A fine old mess

[Deserted]

Good lord, far too many comments to read, I didn't get half way through and can't go on reading as I have taken in enough. I just want to end by saying I really don't believe my life was in danger. If I thought that, things would be different but its only my face and one leg that has cuts and I was only knocked out. I felt fine pretty quickly and left. On the first instance no medical action was undertaken, there was no bill I had no injuries, just got knocked out. I accept a degree of irresponsibility on my part but when you cycle for over 30 years and go without out one, not everyone is so sure another will follow. I do not have a bike and suspect I must take a break from it. Many points taken on board and much appreciated. Do understand we all have ups and downs in many respects. Right now I am a very low financial point, none of this is easy at all, I really don't know what to do and what I ought to do, hence the purpose of posting in the first place.  

[Deserted]

10 hours ago, possum1931 said:

If the OP is still around, I would like to ask him if he was dropped of at the first government hospital, would he have tried to come to some arrangement to pay them as it would have been a lot less that at Bumungrad.

I would have yes. I will with Bungrumrad if we can agree but I do think the way they handled the whole thing was profit based. I had no injuries on my neck and chest, all organs fine so why the bloody x-rays?

[ajarngreg]

33 minutes ago, Deserted said:

Good lord, far too many comments to read, I didn't get half way through and can't go on reading as I have taken in enough. I just want to end by saying I really don't believe my life was in danger. If I thought that, things would be different but its only my face and one leg that has cuts and I was only knocked out. I felt fine pretty quickly and left. On the first instance no medical action was undertaken, there was no bill I had no injuries, just got knocked out. I accept a degree of irresponsibility on my part but when you cycle for over 30 years and go without out one, not everyone is so sure another will follow. I do not have a bike and suspect I must take a break from it. Many points taken on board and much appreciated. Do understand we all have ups and downs in many respects. Right now I am a very low financial point, none of this is easy at all, I really don't know what to do and what I ought to do, hence the purpose of posting in the first place.  

 

 You've started the wheels rolling and I'm certain that you'll see many things in your life now from a different point. 

 

    But your statement that you "just got knocked out" doesn't make much sense without knowing how hard the impact on your head/brain really was.

 

         Plenty of people have died after falling from their bikes, or colliding with a moving, or non moving thing in any form.

 

          Have you even thought about the fact that you could easily be in a wheelchair now and paralyzed for the rest of your life?

 

            Or maybe brain damaged, being in a coma for years? Please use your time you've got now to think about your future, read some books and  find the best possible way to live a nice life without having money. 

 

P.S. Adding and deleting parts of my post after reading OP's naive post. 

 

 You do not seem to get it after reading your reply to Possum. " I had no injuries at my neck." Only this sentence is so insane that anybody who knows what happened to you would just start screaming.

 

  You were unconscious ( 2nd time) with head injuries after an accident on a bicycle where your head collided with something.

 

    There was nothing profit based, they just wanted to rule out fractures, or problems at your spine.

 

        Others had not so much luck and you continue to play the victim of a scam?

 

          Sorry, you've read Sheryl's posts and she's got a good medical background. But you're acting like you've never read her posts where you've replied to.

 

     I'm sorry, but I give up now. You just don't get it. I feel sorry for your child now, not for you anymore. 

 

 

P.S. The username totally fits. 

            

   

[CMBob]

8 minutes ago, Deserted said:

........ I just want to end by saying I really don't believe my life was in danger.... 

You simply don't get it and it's absolutely irrelevant what you believed (once, of course, you were conscious enough to think in the first place).  The doctors at the hospital were presented with an unconscious person that was involved in a traffic accident while riding a bike.  What you simply don't get is the doctors were required by any fathomable medical protocol to presume your life may very well be in danger; hence, the tests they did to find out what level of injury/danger was involved.  The fact the tests came out negative in no manner suggests they weren't reasonably required.  Actually, a negative outcome for those tests only proves you were lucky. 

[Deserted]

Well its contestable as to how such conditions are determined and I can't say for sure as I wasn't awake but the speed I came round suggests they weren't serious. It is a grey area and yes a bang on the head can be fatal as I know someone who went six feet under last year just climbing out of a window and doing it...anyway I can't go any further with this. Far too much to absorb. All thoughts appreciated. 

[mommysboy]

Now that he's earning he will be paying tax, but he'll see nothing for it in terms of health benefits.

[Tony125]

22 minutes ago, Deserted said:

Well its contestable as to how such conditions are determined and I can't say for sure as I wasn't awake but the speed I came round suggests they weren't serious. It is a grey area and yes a bang on the head can be fatal as I know someone who went six feet under last year just climbing out of a window and doing it...anyway I can't go any further with this. Far too much to absorb. All thoughts appreciated. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/motorcycles/this-is-why-you-crash-your-motorcycle%E2%80%94according-to-science/ar-BBzQIZ0?ocid=U143DHP

 

As was posted earlier pick up accident insurance its cheap as it only covers accidents not genereal health or life.

[scubascuba3]

Maybe do a runner literally and buy a new bike? Problem with that is the cops might put an APB out on you.

On the subject of personal accident insurance, anyone got a good one with decent cover? The one i saw bangkok insurance only covered around 30k medical expenses for an accident.

[ddavidovsky]

48 minutes ago, CMBob said:

You simply don't get it and it's absolutely irrelevant what you believed (once, of course, you were conscious enough to think in the first place).  The doctors at the hospital were presented with an unconscious person that was involved in a traffic accident while riding a bike.  What you simply don't get is the doctors were required by any fathomable medical protocol to presume your life may very well be in danger; hence, the tests they did to find out what level of injury/danger was involved.  The fact the tests came out negative in no manner suggests they weren't reasonably required.  Actually, a negative outcome for those tests only proves you were lucky. 

So you're saying if this had happened to an ordinary Thai person, they would have been taken to Bumrungrad, given the same procedures and hit with the same size bill - because medical protocol requires it? I don't think so.

[ajarngreg]

4 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Maybe do a runner literally and buy a new bike? Problem with that is the cops might put an APB out on you.

On the subject of personal accident insurance, anyone got a good one with decent cover? The one i saw bangkok insurance only covered around 30k medical expenses for an accident.
 

No idea who gave you this information, it's not true.This is from Bangkok Bank:

 

    http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/NewPA1st.aspx

 

       

PA 1st VIP	Benefits (Baht)
Protection	Plan 1	Plan 2
1. Accidental loss of life, dismemberment, loss of sight or total      permanent disability (Or. Bor. 1) from     -  General accident     -  Murder or assault     -  Accident while driving or travelling on a motorcycle     -  Accident from political violence	3,000,000 1,500,000 1,500,000 1,500,000	5,000,000 2,500,000 2,500,000 2,500,000
2. 12 months income compensation for family in the event of accidental      loss of life from     -  General accident     -  Murder or assault     -  Accident while driving or traveling on a motorcycle     -  Accident from political violence	10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month	10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month
3. Maximum payment for medical expenses per accident (for general     accidents, including murder, assault, while driving or traveling on a     motorcycle, and accidents arising from political violence, there is no     limit to the number of accidents)	100,000	150,000
Annual Premiums (including stamp duty)	5,900	8,900

 

[mogandave]

Six ambulances turned up very quickly before even the police.

That's a bad thing?

[mogandave]

Now that he's earning he will be paying tax, but he'll see nothing for it in terms of health benefits.

If he's working legally and paying social security he is entitled to "free" medical.

[mogandave]

Well its contestable as to how such conditions are determined and I can't say for sure as I wasn't awake but the speed I came round suggests they weren't serious. It is a grey area and yes a bang on the head can be fatal as I know someone who went six feet under last year just climbing out of a window and doing it...anyway I can't go any further with this. Far too much to absorb. All thoughts appreciated. 

So if you are in an accident and rendered unconscious, how long should the hospital wait before they start diagnostic testing?

[scubascuba3]

No idea who gave you this information, it's not true.This is from Bangkok Bank:
 
    http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/BuildYourWealth/Bancassurance/NonLifeInsurance/Pages/NewPA1st.aspx
 
       

PA 1st VIP	Benefits (Baht)
Protection	Plan 1	Plan 2
1. Accidental loss of life, dismemberment, loss of sight or total      permanent disability (Or. Bor. 1) from     -  General accident     -  Murder or assault     -  Accident while driving or travelling on a motorcycle     -  Accident from political violence	3,000,000 1,500,000 1,500,000 1,500,000	5,000,000 2,500,000 2,500,000 2,500,000
2. 12 months income compensation for family in the event of accidental      loss of life from     -  General accident     -  Murder or assault     -  Accident while driving or traveling on a motorcycle     -  Accident from political violence	10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month	10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month 10,000/month
3. Maximum payment for medical expenses per accident (for general     accidents, including murder, assault, while driving or traveling on a     motorcycle, and accidents arising from political violence, there is no     limit to the number of accidents)	100,000	150,000
Annual Premiums (including stamp duty)	5,900	8,900

 

That does seem pretty good. My one was Bangkok Insurance rather than Bangkok Bank. % premium is lower with Bangkok Insurance but cover is insufficient IMO. I'll see if they have higher cover.
http://www.bangkokinsurance.com/online/pa_holiday.asp?lang=thai

[hawker9000]

18 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

So you're saying if this had happened to an ordinary Thai person, they would have been taken to Bumrungrad, given the same procedures and hit with the same size bill - because medical protocol requires it? I don't think so.

Newsflash:  you're NOT Thai.  You're not a doctor or medical professional either.  But you ARE apparently someone with family responsibilities, which makes your failure to have necessary insurance doubly irresponsible.  Not that you aren't asking some valid questions: it's just a bad time to have to be asking them. And they call 'em "accidents" precisely BECAUSE they're unexpected.  Ranting about not having had one in a zillion years is beyond dim.  One can only hope that someone reading all this might learn from your mistakes.  Best advice for you is to keep trying to negotiate something, politely, until they finally get so sick of it that they decide to accept something as better than nothing.

[mommysboy]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

If he's working legally and paying social security he is entitled to "free" medical.

Well I never knew that.  Is this a recent thing?  Schools used to arrange medical cover.  When I worked for a university I got a social security card which entitled me to free healthcare, but when I worked for a private school there was none.

[scubascuba3]

Isn't this exactly the reason why the authorities are considering compulsory medical insurance for farang?

[ajarngreg]

2 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Newsflash:  you're NOT Thai.  You're not a doctor or medical professional either.  But you ARE apparently someone with family responsibilities, which makes your failure to have necessary insurance doubly irresponsible.  Not that you aren't asking some valid questions: it's just a bad time to have to be asking them. And they call 'em "accidents" precisely BECAUSE they're unexpected.  Ranting about not having had one in a zillion years is beyond dim.  One can only hope that someone reading all this might learn from your mistakes.  Best advice for you is to keep trying to negotiate something, politely, until they finally get so sick of it that they decide to accept something as better than nothing.

And the next unconscious foreigner who forgot to take his credit card at home, because he didn't expect an accident, won't get the needed treatment and dies of inner bleeding, right when his wife runs in with his credit card to make sure that "Darling" gets the right treatment.

 

    The OP on the other hand only knows that he survived because he woke up.

 

But the injuries weren't serious, because he woke up very quickly. And the staff of the hospital have one more reason to believe that we are all liars who make the runner to our favorite begging place in front of 7 Eleven. 

       

[hawker9000]

5 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Isn't this exactly the reason why the authorities are considering compulsory medical insurance for farang?

It's a candidate pretext for another money-grab on farangs, yes.  Whether it provides any actual coverage or just pays for submarines (etc.) is another question.

[mogandave]

Isn't this exactly the reason why the authorities are considering compulsory medical insurance for farang?

Great idea, it should be a visa requirement.

[ajarngreg]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Well I never knew that.  Is this a recent thing?  Schools used to arrange medical cover.  When I worked for a university I got a social security card which entitled me to free healthcare, but when I worked for a private school there was none.

Only government schools have to have SS insurance for foreigners. Those who work for agencies might have an insurance covering 10 K per accident.Private schools do not need to provide any insurance and if they do, you can be happy. 

 

         Just for the book, a motorcycle insurance only covers 12 K. If the bill is higher you've got bad luck, Chuck. 

[ajarngreg]

20 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

 

So if you are in an accident and rendered unconscious, how long should the hospital wait before they start diagnostic testing?

 

 

Short before the entrance to Nirvana, me thinks. 

[mogandave]

Well I never knew that.  Is this a recent thing?  Schools used to arrange medical cover.  When I worked for a university I got a social security card which entitled me to free healthcare, but when I worked for a private school there was none.

 

Not new.

 

When you pay social security you get medical. If you're not getting medical with you SS you're getting cheated.

 

I have it but I almost never use it as I like bummer a lot better and I have insurance.

[mogandave]

Only government schools have to have SS insurance for foreigners. Those who work for agencies might have an insurance covering 10 K per accident.Private schools do not need to provide any insurance and if they do, you can be happy. 
 
         Just for the book, a motorcycle insurance only covers 12 K. If the bill is higher you've got bad luck, Chuck. 

So the deduct income taxed but not social security?

Are these jobs temporary?

[cyberfarang]

On 19/04/2017 at 11:56 PM, Deserted said:

If I was loaded I would pay it but I really am not. I couldn't even pay half of it and have lost my transport as a result. It's put me in a difficult position and I did nothing wrong. I was the victim yet I get hit for heavy bills for work that achieved nothing and I never asked for. It just isn't right to me. 

If you are not in a situation to pay a medical bill for 27000 baht, then you shouldn`t be living in Thailand or at least stop putting your life at risk riding thousands of kms on your bicycle.

 

What if during the accident you would had suffered serious injury and required life saving medical procedures to save you? Thanks for saving my life but I`ve had to pay school fees, which wiped me out, that is your problem, not theirs. You were unconsciousness at the time and maybe taken to what was considered a hospital with the best facilities. 

 

I don`t believe you were scammed, the tests were probably carried out to assess if you had any internal injuries. 

 

Stop moaning and groaning you ungrateful so and so, and thank your lucky stars that you walked away from a serious accidents with only a 54000 baht bill and not brain damaged or paralysed for life.

[bazza73]

11 hours ago, chrissables said:

How do you travel around bkk? It's not illegal to ride you know.

Or maybe because other road users are bad you think he is wrong?

 

My only form of transport in Bangkok is the shuttle bus between Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang on my way to Chiang Mai.

Based on what the OP has described, IMO he's going to be a Darwin Award recipient if he persists with a bicycle.

Would you go swimming with crocodiles on the basis you have an equal right to be in the river? It's a matter of common sense, which the OP does not appear to be exhibiting.

[bazza73]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Great idea, it should be a visa requirement.

I'm over 70, with pre-existing conditions. No health  insurance company would be interested in me.

 

I have 500,000 baht on deposit specifically for medical emergencies. I'd say the authorities should allow self-insurance also. If not, there's always Cambodia, Vietnam or the Philippines.

[bazza73]

20 hours ago, chrissables said:

What's with the helmet nonsense? Did not wearing one cause the accident?

Why do people always criticize the victim?

Is a helmet the law?  

Why not at least argue the case for the person who caused the accident to pay?

The statistics are quite clear - you are about 4 times more likely to die of head injuries in a bike or motorcycle accident if not wearing a helmet, than if you are wearing one. I think it's called contributory negligence by the lawyers.

It's interesting how people who rail against compulsory helmets as infringing their personal freedoms, then expect society to bear the cost of caring for them when they become vegetables after an accident.

 

[jacko45k]

If you were unconscious sufficient time for them to admit you and perform 3 scans perhaps the investigation was warranted,. particularly if you were in fact having seizures.

 

Do you wear protective headgear, surprisingly you do not mention it?

 

I agree hospitals push expensive and profitable investigation procedures,  (and volunteer services may well be given incentives to take farangs to a particular place), but as you were unconscious you are not in a position to discuss their necessity nor give permission. Had the scans shown something serious, we would not be discussing this now.

[chrissables]

3 hours ago, bazza73 said:

My only form of transport in Bangkok is the shuttle bus between Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang on my way to Chiang Mai.

Based on what the OP has described, IMO he's going to be a Darwin Award recipient if he persists with a bicycle.

Would you go swimming with crocodiles on the basis you have an equal right to be in the river? It's a matter of common sense, which the OP does not appear to be exhibiting.

So you don't actually travel around bkk and then think you are qualified to give advice on how to?  How funny!

The op stated he has been riding for years in bkk with no issues, sometimes shit happens and you just have to get up and carry on.

Your crocodile analogy is off the mark, the op needs to travel, all travel in bkk (Thailand) is risky. It's all part of the fun of living here.