7by7 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Grouse said: My fear is that an increased majority would give TM a perceived mandate to crash out of the EU with all that would incur. Surely nobody believes the Con Party has the best interests of the majority at heart. I don't. The Tories are exactly the same as every other political party; they have the interests of themselves and their members at heart. Most politicians of all parties sincerely believe that those interests coincide with the best interests for the country as a whole; sometimes they are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, BigKahuna said: Letting millions of morons vote works well? Dont think so Well it worked in the Brexit referendum.... er, well it worked well in the American presidential elections....er, well it worked well in Turkey.... oh, never mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 7 minutes ago, Grouse said: Those that took the king's shilling don't seem to give a damn about those who gave the shillings to the king! Many have been able to retire relatively early and supported by the tax payer. No problem with that but I expect my opinions to be treated with respect ? Just the way you respect other peoples opinions that disagree with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahuna Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, Grouse said: Then we wouldn't be leaving the EU obviously ? Most intelligent people choose independence. Only young dunces and slaves wouldnt apart from the globalist crooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieK Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: 12 minutes ago, BigKahuna said: Letting millions of morons vote works well? Dont think so Well it worked in the Brexit referendum.... er, well it worked well in the American presidential elections....er, well it worked well in Turkey.... oh, never mind.... Yet if you weren't given a vote you would also be annoyed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, 7by7 said: The Tories are exactly the same as every other political party; they have the interests of themselves and their members at heart. Most politicians of all parties sincerely believe that those interests coincide with the best interests for the country as a whole; sometimes they are right. Hmmm, I think Con Party cynicism could power the national grid! Corbynites are delusional but not cynical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahuna Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Just now, 7by7 said: The Tories are exactly the same as every other political party; they have the interests of themselves and their members at heart. Most politicians of all parties sincerely believe that those interests coincide with the best interests for the country as a whole; sometimes they are right. Politics is a 1 horse race. That horse is called Self Interest. But the nitwits that follow political parties for life like to think they their votes are almighty and powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, vogie said: Just the way you respect other peoples opinions that disagree with you? I do respect other people's opinions. Sometimes others don't like it when I point out facts. Genuinely no desire to offend anyone ?. No, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, CharlieK said: Yet if you weren't given a vote you would also be annoyed! Now that's ridiculous; of course I would be given a vote ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Well this has turned into a very lively debate. Clearly we all have much too much time on our hands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: I do respect other people's opinions. Sometimes others don't like it when I point out facts. Genuinely no desire to offend anyone ?. No, really. I think others don't mind you showing them the errors of their ways, but by calling people numpties doesn't help your cause, I would stick to being a genius if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, BigKahuna said: Most intelligent people choose independence. Only young dunces and slaves wouldnt apart from the globalist crooks. I suspect "most intelligent people" want what gives happiness and security for themselves, their families and their communities. Freedom of choice is key if that's what you mean by independence. But man is a gregarious animal and we seek community and society; we club together. We could discuss this at length.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, vogie said: I think others don't mind you showing them the errors of their ways, but by calling people numpties doesn't help your cause, I would stick to being a genius if I were you. I accept that But let me reiterate what I have said about numpties 1) It's a humourous Scottish expression best translated as silly Billy or twit! It's not intended to offend 2) I reserve it for those who voted without apparently researching the ramifications Shall I use a different term? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Grouse said: I accept that But let me reiterate what I have said about numpties 1) It's a humourous Scottish expression best translated as silly Billy or twit! It's not intended to offend 2) I reserve it for those who voted without apparently researching the ramifications Shall I use a different term? ? It doesn't appear to be an humorous expression to me. Taken from the Oxford English dictionary:- NOUN British informal A stupid or ineffectual person. You don't think calling some-one stupid is not offensive, I beg to differ. People that don't share your opinion are not stupid, they just don't agree with you. And it might be better if you didn't look for any other offensive terminology to insult people that disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahuna Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, Grouse said: I suspect "most intelligent people" want what gives happiness and security for themselves, their families and their communities. Freedom of choice is key if that's what you mean by independence. But man is a gregarious animal and we seek community and society; we club together. We could discuss this at length.... Letting foreigners make decisions for you is not what brings happiness. If you are a farmer you don't want others telling you to rip up the corn and plant beans if corn is more profitable for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahuna Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 23 minutes ago, vogie said: I think others don't mind you showing them the errors of their ways, but by calling people numpties doesn't help your cause, I would stick to being a genius if I were you. Rather harmless. Intelligent people don't get upset over trivial stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, vogie said: It doesn't appear to be an humorous expression to me. Taken from the Oxford English dictionary:- NOUN British informal A stupid or ineffectual person. You don't think calling some-one stupid is not offensive, I beg to differ. People that don't share your opinion are not stupid, they just don't agree with you. And it might be better if you didn't look for any other offensive terminology to insult people that disagree with you. Ok http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Numpty Lets drop it now and get back to the topic ? Edited April 19, 2017 by Grouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 1 minute ago, BigKahuna said: Rather harmless. Intelligent people don't get upset over trivial stuff. I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgordo38 Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said: Yes that is broadly my analysis also, some attempt has to be made to go beyond the mud slinging and ask why now? That is the question of the day (Well yesterday). Despite her repeatedly denying she would call an election, she saw that the simple and simplistic in/out Brexit was never going to happen, and as things came unstuck the the blame would fall on the Tories in 2020, who else can the voters blame? Forget Corbyn's vomit inducing duplicity on Brexit, I expect he will be long gone after the likely significant loss of seats to come. Ukip are disappearing from view with their Xenophobic filth. May is obviously a nasty piece of work, but stupid she is not. I think both you and JackScarlett are right on the money. In politics its every man/woman for themselves. After the cashiers window there still will be a whole world of political cronyism open to her book deal you name it. The whole process is so predictable its sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Orac said: Seems an odd tactic by Labour to vote for an election rather than just abstain - without that 67% of MPs backing an election then TM to need hold a no-confidence vote in her leadership and 'lose' which would be a more entertaining spectacle. Not sure whether it is 2/3 majority on the vote or 2/3 of MP's (434) needed to vote in favour... if the latter then they would only need to count those in favour, I favour the latter as it was never intended that just one party could call an election on their own, but more probably if say 600 MP's vote then they need 400 MP's to vote for. Problem is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybiker Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 As a relative newcomer to these forums the ad hominem & slang name calling does unfortunately lower & occasionally diverts the aim of that persons argument and indeed post. (I'm infrequently also guilty m'lord) However I must confess to having a tough Ayrshire skin combined with my non disclosed background of being aware people's views do differ along with they're political support and alliance. A constructive, balanced and progressive debate is what most aim for not a schoolyard slander deliberately intending to hack people off, I often disagree with a few on here but keeping it civil is the MO. At least the forum hasn't descended into PMQ's.....yet. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 A baiting post has been removed. The very vast majority of posters have been able to discuss the topic in a reasonably civil manner. Let's not let the one or two trolls ruin that for the rest. Please stay on topic and ignore attempts to bait you with their personal and off-topic remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieK Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 522 for 13 against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citybiker Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 522 for 13 against. Over 100 abstained.Yet to see full breakdown of the culprits.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 13 minutes ago, citybiker said: Over 100 abstained. Yet to see full breakdown of the culprits. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 115 to be exact, Some may have a good excuse but I bet a few Labour MP's felt like a turkey voting for Xmas... To be honest I was expecting at least 56 against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 It may be a snap election but the next seven weeks are going to seem very long indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 9 hours ago, BigKahuna said: Why bend over to please foreigners? Sad how weak poms are these days. Thailand doesnt Geez - says someone from a country that changes governments like changing underpants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 2 hours ago, BigKahuna said: Rather harmless. Intelligent people don't get upset over trivial stuff. Intelligent people should have the intelligence not to insult people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pegman Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 Have there been any recent polls on a redo of Brexit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, pegman said: Have there been any recent polls on a redo of Brexit? Have you heard the expression "brexit means brexit" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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