Thailand's road deaths - An elephant in the room?

[Airbagwill]

Why are there so many deaths on Thai roads? One of the elephants in the room...

 

There are a lot of misconceptions about road safety, one of the most obvious is simply blaming the drivers for everything - driving is only part of road safety anyway. This distorted perception was proved redundant over 50 years ago. The fact is that all countries have idiot drivers but most accidents are caused by “minor” human error not gross stupidity.
(Most people don’t actually know how the collision they’ve been in occurred - One of the most common statements that responders hear after an crash is “I just didn’t see.....”)

 

Most West European governments and their road safety programs can usually be summed up with the 5 Es; a combination of limiting human error in general and limiting the risks through road and vehicle design and engineering, enforcement, evaluation and emergency services.. This is reflected in the relative success of road safety in Europe. It has been achieved not through apportioning “blame” but by application of a scientific approach and developing a considered infrastructure. Road safety is far more than just driving - it involves the full environment created by roadways.

 

If a country is rife with corruption, road safety has an uphill climb; A corrupt country ends up being run not by people who merit the job, but by friends or relatives of people in power and those who “paid” for the job.... these people are very often incapable of performing their job properly.

As a result of years of graft, nepotism and corruption, ignorance and incompetence manifests itself in all aspects of life in that country as people rise to power that are unqualified for the positions they are allotted. This permeates all aspects of life, from politics through business and commerce to social issues - e.g. healthcare, and inevitably in any policies concerned with transport and road safety.

Is it coincidence or can we apply this to the situation to road safety in Thailand and in one aspect in particular?
 
As a result of successive governments having no real grasp of the elements of road safety, Thailand, rather than adopting a comprehensive national road safety plan has simply resorted to a series of knee-jerk responses to individual or perceived problems put forward by people who are not well informed enough to take appropriate actions.

Road safety in Thailand gives the impression of suffering grossly from the inability of those in charge to understand the situation properly.

The country has for decades addressed the problems of road safety on one hand through a series of ill-thought out and un-researched dictums and on the other with an untrammelled love of the motorcar and a total lack of national policy towards transportation and road use.
The result is a massive and ill-designed road system with no attention paid to safety of the users or the impact on society and the environment.

 

Time and again the un-informed resort to blaming the driver for the carnage on Thailand’s roads - of course politicians love this as it diverts the blame from the real culprits - the politicians themselves. For it is they who over the past 3 or 4 decades through their mismanagement have created what is arguably one of the most lethal road systems in the world.

 

To bring Thailand into the 21st (or even the 20th) century, we need the 5 Es to be implemented - implementing only some does not address the problem and will not result in any serious changes. - But in the meantime there is still the serious question of how much each “E” contributes to overall road safety figures.  Naturally this is not easy to divine in a country that doesn’t have comprehensive statistics of crashes, or a mechanism for compiling and studying them.

 

Thailand does not actually seem to pay much heed to statistics at all - who needs to when you can resort to dictum? The PM has even warned against using statistics that portray Thailand in a bad light. - The truth is that road deaths are about the only road safety statistic calculated here - in countries with “proper” road safety programs the stats are far more comprehensive. 
For instance it is normal practice when gathering stats on road safety to firstly list the number of incidents and then personal injuries are broken down into 3 categories deaths/serious/minor injuries - apart for the period of Songkhran with a 2 category system there doesn’t appear to be anything approaching this available in Thailand.

 

However it has been pointed out that the number of incidents and collisions in Thailand are at about the same level as most other countries - i.e. UK.........yet the UK has less than 1 tenth the number of reported road deaths.... so what is happening? 

 

If the same numbers are having accidents as other countries what is the factor that allows so many more to die?

 

There is one major factor that could account for Thailand’s high fatality figures; the elephant in the room, so to speak -

 

In Thailand, one of the 5 Es of road safety is almost completely ignored - and that E is EMERGENCY.

 

Ignorance, incompetence and lack of action in both road safety and health services have combined to create a “perfect storm” for those injured in road incidents.

 

If you end up injured in Thailand your chances of death are at least TEN TIMES higher than that of the UK!!

 

The healthcare system in Thailand is seriously flawed - like road safety it is the product of corruption and resulting poor training, poor services and unaccountability leading to incompetence and rampant negligence. 

 

People who shouldn’t be dying are - and according to the stats, on a biblical scale.

 

There is no national emergency response system to speak of - hospitals and ambulance services are left to themselves to decide what sort of emergencies they are equipped for and respond to.... first responders are poorly trained and poorly equipped, in some case downright inappropriately equipped... and hospitals are a lottery when it comes to A & E facilities.

 

Patients are often transferred from one hospital to another - without any real explanation - often it could be a lack of expertise, equipment or simple lack of insurance by the victim. 

 

Expats too beware! In the heat of the moment it really doesn’t matter what insurance you have - however comprehensive - it is down to the first responders to decide where you will end up - in a crash you may well be far away from your home hospital and unable to communicate. It is also known for the ambulance pick up drivers to end up fighting over who takes who to what hospital - this clearly is not in the interests of the victims.

 

TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE!

 

In UK ambulance response time target to a category one emergency is 8 minutes - in Thailand there apparently isn’t one; frequently an ambulance doesn’t even come - or even the police - response times aren’t even specified; they are long inconsistent disorganised and erratic.... and even when the patient arrives at a hospital the level of treatment is little more than a lottery. 

 

The problem here is that is can literally be a matter of life and death for an accident victim - without immediate or prompt medical care, both at the scene and in A&E, even those with relatively minor injuries can go into shock and die. Yet the Thai medical system appears to be completely incapable of effectively dealing with blunt force traumas and the injuries and associated risks concomitant with road casualties. 

 

Shock is a serious problem that the tardy Thai emergency services just doesn’t seem to recognise or cope with.......

 

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/000039.htm
“Shock is a life-threatening condition that occurs when the body is not getting enough blood flow. Lack of blood flow means that the cells and organs do not get enough oxygen and nutrients to function properly. Many organs can be damaged as a result. Shock requires immediate treatment and can get worse very rapidly. As many 1 in 5 people who suffer shock will die from it.”

 

https://www.nigms.nih.gov/Education/Pages/Factsheet_Trauma.aspx
“People with major injuries have a better chance of survival today than in any time in the past. Yet trauma patients still face the risk of death from shock (caused by massive blood loss), infection, multiple organ dysfunction syndrome, acute respiratory distress syndrome or sepsis.” 

 

- but apparently in Thailand scant regard is paid to this in terms of the trauma associated with road crashes..

 

Yes - it would help if motorcyclists wore crash helmets, yes, it would help if drivers were better educated, yes it would help if police enforced the law, yes it would help if roads were better designed and vehicles were more roadworthy. These are all Es, but when it comes to the crunch - literally - it is what happens AFTER the impact that is crucial to survival and emergency services are a crucial part of this - Thailand’s level of achievement in this field is incontrovertibly inadequate.

 

So before you start ranting about how bad Thai drivers are based solely on one set of statistics - deaths per 100k - remember, they apparently have no more incidents than in most other countries, and if you yourself are constantly stressed out by driving of “others”, you probably need to include yourself amongst those who are representing a danger to road users, but most significant of all, if the worst happens regardless of “blame”, your survival will depend not on “being in the right” but on the emergency services that respond at the time.

[grollies]

@Airbagwill

 

good choice of name mate.

 

Some interesting points though. 

[sekmet]

Really liking your rant. On the upside, wish I had an elephant

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[Kwasaki]

30 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Why are there so many deaths on Thai roads?

Many reasons l'm surprised there are not more.

 

31 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

blaming the drivers for everything

Most accidents one or other of drivers are making the mistake or are inexperienced.

 

33 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The result is a massive and ill-designed road system with no attention paid to safety

Don't know how you work that out, roads still in development in many places.

 

36 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

The healthcare system in Thailand is seriously flawed.

the Thai medical system appears to be completely incapable of effectively dealing with blunt force traumas and the injuries

Absolute nonsense l have had better treated here than in the UK.

 

56 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

If you end up injured in Thailand your chances of death are at least TEN TIMES higher than that of the UK!!

Comparing UK to Thailand is rather silly,  l feel much safer driving around Thailand than l did in UK.

A nice lot of easy to do Thai bash,  if someone thinks like you it's time to go home. 

[giddyup]

 l feel much safer driving around Thailand than l did in UK.

 

Feeling safer and being safer are two different things. Road statistics prove that you are not.

[Kwasaki]

44 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 l feel much safer driving around Thailand than l did in UK.

 

Feeling safer and being safer are two different things. Road statistics prove that you are not.

Agree to a point a lot depends on where you drive a lot.  

[jeab1980]

Same old same old. Got into the second paragraph and got bored. The 5 es indeed rember this us Thailand not your home country.

[giddyup]

23 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Agree to a point a lot depends on where you drive a lot.  

Yes, if you drive where there are no people, no animals, no motorbikes or cars you're pretty safe.

[jeab1980]

JBeen driving here 15yrs plus never had an accident on the road. Never seen one to tell the truth. Driven in lots of other countries before Thailand, no diffrent in my opinion. Before its asked ive driven the lengh and breath of Thailand.  Lucky who knows a point that can never be proved. Good driving, courteous to other road, users and non aggressive,  coupled with  a good road sense. I belive is my luck.

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

JBeen driving here 15yrs plus never had an accident on the road. Never seen one to tell the truth. Driven in lots of other countries before Thailand, no diffrent in my opinion. Before its asked ive driven the lengh and breath of Thailand.  Lucky who knows a point that can never be proved. Good driving, courteous to other road, users and non aggressive,  coupled with  a good road sense. I belive is my luck.

How many have been killed on those same roads in 15 years? I had an accident free record for nearly 50 years until a drunk, young speeding hoon lost control and crossed to my side of the road, wrote off my car and nearly killed me. Point being, no matter how safely you drive, it's sometimes impossible to avoid idiots. So yes, you've been lucky.

[jeab1980]

36 minutes ago, giddyup said:

How many have been killed on those same roads in 15 years? I had an accident free record for nearly 50 years until a drunk, young speeding hoon lost control and crossed to my side of the road, wrote off my car and nearly killed me. Point being, no matter how safely you drive, it's sometimes impossible to avoid idiots. So yes, you've been lucky.

I dont know how many have been killed i dont count when i see articles of road accidents as they have nothing to so with me. I do not consider my self lucky at all as i explained in my post. You make your own luck if there is such a thing. So i consider myself to be a good safe driver able to spot hazards and avoid them. Complacency is the key. Plenty of breaks and rests. I could just as easily be killed by a falling tree or falling over and striking my head.

[giddyup]

32 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

I dont know how many have been killed i dont count when i see articles of road accidents as they have nothing to so with me. I do not consider my self lucky at all as i explained in my post. You make your own luck if there is such a thing. So i consider myself to be a good safe driver able to spot hazards and avoid them. Complacency is the key. Plenty of breaks and rests. I could just as easily be killed by a falling tree or falling over and striking my head.

Did you read my post? You want to tell me how I could have avoided a speeding, drunk motorist, who suddenly veered to the wrong side of the road and caused a head on collision with me? Sorry, but if you imagine you can avoid every accident because you think you're such a great driver, you're a fool.

[NoshowJones]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Many reasons l'm surprised there are not more.

 

Most accidents one or other of drivers are making the mistake or are inexperienced.

 

Don't know how you work that out, roads still in development in many places.

 

Absolute nonsense l have had better treated here than in the UK.

 

Comparing UK to Thailand is rather silly,  l feel much safer driving around Thailand than l did in UK.

A nice lot of easy to do Thai bash,  if someone thinks like you it's time to go home. 

What a load of nonsense, is the OP not entitled to any opinions without some deluded member of the "if you don't like it go home" brigade making an appearance?

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

How many have been killed on those same roads in 15 years? I had an accident free record for nearly 50 years until a drunk, young speeding hoon lost control and crossed to my side of the road, wrote off my car and nearly killed me. Point being, no matter how safely you drive, it's sometimes impossible to avoid idiots. So yes, you've been lucky.

I have had nearly twelve years of driving and riding here in Thailand and never had an accident, but I must say your post is spot on.

[jeab1980]

46 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Did you read my post? You want to tell me how I could have avoided a speeding, drunk motorist, who suddenly veered to the wrong side of the road and caused a head on collision with me? Sorry, but if you imagine you can avoid every accident because you think you're such a great driver, you're a fool.

Yes i did read your post but that was your accident not mine. I did not say anywhwre you could have avoided him. I was mearly replying to your "yes your lucky" bit. There is no reason to resort to calling people fools only implise a lack of understanding on your behalf. I said i consider myself a good safe driver ño where was it said Great driver. I have been driving for 50 + years all types of Vehicles but i still consider myself learning and adapting to changing times.

[cardinalblue]

I don't get worked up over accident statistics but they do reinforce what I observe every day here....

 

near misses and bad/illegal driving habits/actions all over the place....

 

i dont think thai people even know what is good driving vs bad....

 

but it when I see tail gating at speed, passing on bridges, solid and double solid lines, driving with parking lights, turning from the center lane, running reds at every signal, not giving right of way to pedestrians and bicyclists, 50% not using they turn indicator, double turning at u-turns, using the emergency lane as another lane just b/c there is traffic, don't know how to merge into traffic, slowing down to practically 0 and turning left w/o moving into emergency lane to make the turn and generally speeding regardless of road conditions (rain, school, market, traffic dogs etc)

 

it all adds up to lack of awareness on how to drive combined with zero enforcement...

 

Just returned from america and drove California for a month..did not see one tail gater and I was looking....

 

the difference is Ca has 2 % bad drivers/behaviors vs I would put at 25-30% here....

 

just mind boggling stuff happens here that one just doesn't see at home....

 

total BS to the responders who say bad drivers everywhere...what matters most is the sheer volume of the incredible errors mistakes illegal behaviors poor decision making one observes every minute on the roads here

 

it's all in the numbers guys....

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

JBeen driving here 15yrs plus never had an accident on the road. Never seen one to tell the truth. Driven in lots of other countries before Thailand, no diffrent in my opinion. Before its asked ive driven the lengh and breath of Thailand.  Lucky who knows a point that can never be proved. Good driving, courteous to other road, users and non aggressive,  coupled with  a good road sense. I belive is my luck.

Strange that you've never seen an accident in over 15 years. I live on a rural (although busy) road in Kalasin province, and in my two years here there have been at least 10 accidents within 300 metres of my house, on a long straight road. People have died, lost limbs and suffered other serious injury. On a bus to Pattaya once I saw two accidents within 30 seconds, on my road and one passing below. So yes, I'm more than surprised you've never seen any. You might be the only person in Thailand who hasn't.

[Lucky mike]

A lack of accountability everywhere, legislators, enforcement, education, road builders/repair, signage, drivers/riders, courts and personal responsibility....big job don't know where you would start.....yak !

[giddyup]

1 hour ago, jeab1980 said:

Yes i did read your post but that was your accident not mine. I did not say anywhwre you could have avoided him. I was mearly replying to your "yes your lucky" bit. There is no reason to resort to calling people fools only implise a lack of understanding on your behalf. I said i consider myself a good safe driver ño where was it said Great driver. I have been driving for 50 + years all types of Vehicles but i still consider myself learning and adapting to changing times.

 You have suggested that your 15 years of driving without an accident has been down to your superior driving skills, no luck involved. Tell me what you would have done in my case to avoid the accident that nearly killed me, besides leaving my car at home and catching a bus..

[rodney earl]

I was always told when I first learnt to drive a long time ago. You have to treat every other person (car motorbike,pedestrian) as a complete and utter idiot and in this country I think it may be more relevant.!!

[jeab1980]

34 minutes ago, giddyup said:

 You have suggested that your 15 years of driving without an accident has been down to your superior driving skills, no luck involved. Tell me what you would have done in my case to avoid the accident that nearly killed me, besides leaving my car at home and catching a bus..

I can not comment on your accident i wasnt there niether would i want to.. I never once implied anything of the sort. Were did i say superior driving skills?you really must avoid making things up about other peoples post to suit your line. Seems you do not read posts correctly i have now twice replied about luck and the fact it has nothing to do with life. I have said in the 15 yrs +, i have not had or seen an accudent. Nothing to do with so called luck.

[jeab1980]

38 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Strange that you've never seen an accident in over 15 years. I live on a rural (although busy) road in Kalasin province, and in my two years here there have been at least 10 accidents within 300 metres of my house, on a long straight road. People have died, lost limbs and suffered other serious injury. On a bus to Pattaya once I saw two accidents within 30 seconds, on my road and one passing below. So yes, I'm more than surprised you've never seen any. You might be the only person in Thailand who hasn't.

I very much doubt im the only person. I have read and seen pictures of accidents of course i have but have never seen a accident in real life. Apart frim in tesco lotus and being rear ended by another shopper.

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, jeab1980 said:

I can not comment on your accident i wasnt there. I never once implied anything of the sort. Were did i say superior driving skills?you really must avoid making things up about other peoples post to suit your line. Seems you do not read posts correctly i have now twice replied about luck and the fact it has nothing to do with life. I have said in the 15 yrs +, i have not had ir seen an accudent. Nothing to do with so called luck.

I hope your luck continues, because I can tell you for a fact that some accidents are impossible to avoid, no matter how safe, courteous, etc you are, or how much road sense you have.

[jeab1980]

7 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I hope your luck continues, because I can tell you for a fact that some accidents are impossible to avoid, no matter how safe, courteous, etc you are, or how much road sense you have.

Again and to close this pointless debate with you as you will not accept others have diffrent views. NO luck involved if i do have an accident it will happen if i dont it wont happen. A  fact is something that can be proven not your opinion now thats a fact.

[giddyup]

Just now, jeab1980 said:

Again and to close this pointless debate with you as you will not accept others have diffrent views. NO luck involved if i do have an accident it will happen if i dont it wont happen. A  fact is something that can be proven not your opinion now thats a fact.

Ostrich syndrome.

[Kwasaki]

6 hours ago, giddyup said:

Yes, if you drive where there are no people, no animals, no motorbikes or cars you're pretty safe.

l think you miss the point and there's no need for you in trying to be clever with me, if you don't understand my perception of what l see here in Thailand, so be it..

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

What a load of nonsense, is the OP not entitled to any opinions without some deluded member of the "if you don't like it go home" brigade making an appearance?

Cobblers I'm entitled to my opinion too his a Thai basher from the western way of a brainwashed mind, get with Thailand's way or go. 

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

What a load of nonsense, is the OP not entitled to any opinions without some deluded member of the "if you don't like it go home" brigade making an appearance?

So you mean everyone has to agree with someone expressing an opinion, especially when it is agenda-driven Thai bashing? .

 

"Thai bad, farang good" brigade makes an appearance no matter what the topic or what opinion is expressed, even if it has nothing to do with Thailand. 

[Suradit69]

The O/P's reference to "an elephant in the room" demonstrates a lack of understanding of what the expression means.

 

The issue of traffic accidents, injuries and deaths is indeed a serious problem (everywhere in the world), but using that expression to describe it implies that no talks about it.  It is endlessly discussed on TV and is a staple in all the news media constantly.

 

Quote

an elephant in the room
informal

If you say there is an elephant in the room, you mean that there is an obvious problem or difficult situation that people do not want to talk about.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/an-elephant-in-the-room

 

Much of what the O/P is saying is just a hyperbolic rant masquerading as facts ( and is an example of another English idiom, "verbal diarrhoea."). 

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

The O/P's reference to "an elephant in the room" demonstrates a lack of understanding of what the expression means.

 

The issue of traffic accidents, injuries and deaths is indeed a serious problem (everywhere in the world), but using that expression to describe it implies that no talks about it.  It is endlessly discussed on TV and is a staple in all the news media constantly.

 

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/an-elephant-in-the-room

 

Much of what the O/P is saying is just a hyperbolic rant masquerading as facts ( and is an example of another English idiom, "verbal diarrhoea."). 

fling me at last someone posting balanced sense.