Is Health Insurance In Thailand A Waste Of Money?

[dblaisde]

I live here, and I'm looking for affordable health insurance that actually delivers when you need it.

I talked to a doctor at Bumrungrad yesterday, and he wouldn't recommend

any Thai health insurance providers (and Bumrungrad doesn't have their own). He said that the Thai plans didn't deliver. They try to get out of paying you when you really need it (major medical bills), by paying only a fraction of the cost, or saying it was a preexisting condition, or only paying enough to ship you back home where you hopefully have some real insurance.

[Sheryl]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. What I have found with BUPA is that they'll come through but thereafter may try to get rid of you, or limit your further coverage, as you are sort of listed as someone who puts in claims.

There have been many posts on the subject of health insurance with people reporting their experiences with various companies, try searching this forum.

I don't think coverage for outpatient care is necessary here but for hospitalization, either you should have coverage or self insure (a sizable amount of money set aside in the Bank to use in case of need).

Those who come from countries with free health care who would want to go back home in case of illness might consider just a medevac policy (travellers insurance sort of thing) or setting aside enough money to pay for initial emergency care and evacuation home. Those who would plan to stay in Thailand would do well, if uninsured, to have around 1 mill Baht set aside or otherwise readily accessible just in case (most hospitalizations won't come anywhere near that, more likely not more than 500,000 even for major surgery, but a really catastrophic illness with an extended stay in an ICU and surgery could).

[Farma]

Very wise advice Sheryl.

In the past 2 years I’ve had 2 friends hospitalized due to head injuries. One was the subject of a thread on TV a while back and the other is currently in hospital.

Both were unexpected accidents and the hospitals bills quickly add up.

Health insurance is definitely needed.

[Firefan]

Question is; can one afford NOT to have health insurance? Yes, in Thailand a the bill would probably be possible to handle with 1M Baht in an account - so if one does not travel, and have that set aside, one should be ok.

If not - get at least major medical (hospitalization) - can be had for around $500/year covering up to Baht 1.5M Baht here in Thailand - or go for an international one, cover USD 1.5M and set a high deductable to keep cost resonable.

Cheers!

[1Lucky]

Personally I'd get health insurance to cover major stuff - I've had a medical problem for the past 3 months and the bills have added up amazingly - fortunately my insurance (from overseas) helps quite a lot.

Last year I had BUPA in thailand and found them a bit of a nightmare upfront - basically trying to exclude anything that I would be likely to suffer from from their coverage. After that for the few small claims I had to make they did pay up though. To me however their coverage seemed v limited.

Lucky

[causticme]

I live here, and I'm looking for affordable health insurance that actually delivers when you need it.

I talked to a doctor at Bumrungrad yesterday, and he wouldn't recommend

any Thai health insurance providers (and Bumrungrad doesn't have their own). He said that the Thai plans didn't deliver. They try to get out of paying you when you really need it (major medical bills), by paying only a fraction of the cost, or saying it was a preexisting condition, or only paying enough to ship you back home where you hopefully have some real insurance.

All insurance is a waste of money if you never use it.Not too smart not to have health insurance

[grtaylor]

A year ago, seeing a urologist at BIH after some peeing problems, I was diagnosed as having Superficial Cancer of the Bladder. Total cost of operation/treatment to date is around 200,000 baht, and basically all paid for by BUPA Blue Cross Thailand (company scheme). As it was caught in time, and dealt with efficiently and promptly, I'm on track for a full recovery from this. I agree with one of the previous posters, can you afford NOT to have insurance here?

The only unanswered question is, what happens when I retire (hopefully in about 5 years, and I am planning to stay). I will then have to go onto a personal policy, either continuing with Blue Cross or tranferring to another company. What exactly will be the situation with regard to "pre-existing conditions"? I don't know.

G

[glenbat]

grtaylor

sorry only popped in here as was wondering about medical insurance for when I make it to LOS hopefully sometime soon, but congrats on your recovery and chock dee (spelling?) for you in 2007

In uk most companies wont take on an existing problem, I've private health insurance through my employer and they looked into my medical records prior to accepting my application so it may pay you to stay with Blue Cross? Just an idea, would probably be best over here but I cant say for in LOS

Wishing you a healthy New Year

[ZEAK]

grtaylor

sorry only popped in here as was wondering about medical insurance for when I make it to LOS hopefully sometime soon, but congrats on your recovery and chock dee (spelling?) for you in 2007

In uk most companies wont take on an existing problem, I've private health insurance through my employer and they looked into my medical records prior to accepting my application so it may pay you to stay with Blue Cross? Just an idea, would probably be best over here but I cant say for in LOS

Wishing you a healthy New Year

Here in CM I have AIA for medical coverage, IE bike accident. The limit is not that much, only 50K baht per accident, temporary disability is 700 baht per week, and loss of life is 550K baht. My premium is 2630 baht per year so I am not really worried about it, but am glad I got something should I ever need it.

[Neeranam]

I didn't have any insurance for 10 years here. I saved a fortune.

I have the 'pragan sangkom' now and hope I don't save a fortune.

[billd766]

I used to have company insurance and then private medical cover after I semi retired but stopped it a few years ago as I had never put in a claim and felt that it was just a waste of money.

Last year I was working in Bangladesh, fell over and hurt my ribs. I went to hospital (paid cash) and was told that I had a heart problem. I came back to Thailand and had a double angioplasty which I paid cash for (lucky for the job).

I have been fairly fit for most of my life (I am 62) but I am getting a little concerned for the future.

[richard10365]

I have tricare from my military retirement insurance cover the big bills. What is left the little thai policies cover me in return. My last bill was 155,000 baht and I used both of them to pay for it. I think i made a little profit.

The little policy cost about 3000 baht per year.

Edited January 6, 2007 by richard10365

[Drafi]

Very wise advice Sheryl.

In the past 2 years I've had 2 friends hospitalized due to head injuries. One was the subject of a thread on TV a while back and the other is currently in hospital.

Both were unexpected accidents and the hospitals bills quickly add up.

Health insurance is definitely needed.

I have witnessed the same thing with a guy living in Ko Samui who had a motorbike accident and no insurance. He had serious head/brain injuries, fell in coma, and the very difficult head surgery amounted quickly over 1 million baht. If you or your relatives cannot pay the hospital the Thais will stop the treatment or the life prolongating measures. And taking you back home to Europe, e.g., with a privately chartered airplane, doctors on board etc, costs between 30.000 to 50.000 Euro. Don't expect much help from your embassy. Anyway, if you manage to get back home, having no health insurance for the treatment needed means that your nearest relatives will be held liable. If they have not enough money you'll become a social aid case.

This happens often enough. People living with insouciance in what seems paradise countries and, after some years, come back with empty hands, retire into the social aid net and create a lot of suffering for others around them.

That situation can easily avoided with an international health insurance which covers the basic treatments and the transport back home. It doesn't cost that much.

[tornado40]

I have witnessed the same thing with a guy living in Ko Samui who had a motorbike accident and no insurance. He had serious head/brain injuries, fell in coma, and the very difficult head surgery amounted quickly over 1 million baht. That situation can easily avoided with an international health insurance which covers the basic treatments and the transport back home. It doesn't cost that much.

My neighbour had a motorcycle accident - and had the same problem with cost of medical care

Got me thinking - so I rang the insurance company (my bank) that provides health insurance for my trips to Samui - and asked, if the injuries were from a motorcycle accident, would I be covered. They said no - you would need seperate insurance in Thailand for that

Can you get it - where?

Be aware - health insurance does not seem to cover motorcycle accidents - unless someone knows different, please let me know!

[Drafi]

Be aware - health insurance does not seem to cover motorcycle accidents - unless someone knows different, please let me know!

Not being an expert I would say that the same rules should apply as in most other countries:

As a tourist and during a limited stay abroad your home insurance normally would cover most of the costs. It would be wise to contact them for inquiries before leaving your home country

As a resident, i.e. for a longer stay abroad than 6 months, you'll lose the insurance protection from your home insurance and need a new one. All the bigger and internationally operating insurance companies surely offer some extra packages for expatriates. It may be difficult to find the best one, though. I never needed one because I never stayed in Thailand for more than 4 weeks.

As to motorcycle accidents it should be the same as with any other accidents. Accidents are generally covered but it's very easy to lose the protection, if one doesn't pay attention. Insurances do not cover cases of gross negligence or wilful acts. And the following situations are usually considered as gross negligent behaviour: driving without helmet, driving drunken, driving without licence or a non-insured motorbike/car, passing a red light, driving much too fast, driving with too many persons on the bike, driving without lights when its dark etc.

Considering how people usually drive in Ko Samui (virtually all without helmet and in the evenings often drunken) it is clear that no insurance would ever cover the costs of accidents related to that behaviour. Personally, I would refrain from using a motorbike on the island after dark. Ko Samui is known for its high accident rate.

And if you take a motorbike taxi, insist on wearing a helmet (they all do have one for passengers) and, if possible, always choose an elderly driver. They managed to survive. That is an advice some wise person from the Dominican republic gave me some years ago. Over there, they drive like hel_l, too.

[Gary A]

ALL insurance is a waste of money if you never use it. Do you feel lucky? I have health insurance and last year had acute appendicitis. The bill was 48,000 baht and the insurance paid all except 15 baht. That took care of two years of premiums. Another thing for us old codgers to think about is you have to have the insurance BEFORE you turn 65 or you will not be able to get covered. I'm pretty conservative and feel that I can't be without it.

[Basslifeform]

I would say it's a must. You never know. Myself, I have AIA insurance, which I have used in anger. The first time was when I fell off my bicycle and after putting the pedal through the back of my leg found myself with a rather serious open fracture on both the tibia and fibia. First op. cost 80,000 baht, they paid up no probs. Then three operations to take out various plates and screws, and a skin and muscle graft were also covered these spanning over three years. Then last year fell into a ditch breaking two ribs, happens when your motorcycle lands on top of you, onmce again AIA to the rescue. Like I said if your an active type, then yes, medical insurance is a must.

[Firefan]

I certainly HOPE that my health insurance premiums will be a "waste"! Same applies for my fire-insurance on my home and my life-insurance! Cheers!

[fxe1200]

For Germans there is a healthinsurance available for a travelperiod of up to one year (www.travelsecure.de), but you have to be less than 70 years of age and willing to pay 0,95 Euro a day. Besides that you can keep the prospective entitlement with your german insurance company for about 38 Euros per month. I hope something like that is available for other nationalities too.

[Heng]

Have had BUPA bail out on us before saying it was a pre-existing condition (it wasn't). They are better than nothing though if you can't afford better. If you can afford it though, go with AIA, as they are an insurance company with a real financial base and agents and customer service reps in every single city in the country... not some company (BUPA) trying to make inroads into Thailand from their 9th floor office on Silom.

2,000 a year for accident and about 19,000 a year for about 500,000 in coverage (age 31, no prior conditions). With all the idiots on the road here, one never knows when one might need it. I'm covered with State Farm from back home as well, but if you want instant recognition from hospitals here, put your AIA card in the top slot of your wallet, other insurance card next, Amex card after that... and then finally a note that says "if AIA, State Farm, or Amex still doesn't cover everything.... I hereby authorize whatever treatments are necessary and would be happy to pay cash. Get on it already!"

[billd766]

I sent an email to AIA a few days ago requesting information and rates for me aged 62, my wife at 41 and our 2 1/2 year old son.

For them no problem at all but for me!!

For you as a foreigner, may I ask some question.

- Do you work and have work permit? for life we need to have this document.

or Do you got retirement visa?

We did not provide medical for age over 60 from AIA.

May I offer medical with my other associate as broker to serve you.

Pls find attached details from LMG health insurance.

Pls advise with thanks.

So AIA is basically out of the picture and LMG have sent 2 forms in Adobe to fill out before they will commit to anything.

Under 60 and you should be OK. Over 60 is difficult.

[Heng]

Hmm... I didn't know they were less reluctant to cover foreigners or cared at all about visa or work permit status (since discarded insurance -whether by locals or foreigners- is surely a huge revenue source for all insurance companies).

[jbowman1993]

I certainly HOPE that my health insurance premiums will be a "waste"! Same applies for my fire-insurance on my home and my life-insurance! Cheers!

Amen to that brother. Those fans of risking life in LOS woith no insurance are playing russian roulette with their financial future. I wish them luck!

[dutch]

For Germans there is a healthinsurance available for a travelperiod of up to one year (www.travelsecure.de), but you have to be less than 70 years of age and willing to pay 0,95 Euro a day. Besides that you can keep the prospective entitlement with your german insurance company for about 38 Euros per month. I hope something like that is available for other nationalities too.

Not for Holland

I thought I had it well covered,in my preparation for retirement:

A written statement from my health insurance company that I could stay insured during retirement outside Holland.( to just continue my status as it has been for 42 years)

2 weeks after my 62nd birthday I received the message that there was a new law in Holland and......

at the end I stayed without an insurance or.... with a premium of growing till 1600 euro/person/MONTH,at present level (This for me and my wife 3200 euro/month!!!!!)

AIA: see previous message

Bupa:only till 70 years of age and with all the rerstrictions that a 62 years history may bring

Yes I agree with the statements that you need insurance but under the present circumstances I decided to have a special "health" account opened with enough funds to feel comfortable.But what is enough??

[chiang mai]

For Germans there is a healthinsurance available for a travelperiod of up to one year (www.travelsecure.de), but you have to be less than 70 years of age and willing to pay 0,95 Euro a day. Besides that you can keep the prospective entitlement with your german insurance company for about 38 Euros per month. I hope something like that is available for other nationalities too.

Not for Holland

I thought I had it well covered,in my preparation for retirement:

A written statement from my health insurance company that I could stay insured during retirement outside Holland.( to just continue my status as it has been for 42 years)

2 weeks after my 62nd birthday I received the message that there was a new law in Holland and......

at the end I stayed without an insurance or.... with a premium of growing till 1600 euro/person/MONTH,at present level (This for me and my wife 3200 euro/month!!!!!)

AIA: see previous message

Bupa:only till 70 years of age and with all the rerstrictions that a 62 years history may bring

Yes I agree with the statements that you need insurance but under the present circumstances I decided to have a special "health" account opened with enough funds to feel comfortable.But what is enough??

I gave up on health insurance in the UK many many years ago because of the massive increase in premium costs and fortunately I had no problems that any run of the mill doctor could not prescribe for easily. Since I have been in Thailand for the past six years I have suffered a range of complaints for which I am not insured. I had diagnostic treatment for coronary blockages, an emergency operation for hemorrhoids, and a variety of other more minor ailments. The cost of those treatments was insignificant when compared to the annualized cost of health insurance. In going forward I expect that I will continue to receive and pay for treatment for a range of conditions associated with aging and unless I get hit with a catastrophic accident or illness I will continue to be happy to pay. I remember reading an interview with a very wealthy person a few years ago where he was asked what he would do differently if he could have his time again. His response in part was that he would never buy any form of insurance since the numbers did not add up and the entire system is predicated on fear. I kinds subscribe to that way of thinking.

[think_too_mut]

My family in Thailand and myself in Japan have CIGNA Expat health insurance that is 1180US$ per month, my company pays. All covered, including dental.

What happens after that?

I would look into what the providers cover after the excess of 2-3K baht .

Some good advice in this thread.

Edited January 20, 2007 by think_too_mut

[Farma]

Something to think about.

A friend has just been medivac’d to the UK.

It cost 1.8 million Baht. The cost of his hospital treatment not included.

[Heng]

Another crazy idea for those who might want to reduce their medical expenses would be to quit (or never start) smoking and drinking.

[kebabman7]

Something else to bear in mind with insurance is that most medical policies are written on an annual contract which means they are reviewed at the end of each policy term. If you have made a claim within the policy term then they will review at renewal and may load the policy, exclude the type of incident/problem you just claimed for or simply not invite renewal

It all boils down to whether the insurer can make money from you, if they feel that you are likely to be a drain on their resources then its pay more or goodbye.

If I seem abit cynical it probably has to do with the 20 yrs experience of working in the insurance industry in UK. I'd rather buy a load of lottery tickets, should get more of a return on investment

[Gary A]

I'm 61 years old and have just paid my premium for another year. I have my policy with LMG. I have had one claim in four years and that was for acute appendicitus. The bill was 48,000 baht and they paid all but 15 baht. My premium was 23,400 baht and that covers 1,250,000 baht per occurance. As long as I keep paying the premiums each year they will not cancel the policy because of my age. It may not be the greatest but it does give my some peace of mind.