Israel wants White House to explain U.S. official's Western Wall comment

[webfact]

Israel wants White House to explain U.S. official's Western Wall comment

By Ori Lewis

REUTERS

 

David Friedman, new United States Ambassador to Israel, kisses the Western Wall after arriving in the Jewish state on Monday and immediately paying a visit to the main Jewish holy site, in Jerusalem's Old City May 15, 2017 REUTERS/Ammar Awad

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel wants the White House to explain why a U.S. diplomat preparing President Donald Trump's visit to Jerusalem said Judaism's Holy Western Wall in its Old City is part of the Israeli-occupied West Bank, an Israeli official said on Monday.

 

Israel considers all of Jerusalem as its indivisible capital, a claim that is not recognised internationally, and the Western Wall - the holiest prayer site for Jews - is part of territory it captured in the 1967 Middle East war.

 

Israel's Channel 2 reported that during a planning meeting between U.S. and Israeli officials, the Israelis were told that Trump's visit to the Western Wall was private, Israel did not have jurisdiction in the area and that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was not welcome to accompany Trump there.

 

Trump's administration has been sending mixed messages in its dealings with a right-wing Israeli government that had hoped for a more sympathetic attitude from the Republican president after a rocky relationship with his Democratic predecessor, Barack Obama. 

 

"The statement that the Western Wall is in an area in the West Bank was received with shock," said the official in Netanyahu's office.

 

"We are convinced that this statement is contrary to the policy of President Trump ... Israel has made contact with the U.S. on this matter," the official said.

 

The White House did not respond to a request for comment.

 

The new U.S. ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, departed from diplomatic protocol by visiting the Western Wall on Monday.

 

The visit, a week before Trump's first foreign trip, coincided with a debate between the two countries on Trump's election pledge to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

 

It is highly unusual for a new envoy to visit the holy site just hours after arriving in Israel.

 

Friedman is an orthodox Jew who has raised funds for a Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank that Israel captured together with East Jerusalem 50 years ago.

 

Palestinians want East Jerusalem as the capital of a future state along with the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip that is controlled by Islamist Hamas.

 

A bankruptcy lawyer by profession, Friedman has no previous diplomatic experience. He will officially take up his role when he presents his credentials to Israeli President Reuven Rivlin on Tuesday.

 

On Sunday, U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said Trump was considering the best move to facilitate renewing Israeli-Palestinian peace talks that have been frozen since 2014, hinting he might not make good on his election campaign promise.

 

"The president is being very careful to understand how such a decision would impact a peace process," Tillerson told NBC's "Meet the Press".

 

Netanyahu responded by saying that moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem would not harm the peace process, but would do the opposite.

 

"It will advance it by righting a historical wrong and by shattering the Palestinian fantasy that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel," Netanyahu said.

 

Trump will embark on his first international trip since taking office on Friday and begin with visits to Saudi Arabia, Israel and the West Bank and Italy.

 

He will try to relaunch the peace process although the prospects for progress are unclear as both sides are entrenched in long-held positions.

 

Among the main bones of contention are Netanyahu insisting that the Palestinians recognise Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people and the Palestinians calling for a halt to Israeli settlement building in the West Bank.

 

(Editing by Louise Ireland)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-16

[ezzra]

Denying the western wall, also known as he wailing wall, as having very strong lineage and connection to the Jewish/Israeli people history of the biblical land of Israel, risks alienating and straining relations between Israel and the US +The western  wall is the most sacred worship place for all Jews, much like Mecca, and questioning it's legitimacy to the Jewish

nation will not be met with a kind response......

 

[ilostmypassword]

xN

59 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Denying the western wall, also known as he wailing wall, as having very strong lineage and connection to the Jewish/Israeli people history of the biblical land of Israel, risks alienating and straining relations between Israel and the US +The western  wall is the most sacred worship place for all Jews, much like Mecca, and questioning it's legitimacy to the Jewish

nation will not be met with a kind response......

 

No one denied the significance of the wailing wall to Jews.  They simply denied that Israel had a legitimate claim to authority over it.  Israel is not Judaism, Judaism is not Israel.

[wwest5829]

Please do keep in mind that Jerusalem is sacred to all the, "People of the Book" (being the three major religions sharing claim to a common heritage in the Old Testament. Jerusalem is equally "holy" to Judaism, Christianity and Islam (in the order of their founding).

[Morch]

The full report quoted mentioned that there was a heated exchange between Israeli and US officials preparing the arrangements for Trump's visit. Trump's team opting to make the occasion all about Trump, while Netanyahu's people trying to score some PR points for their boss.

 

If I understand correctly, Trump's decision to visit the Western Wall was a "make it so" thing, without a whole lot of initial consultation about legalities and whatnot. Since the US (and international) position does not recognize Israeli sovereignty over East Jerusalem (and hence, the location of the Western Wall), US heads of state and senior officials usually avoid state visits to the site. The Trump team sought to bypass this issue by making Trump's visit a "private" one, meaning less (or none) live coverage, and barring Israeli official participation. The statement was aired in the context of said argument.

 

By itself, it does not represent a departure from US policy. Normally, both sides make an effort to head off such issues before they crop up, obviously harder to do with Trump's style of doing things.

 

Storm in a teacup, this one.

[Credo]

The man does seem to cause a lot of controversy when it comes to anything have to do Walls.   

[jerojero]

Note to Israel... Don't expect a common sense or consistent answer from the Donald. Today it may be X and tomorrow changed to Y. Good luck with getting Z which may be the truth.

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Trump's administration has been sending mixed messages in its dealings with a right-wing Israeli government that had hoped for a more sympathetic attitude from the Republican president after a rocky relationship with his Democratic predecessor, Barack Obama. 

While Obama wasn't very sympathetic, he was consistent and diplomatic. Israel needs to lower its expectations of professionalism with Trump.

8 hours ago, webfact said:

Netanyahu responded by saying that moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem would not harm the peace process, but would do the opposite.

 

"It will advance it by righting a historical wrong and by shattering the Palestinian fantasy that Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel,"

"Shattering the Palestinian fantasy" certainly is not conducive to the peace process. Better to milk the fantasy and find common ground with reality. But the bottom line is that Netanyahu cares little of any negotiated peace that gives the Palestinians any rights of state.

[sanemax]

5 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Jerusalem is equally "holy" to Judaism, Christianity and Islam (in the order of their founding).

It isnt . 

Jerusalem is quite insignificant to Islam , Mecca and Medina are Islams Religiously important places, whilst the Western Wall is Judaisms important place . 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

While Obama wasn't very sympathetic, he was consistent and diplomatic. Israel needs to lower its expectations of professionalism with Trump.

"Shattering the Palestinian fantasy" certainly is not conducive to the peace process. Better to milk the fantasy and find common ground with reality. But the bottom line is that Netanyahu cares little of any negotiated peace that gives the Palestinians any rights of state.

While Obama wasn't very sympathetic, he was consistent and diplomatic.

No, he wasn't. He started well, by refusing to give Netanyahu a state welcome the first time he visited the US, but then he lost his bottle and reverted to Israel all good US default position.

Flip flop, yes?

Whatever, he did not advance peace there one iota.

[Jingthing]

Sounds like yet another trump regime COMMUNICATION mess up. I wouldn't take it any more seriously than trump's selling the absurd idea that his totally unqualified son-in-law is going to solve the Israel-Palestinian conflict. Word is he sees it all as another real estate deal. Nice try, bizarre clown president. 

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It isnt . 

Jerusalem is quite insignificant to Islam , Mecca and Medina are Islams Religiously important places, whilst the Western Wall is Judaisms important place . 

WHAT!!!!!!!

The rock is where Muhammed is said to have ascended to heaven, and is one of the holiest Muslim sites.

When Muhammed was starting the religion, he decreed they should pray in the direction of Jerusalem, but after Jews massacred Muslims he changed it to Mecca.

[wwest5829]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

It isnt . 

Jerusalem is quite insignificant to Islam , Mecca and Medina are Islams Religiously important places, whilst the Western Wall is Judaisms important place . 

You are splitting hairs. Jerusalem is holy to all 3 religions. More than? Less than? Why do you think the city has been the center of so much fighting in the name of each of the 3 religions. My reading of history supports that all 3 equally hold the city as sacred.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

WHAT!!!!!!!

The rock is where Muhammed is said to have ascended to heaven, and is one of the holiest Muslim sites.

When Muhammed was starting the religion, he decreed they should pray in the direction of Jerusalem, but after Jews massacred Muslims he changed it to Mecca.

Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the Koran

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

You are splitting hairs. Jerusalem is holy to all 3 religions. More than? Less than? Why do you think the city has been the center of so much fighting in the name of each of the 3 religions. My reading of history supports that all 3 equally hold the city as sacred.

No , Jews hold Jerusalem in the same regard that Muslims hold Mecca .

Medina comes second in Islam, regards important places . 

   Jerusalem comes a lowly third to Muslims , whilst its first to Jews

[Jingthing]

I'm OK with accepting the importance of Jerusalem to the three major Abrahamic religions. But clearly Mecca is more important to Islam than Jerusalem, and Jerusalem is more important to Judaism than ... Brooklyn. 

 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Jingthing

[Morch]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

WHAT!!!!!!!

The rock is where Muhammed is said to have ascended to heaven, and is one of the holiest Muslim sites.

When Muhammed was starting the religion, he decreed they should pray in the direction of Jerusalem, but after Jews massacred Muslims he changed it to Mecca.

 

"....but after Jews massacred Muslims he changed it to Mecca."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla#History

 

[onthesoi]

Sounds like another land grab being sold as divine right.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

No , Jews hold Jerusalem in the same regard that Muslims hold Mecca .

Medina comes second in Islam, regards important places . 

   Jerusalem comes a lowly third to Muslims , whilst its first to Jews

3rd is irrelevant. It is a holy Muslim site, PERIOD.

The only legality Israel has to the land it started on was set out in the UN charter. Jerusalem was designated as an international city, given it's significance to all 3 religions. Israel may occupy it, but it has no legal right to it, only the might of the gun.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

"....but after Jews massacred Muslims he changed it to Mecca."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qibla#History

 

Thanks for posting that.

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for posting that.

Did you read the post and realise that the web page link  disproved the post about Jewish violence towards Muslims being the cause of Muslims facing Mecca and not Jerusalem ?

 

 

"Muhammad was leading the prayer when he received revelations from God instructing him to take the Kaaba as the Qiblah (literally, "Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque:").^[3][4] According to the traditional accounts contained in the hadith and sira, Muhammad, who had been facing Jerusalem, upon receiving this revelation, immediately turned around to face Mecca, and those praying behind him also did so."

Edited May 16, 2017 by sanemax

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Did you read the post and realise that the web page link  disproved the post about Jewish violence towards Muslims being the cause of Muslims facing Mecca and not Jerusalem ?

 

 

"Muhammad was leading the prayer when he received revelations from God instructing him to take the Kaaba as the Qiblah (literally, "Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque:").^[3][4] According to the traditional accounts contained in the hadith and sira, Muhammad, who had been facing Jerusalem, upon receiving this revelation, immediately turned around to face Mecca, and those praying behind him also did so."

Not only that. There were a bunch of other explanations given and none of them mentioned anything about the Jews slaughtering Muslims.

[Naam]

10 hours ago, ezzra said:

Denying the western wall, also known as he wailing wall, as having very strong lineage and connection to the Jewish/Israeli people history of the biblical land of Israel, risks alienating and straining relations between Israel and the US +The western  wall is the most sacred worship place for all Jews, much like Mecca, and questioning it's legitimacy to the Jewish

nation will not be met with a kind response......

 

the U.S. diplomat did not question any legitimacy nor did he deny that this wall is a most sacred place. he stated a well known fact which is "...occupied part of the West Bank".

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thanks for posting that.

 

Glad to assist dispelling the usual nonsense.

[Morch]

35 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

3rd is irrelevant. It is a holy Muslim site, PERIOD.

The only legality Israel has to the land it started on was set out in the UN charter. Jerusalem was designated as an international city, given it's significance to all 3 religions. Israel may occupy it, but it has no legal right to it, only the might of the gun.

 

Following the logic of your learned argument, the Palestinians do not have any rights in Jerusalem as well. Not sure if that's an acceptable position as far as they go, or if that's part of the point you were trying to establish. Worth mentioning that there were less objections aired when during Jordan's occupation of the same, during which access to certain religious sites was barred.

 

Most of the current formulations refer to the 1967 lines, hence de-facto ignoring the suggested status of Jerusalem under the 1947 partition plan. It is pretty much recognized that parts of Jerusalem not beyond those lines belong to Israel, while the problems relate more to the Eastern part of the city and its surroundings. Claiming "no legal right" is a reactionary position.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/16/2017 at 5:23 PM, sanemax said:

Did you read the post and realise that the web page link  disproved the post about Jewish violence towards Muslims being the cause of Muslims facing Mecca and not Jerusalem ?

 

 

"Muhammad was leading the prayer when he received revelations from God instructing him to take the Kaaba as the Qiblah (literally, "Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque:").^[3][4] According to the traditional accounts contained in the hadith and sira, Muhammad, who had been facing Jerusalem, upon receiving this revelation, immediately turned around to face Mecca, and those praying behind him also did so."

Hmmmm. You believe that God spoke to Mohammed?

If that is so, then God also told him to stone adulterers and kill homosexuals and apostates. So much for the religion of peace.

I believe that happened as much as I believe a burning bush gave Moses the 10 commandments.

Given that the Koran was not written by Mohammed, and none of us were around then, it's as likely that it was due to the Jews killing Muslims as it is for any of the other  reasons given.

 

BTW, the hadiths were written by the religious leaders and not dictated by Mohammed, so I put as much faith in them as I do in the teachings of Paul, the Roman stooge sent to convert Christians to a Roman approved version of Christianity.

He wasn't fond of homosexuals either- what is it with those religious people?

Edited May 18, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[Naam]

8 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that is so, then God also told him to stone adulterers and kill homosexuals and apostates. So much for the religion of peace.

let's be fair! the "religion of peace" adopted ("copied and pasted" ) this as well as hundreds of other "commandments" from the Bible.

[mrwebb8825]

I wonder what both sides would think about making Jerusalem a sort of Neutral Zone or Safe Zone with no Israeli OR Palestinian soldiers allowed. Move the US embassy there with a dividing wall (inside the new embassy building, not through the whole city) so 1 side deals with Israel and the other side deals with Palestine. Install a U.N. Peacekeeping force to patrol the city. Israelis on the east and Palestinians on the west, the new US embassy AND a new U.N. Headquarters right in the middle.

Set up its own court system and security system similar to the Vatican. Aggression by either side would come with reprisals from the U.N. and not any 1 country to downplay bias of action. Afterall, isn't that what the U.N. was created for in the 1st place? :)

[ddavidovsky]

I'll explain it for them: it's not theirs, just because they say it is.

 

The wrangling will go on for centuries, millennia. And even after Israel has stealthily neutralised the Palestinian population and moved bag and baggage onto their land - which is clearly their long-term aim - the invasion will live in infamy for all eternity and Israel will forever be surrounded by people who resent its very existence. Personally I don't think I could live like that, but evidently they just don't care.

[ilostmypassword]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmm. You believe that God spoke to Mohammed?

If that is so, then God also told him to stone adulterers and kill homosexuals and apostates. So much for the religion of peace.

I believe that happened as much as I believe a burning bush gave Moses the 10 commandments.

Given that the Koran was not written by Mohammed, and none of us were around then, it's as likely that it was due to the Jews killing Muslims as it is for any of the other  reasons given.

 

BTW, the hadiths were written by the religious leaders and not dictated by Mohammed, so I put as much faith in them as I do in the teachings of Paul, the Roman stooge sent to convert Christians to a Roman approved version of Christianity.

He wasn't fond of homosexuals either- what is it with those religious people?

Well, the same criticism can be applied to the Jewish bible which calls for capital punishments for all sorts of things we would regard as minor infractions. And I believe Leviticus says when you sell your daughters into slavery it's for life.

 

And Paul was a stooge for the Romans? And to show their gratitude for his fine work they executed him?

 

As for your comment about Jews killing Muslims as the reason for Mecca replacing Jerusalem,  you can make anything up and it's just as likely to be true as existing historical evidence?  You have learned well from the master: Donald Trump..

 

And your comment about the hadiths is just ridiculous.