Evaporation or leak?

[Naam]

15 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

You think a pool in the shade can evaporate 0,5cm per day?

it can lose much more. you said the water temperature is 32-35ºC. we have presently night low temperatures of 26ºC. this is a delta t of 6-8ºC! then there is usage with moving water and most probably an airblower = another cause for evaporation. and if you are American using the ridiculous "kneewarmer" swimming trunks you are slowly emptying your pool just by going in and out  

 

my pool is "shaded" (indoor, no sun) and loses 4-5cm per week with a delta t of only 2ºC. 

[janclaes47]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

my pool is "shaded" (indoor, no sun) and loses 4-5cm per week with a delta t of only 2ºC. 

 

In that case I would get the bucket out to do the test.

[grollies]

12 minutes ago, Naam said:

it can lose much more. you said the water temperature is 32-35ºC. we have presently night low temperatures of 26ºC. this is a delta t of 6-8ºC! then there is usage with moving water and most probably an airblower = another cause for evaporation. and if you are American using the ridiculous "kneewarmer" swimming trunks you are slowly emptying your pool just by going in and out  

 

my pool is "shaded" (indoor, no sun) and loses 4-5cm per week with a delta t of only 2ºC. 

Your pool's leaking.

[ChomDo]

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

it can lose much more. you said the water temperature is 32-35ºC. we have presently night low temperatures of 26ºC. this is a delta t of 6-8ºC! then there is usage with moving water and most probably an airblower = another cause for evaporation. and if you are American using the ridiculous "kneewarmer" swimming trunks you are slowly emptying your pool just by going in and out  

 

my pool is "shaded" (indoor, no sun) and loses 4-5cm per week with a delta t of only 2ºC. 

Well the funniest thing is that the pool company who built the pool admitted that even 0,5 cm per day is too much and said it's leaking for sure. So in the end we didn't pay them some 20 % of the total cost because they were incapable of fixing it. There were other reasons of course too for us not having to pay them the full sum.

 

I mean they would be the last people to admit that the pool leaks as it would mean that either they would spend a long time fixing it or leave without the money we owed them. 

[Naam]

4 hours ago, grollies said:

Your pool's leaking.

no it's not! the high evaporation is caused by the low humidity of the airconditioned ambiente and the 52ºC hot water during the 2½ hours of daily heating. when we are out of the country (no AC, no heating) we lose around 2cm in 3-4 weeks. i could solve the problem caused by heating but i'm too lazy and busy with other things. water is replaced by our well, i.e. no water cost.

[grollies]

20 minutes ago, Naam said:

no it's not! the high evaporation is caused by the low humidity of the airconditioned ambiente and the 52ºC hot water during the 2½ hours of daily heating. when we are out of the country (no AC, no heating) we lose around 2cm in 3-4 weeks. i could solve the problem caused by heating but i'm too lazy and busy with other things. water is replaced by our well, i.e. no water cost.

My comment was based on your assertion that your pool was loosing 4-5cm per week with a dT of 2degC. 

 

See post #31

 

With that much evaporation it must be raining indoors

 

If my pool was loosing 2" a week, even though outdoors, I'd be seriously worried.

Edited May 11, 2017 by grollies

[Naam]

1 hour ago, grollies said:

My comment was based on your assertion that your pool was loosing 4-5cm per week with a dT of 2degC. 

delta t is in my case secondary. in context i should have mentioned the main reasons.

 

the pool in our Central Florida home had sometimes an evaporation loss of 3cm per day. we had 96m² of solar panels and tried to keep the pool at 27ºC even when night temperatures were close to freezing point. needless to say that this required sunny days and 7 hours heating time (separate pump for solar bypassing filter). 

[ChomDo]

By the way with all this rain coming down (in Bangkok rains heavy several times a day now) do you cover your outdoor pool or just let it be and add more chlorine and algaecide?

[grollies]

1 hour ago, ChomDo said:

By the way with all this rain coming down (in Bangkok rains heavy several times a day now) do you cover your outdoor pool or just let it be and add more chlorine and algaecide?

Mines about 75% covered from rain (50% depending on the wind direction).

 

I add more sodium chlorite and give the filter an extra backwash if I need to drop the level at all. Rain also lowers the pH.

[ChomDo]

21 hours ago, grollies said:

Mines about 75% covered from rain (50% depending on the wind direction).

 

I add more sodium chlorite and give the filter an extra backwash if I need to drop the level at all. Rain also lowers the pH.

 

21 hours ago, grollies said:

Mines about 75% covered from rain (50% depending on the wind direction).

 

I add more sodium chlorite and give the filter an extra backwash if I need to drop the level at all. Rain also lowers the pH.

The weather is really unusual for mid May now. Been raining heavy all night and my pool's water level has gone up 10cm during the night. Well I'll just drain some out and get more chemicals. So far I've only been adding chlorine (about 2 table spoons every 2 days for my 2x3 meter pool).

[ChomDo]

Hi guys. I'm sure you can help me with this one. Any idea how much electricity consumption goes into a tiny pool that I have (2x3m). The pumps currently run 8 hours a day and jacuzzi maybe 1 hour per day. I would have thought my electricity bill will go up like a few hundred bath per month but it's gone up 2000b per month. This can't be the cost of running a tiny pool right? I just can't recall that I would have used the AC's more or anything so the only thing that I can think of is the pool.

[Naam]

3 hours ago, ChomDo said:

The pumps currently run 8 hours a day

what capacity have these pumps? and why do you run pumpS (plural) for a mini-pool?

[ChomDo]

29 minutes ago, Naam said:

what capacity have these pumps? and why do you run pumpS (plural) for a mini-pool?

Actually I just checked that the pump I have is Emaux SS075 (0.75kW) so I guess running it 8 hours means a consumption of 6000 W per day (750wx8hrs) right? That should not affect my electricity bill much.

 

Why do I run pumps? Well I guess for the obvious reason. I want the water to be nice, clean and clear. This is an outdoor pool in direct sunlight and rain. What would the water look like in a few days if I didn't run the pumps at all. 

 

The pool company that built the pool set the timers for the pump from 8am to 11am and 4pm to 9pm. Since the pool is so small I think I'll reduce to 4-5 hours per day.    

[janclaes47]

16 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

Actually I just checked that the pump I have is Emaux SS075 (0.75kW) so I guess running it 8 hours means a consumption of 6000 W per day (750wx8hrs) right? That should not affect my electricity bill much.

I thought 180Kw a month would amount to almost 1000 Baht, and that is not including the use of the jacuzzi pump which probably will be more powerful.

 

Ad to that that we are in the hottest part of the year, so your aircon will have to work harder to achieve the same temperature, then the electricity that has been used to build the pool and almost 2000 Baht sounds right to me.

[Naam]

27 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

Why do I run pumps? Well I guess for the obvious reason. I want the water to be nice, clean and clear.

please be a wee bit more precise. you have pumpS = more than one besides the Jacuzzi pump? or one pump which draws 0.75kWh which filters the water?

Edited May 26, 2017 by Naam

[Naam]

28 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

Since the pool is so small I think I'll reduce to 4-5 hours per day.

that might work but space pumping time more than twice, i.e. 1hour on / one hour off.

[ChomDo]

9 minutes ago, Naam said:

please be a wee bit more precise. you have pumpS = more than one besides the Jacuzzi pump? or one pump which draws 0.75kWh which filters the water?

Oh sorry, I was all the time talking about one pump (which is 0.75kWh). So I have one pump for filtering water. Of course the jacuzzi pump is another thing but I was mainly talking about the main pump now since the jacuzzi is not on that much. 

[ChomDo]

2 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

Oh sorry, I was all the time talking about one pump (which is 0.75kWh). So I have one pump for filtering water. Of course the jacuzzi pump is another thing but I was mainly talking about the main pump now since the jacuzzi is not on that much. 

Yes my mistake I did say pumps in the original question. I get it now . I meant one main pump for filtering.

[ChomDo]

35 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

I thought 180Kw a month would amount to almost 1000 Baht, and that is not including the use of the jacuzzi pump which probably will be more powerful.

 

Ad to that that we are in the hottest part of the year, so your aircon will have to work harder to achieve the same temperature, then the electricity that has been used to build the pool and almost 2000 Baht sounds right to me.

Hmm yes actually that's correct right. If the unit price is around 4.5 then 180x4.5=810b. But isn't it actually complicated to calculate what portion of your electric bill actually goes to the pool. Doesn't the unit price become more expensive the more electricity you consume per month? Of course this doesn't really matter so much now that I know how many kW my pool pump consumes currently per month. Could be somewhere around 1000b with the pump running 8 hours.  

[kannot]

On 5/11/2017 at 4:54 AM, Naam said:

i would like to hear one rational explanation how chunks of whatever matter gets into pipes. This Is Thailand?

Im  so  happy  that I learnt  quickly  that if you want anything done properly in Thailand is to do it yourself, I did  all my own plumbing and  chose the thicker  walled pvc  pipe as many Thais here use the 5bar stuff, I used the 13  bar just for durability and strength. Also used the better type  of  glue not the watery stuff but the stuff you get in tubes, all joints sanded and then wiped clean with thinner (cellulose not turpentine).......as you saw before in my photo......never had a  single  problem, in fact pvc is the easiest material to work with  and always surprises me when they ferrrrrrrrrk it  up.

You can  tell a lot  about work quality if the worker is tidy and clean and having spent 30 years with a  decorating co. I owned in the UK cleanliness was absolutely paramount for any decent finish

Edited June 21, 2017 by kannot

[carlyai]

Definitely not a normal Isaan installation. Ahhh, but wait...is that the hint of black tape on the top of that bore/pipe thingy? And wait again, I've notice more black tape. Still tooo near for Thailand, And, And, you've got spacing between the tiles. No earth wire on the metal parts...shame. Nice job . [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[kannot]

9 hours ago, carlyai said:

Definitely not a normal Isaan installation. Ahhh, but wait...is that the hint of black tape on the top of that bore/pipe thingy? And wait again, I've notice more black tape. Still tooo near for Thailand, And, And, you've got spacing between the tiles. No earth wire on the metal parts...shame. Nice job .

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

The black tape covers over the nylon rope  holding the well pump up in the bore its serves no electrical purpose, cablings all earthed with 2  metre rod just outside the wall and all  with elcb's in  the  box,  the Manifold is stainless from the USA, the non return valve is brass, the tank is Grundfos as is the pressure switch, the twin socket on the wall it  all plugs into are 3  pin with switches  built  in. Theres  also a 4  bar pressure relief  valve which  you cant see in the photo just in case it  all goes beserk.

Cable down to the well is 4  core  inc earth crimped  on then  heat shrinked to pump with 3  layers then each wrapped in that self amalgamating tape then all four wrapped again  which when it arrived with the  suppliers cable he had sniped off the earth!! I replaced the lot 55 metres  deep 

The  100 metre  cable from the  supply is  buried underground its 10mm NYY inside 40mm hdpe...............im guessing its "fairly  safe".............the  staff member died on the job!!

It all sits inside this building ( which I had to construct myself) with the cctv camera so no one steals  my water, ive got two wells this is the  main "best"  supply 4-5000 lit hour tested in BKK drinkable but high mineral content have to add water softener  ( see other thread) Some construction photos, staff there just to mix  concrete, too stupid to do anything else and even then concreting can be challenging for him, either too wet or  too dry, a good  kid but thick as a plank.

Edited June 21, 2017 by kannot

[carlyai]

Beautiful job Kannot. [emoji3]

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[Crossy]

That pump house is better than some many most all of the homes in our village

 

Great job.

[grollies]

7 hours ago, kannot said:

The black tape covers over the nylon rope  holding the well pump up in the bore its serves no electrical purpose, cablings all earthed with 2  metre rod just outside the wall and all  with elcb's in  the  box,  the Manifold is stainless from the USA, the non return valve is brass, the tank is Grundfos as is the pressure switch, the twin socket on the wall it  all plugs into are 3  pin with switches  built  in. Theres  also a 4  bar pressure relief  valve which  you cant see in the photo just in case it  all goes beserk.

Cable down to the well is 4  core  inc earth crimped  on then  heat shrinked to pump with 3  layers then each wrapped in that self amalgamating tape then all four wrapped again  which when it arrived with the  suppliers cable he had sniped off the earth!! I replaced the lot 55 metres  deep 

The  100 metre  cable from the  supply is  buried underground its 10mm NYY inside 40mm hdpe...............im guessing its "fairly  safe".............the  staff member died on the job!!

It all sits inside this building ( which I had to construct myself) with the cctv camera so no one steals  my water, ive got two wells this is the  main "best"  supply 4-5000 lit hour tested in BKK drinkable but high mineral content have to add water softener  ( see other thread) Some construction photos, staff there just to mix  concrete, too stupid to do anything else and even then concreting can be challenging for him, either too wet or  too dry, a good  kid but thick as a plank.

Do you have a big problem with water theft where you live?

[kannot]

2 hours ago, grollies said:

Do you have a big problem with water theft where you live?

nah  just  kidding, ill give em an egg cup  full if they want it, the camera is  just there so i can see whats  going on around the land as its 15 rai and often saves  running out to do something as I can check before  waddling over there especially when its at the far end  of the  land, got  four in various  places all rotatable works  thru wifi from main house, cheap quick and pretty reliable, am  currently  in the Uk but  can eaves  drop and see if the  staff is doing what he  is  supposed  to be or  not.

[ChomDo]

Just to update on my pool leaking problems. We found that there was some leakage trough the pool light cable and had the cables and lights newly installed. The guys (electricians not pool specialists) thought it would be a good idea to also block the air holes in the pool light case with powder lining (tile grout) and around the pool light so that no water can even get to under the light case. I've been wondering why pool lights even have those air holes for water to go in but I guess they are there for some good reason? That's why I'm a bit concerned of having it sealed now. I was trying to find info on this and some website mentioned that water needs to surround the whole light for it to not overheat. But this is a LED light so it doesn't overheat anyway right?

 

Any ideas about this? Should I open the air holes in the light case?

[Crossy]

The conduit from the back of the lights should terminate above the pool water level so the water should not escape that way. It's quite normal for the tube to be full of water.

 

These are low voltage lights aren't they?

 

[ChomDo]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

The conduit from the back of the lights should terminate above the pool water level so the water should not escape that way. It's quite normal for the tube to be full of water.

 

These are low voltage lights aren't they?

 

Yes the leak from around the lamp area is a bit of a mystery since the cable as you mentioned does exit the pool above water level. Anyway on the outside there was evidence of leaking from the lamp area. We also have a spotlight in the same place on the outside of the pool wall and the guys suspected that the concrete could be too thin at that part and therefore let water out.

 

Anyway the area is well covered now with water plug cement etc so the leak should be fixed in that spot. I will fill in the pool today and will find out soon. Now I'm just concerned about blocking the air holes of the lamp. Anyone know about this that I asked above? Yes my pool light is a 12W if I remember correctly. Anyway does it make any difference if the air holes on the lamp are blocked?  

Edited September 21, 2017 by ChomDo

[mindovermatter]

Yes, it seems like an evaporation to me too.