Thousands at U.S. rallies demand Trump release tax returns

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Ramen087 said:

You have that opinion regarding fulfillment of a president's duties, and that is fine... but it doesn't have anything to do with the topic which is the filing of annual, personal taxes with the IRS.

If you consider it off topic then maybe you should not have mentioned it in the post Credo was replying to.

[ilostmypassword]

53 minutes ago, binjalin said:

I'm not a Trump supporter at all but, come on, please don't quote 'approval ratings' after the Polls debacle that had Clinton winning easily 

The national polls showed Clinton winning the popular vote on average by 3 percent. She won by 2 percent. So, if you want to give Trump another point in the polls, by my guest. They still show that he's very unpopular.

[Ramen087]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

If you consider it off topic then maybe you should not have mentioned it in the post Credo was replying to.

My post was truncated by accident I will amend. Have a nice day, and thank you for the feedback.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Ramen087

[Langsuan Man]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I just love watching Trump boil over. Now he's tweeting up a storm and wants an investigation into who's paying the protesters.

This is because money is all Trump understands, service, loyalty, or even patriotism are foreign to him

 

He just can't understand that some people may be motivated by something other than money so there must be dead people voting, fake news,  bus loads of out of state voters in New Hampshire and of course paid protesters 

[ChakaKhan]

5 hours ago, selftaopath said:

I doubt this charlatan has the mental/moral capacity to understand he is a public servant. In his mind he "owns" America. Listen to his - usually unintelligible - talk e.g. "my military" " my generals" etc.

 

He is bilking America every minute of every day. He also brought his sleezy family into the trough. America is PAYING for all of them 24x7 which include trips abroad/skying/ etc. Oh and while their in other countries they are working to enhance the family business. But Americans are paying for all of this. And he BITCHED a/b Obama going on vacation. The phony goes golfing - at taxpayers expense - EVERY weekend. He is SCUM. 

He was the reason i came back here--he is a national embarrassment and a a##hole imo..

[Jingthing]

He needs to be impeached, and demanding that he release his taxes, which of course we know he won't (what's he hiding?), is just one part of a much  larger resistance movement to restore some sanity to save U.S. democratic institutions from the bizarre autocratic demagogue. 

[selftaopath]

21 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

Trump consistently files his taxes annually. He's also smart enough to hire knowledgeable tax attorneys to stay within the law to minimize his tax liability.

Campaign rhetoric is fueled by a bare knuckle fight to win elected office. Regarding paying taxes both he and his opponent duked it out during the debates. It's a tough fight but a fair one.  Search for contradictions  by going back in time & you can question anyone who has ever run for an office on the USA national stage. Trump is not unique in this. 

Integrity? Has he ever been indicted for a crime?  No. He plays by the rules. 

Fair fight? That's funny. 

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Trouble said:

The releasing of tax returns by Presidents and presidential candidates started with Nixon. It started when he as Vice Presidential candidate and wanted to appear to be a regular guy, challenged Adlai Stevenson to release his financial statements. Later during 1973  he did that only because he was under audit and there were questions about his personal taxes. It turned into a "tradition" moving forward.  The only real purpose tax returns reveal to the public is fodder for political discussion.  The IRS has a requirement that the President and Vice Presidential tax returns are subject to mandatory mandatory examinations. This is all just anti-Trump protest trying to make something out of nothing.  You can bet Donald Trump has been audited by the IRS more than once in his life. If during his business career he has done business with Russia, China, or Canada - so what?  If he had done anything illegal, surely the IRS would have gotten involved. He is not going to release them and I don't blame him.  It would only give people like Rachael Maddow an opportunity to make something out of nothing and feed the press frenzy for a week or two.  It's doubtful that 90% of the people marching for release of his taxes could read them if they were in front of them. How much money a person makes, from where is comes, what "legal" deductions are taken, and how much one gives to charity are private matters and should not be subject to public review whether you are President or the average Joe. If there is something done that's illegal, the IRS will take issue with it.  

"If there is something done that's illegal, the IRS will take issue with it."

 

No they won't.  The IRS is only concerned with tax law, it is prevented by law from disclosing evidence of illegal activity in tax reports unless presented with a court order granting a law enforcement agency access to a specific tax return. http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income-tax/  

 

Regarding the rest, release of tax returns has been the accepted norm since 1973, and is a practice Trump vocally supported in 2012.  People have every right to question why he thinks ethical standards should be followed by past candidates and Presidents, but not by him.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, kowpot said:

It is the State Department's job to monitor what foreign dealings a private citizen has with foreign governments. So, what's the point of the public seeing his tax returns? Obviously he has done nothing illegal. 

 

 

 

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799) is a United States federal law that details the fine and/or imprisonment of unauthorized citizens who negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. It was intended to prevent the undermining of the government's position.^[2] The Act was passed following George Logan's unauthorized negotiations with France in 1798, and was signed into law by President John Adams on January 30, 1799. The Act was last amended in 1994, and violation of the Logan Act is a felony.

The State Department is not a law enforcement agency.  Didn't you know that? 

 

Also, release of tax returns is about transparency and conflicts of interest.  Things that may not be technically illegal, but that voters are rightly interested in during elections, and citizens are rightly concerned about with a President of questionable ethics and judgment.

[heybruce]

On 4/15/2017 at 9:57 PM, haroldc said:

Perhaps all these protesters should release all their tax returns before demanding that President Trump releases his.  As Mr. Dinkin said: "Without seeing his [their] taxes, we'll never really know who he's [they are] working for."

 

18 hours ago, heybruce said:

How about Trump and the protesters release their taxes returns simultaneously?  I'll bet the overwhelming majority of these protesters would release theirs if Trump releases his.  I certainly would.

 

14 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

I agree, but if that is what it takes to get Trump to let us know what he's hiding, I'll happily release my returns.  I'm actually something of a privacy nut, but I have nothing to hide.  Does anyone think Trump has nothing to hide?

 

7 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

Donald Trump is a highly successful individual in business, and that has now extended to the world of politics. The highly successful are routinely sought out, and criticized by others. For some reason people like to see the highly successful have a setback, or even fail, and the larger the stage, the better.  This is a main reason for the suspicion I have seen cited here and elsewhere, and why many are calling for release of Trump's tax returns.

You?  No one in the public domain gives a rip who you are, and don't care about you, or your tax returns. It is definitely not a quid pro quo situation. You aren't in Donald Trump's league.

 

ps. I'm not either, but I didn't make the offer... 

If you are going to reply to my posts, please keep them in proper context.

[boomerangutang]

quote from the father of all liars (during the campaign); "I would love to release my tax forms, believe me."

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

It's obvious that since you cannot do much except go back in time to when running for elected office wasn't even an issue from Mr. Trump to seek out this imagined lack of integrity etc. from President Trump. You are suffering from what is known as 'confirmation bias'. Confirmation bias works backwards from an opinion, and seeks out any item, circumstantial or not, to confirm one's conclusion. That extends to the presumption of guilt over not making tax returns public, despite it not indicating anything other than a right to keep one's earnings internal, which seems to be a right stripped from elected officials, 

Donald Trump publicly criticized Mitt Romney for being slow in releasing his tax returns in 2012, and now refuses to release his own tax returns.  It is clear hypocrisy, now matter how much psycho-babble you attempt to bury it under.

 

As far as evidence of ethical lapses by Trump, a current, obvious and possibly illegal ethical lapse (I hope someone is looking into it) is Trump doubling the membership fee to Mar-a-Lago after the election (to $200,000  http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/mar-a-lago-membership-fee-doubles-to-200000.html )   then making it his "Winter White House", flying there repeatedly at great taxpayer expense, conducting state dinners in his private business, and in general using the office of the presidency to make it a more desirable club for rich opportunists.   Of course there are other ethical issues (Trump University, bankruptcies, groping women, etc) that predate his presidency. 

 

Please keep these two issues straight:  Evidence of Trump's lack of ethics is abundant.  The flip-flop on tax releases is evidence he is a huge hypocrite.  Many of his supporters will acknowledge both.

Edited April 17, 2017 by heybruce

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

quote from the father of all liars (during the campaign); "I would love to release my tax forms, believe me."

Clearly he was using "air quotes" in his precious old orange head ... alternate fact land of the damaged brain of the most powerful man on the planet. 

 

Who knows, now that he's pissed off Putin, maybe the Russian dictator can find a way to hack into the IRS and release them ...

 

No, of course, not inviting Putin, a hostile power, to do that. That would be a trump move.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Jingthing

[selftaopath]

22 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

Trump consistently files his taxes annually. He's also smart enough to hire knowledgeable tax attorneys to stay within the law to minimize his tax liability.

Campaign rhetoric is fueled by a bare knuckle fight to win elected office. Regarding paying taxes both he and his opponent duked it out during the debates. It's a tough fight but a fair one.  Search for contradictions  by going back in time & you can question anyone who has ever run for an office on the USA national stage. Trump is not unique in this. 

Integrity? Has he ever been indicted for a crime?  No. He plays by the rules. 

He plays by the rules? LOL That's even funnier.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, selftaopath said:

He plays by the rules? LOL That's even funnier.

trump is the biggest liar in U.S. presidential history. Yes, all politicians lie, and all politicians need to lie to a measured degree, but trying to present trump as anything resembling NORMAL doesn't pass the smell test. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Jingthing

[selftaopath]

22 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

Trump consistently files his taxes annually. He's also smart enough to hire knowledgeable tax attorneys to stay within the law to minimize his tax liability.

Campaign rhetoric is fueled by a bare knuckle fight to win elected office. Regarding paying taxes both he and his opponent duked it out during the debates. It's a tough fight but a fair one.  Search for contradictions  by going back in time & you can question anyone who has ever run for an office on the USA national stage. Trump is not unique in this. 

Integrity? Has he ever been indicted for a crime?  No. He plays by the rules. 

Paul Mcintosh posted on YT:

If you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may feel a sense of entitlement — and when you don't receive special treatment, you may become impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — for instance, the best car, athletic club or medical care. At the same time, you have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation. To feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make yourself appear superior. Or you may feel depressed and moody because you fall short of perfection. Many experts use the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, to diagnose mental conditions. This manual is also used by insurance companies to reimburse for treatment. DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features: Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it Exaggerating your achievements and talents Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people Requiring constant admiration Having a sense of entitlement Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations Taking advantage of others to get what you want Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others Being envious of others and believing others envy you Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal and value yourself more than you value others.

 

Sound familiar?

[binjalin]

6 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

The national polls showed Clinton winning the popular vote on average by 3 percent. She won by 2 percent. So, if you want to give Trump another point in the polls, by my guest. They still show that he's very unpopular.

wrong!  the Polls had Clinton winning the States she needed to win the CONTEST and all projections apart from LA Times had her winning the Presidency so please do not manipulate thank you

[Jingthing]

wrong!  the Polls had Clinton winning the States she needed to win the CONTEST and all projections apart from LA Times had her winning the Presidency so please do not manipulate thank you

Generally the popular vote polls were mostly pretty accurate but the state polls were off. Keep in mind trump won by thin margins in the surprise states that gave him the presidency. Approval ratings of course are usually reported on a national basis so saying we should ignore the consensus of nationally based approval rating polls because most polls got the election results wrong does not wash. Again because most polls correctly called the Clinton national popular vote well.

 

 

 

 

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

Liberal lunatics crying like spoilt brats again. They couldn't even being to comprehend Trumps tax return.  Nothing funnier than ignorant, irrelevant losers.

[Ramen087]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Donald Trump publicly criticized Mitt Romney for being slow in releasing his tax returns in 2012, and now refuses to release his own tax returns.  It is clear hypocrisy, now matter how much psycho-babble you attempt to bury it under.

 

As far as evidence of ethical lapses by Trump, a current, obvious and possibly illegal ethical lapse (I hope someone is looking into it) is Trump doubling the membership fee to Mar-a-Lago after the election (to $200,000  http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/mar-a-lago-membership-fee-doubles-to-200000.html )   then making it his "Winter White House", flying there repeatedly at great taxpayer expense, conducting state dinners in his private business, and in general using the office of the presidency to make it a more desirable club for rich opportunists.   Of course there are other ethical issues (Trump University, bankruptcies, groping women, etc) that predate his presidency. 

 

Please keep these two issues straight:  Evidence of Trump's lack of ethics is abundant.  The flip-flop on tax releases is evidence he is a huge hypocrite.  Many of his supporters will acknowledge both.

Your view is not the only acceptable one on this matter. It doesn't matter how many times you go back in time and post links to justify your conclusion on DT and how he operated in the business sector. The business sector and the political arena are not the same; they operate under different rules.  He files his taxes with the IRS and state agencies every year and uses every legal means to reduce his liability. That's it regarding this thread's topic.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Ramen087

[Ramen087]

1 hour ago, selftaopath said:

Paul Mcintosh posted on YT:

If you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may feel a sense of entitlement — and when you don't receive special treatment, you may become impatient or angry. You may insist on having "the best" of everything — for instance, the best car, athletic club or medical care. At the same time, you have trouble handling anything that may be perceived as criticism. You may have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation. To feel better, you may react with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make yourself appear superior. Or you may feel depressed and moody because you fall short of perfection. Many experts use the criteria in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), published by the American Psychiatric Association, to diagnose mental conditions. This manual is also used by insurance companies to reimburse for treatment. DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features: Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it Exaggerating your achievements and talents Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people Requiring constant admiration Having a sense of entitlement Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations Taking advantage of others to get what you want Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others Being envious of others and believing others envy you Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence, it's not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal and value yourself more than you value others.

 

Sound familiar?

OMG... there is nothing in your post related to DT filing his taxes and not revealing those returns to the public.... this is armchair psychology at best... mods, is this quoted post helping this thread or keeping it on topic?  it is   is it not?

[Ramen087]

1 hour ago, selftaopath said:

He plays by the rules? LOL That's even funnier.

Yes, he does. The rules of business and the rules of politics are not the same. So, when it comes to the topic at hand... annual tax returns, he files using every legal means available to him to pay as little as possible within the law. Nothing funny about that, is there?

Edited April 17, 2017 by Ramen087

[Ramen087]

3 hours ago, selftaopath said:

Fair fight? That's funny. 

The presidential campaign is most definitely a fair fight when it comes to the showdown between the two top parties.  Both candidates agree to and very well aware of the rules prior to accepting the nomination.  Presidential elections are not an arena for shrinking violets. HRC and DT proved it during the campaign with their ads, statements outside debates and especially within those debates.  Regarding this thread: The filing of annual tax returns was addressed during the debates in very pointed fashion.

[Jingthing]

Liberal lunatics crying like spoilt brats again. They couldn't even being to comprehend Trumps tax return.  Nothing funnier than ignorant, irrelevant losers.

Taxes at trump's level are highly complex. If trump released them competent experts would be quick with detailed analysis.

As far as your slurs. Not acceptable. But I get it. The trump fascist movement emboldens bullies.

[tuktuktuk]

I don't think there's any legal obligation to release. Why release?  This ties up a lot of liberal energy that could be redirected to things where their efforts could yield fruit. Perhaps it's just a political diversionary tactic. Let them spin their wheels chasing an impeachment while he deconstructs the suffocating Obama legacy. 

[CharlieK]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Taxes at trump's level are highly complex. If trump released them competent experts would be quick with detailed analysis.

As far as your slurs. Not acceptable. But I get it. The trump fascist movement emboldens bullies.

Really! lets see your tax returns then. After all if trump has to be that open why not the rest of americans also. It's BS is all.

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

Donald Trump publicly criticized Mitt Romney for being slow in releasing his tax returns in 2012, and now refuses to release his own tax returns.  It is clear hypocrisy, now matter how much psycho-babble you attempt to bury it under.

 

As far as evidence of ethical lapses by Trump, a current, obvious and possibly illegal ethical lapse (I hope someone is looking into it) is Trump doubling the membership fee to Mar-a-Lago after the election (to $200,000  http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/mar-a-lago-membership-fee-doubles-to-200000.html )   then making it his "Winter White House", flying there repeatedly at great taxpayer expense, conducting state dinners in his private business, and in general using the office of the presidency to make it a more desirable club for rich opportunists.   Of course there are other ethical issues (Trump University, bankruptcies, groping women, etc) that predate his presidency. 

 

Please keep these two issues straight:  Evidence of Trump's lack of ethics is abundant.  The flip-flop on tax releases is evidence he is a huge hypocrite.  Many of his supporters will acknowledge both.

 

4 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

Your view is not the only acceptable one on this matter. It doesn't matter how many times you go back in time and post links to justify your conclusion on DT and how he operated in the business sector. The business sector and the political arena are not the same; they operate under different rules.  He files his taxes with the IRS and state agencies every year and uses every legal means to reduce his liability. That's it regarding this thread's topic.

You've run out of things to post, but that doesn't stop you.  I never said my view is the only acceptable one, so why do you state the obvious? 

 

You suggested I had no evidence of unethical behavior by Trump, so I provided one of many examples.  Your argument that the political and business arenas have different rules is nonsense.  By using the office of the presidency to benefit his Mar-a-Lago resort Trump is merging the business and political sector in an unethical manner, which doesn't surprise anyone.  There are other examples of Trump using the presidency to promote Trump's business interests, but the Mar-a-Lago one is the most obvious and easy to understand.

 

The thread is about protesters demanding that Trump follow established tradition, a tradition Trump actively supported during the 2012 election, and release his tax returns.  Pointing out the need for an ethically challenged President to show greater financial transparency, not less, and identifying the hypocrisy of his failure to do so is well on-topic.

[mesquite]

None of this tax stuff makes any difference.  Trump's approval rating is moving up.

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_apr17

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, CharlieK said:

Really! lets see your tax returns then. After all if trump has to be that open why not the rest of americans also. It's BS is all.

No need to release everyone's tax returns, just the ones of people in a position to use government office for private gain.  It is an established tradition, it should be the law, and, thanks to Trump's hypocritical flip-flop on the matter, will probably become law before the end of the Trump presidency.

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, mesquite said:

None of this tax stuff makes any difference.  Trump's approval rating is moving up.

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_apr17

Trump's approval rating has gone from historic lows to just low.  Why do you think this is significant?