Don Muang To Re-open ?

[rogerdee123]

Don Muang airport could reopen to ease congestion ... Bangkok Post 21 Dec 2006

Don Muang airport, which closed in late September after 92 years of service, may return as Bangkok's second airport because Suvarnabhumi airport is now congested. Deputy Transport Minister Sansern Wongcha-um said passenger and airline inconvenience at Suvarnabhumi airport had prompted airline operators to demand Don Muang airport be reopened, and revive a plan to use both Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports to serve Bangkok's air traffic.

//see Bangkok Post website for full story//

[Soju]

An AoT source said a prompt decision on reopening Don Muang could allow Bangkok to serve heavy traffic during the upcoming New Year and Chinese New Year festivals, as Suvarnabhumi airport could not handle any more flights.

Can someone buy this AoT person a clue. New Year is just 10 days away! You want to move some of the LCCs back to Don Muang when masses of people are coming in and already bought tickets on connecting flights and now will miss their flights due to having to transfer across town? Not to mention creating mass confusion about which airport their flight is departing from? Not a very bright plan if you ask me. I'm all for allowing the LCCs to move back to Don Muang if they want to, but expecting to complete a move in 10 days is simply ludicrous.

[STEELINOX]

An AoT source said a prompt decision on reopening Don Muang could allow Bangkok to serve heavy traffic during the upcoming New Year and Chinese New Year festivals, as Suvarnabhumi airport could not handle any more flights.

Can someone buy this AoT person a clue. New Year is just 10 days away! You want to move some of the LCCs back to Don Muang when masses of people are coming in and already bought tickets on connecting flights and now will miss their flights due to having to transfer across town? Not to mention creating mass confusion about which airport their flight is departing from? Not a very bright plan if you ask me. I'm all for allowing the LCCs to move back to Don Muang if they want to, but expecting to complete a move in 10 days is simply ludicrous.

(Roulette) "Will you please put this hundred dollar bill on 'black' please ! "

If my plane on friday the 29th lands at DM I win double right !?

Thanks,

Randy

[dwwin]

Don Muang airport could reopen to ease congestion ... Bangkok Post 21 Dec 2006

''Today the government has admitted that Suvarnabhumi is congested and has reached full capacity since its opening just three months ago,'' he said.

Re-using Don Muang would relieve traffic at Suvarnabhumi, and could allow traffic of low-cost airlines to grow 20-30% annually in the next 4-5 years.

Udom Tantiprasongchai, chief executive of Orient Thai Airlines which runs the One-Two-Go budget carrier, said Don Muang should be reopened to serve domestic flights by low-cost airlines

I've read it too. 30 or so years of planning and it reaches full capacity after 2 bloody month.

When I said in another thread that this think is some sort of a mess (even so I didn't say it directly) I got fire from all sides. Just do me a favour and don't blame Toxin. He wanted to build a city around it. Others are talking about expanding it to 6!!!! lanes. And others again get fired 2-3 days after they got the WP and TL. Some mess up the SET. Is it possible that LOC is in a terrible mess.

[pbkk]

arse/elbow

[salty]

Piss up / Brewery.

[Sing_Sling]

Plans to be discussed are to have the budget airlines land at Don M.

Seriously, only in Thailand can such a massive cock-up be the order of the day . . . kind of makes the Zimbabwean Econimic Department look professional.

[andy1308]

When I flew over DM recently on the way back to Suvarnabhumi I noticed the old Tristars of Thai Sky Airlines still parked on the apron. I wonder if there is anything by way of Air Traffic Control coverage or other services at DM to (a) enable those planes to leave, or ( as a back-up should anything prevent planes from landing at Suvarnabhumi ?

[baboon]

When I flew over DM recently on the way back to Suvarnabhumi I noticed the old Tristars of Thai Sky Airlines still parked on the apron. I wonder if there is anything by way of Air Traffic Control coverage or other services at DM to (a) enable those planes to leave, or ( as a back-up should anything prevent planes from landing at Suvarnabhumi ?

As far as I am aware, Don Muang is still technically open to air traffic. Personally, I would like to see it reopen. Why take years and spend a fortune on expanding Suvarnaphumi when

a. Suvrnaphumi as it is now is not even finished yet.

b. There is a perfectly servicable airport up the road capable of handling 30 million plus passengers a year?

London, New York,Paris, Manila etc. seem to mange with more than one airport. Why not Bangkok?

[JimsKnight]

When I flew over DM recently on the way back to Suvarnabhumi I noticed the old Tristars of Thai Sky Airlines still parked on the apron. I wonder if there is anything by way of Air Traffic Control coverage or other services at DM to (a) enable those planes to leave, or ( as a back-up should anything prevent planes from landing at Suvarnabhumi ?

As far as I am aware, Don Muang is still technically open to air traffic. Personally, I would like to see it reopen. Why take years and spend a fortune on expanding Suvarnaphumi when

a. Suvrnaphumi as it is now is not even finished yet.

b. There is a perfectly servicable airport up the road capable of handling 30 million plus passengers a year?

London, New York,Paris, Manila etc. seem to mange with more than one airport. Why not Bangkok?

This is indeed something I cannot understand either, everyones like oohhhh we've got this new airport and poor old DM is just kicked aside. Other countries must be laughing at the fact Bangkok has only one major airport. A mark of a cutting edge capital city is its airports. Having only one makes it look over forty years in the past.

[britmaveric]

DM reopening would be welcome news!!

[Rinrada]

When I flew over DM recently on the way back to Suvarnabhumi I noticed the old Tristars of Thai Sky Airlines still parked on the apron. I wonder if there is anything by way of Air Traffic Control coverage or other services at DM to (a) enable those planes to leave, or ( as a back-up should anything prevent planes from landing at Suvarnabhumi ?

Wotcha mean OLD....

If you look carefully next time you will see that Thai Airways have a couple of pilots and mechanics sleeping in them just in case they need them as a back up on their Bangok to London service...

The femail caddies will double up as temp air hostesses...

[STEELINOX]

When I flew over DM recently on the way back to Suvarnabhumi I noticed the old Tristars of Thai Sky Airlines still parked on the apron. I wonder if there is anything by way of Air Traffic Control coverage or other services at DM to (a) enable those planes to leave, or ( as a back-up should anything prevent planes from landing at Suvarnabhumi ?

As far as I am aware, Don Muang is still technically open to air traffic. Personally, I would like to see it reopen. Why take years and spend a fortune on expanding Suvarnaphumi when

a. Suvrnaphumi as it is now is not even finished yet.

b. There is a perfectly servicable airport up the road capable of handling 30 million plus passengers a year?

London, New York,Paris, Manila etc. seem to mange with more than one airport. Why not Bangkok?

You just answered your own question - If BKK were to open DM again they may open an even bigger can of worms, and that is on the order of planes landing at wrong airports! Can you imagine ATC routing your "inter flight" to DM instead of SVB and vis vers ! It is just a ticking bomb - watch this go off ! LOL !

I hope they dont try to pull anything til after my trip is over in a few weeks; cross my fingers on that one - LOL !

Thanks,

Randy

[xbusman]

Thats silly, planes dont land at the wrong airport. Los Angeles has about four major airports and three minor ones that are almost on top of each other. ATC and modern GPS keep planes within a few feet of where they are sposed to be. No one can fault Thailand ATC or tower, they are some of the very best to be able to keep Don Muang running at about 110% of capacity for over three years without even a close call other than some idiot pilots clipping wings while around the gates. Two airports would be a piece of cake with the experience level and technology available and operating.

The key would be the ability to shuttle between the two airports. With traffic so horrendous and the distance so great, it would cause a real problem for transfers. Other regional airports next to international hubs have pretty good shuttle service.

[ThaiGoon]

I hope they will reopen Don Muang too. It just makes much more sense. As for the link between the two airports, the current gov't has already approved the plan to construct another elevated rail line from Don Muang to Bang Sue. The only missing link to the one that's currently under construction is the line from Bang Sue to Payathai. This part is already in the master plan though, but they just need to resolve some issues that involve running past the King's palace (Chitlada Rahothan palace), and the relocation of a couple slum communities.

Anyway the whole airport link probably won't be completed within the next five or six years. So, in the meantime, I guess travelleres who have to connect their flights at Don Muang will have to use the express way and Don Muang Toll way or something.

[khaosai]

Thats silly, planes dont land at the wrong airport. Los Angeles has about four major airports and three minor ones that are almost on top of each other. ATC and modern GPS keep planes within a few feet of where they are sposed to be. No one can fault Thailand ATC or tower, they are some of the very best to be able to keep Don Muang running at about 110% of capacity for over three years without even a close call other than some idiot pilots clipping wings while around the gates. Two airports would be a piece of cake with the experience level and technology available and operating.

The key would be the ability to shuttle between the two airports. With traffic so horrendous and the distance so great, it would cause a real problem for transfers. Other regional airports next to international hubs have pretty good shuttle service.

Hi xbusman,

aircraft do land at the wrong airports. It generally happens in unfamiliar surroundings whilst flying a visual approach in less than ideal visibility, and with runways orientated the same direction. An example being Karachi where there is a military airport close by and where the visibility at the airport is generally reduced due to smoke/haze.

Computers play a large part in aviation now, and the old adage of rubbish in, rubbish out is a potential problem. Take the ICAO codes for the Bangkok airports. The old one is VTBD, and the new one is VTBS, a difference of one letter. If you enter the information into the flight managment computer incorrectly then the aircraft thinks you want to fly to that destination, or for that matter from that departure point. There are however many procedures in place to prevent these sort of things happening but from time to time mistakes do happen.

With regards to Thai air traffic control, sometimes communication can be a problem, otherwise they are okay.

Rgds.

Edited December 22, 2006 by khaosai

[xbusman]

Okay, I was being a bit silly as well, I know that it happens. We had a 737 come into CMH back in the 80s and chose OSU airport precisely for the reasons you list. A real trick to get that bird off a runway built for a King Air. But it is almost unheard of these days with GPS and the navigation systems in use today. I have not checked the charts but I am pretty sure there is no airport within VFR visibility of BKK. The point being is that having two airports is pretty standard stuff and statistically is a non entity in terms of airport management and safety.

Two airports would not be a problem and in fact a highly favorable solution for diverts and LCC carriers. I even think the shuttle could be managed effectively with a few dozen air con busses and using the expressway the whole way. For the googlezillions of baht it would take to lay down two more runways and a LCC terminal, you could double airport capacity by opening DMK and running a few busses.

[chuchok]

arse/elbow

Piss up / Brewery.

Erection / Monastery

[jetzie]

hello, may iknow whats the url to the post on the airport in bangkok post ?

[lingyai]

Don Muang, how I love thee...

easy to get to, just take expressway....

pull right up to the front, very close to the checkin counter....

train station across the street....

bathrooms are fine....

food is cheap...(for an airport)...

depature tax 500...well not that great but better than 700 that it will soon be...

and lastly and name you can actual pronounce with ease...

[Spee]

depature tax 500...well not that great but better than 700 that it will soon be...

I wish people would quit whinging about the <deleted>' departure tax. It's a pittance for money saved elsewhere during travels in LoS. Sure $20USD is a bit excessive perhaps, but it's not as bad as many other places.

If you want to look at real examples of "highway robbery" there are many other better examples:

- Tokyo Narita: only reasonable ways into town are Narita Express train or Limousine Bus, roughly $35USD and $30USD, respectively, each way.

- Japanese taxis: approximately $6USD just to open the door and get in. Taxi to Tokyo from Narita, fugettaboutit.

- "Free" rental car shuttles at any US airport are anything but free. They charge you about $10-$15USD for the privilege of getting driven to/from the terminal to the rental pickup location.

- Rental car surcharges (read "taxes") typically amounting to between 20-30% of the total charge at the large US airport.

- A few years ago I went to Turkey for a weekend in Istanbul. I had to buy a visa at the airport. $40USD for the privilege of spending money there all weekend.

So what the heck. At my favorite eating corner at Ploen Chit (Sukhumvit & Wireless), I can get all the fresh fruit and hot food I can eat and still have a hard time spending more than 80ThB. There are few if any places in the world where the same can be true. If that means I have to pay a few more baht to leave the country, then so be it. Visits overall are still very reasonably priced, despite some of the attempts to do some gouging at the airport.

[zink]

depature tax 500...well not that great but better than 700 that it will soon be...

I wish people would quit whinging about the <deleted>' departure tax. It's a pittance for money saved elsewhere during travels in LoS. Sure $20USD is a bit excessive perhaps, but it's not as bad as many other places.

If you want to look at real examples of "highway robbery" there are many other better examples:

- Tokyo Narita: only reasonable ways into town are Narita Express train or Limousine Bus, roughly $35USD and $30USD, respectively, each way.

- Japanese taxis: approximately $6USD just to open the door and get in. Taxi to Tokyo from Narita, fugettaboutit.

- "Free" rental car shuttles at any US airport are anything but free. They charge you about $10-$15USD for the privilege of getting driven to/from the terminal to the rental pickup location.

- Rental car surcharges (read "taxes") typically amounting to between 20-30% of the total charge at the large US airport.

- A few years ago I went to Turkey for a weekend in Istanbul. I had to buy a visa at the airport. $40USD for the privilege of spending money there all weekend.

So what the heck. At my favorite eating corner at Ploen Chit (Sukhumvit & Wireless), I can get all the fresh fruit and hot food I can eat and still have a hard time spending more than 80ThB. There are few if any places in the world where the same can be true. If that means I have to pay a few more baht to leave the country, then so be it. Visits overall are still very reasonably priced, despite some of the attempts to do some gouging at the airport.

I don't understand why some people talk about cost of visa on arrival when the discussion is about airport tax. Cost of visa on arrival in Thailand is about $27, that's not cheap either and it's higher in e.g. Cambodia. It has been mentioned before that the 700B departure tax would be higher than in most countries in the region (Singapore, Malaysia, Vietnam).

About the transportation cost: in Singapore passengers can buy 33B ($S1.4) MRT (subway) ticket to reach any MRT station in the city from the airport.

[Richard W]

Don Muang, how I love thee...

and lastly and name you can actual pronounce with ease...

Actually, I think Suvarnabhumi is easier for most Farangs to pronounce than Don Muang (note the ambiguous transcription of both vowels). It's just that the connection between the Romanised spelling and the pronunciation is less obvious.

[aussiestyle1983]

DM reopening would be welcome news!!

I agree.

Landing in DM felt alot more like being in Thailand than it feels when you arrive in the new dump which (especially for real tourist, not sexpats) is in the middle of nowhere.

[dwwin]

I have no problem with Nong Ngu How.

Now read this:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/25Dec2006_news01.php

[lingyai]

depature tax 500...well not that great but better than 700 that it will soon be...

I wish people would quit whinging about the <deleted>' departure tax. It's a pittance for money saved elsewhere during travels in LoS. Sure $20USD is a bit excessive perhaps, but it's not as bad as many other places.

If you want to look at real examples of "highway robbery" there are many other better examples:

- Tokyo Narita: only reasonable ways into town are Narita Express train or Limousine Bus, roughly $35USD and $30USD, respectively, each way.

- Japanese taxis: approximately $6USD just to open the door and get in. Taxi to Tokyo from Narita, fugettaboutit.

- "Free" rental car shuttles at any US airport are anything but free. They charge you about $10-$15USD for the privilege of getting driven to/from the terminal to the rental pickup location.

- Rental car surcharges (read "taxes") typically amounting to between 20-30% of the total charge at the large US airport.

- A few years ago I went to Turkey for a weekend in Istanbul. I had to buy a visa at the airport. $40USD for the privilege of spending money there all weekend.

So what the heck. At my favorite eating corner at Ploen Chit (Sukhumvit & Wireless), I can get all the fresh fruit and hot food I can eat and still have a hard time spending more than 80ThB. There are few if any places in the world where the same can be true. If that means I have to pay a few more baht to leave the country, then so be it. Visits overall are still very reasonably priced, despite some of the attempts to do some gouging at the airport.

Um, when you pay 500 and soon 700 baht to Malaysia when your ticket cost only about 1,500 baht it does get quite annoying.

Second, so what if it is more in other countries. Minimum wage in the US is the same or more per hour than it is here per day. I don't mind paying 500 baht departure tax most of the time, but flying to malaysia or another close country it is a tad annoying, 700 is too much. If one is flying to a country that borders Thailand (and add singapore) there should have a lower fee.

[sbk]

I have no problem with Nong Ngu How.

Now read this:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/25Dec2006_news01.php

Which is your favorite part of the article?

This one:

The report said the airport's information technology facilities were incomplete and the upper floors of the car park building have no drains, causing rain water to flow into elevator shafts.

This one:

There were many cracks in the airport's taxiways, some serious and some not, and repairs would be time-consuming, he said. Many operations staff also have no expertise in using their equipment.

or this one?

An inexperienced contractor operated transformers that supply power to visiting aircraft and six transformers had burnt out. The cost of digging ditches around the airport was inflated to three billion baht and hiring security guards to five billion baht.

Cracks in the runways. Hmmm... I do seem to recall a certain cracks issue in the past.

Asia Media:

Tuesday, August 16, 2005

Airports of Thailand (AoT) and New Bangkok International Airport (NBIA) have filed a criminal libel lawsuit against Post Publishing Plc and the editor of the Bangkok Post, alleging defamation by last Tuesday's news report that there were severe cracks on Suvarnabhumi airport runways.

The Nation:

Published on January 19, 2006

Airports of Thailand Plc has refused to endorse the Suvarnabhumi Airport runway hand-over, after a cracks on the west runway were found. Deputy Transport Minister General Chaiyanan Charoensiri admitted that he has been informed of the six-millimetre-wide cracks, which affect 800 square metres of the west runway used for take-offs and landings. “Preliminary discussions with the contractor showed it did not mix a polymer substance with the concrete to strengthen the surface. The runway has developed cracks after test flights,” he told reporters yesterday.

Transport Minsister Pongsak Ruktapongpisal said he had not been informed of any cracks and was too busy with other issues to investigate the matter at present.

“But we [development agencies]regularly meet on Tuesdays. We could discuss it then.”

Surachit Surapongchai, senior executive vice president of AOT, however, insisted the crack along the white lines painted down the middle of the runway is really small.

Thai News Agency also reported that he referred to comments by Japanese engineers who said the crack is a normal phenomenon for airports, which could be taken care of through daily or weekly maintenance.

“I insist that the construction is in line with the designer’s specifications and that this crack will not pose safety risks,” he said.

I wonder what is happening with that lawsuit now.

[dwwin]

Actually the crack thing is my favourite. The BKKPost fired two reporters and instandly stoped reporting anything bad about Toxin.

The chief editor and the owner couldn't possibly have had the tounges any deeper in Toxin's xxxx.

The last I heard about the crack lawsuit was that the judge was very much on the reporter's side and initially ordered the Post to pay 2 or so million each in compansation. But that was quite a while ago. Anybody any updates?

I've mentioned it in another thread already that I've spent most of my life on huge construction projects, incl. airports. To me it appears that we can't be talking about cracks in a runway of a brand new airport cos things like this simply don't exist.

[ilyushin]

Also welcome Don Muang back in service.

[dwwin]

The Cobra Swamp simply puts me off. It should technically not be possible to design and build chaos. But obviously the thais know how to.