor wired sockets in the operating theatre without earth, next time I saw him in Nairobi I mentioned it; he said "we don't bother with earth wire in Holland". Errm, yes you do, unless it's double insulated  (The symbol for double insulated is a square within a square.). Just because the standard European plug doesn't have a pin, like the British plug, doesn't mean it isn't earthed.

 

I made sure my pumps, shower, aircon, and the metal framework of the roof are all earthed.

The standard European plug has an earth when required. Double insulated appliances (which is most appliances these days) don't have an earth pin on the plug as it is not required. When it is required the earth pin is present. Modern sockets in all the European countries where I have lived (The Netherlands, Belgium, France and Luxembourg) had earth connections available.

[jhonnie]

i  am  an electrician by trade and would encourage all interested in this discussion to read this very informative Wiki on the subject; i found the reporting on supposedly safer 120 volt Ac circuits particularly  interesting where the article discusses how  lower voltage 120 v circuits can create a grab effect rather than  the jolt of 240 volt  which tends to throw you and   disconnect you from a conductor, whereas the 120 volt can keep    you connected and increase the chances of  experiencing ventricular fibrillation(Ventricular fibrillation (V-fib or VF) is a type of cardiac arrhythmia characterized by the heart quivering rather than pumping due to disorganized electrical activity 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock

[owenm]

22 hours ago, toofarnorth said:

Just today at the hotel nearby myself and a mate were swimming and 3 Burmese ( well they weren't speaking Thai ) were fixing a lamp for under the water , how many volts these are I don't know , the cable coming out of the pool to the lamp was thick and had other tape wrapped round it . The same guys are often seen sweeping the lawns . We got out of the water before some one decided it was time to plug it in and switch it on.

Would it of surprised anyone on TV to read  " 2 ferlung got electrocuted in a swimming pool in Maechan , a faulty lamp was likely the cause ? " 

These illumination lights are usually only 12v and no possibility of electrocution. 

Definitely not like having 220-240v system and getting fried if zapped.. 

[jojothai]

23 hours ago, Catkiwi said:

Some good, most bad in my experience. If you have a basic knowlege of wireing, earthing etc let them do the work but check and circuit test every step.

Most definitely good advice if you have the basic knowledge. I am an engineer and have a good understanding of the basics.

When i had my own house built in the sticks, I used a local electrician and I checked most everything I could, and fixed any problems.

There were some, but not as many as I feared.

The wiring was complex and I consider that the local guy actually did a good job. 

 

For earthing, the local guy did not consider that we needed much, however i insisted and got the most important items connected, including external lighting.

Have had problems with the outside lights shorting so it is very important.

Had to put in my own earth ground rod. You can buy them  at the electrical shops.

 

FYI, I also got a lot of help in understanding local practices from people on Thai visa forum.

[Foozool]

2 hours ago, jhonnie said:

i  am  an electrician by trade and would encourage all interested in this discussion to read this very informative Wiki on the subject; i found the reporting on supposedly safer 120 volt Ac circuits particularly  interesting where the article discusses how  lower voltage 120 v circuits can create a grab effect rather than  the jolt of 240 volt  which tends to throw you and   disconnect you from a conductor, whereas the 120 volt can keep    you connected and increase the chances of  experiencing ventricular fibrillation(Ventricular fibrillation (V-fib or VF) is a type of cardiac arrhythmia characterized by the heart quivering rather than pumping due to disorganized electrical activity 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock

120V is much less killer than 240, but there are some waste in long distance. Higher voltage won't require current as much as 120V needs for running electrical apliences or other things. Therefore size of wires are smaller rather than 120V that needs more thicker wires for same apliences. 

Saves money over wiring and transformers. 

But safety is a big issue. However it is not a big concern here in Thailand.