Softening his approach, Trump helps seal a healthcare deal

[Jingthing]

trumpcare is not a solution.

 

 

Quote

 

The New Study That Shows Trumpcare’s Damage

The Republican health bill is simply a bad bill. It’s been blasted by conservative and liberal health experts, as well as groups representing patients, doctors, nurses and hospitals. Above all, the bill cuts health benefits for the poor, the middle class, the elderly and the sick, and it funnels the savings to tax cuts for the rich.

In the name of a political victory for themselves and Trump, House Republicans may now be on the verge of passing the bill anyway. The only things that can keep it from becoming law — and harming millions of Americans — is the United States Senate.

 

 

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Massive political victory for Trump!

 

Kills the Democrats attempt to get Americans hooked on government handouts. 

 

Allows individual states to decide what type of health insurance system they want and how much they want to give indigent patients. 

 

It frees Americans from gray government clerks running their lives. 

 

Land of the free, home of the brave. 

You may want to consider the complex details of what trumpcare would actually do before painting this in such simplistic terms.

 

For but one example of the utter HORROR of this turkey:

Quote

For example, a 60-year-old living in Phoenix and earning $40,000 would have to pay an additional $12,370 a year to buy a policy, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. Many people who find themselves in this situation would have no choice but to forgo insurance.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/opinion/obamacare-house-vote.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=opinion&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article

[funandsuninbangkok]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You may want to consider the complex details of what trumpcare would actually do before painting this in such simplistic terms.

 

For but one example of the utter HORROR of this turkey:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/04/opinion/obamacare-house-vote.html?ribbon-ad-idx=4&rref=opinion&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&pgtype=article

 

1 make more money

2 buy less coverage

3 don't get sick

4 go to county hospital and trash the bill

[boomerangutang]

There's a revealing montage of Ryan quotes, all of 'em video format.  It shows him speaking, months ago,  during times when Republicans were trying desperately to squelch Democrats quest for ACA.  

 

Everything Ryan is emphasizing, has been done 10x worse by Ryan in the past few days.

 

It's comical.  I wish I had the montage, but can't locate it again on Youtube.  If I find it, I'll post it here.

 

Ryan, like Trump, is beyond hypocritical.  It's like he's purposefully contradicting himself to try to be funny.  But of course he's not funny.  How anyone can publicly lie so brazenly, is nutzoid.  Does he not know he's being videotaped?  Does he not care?

[MarkusAUST]

The headline suggests this is a done deal, but it has not been to the Senate yet, where I doubt it will get the necessary 60%.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, MarkusAUST said:

The headline suggests this is a done deal, but it has not been to the Senate yet, where I doubt it will get the necessary 60%.

Actually, since it's being done under the reconciliation protocol, it only needs 51 percent.  That said, there are at least 3 Republican senator  - probably more -for whom it would be political suicide to support this bill in anything like its present form. And without them, the bill dies. And Senators have said that they're going to start from scratch in crafting a bill.  Which means it will probably be so unlike the house bill that they won't be able to reconcile it with the house.

[MarkusAUST]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually, since it's being done under the reconciliation protocol, it only needs 51 percent.  That said, there are at least 3 Republican senator  - probably more -for whom it would be political suicide to support this bill in anything like its present form. And without them, the bill dies. And Senators have said that they're going to start from scratch in crafting a bill.  Which means it will probably be so unlike the house bill that they won't be able to reconcile it with the house.

maybe I have it wrong and if so please correct me. I thought the nuclear option of a simple majority rather than 60% was needed to actually pass an act of legislation?

I know it was used for Gorsuch, but that was for the Supreme Court, not legislation.

[Jingthing]

For legislation it's 60. For budget reconciliation which is what they intend to try for trumpcare it's 50 plus the VP.

[mike324]

Rape is classified as a pre-existing condition under Trumpcare - disgusting

 

[Dagnabbit]

I have no predictions now.
Obviously, it's a fact that this isn't nearly over yet.
But I would have predicted the entire "repeal and replace" the ACA was finished until after the 2018 midterm elections. But that didn't happen. 

Good idea.

None of your other predictions came to pass after all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

 

1 make more money

2 buy less coverage

3 don't get sick

4 go to county hospital and trash the bill

Horribly callous.

This is the republican brand. 

Just let the poor, sick, and old suffer and die.

Also go bankrupt with health care costs if they aren't already. Barbaric and horrendous. Obamacare was a first step away from that idiocy. Now we're going backwards if trumpcare passes.

I actually think you're playing games. 

But I'll address your absurd list --

 

1. Make more money. 

A small percentage of people over 60 might be able to. The vast majority could not and would be fortunate to keep in employment after that age.

2. Buy less coverage.

Older people are very likely to have chronic health conditions. That is the group that absolutely needs better coverage.

3. Don't get sick.

People don't wish to get sick. You will see one day, my friend. That is, if you are a human being. 

4.  go to county hospital and trash the bill

Stupidity! Yes, people can go to the ER for chronic events. They will be stabilized and sent on their way. A very expensive and inefficient way to deliver health care, with poor outcomes.

As stated before, older people tend to have a high rate of CHRONIC health conditions. The ER thing is for ACUTE events. The most sensible tactic for people with chronic conditions is continuing care trying to totally avoid the ACUTE emergencies.

 

But you know, my friend, callous posts and politicians like yours will in the long run bring the U.S. health care system towards civilization. Universal health care is the only path for that, and also the only path to seriously attack the overpricing in the U.S. system. Even trump seems to know that, but instead he's supporting a move in the OPPOSITE direction. 

 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jingthing

[Thakkar]

Under this bill, if you have a pre-existing condition, you can either be denied insurance, or charged very high premiums, rates that most middle class people, and certainly all lower middle and poorer people couldn't afford.

 

Here's a PARTIAL list of pre existing conditions:

 

AIDS/HIV, acid reflux, acne, ADD, addiction, Alzheimer's/dementia, anemia, aneurysm, angioplasty…

 

…anorexia, anxiety, arrhythmia, arthritis, asthma, atrial fibrillation, autism, bariatric surgery, basal cell carcinoma…

 

…bipolar disorder, blood clot, breast cancer, bulimia, bypass surgery, celiac disease, cerebral aneurysm, cerebral embolism…

 

…cerebral palsy, cerebral thrombosis, cervical cancer, colon cancer, colon polyps, congestive heart failure, COPD, Crohn's disease…

 

…cystic fibrosis, DMD, depression, diabetes, disabilities, Down syndrome, eating disorder, enlarged prostate, epilepsy, glaucoma…

 

…gout, heart disease, heart murmur, heartburn, hemophilia, hepatitis C, herpes, high cholesterol, hypertension, hysterectomy…

 

…kidney disease, kidney stones, kidney transplant, leukemia, lung cancer, lupus, lymphoma, mental health issues, migraines, MS…

 

…muscular dystrophy, narcolepsy, nasal polyps, obesity, OCD, organ transplant, osteoporosis, pacemaker, panic disorder, paralysis…

 

…paraplegia, Parkinson's disease, pregnancy, restless leg syndrome, schizophrenia, seasonal affective disorder, seizures…

 

…sickle cell disease, skin cancer, sleep apnea, sleep disorders, stent, stroke, thyroid issues, tooth disease, tuberculosis…

 

…and ulcers. To name a few. And chances are, you or someone you know has dealt with something (or multiple things) on this list.

— Sherrod Brown (@SenSherrodBrown) May 4, 2017

 

[funandsuninbangkok]

50 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Horribly callous.

This is the republican brand. 

Just let the poor, sick, and old suffer and die.

Also go bankrupt with health care costs if they aren't already. Barbaric and horrendous. Obamacare was a first step away from that idiocy. Now we're going backwards if trumpcare passes.

I actually think you're playing games. 

But I'll address your absurd list --

 

1. Make more money. 

A small percentage of people over 60 might be able to. The vast majority could not and would be fortunate to keep in employment after that age.

2. Buy less coverage.

Older people are very likely to have chronic health conditions. That is the group that absolutely needs better coverage.

3. Don't get sick.

People don't wish to get sick. You will see one day, my friend. That is, if you are a human being. 

4.  go to county hospital and trash the bill

Stupidity! Yes, people can go to the ER for chronic events. They will be stabilized and sent on their way. A very expensive and inefficient way to deliver health care, with poor outcomes.

As stated before, older people tend to have a high rate of CHRONIC health conditions. The ER thing is for ACUTE events. The most sensible tactic for people with chronic conditions is continuing care trying to totally avoid the ACUTE emergencies.

 

But you know, my friend, callous posts and politicians like yours will in the long run bring the U.S. health care system towards civilization. Universal health care is the only path for that, and also the only path to seriously attack the overpricing in the U.S. system. Even trump seems to know that, but instead he's supporting a move in the OPPOSITE direction. 

 

Commie

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Commie

From the likes of you, I'll take that as a complement.

Are British tories (the conservative party) that support continuation of their National Health also commies, dude. Let us know. 

Generally, almost all the advanced civilized western nations have some kind of universal health care system.

The USA is the outlier and the suffering and premature deaths that has caused is a national shame and embarrassment.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

I want to add something about the elephant in the room. COSTS. The U.S. system is the most expensive in the world with nowhere near the health outcomes or full access that you would expect from that over that top expense.

 

Obamacare shied away from universal for practical political reasons (Obama concluded he could never pass it) and so the plan was largely about SHIFTING costs away from the poorer and sicker towards the more wealthy and younger/healthier. 

 

trumpcare is also about shifting costs, but in the totally opposite direction. 

 

But no plan short of a nationalized universal is going to really work well that doesn't RADICALLY address the core problem ... massive costliness.

 

It's no surprise that universal is becoming much more popular and politically possible. Bernie Sanders, so popular with younger Americans, ran on an agenda explicitly for it. If he had been elected he wouldn't have had the votes in congress to pass it, but that is the future direction. Will it take 5 or 50 years, I don't know, but that's the direction, and the callousness of trumpcare ironically will likely speed that inevitably up. 

[ilostmypassword]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I want to add something about the elephant in the room. COSTS. The U.S. system is the most expensive in the world with nowhere near the health outcomes or full access that you would expect from that over that top expense.

 

 

It actually has worse outcomes than most of the health care systems in the world's fully developed economies.