Trump revealed intelligence secrets to Russians in Oval Office - officials

[iReason]

11 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Show me the tweet.

Not hard to find.

 

Your internet working ok?

 

 

President Trump Defends Sharing 'Facts' With Russian Officials

http://time.com/4780312/president-trump-russian-leak-tweet/

[TonyClifton]

Fantastic Tweet.  Which part of it states he shared classified or sensitive data?

 

I'll wait.

[Traveler19491]

20 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

 

Show me the tweet.

 

 

Donald J. Trump 

 

✔@realDonaldTrump

As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....

Donald J. Trump 

 

✔@realDonaldTrump

...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.

6:13 PM - 16 May 2017

 

While not specifically stating that the information that he shared was classified, the statement, "...which I have the absolute right to do," is a clear effort to defuse objections to his revealing classified intelligence, something he admittedly has the power to do, otherwise there was no reason to include that qualifier. Additionally, numerous intelligence officials have already confirmed that the information Trump revealed was classified (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.786e2d7f56f0). Even current Israeli intelligence officials have confirmed that he screwed up (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/229750). Your refusal to admit that this is a reality is simply confirmation of your position as a willing sycophant, refusing to entertain any information that does not exalt your dear Supreme Leader. Sorry, but your incessant apologies for the orange clown grow wearisome.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Traveler19491

[TonyClifton]

4 minutes ago, Traveler19491 said:

Donald J. Trump 

 

✔@realDonaldTrump

As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining....

Donald J. Trump 

 

✔@realDonaldTrump

...to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism.

6:13 PM - 16 May 2017

 

While not specifically stating that the information that he shared was classified

 

You may stop there.  Are you all magicians? Is this verbal slight of hand? President Donald Trump admits to nothing more than sharing with Russia.  He also says he has an absolute right to do this. 

 

What did he share?

 

How is sharing = revealing sensitive or classified data?

 

Now that we have seen your hand, I would suggest hanging your magician's hat elsewhere as you have failed to prove anything.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

 

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kyle-drennen/2017/05/16/guests-remind-nbc-cnn-obama-gave-classified-intel-russia

 

"While NBC and CNN joined the rest of the media in rushing to condemn the Trump White House over an unconfirmed Washington Post report that the President inadvertently shared classified information with Russian officials, guests on both networks provided important context that the Obama administration intentionally shared classified intelligence with Russia less than a year ago.

 

Appearing on Friday’s NBC Today, security analyst Juan Zarate warned: “The problem is the Russians aren’t trustworthy. The Russians have proven that when we’ve provided information in the past, they’ve used it against us.” He then proceeded to explain how former President Obama gave the Russians classified information just months "

As many Trumpies on this thread have pointed out (I think you are one of them) the President can reveal classified any time he wants to.  So both are in the clear regarding US law. 

 

However Obama shared US intelligence. That's bad, but we can be confidant that US intelligence agencies will continue to work for the US.

 

Trump shared intelligence provided by an ally without that ally's permission, endangering an intelligence sharing agreement in a part of the world where reliable human intelligence is difficult to come by.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

That depends on your ability to reason.  Logic & reason are normally used by thinkers.  A thinking man might infer from this article the hypocrisy of the left and media, which are one and the same.

 

Take a deep breath.  Clear your mind.  Think. Now refute what I just wrote.

Are you referring to the Washington Post article?  What is hypocritical about an investigative journalist reporting information from White House sources, information that was then confirmed by the President.

 

Why do you believe the left and the media are the same?  Do you agree with Stephen Colbert's statement "facts have a liberal bias"?  You do realize he is a comedian and was joking, don't you?

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, TonyClifton said:

I am a constitutionalist, a libertarian with a small l, and a logical thinker.  I am not baited nor put off by the antics of the left.  As I wrote, nice try but no cigar.

 

Oh, if you are Monica Lewinsky by yourself in the Oval Office with President Clinton, you get the cigar.

"I am a constitutionalist"

 

I assume you believe in separation of powers.  How do you feel about Trump's attacks on the judiciary for rejection the travel ban?

 

" a libertarian with a small l"

 

How do you feel about Trump's opposition to abortion, stopping US aid to organizations that provide family planning information overseas, and promotion of religion in government?

 

"and a logical thinker."

 

Yeah, you're need to provide some evidence of that.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, JHolmesJr said:

Oh my god……gasp…are you saying that israel has spies within ISIS…..holy C$#@!!!!

You don't see anything wrong with Trump revealing the cities the spy was working in, and the information he gathered? 

 

Knowing this would probably restrict the list of possible spies to only a handful of people.  Very useful for ISIS, if Russia chooses to share it with them.  Russia is treacherous enough to maybe share this information with the understanding that ISIS not use any laptop bombs against Russian targets.

 

There remains the problem of the information not being Trump's to share.  Trumpies are avoiding that issue.

[attrayant]

10 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

What did he share?

 

Sorry, but that's classified.

 

Quote

How is sharing = revealing sensitive or classified data?

 

From Wapo:

 

Quote

 

The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.

 

The partner had not given the United States permission to share the material with Russia, and officials said Trump’s decision to do so endangers cooperation from an ally that has access to the inner workings of the Islamic State. After Trump’s meeting, senior White House officials took steps to contain the damage, placing calls to the CIA and the National Security Agency.

 

“This is code-word information,” said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump “revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.”

 

 

Also, administration bots are all over the news today begging the media not to reveal the source of the information because it's - wait for it - sensitive.

Edited May 17, 2017 by attrayant
added wapo cite

[TonyClifton]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"I am a constitutionalist"

 

I assume you believe in separation of powers.  How do you feel about Trump's attacks on the judiciary for rejection the travel ban?

 

" a libertarian with a small l"

 

How do you feel about Trump's opposition to abortion, stopping US aid to organizations that provide family planning information overseas, and promotion of religion in government?

 

"and a logical thinker."

 

Yeah, you're need to provide some evidence of that.

 

 

 

 

https://youtu.be/U80ebi4AKgs

 

even better >>>>>>>>>> 

 

 

This sums up the liberal argument nicely.  They show you a very big bun, but when you reveal the bun for what is, you are left with the vexing question: Where's the Beef?

 

How is Trump making his thoughts known about the Judiciary tantamount to violating the separation of powers?

 

As a libertarian, I too oppose abortion.  The government has a duty to make sure that abortions do not happen.

Edited May 17, 2017 by TonyClifton

[Guest]

Apparently there is defence for the president of USA actions. He is too ignorant. :)

 

"Donald Trump 'does not know enough about intelligence to leak anything damaging', US officials say in his defence ind.pn/2pJ9p4P"

 

 

[TonyClifton]

I am still waiting for any of you Social Justice Warriors to show me how President Donald Trump's tweet is tantamount to a confession of giving away state secrets.

 

Where's the BEEF? 

 

 

[JHolmesJr]

41 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You don't see anything wrong with Trump revealing the cities the spy was working in, and the information he gathered? 

 

Knowing this would probably restrict the list of possible spies to only a handful of people.  Very useful for ISIS, if Russia chooses to share it with them.  Russia is treacherous enough to maybe share this information with the understanding that ISIS not use any laptop bombs against Russian targets.

 

There remains the problem of the information not being Trump's to share.  Trumpies are avoiding that issue.

 

Gee…really?

 

Were you in the room? You know exactly what city Trump mentioned and all the detailed facts he allegedly leaked?

 

Could Trump have mentioned another city just to throw the russkies off scent? 

 

Guess not since you seem to have a wiretap that feeds you all the conversations there.

 

Could Israel withhold future co-operation, knowing full well that such things are usually reciprocal?

 

I don't know..do enlighten us.

[heybruce]

24 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

https://youtu.be/U80ebi4AKgs

 

even better >>>>>>>>>> 

 

 

This sums up the liberal argument nicely.  They show you a very big bun, but when you reveal the bun for what is, you are left with the vexing question: Where's the Beef?

 

How is Trump making his thoughts known about the Judiciary tantamount to violating the separation of powers?

 

As a libertarian, I too oppose abortion.  The government has a duty to make sure that abortions do not happen.

Trump questioning the legitimacy of judges shows he has not respect for separation of powers.  He also doesn't have much respect for the legislative branch:

 

"You look at the rules of the Senate, even the rules of the House, bit the rule of the Senate and some of the things you have to go through, it's really a bad thing for the country in my opinion.

There are archaic rules and maybe at some point, we're going to have to take those rules on because for the good of the nation things are going to have to be different. You can't go through a process like this."   http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2017/04/28/president-trump-reflects-on-his-first-100-days.html

 

You also ignored his promotion of religion in government by allowing tax exempt churches to become more involved in politics. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-religion-idUSKBN18025T  

 

Finally, I think a libertarian who opposes a woman's right to choose, and supports politicians who impede family planning which reduces unplanned pregnancy, is a hypocrite.

 

I see little logic in your views.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, iReason said:

Trump's intelligence slip-up may be the straw that breaks the camel's back

 

"On strategy and tactics, most Republican members of Congress will likely give the President a wide berth, but on mistakes or issues that don't appear to be based on some bigger strategy, I think those same members of Congress will begin to speak out," said one senior Republican House member granted anonymity to speak candidly. "The sharing of classified information to the Russians clearly falls into the second bucket."

 

"There is a honeymoon period, but on issues like this, if the honeymoon isn't over yet, it will be soon."

 

"The question for Republicans is whether this is the straw that breaks the camel's back," said the source. "Forty percent approval is not the issue; an erratic, rudderless, leaderless White House is."

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/15/politics/trump-russia-lavrov/index.html

Perhaps there is a lot of clutching at straws going on, LOL.

 

When even Nancy Pelosi tries to rein in the liberal hysteria, one knows there is no there there.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pelosi-pushes-back-on-impeachment-calls-without-facts-its-hearsay/article/2623179

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Gee…really?

 

Were you in the room? You know exactly what city Trump mentioned and all the detailed facts he allegedly leaked?

 

Could Trump have mentioned another city just to throw the russkies off scent? 

 

Guess not since you seem to have a wiretap that feeds you all the conversations there.

 

Could Israel withhold future co-operation, knowing full well that such things are usually reciprocal?

 

I don't know..do enlighten us.

" Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat."

 

" Senior White House officials appeared to recognize quickly that Trump had overstepped and moved to contain the potential fallout. Thomas P. Bossert, assistant to the president for homeland security and counterterrorism, placed calls to the directors of the CIA and the NSA, the services most directly involved in the intelligence-sharing arrangement with the partner. " https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.4279b45d2f8e   

 

The above should cover most of your questions.   Do you ever read the original source for these threads?

 

Regarding:

 

"Could Israel withhold future co-operation, knowing full well that such things are usually reciprocal?"

 

Yes, of course they could.  In fact, they will probably restrict the information they share with the US because of this breach of existing security agreements.

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, heybruce said:

" Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat."

 

" Senior White House officials appeared to recognize quickly that Trump had overstepped and moved to contain the potential fallout. Thomas P. Bossert, assistant to the president for homeland security and counterterrorism, placed calls to the directors of the CIA and the NSA, the services most directly involved in the intelligence-sharing arrangement with the partner. " https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.4279b45d2f8e   

 

The above should cover most of your questions.   Do you ever read the original source for these threads?

 

Regarding:

 

"Could Israel withhold future co-operation, knowing full well that such things are usually reciprocal?"

 

Yes, of course they could.  In fact, they will probably restrict the information they share with the US because of this breach of existing security agreements.

 

Do you ever read the original source for these threads?

I read the OP. The original source was

two U.S. officials with knowledge of the situation said on Monday.

 

If you want to believe in un named sources, go right ahead. I don't. If they come out and say it in public I would change my mind.

If the situation is so serious, surely they would be prepared to be penalised in service of the country?

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, heybruce said:

" Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat."

 

" Senior White House officials appeared to recognize quickly that Trump had overstepped and moved to contain the potential fallout. Thomas P. Bossert, assistant to the president for homeland security and counterterrorism, placed calls to the directors of the CIA and the NSA, the services most directly involved in the intelligence-sharing arrangement with the partner. " https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.4279b45d2f8e   

 

The above should cover most of your questions.   Do you ever read the original source for these threads?

 

Regarding:

 

"Could Israel withhold future co-operation, knowing full well that such things are usually reciprocal?"

 

Yes, of course they could.  In fact, they will probably restrict the information they share with the US because of this breach of existing security agreements.

Bring it on. Then the US could with hold funds to Israel- good outcome.

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, heybruce said:

" Trump went on to discuss aspects of the threat that the United States learned only through the espionage capabilities of a key partner. He did not reveal the specific intelligence-gathering method, but he described how the Islamic State was pursuing elements of a specific plot and how much harm such an attack could cause under varying circumstances. Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat."

 

" Senior White House officials appeared to recognize quickly that Trump had overstepped and moved to contain the potential fallout. Thomas P. Bossert, assistant to the president for homeland security and counterterrorism, placed calls to the directors of the CIA and the NSA, the services most directly involved in the intelligence-sharing arrangement with the partner. " https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.4279b45d2f8e   

 

The above should cover most of your questions.   Do you ever read the original source for these threads?

 

Regarding:

 

"Could Israel withhold future co-operation, knowing full well that such things are usually reciprocal?"

 

Yes, of course they could.  In fact, they will probably restrict the information they share with the US because of this breach of existing security agreements.

 

 

Quote

In a statement emailed to The New York Times, Ron Dermer, the Israeli ambassador to the United States, reaffirmed that the two countries would maintain a close counterterrorism relationship.

 

“Israel has full confidence in our intelligence-sharing relationship with the United States and looks forward to deepening that relationship in the years ahead under President Trump,” Mr. Dermer said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html

 

[heybruce]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Bring it on. Then the US could with hold funds to Israel- good outcome.

You think Israel will tell the US it is withholding intelligence information?  I think they're smart enough not to play a game of "I know something you don't know".

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/world/middleeast/israel-trump-classified-intelligence-russia.html

 

That would be their official statement, wouldn't it?

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Do you ever read the original source for these threads?

I read the OP. The original source was

two U.S. officials with knowledge of the situation said on Monday.

 

If you want to believe in un named sources, go right ahead. I don't. If they come out and say it in public I would change my mind.

If the situation is so serious, surely they would be prepared to be penalised in service of the country?

I see.  Do you believe Watergate was fake news because the source Deep Throat was not revealed until decades after the fact?

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

That would be their official statement, wouldn't it?

 

I've commented on this both on this topic and another. Posters who imagine immediate far-reaching or drastic responses from foreign countries and their respective intelligence services are off mark. For one thing, these sort of things happen (without condoning or defending Trump), and there are usually quiet diplomatic ways of sorting issues. Publicly, it is indeed in everyone's best interest to keep things civil.

 

There was another article, linked on a parallel topic, which suggested that foreign intelligence services may opt to limit some of the information flow in political channels, but unlikely this will impact military/security cooperation to a significant degree. The various US intelligence agencies maintain cooperation with a whole lot of counterparts, not feasible to "cut the cord" (as it was put), nor does the information flow one way.

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, attrayant said:

Trump apologists will say something like, "You see!  Trump didn't describe his crime in detail."  .....as if a criminal is only guilty when he articulates exactly how he broke the law.

 

 

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Trump apologists will say something like, "You see!  Trump didn't describe his crime in detail."  .....as if a criminal is only guilty when he articulates exactly how he broke the law.

 

 

trump had it right in the campaign when he said his supporters would be totally OK with him just shooting random people on the streets. So what true believer trumpists say now to defend the clown president is irrelevant. 
Get real now. He ran on health care for all and now he supports paying for massive tax cuts for the richest by kicking off the poorest and sickest from health care, and most trumpists are STILL on board and still defending trump. Basically the legislative equivalent of shooting people on the streets. For trumpists it's a cult of personality thing like many authoritarian movements in history that usually end with blood in the streets.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Jingthing

[rice555]

3 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

Trump apologists will say something like, "You see!  Trump didn't describe his crime in detail."  .....as if a criminal is only guilty when he articulates exactly how he broke the law.

 

 

Can the prez not, declassify anything he wants since he is head of

governemt?

rice555

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, rice555 said:

Can the prez not, declassify anything he wants since he is head of

governemt?

rice555

He can legally. That isn't the issue here. 

[heybruce]

23 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I've commented on this both on this topic and another. Posters who imagine immediate far-reaching or drastic responses from foreign countries and their respective intelligence services are off mark. For one thing, these sort of things happen (without condoning or defending Trump), and there are usually quiet diplomatic ways of sorting issues. Publicly, it is indeed in everyone's best interest to keep things civil.

 

There was another article, linked on a parallel topic, which suggested that foreign intelligence services may opt to limit some of the information flow in political channels, but unlikely this will impact military/security cooperation to a significant degree. The various US intelligence agencies maintain cooperation with a whole lot of counterparts, not feasible to "cut the cord" (as it was put), nor does the information flow one way.

I don't think intelligence sharing with allies will end, but this is the sort of thing that puts a strain on it.  One can only speculate on how our allies will respond, but I'm sure there will be a response.

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, rice555 said:

Can the prez not, declassify anything he wants since he is head of

governemt?

rice555

 

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He can legally. That isn't the issue here. 

Good luck getting the Trumpies to acknowledge that.  It's one of the few straws they have left to grasp.

[Skywalker69]

NY Times Just Revealed Which Ally Trump Compromised By Sharing Intel With Russia

 

The sensitive security information about a mole in the inner circle of Daesh (ISIS/ISIL) that President Trump inappropriately shared with the Russian foreign minister and the ambassador has the potential to severely damage one of the U.S.’s most important intelligence-gathering relationships.

 

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/05/16/ny-times-just-revealed-ally-trump-compromised-sharing-intel-russia/