Thumbing Your Nose At Thai Law

[Little Black Duck]

Has anyone come across anybody who is flaunting the law here ??

Case scenario..I have an incident where a person is working at

his Restaurant quite blatantly, with no Non "B" visa or Work Permit

because he has several Police friends or so he thinks and a good lawyer

Might ad never wears a helmet when riding his motorcycle..

I wonder how long and how hard he will bleet when he gets caught

and wont understand why no one will feel sorry for him..

What is the general view on People like this ???

My personal opinion is it makes it hard for those doing the right thing..

[Berty]

If you can get away with it why not.

[pnustedt]

From what I see nobody in Thailand - from top to bottom - respects its laws. From the guy who rides down the road on the wrong side to the army generals who overthrow the government!

[Little Black Duck]

From what I see nobody in Thailand - from top to bottom - respects its laws. From the guy who rides down the road on the wrong side to the army generals who overthrow the government!

Yeah I've seen Police doing it, But does it make it right ???

[rak sa_ngop]

Many laws here in Thailand and many other Asian countries are not designed to be obeyed but are designed to be disobeyed.

If everybody obeyed these laws the police would have insufficient income to support their families. Therefore the police want people to break the law, and most people accept that once in a while it will be their turn to pay a random 'tax' for breaking the law.

By the way. do you as an alien in Thailand always carry your passport with you?

[naka]

Has anyone come across anybody who is flaunting the law here ??

Yup ... A few tens of millions of locals, and a swag of visitors !

Naka.

[pampal]

Bring in sharia law and we'll see who disobeys

[astral]

When in Rome............................

[The Coder]

There is an extremely important distinction here. Thailand deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly. If your visa situation is illegal or you work illegally, it is a matter of time before you will get busted. If you do other illegal things, even ones thai's are often allowed to do, they will bust you. Thailand is very serious about making sure foreigners are legal. The jails, deportation queue, and justice system is full of farangs who thought they could just do what they wanted, with the pathetic excuse it is the thai way of doing things.

Look no further than the constant threads of people getting caught. Some about the farang dropping a cigarrette becoming irate they were singled out for it. Or visa run buses singled out and overstayers jailed because so many habitually overstay. Or irate farangs when police case foreigners who appear to be working to make sure they have all the proper documents. If you keep your situation legal, Thailand welcomes you. If you don't, they make every attempt to find you and give you the boot.

Edited December 23, 2006 by The Coder

[pnustedt]

Yeah I've seen Police doing it, But does it make it right ???

That is a somewhat more complicated question.

Thailand calls itself a Constitutional Monarchy and its laws are enshrined in its constitution. As the constitution has been torn up it could be argued that there are no laws in Thailand, so yes, it is right that the laws are ignored!

[Little Black Duck]

There is an extremely important distinction here. Thailand deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly. If your visa situation is illegal or you work illegally, it is a matter of time before you will get busted. If you do other illegal things, even ones thai's are often allowed to do, they will bust you. Thailand is very serious about making sure foreigners are legal. The jails, deportation queue, and justice system is full of farangs who thought they could just do what they wanted, with the pathetic excuse it is the thai way of doing things.

Look no further than the constant threads of people getting caught. Some about the farang dropping a cigarrette becoming irate they were singled out for it. Or visa run buses singled out and overstayers jailed because so many habitually overstay. Or irate farangs when police case foreigners who appear to be working to make sure they have all the proper documents. If you keep your situation legal, Thailand welcomes you. If you don't, they make every attempt to find you and give you the boot.

Thank you The Coder..its refreshing to know that someone else takes this situation seriously..

[dgoz]

Thailand Law is an oxymoron if I've ever seen one.

Why do you become a policeman in Thailand? To make money.

That's a little strange don't you think considering the salary is about 5000b.

So, the actual laws and rules are nothing to do with anything. They are a leverage to which the police work off.

If the govt and police don't respect the law how can anyone else be expected to do so?

Edited December 23, 2006 by dgoz

[Richb2004v2]

I was thinking about how the Thais could be convinced to obey the simpler laws, and in doing so make Thailand a better place for everyone. I'm talking about not driving your car towards the flow of traffic or drink driving or littering the whole place. I figured that if someone with huge influence could be convinced to mention these things in one of his speeches I am sure everything would change. There is a man that can do that, but I'm afraid to mention his name. In the past when ever this man mentions something critically the Thais jump to follow his wishes.

[qualtrough]

There is an extremely important distinction here. Thailand deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly. If your visa situation is illegal or you work illegally, it is a matter of time before you will get busted. If you do other illegal things, even ones thai's are often allowed to do, they will bust you. Thailand is very serious about making sure foreigners are legal. The jails, deportation queue, and justice system is full of farangs who thought they could just do what they wanted, with the pathetic excuse it is the thai way of doing things.

Look no further than the constant threads of people getting caught. Some about the farang dropping a cigarrette becoming irate they were singled out for it. Or visa run buses singled out and overstayers jailed because so many habitually overstay. Or irate farangs when police case foreigners who appear to be working to make sure they have all the proper documents. If you keep your situation legal, Thailand welcomes you. If you don't, they make every attempt to find you and give you the boot.

Complete <deleted> that it is only a matter of time, unless you are referrring to a lifetime. Yes, you can get busted, but for most the chances are not that great unless they are really blatant, and furthermore, most get off with what in most cases ends up being not too large a fine. Note that the two examples you cite are people who broke the law blatantly right in front of an official (dropping a butt), or overstaying beyond the already generous amount of time allowed. Both of those situations are akin to daring the officials to arrest them.

Also amusing that you think that Thailand, "deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly." Yes, if it is drugs, not so much if it is more mundane things.

Now, having said that, I would advise anyone I know to be legal as far as work permits, etc., which is what I do and have always done, but I also wouldn't paint as dire a picture as you did.

[El Taco Loco]

At the traffic light near my how. T section, green arrow to turn right.

God, it takes forever, and no traffic coming towards me. I turn right 4-7 times a day without green arrow, unless there are cars or motoby in front.

[endure]

'The Law' is a set of circumstances which a majority of people in any given situation agree will circumscribe their actions. This 'law' may be overt and transparent as is often the case in the west. It may be a set of cultural assumptions, not written down but understood by those who were born into that culture but not by outsiders. The fact that your assumptions aren't congruent with those of the Thais doesn't mean that they are 'wrong'. It means that they are different.

[Little Black Duck]

There is an extremely important distinction here. Thailand deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly. If your visa situation is illegal or you work illegally, it is a matter of time before you will get busted. If you do other illegal things, even ones thai's are often allowed to do, they will bust you. Thailand is very serious about making sure foreigners are legal. The jails, deportation queue, and justice system is full of farangs who thought they could just do what they wanted, with the pathetic excuse it is the thai way of doing things.

Look no further than the constant threads of people getting caught. Some about the farang dropping a cigarrette becoming irate they were singled out for it. Or visa run buses singled out and overstayers jailed because so many habitually overstay. Or irate farangs when police case foreigners who appear to be working to make sure they have all the proper documents. If you keep your situation legal, Thailand welcomes you. If you don't, they make every attempt to find you and give you the boot.

Complete <deleted> that it is only a matter of time, unless you are referrring to a lifetime. Yes, you can get busted, but for most the chances are not that great unless they are really blatant, and furthermore, most get off with what in most cases ends up being not too large a fine. Note that the two examples you cite are people who broke the law blatantly right in front of an official (dropping a butt), or overstaying beyond the already generous amount of time allowed. Both of those situations are akin to daring the officials to arrest them.

Also amusing that you think that Thailand, "deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly." Yes, if it is drugs, not so much if it is more mundane things.

Now, having said that, I would advise anyone I know to be legal as far as work permits, etc., which is what I do and have always done, but I also wouldn't paint as dire a picture as you did.

Qualtrough..I originally posted this and you have just agreed with my view I think..

most of the responses are from people on other visas and who don't work..

I was talking about people who work and make no effort to conceal it

who think just because they know a few police they are OK..

[Heng]

Laws are like religion... meant primarily for the weak minded who can't adequately manage their lives without published rules and guidelines.

[qualtrough]

There is an extremely important distinction here. Thailand deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly. If your visa situation is illegal or you work illegally, it is a matter of time before you will get busted. If you do other illegal things, even ones thai's are often allowed to do, they will bust you. Thailand is very serious about making sure foreigners are legal. The jails, deportation queue, and justice system is full of farangs who thought they could just do what they wanted, with the pathetic excuse it is the thai way of doing things.

Look no further than the constant threads of people getting caught. Some about the farang dropping a cigarrette becoming irate they were singled out for it. Or visa run buses singled out and overstayers jailed because so many habitually overstay. Or irate farangs when police case foreigners who appear to be working to make sure they have all the proper documents. If you keep your situation legal, Thailand welcomes you. If you don't, they make every attempt to find you and give you the boot.

Complete <deleted> that it is only a matter of time, unless you are referrring to a lifetime. Yes, you can get busted, but for most the chances are not that great unless they are really blatant, and furthermore, most get off with what in most cases ends up being not too large a fine. Note that the two examples you cite are people who broke the law blatantly right in front of an official (dropping a butt), or overstaying beyond the already generous amount of time allowed. Both of those situations are akin to daring the officials to arrest them.

Also amusing that you think that Thailand, "deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly." Yes, if it is drugs, not so much if it is more mundane things.

Now, having said that, I would advise anyone I know to be legal as far as work permits, etc., which is what I do and have always done, but I also wouldn't paint as dire a picture as you did.

Qualtrough..I originally posted this and you have just agreed with my view I think..

most of the responses are from people on other visas and who don't work..

I was talking about people who work and make no effort to conceal it

who think just because they know a few police they are OK..

OK, but I still feel that the chances of getting caught (if you keep a low profile) are not that great in most cases, and the penalties are not that draconian. Now, if you are not a farang that is a completely different issue. And yes, of course there are exceptions.

I would like to ask why this farang working without a permit concerns you? Unless he is engaged in an otherwise illegal business he is contributing his money into the business and therefore into the Thai economy, attracting people to Thailand and consequently bringing more money into the Thai economy, and employing Thais as well. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. Now, if he is foolish enough not to want to go through the legal hoops and get the proper visas and work permits that is his lookout, and between him and the authorities, but I don't know why that would bother you or somehow reflect on farangs in general. I would venture to say that most Thais would not care one whit about what he is doing, and the few that would are of the variety that would like to see no farangs working here, permits or not.

[Little Black Duck]

There is an extremely important distinction here. Thailand deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly. If your visa situation is illegal or you work illegally, it is a matter of time before you will get busted. If you do other illegal things, even ones thai's are often allowed to do, they will bust you. Thailand is very serious about making sure foreigners are legal. The jails, deportation queue, and justice system is full of farangs who thought they could just do what they wanted, with the pathetic excuse it is the thai way of doing things.

Look no further than the constant threads of people getting caught. Some about the farang dropping a cigarrette becoming irate they were singled out for it. Or visa run buses singled out and overstayers jailed because so many habitually overstay. Or irate farangs when police case foreigners who appear to be working to make sure they have all the proper documents. If you keep your situation legal, Thailand welcomes you. If you don't, they make every attempt to find you and give you the boot.

Complete <deleted> that it is only a matter of time, unless you are referrring to a lifetime. Yes, you can get busted, but for most the chances are not that great unless they are really blatant, and furthermore, most get off with what in most cases ends up being not too large a fine. Note that the two examples you cite are people who broke the law blatantly right in front of an official (dropping a butt), or overstaying beyond the already generous amount of time allowed. Both of those situations are akin to daring the officials to arrest them.

Also amusing that you think that Thailand, "deals with *foreigners* who abuse and break their laws very seriously and harshly." Yes, if it is drugs, not so much if it is more mundane things.

Now, having said that, I would advise anyone I know to be legal as far as work permits, etc., which is what I do and have always done, but I also wouldn't paint as dire a picture as you did.

Qualtrough..I originally posted this and you have just agreed with my view I think..

most of the responses are from people on other visas and who don't work..

I was talking about people who work and make no effort to conceal it

who think just because they know a few police they are OK..

OK, but I still feel that the chances of getting caught (if you keep a low profile) are not that great in most cases, and the penalties are not that draconian. Now, if you are not a farang that is a completely different issue. And yes, of course there are exceptions.

I would like to ask why this farang working without a permit concerns you? Unless he is engaged in an otherwise illegal business he is contributing his money into the business and therefore into the Thai economy, attracting people to Thailand and consequently bringing more money into the Thai economy, and employing Thais as well. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. Now, if he is foolish enough not to want to go through the legal hoops and get the proper visas and work permits that is his lookout, and between him and the authorities, but I don't know why that would bother you or somehow reflect on farangs in general. I would venture to say that most Thais would not care one whit about what he is doing, and the few that would are of the variety that would like to see no farangs working here, permits or not.

Quite Simply my Friend..He is taking business away from struggling Thai people..He employs no Thais, and contrary to your beliefs it will be a Thai restaurateur that will call Immigration when he or she feels their livelihood is at stake...

[qualtrough]

Quite Simply my Friend..He is taking business away from struggling Thai people..He employs no Thais, and contrary to your beliefs it will be a Thai restaurateur that will call Immigration when he or she feels their livelihood is at stake...

OK, first off, I am not your friend. Second, you said this person worked in 'his restaurant'. That implies that he is the owner. So are you saying that the cooks, servers, cashier, etc. are all non-thais? Or are you saying that he runs a one-man restaurant? Either case would be very strange indeed. At any rate, your argument that by running a restaurant he is putting a Thai out of work is fallacious. All restaurants are not equal. Just because a Thai or anyone else opens a restaurant does not mean they are going to succeed. Furthermore, there are legal means by which farangs can get around restrictions on operating a bar/restaurant, so even if he was putting Thais out of work the only difference in the situation is that he is doing so outside of the law, not within. I still don't see how this is any of your concern. Why not worry about how you can make this a better place and let fate or the authorities sort this guy out? Sounds to me like he did something else to annoy you.

[Little Black Duck]

Quite Simply my Friend..He is taking business away from struggling Thai people..He employs no Thais, and contrary to your beliefs it will be a Thai restaurateur that will call Immigration when he or she feels their livelihood is at stake...

OK, first off, I am not your friend. Second, you said this person worked in 'his restaurant'. That implies that he is the owner. So are you saying that the cooks, servers, cashier, etc. are all non-thais? Or are you saying that he runs a one-man restaurant? Either case would be very strange indeed. At any rate, your argument that by running a restaurant he is putting a Thai out of work is fallacious. All restaurants are not equal. Just because a Thai or anyone else opens a restaurant does not mean they are going to succeed. Furthermore, there are legal means by which farangs can get around restrictions on operating a bar/restaurant, so even if he was putting Thais out of work the only difference in the situation is that he is doing so outside of the law, not within. I still don't see how this is any of your concern. Why not worry about how you can make this a better place and let fate or the authorities sort this guy out? Sounds to me like he did something else to annoy you.

I'm frightfully sorry for calling you my Friend..

I'm sorry for misleading you as well,he has a Thai Wife who helps..

Yes he annoys me because we have a Business that's legal, we employ Thais, we pay for the Correct Visas and Work Permits as well as Personal income tax and Company Tax..We also keep a very low profile and try not to upset anyone..Reason enough??

May I be so bold as to enquire if you are in Business ??

Edited December 24, 2006 by Little Black Duck

[Heng]

Nothing wrong with reporting those who are breaking the law. Business is war, and likely it'll just force your competition to get legal... which should be better for everyone.

[old wanderer]

Very Intresting.........The attitudes here.....almost like those folks in jail who's code of "honor" prohibits one another for pointing out those that break the rules.

I agree with LBD.....he runs a ligit buisness. We can all see those farangs that have flaunted the visa rules of Thailand and have resulted in more restrictions for everyone.

Since I am do not work in Thailand, and have no desire to do so, but do hope to enjoy my end days with my wife there, it would take very little of a person flaunting his lawlesness for me to take action to terminate it. I care little if "everyone" is my friend.

[mogoso]

Bring in sharia law and we'll see who disobeys

Give it another 20 years or so, it just might occur

[Couthy]

Has anyone come across anybody who is flaunting the law here ??

Case scenario..I have an incident where a person is working at

his Restaurant quite blatantly, with no Non "B" visa or Work Permit

because he has several Police friends or so he thinks and a good lawyer

Might ad never wears a helmet when riding his motorcycle..

I wonder how long and how hard he will bleet when he gets caught

and wont understand why no one will feel sorry for him..

What is the general view on People like this ???

My personal opinion is it makes it hard for those doing the right thing..

Your average Thai will tell you this : "Laws are made to be broken".

"The enforcers make it up as they go along".

Want a translation?.

Personally I probably break the law about ten times every day, but nothing too naughty.

I just love the anarchy in Thailand - a self regulating society.

Seems to work OK.................

[rak sa_ngop]

Quite Simply my Friend..He is taking business away from struggling Thai people..He employs no Thais, and contrary to your beliefs it will be a Thai restaurateur that will call Immigration when he or she feels their livelihood is at stake...

OK, first off, I am not your friend. Second, you said this person worked in 'his restaurant'. That implies that he is the owner. So are you saying that the cooks, servers, cashier, etc. are all non-thais? Or are you saying that he runs a one-man restaurant? Either case would be very strange indeed. At any rate, your argument that by running a restaurant he is putting a Thai out of work is fallacious. All restaurants are not equal. Just because a Thai or anyone else opens a restaurant does not mean they are going to succeed. Furthermore, there are legal means by which farangs can get around restrictions on operating a bar/restaurant, so even if he was putting Thais out of work the only difference in the situation is that he is doing so outside of the law, not within. I still don't see how this is any of your concern. Why not worry about how you can make this a better place and let fate or the authorities sort this guy out? Sounds to me like he did something else to annoy you.

Just as a general observation when you visit Siam Reap you will see nearly all the foreign owned restaurants packed out with customers whereaas the Cambodian owned restaurants with cheaper prices tend to have fewer customers. I would think that many Cambodians working in the foreign bars are grateful for the work (and possibly the better working conditions) provided by foreign owner managers who know better what the customers want and providing it.

[drummer]

Laws are like religion... meant primarily for the weak minded who can't adequately manage their lives without published rules and guidelines.

They say that the system is best if everyone follows the rules, BUT YOU. The next est is everyone follows he rules, but you and a few others. Then everyone follows the rules, lastly nobody follows the rules.

It seems to me that humans have, until very recently, all lived in societies that largely governed themselves. Populations have been too small to do anything but.

[backflip]

I have seen many people flout the law. I haven't seen many flaunt the law, though.

[qualtrough]

I'm frightfully sorry for calling you my Friend..

Apology accepted.

I'm sorry for misleading you as well,he has a Thai Wife who helps..

So, that's one Thai gaining employment through his restaurant. Are you sure there are no others? A two-person restaurant is a pretty tiny operation.

Yes he annoys me because we have a Business that's legal, we employ Thais, we pay for the Correct Visas and Work Permits as well as Personal income tax and Company Tax..We also keep a very low profile and try not to upset anyone..Reason enough??

OK, so now the real reason comes out. It is not really about struggling Thais is it? More likely about struggling farangs. Why didn't you mention that in the first place? And by the way, what does his not wearing a helmet have to do with your running a restaurant??

May I be so bold as to enquire if you are in Business ??

Why, so you can focus your nosey business on me too?? Sorry, the less people like you know about me, the better. If you would focus more attention on your business and less on what your neighbor is doing you might be more successful.

Edited December 24, 2006 by qualtrough