Spray on heat insulation under roof tiles - good or...

[rickudon]

I live in an old village house, used to have the corrugated iron sheet roof. During the day (certainly by afternoon) upstairs were unbearable, although at least used to cool down quickly after sunset. Had ceilings, also had kitchen with open space (no ceiling, could see the iron sheets), that was also unbearable. We replaced it all with modern metal sheeting with the glued on polystyrene/aluminium foil underneath. The change was dramatic. Heat was a lot less, still did get hot, but bearable. Also in winter not as cold. The roof is well ventilated.

 

Heat in the rooms does slowly build up but not an issue until middle of afternoon. The ceiling isn't insulated but i am sure doing this would help, but this would be limited as windows/walls allow too much heat in. Updating the house is still a work in progress. I am happy with the roof insulation, but would do the ceiling as well, at least for my room! Any future walls will be using the insulated block to cut down heat, plus of course, more care with shade for the walls. The insulated metal sheeting is cheaper than tiles, but can still look good.

[jacko45k]

Mine was done a few years ago and the results were good... although I had to sort out some electrical problems they created.

Not only insulation from heat and sound, it can eliminate leaks in heavy rain too. It is also a security improvement, the roof tiles can no longer be pushed back for a person to gain access. Obviously if you have any future wiring or cable installations it is a hindrance.

Hard to make comparisons but it worked better than putting those insulating tiles on the upper side of the false ceiling tiles.

[catman20]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Mine was done a few years ago and the results were good... although I had to sort out some electrical problems they created.

Not only insulation from heat and sound, it can eliminate leaks in heavy rain too. It is also a security improvement, the roof tiles can no longer be pushed back for a person to gain access. Obviously if you have any future wiring or cable installations it is a hindrance.

Hard to make comparisons but it worked better than putting those insulating tiles on the upper side of the false ceiling tiles.

 

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Mine was done a few years ago and the results were good... although I had to sort out some electrical problems they created.

Not only insulation from heat and sound, it can eliminate leaks in heavy rain too. It is also a security improvement, the roof tiles can no longer be pushed back for a person to gain access. Obviously if you have any future wiring or cable installations it is a hindrance.

Hard to make comparisons but it worked better than putting those insulating tiles on the upper side of the false ceiling tiles.

i was told the same about helped stopped roof leaks, NOT TRUE it made it harder to find the leak when my roof started to leak and it still leaks now, i just put buckets in the roof to catch the rain water.

Edited May 16, 2017 by catman20

[jacko45k]

1 minute ago, catman20 said:

 

i was told the same about helped stopped roof leaks, NOT TRUE it made it harder to find the leak when my roof started to leak and it still leaks i just put buckets in the roof to catch the rain water.

It eliminated mine, but I expect it may not work in all circumstances. It would surely make them harder to find.

[pizzachang]

We used fiberglass roll, 12 inches thick and definitely got lower temperatures inside the house, Without a vent fan, however, heat will build up between the tiles and insulation. The spinning turban convection types need careful attention to the bearings - they wear out because of dust, etc. and start squeaking at 3 am.  A electric fan, switched on in the afternoons or a thermostatically controlled one should vent a lot of heat build up. 

[ksamuiguy]

Works great, glues the tiles in place, covers the beams and prevents mold and rusting, seals leaks especially in older tile roofs.

There are several professional companies here in Thailand doing this work, we have had it done on new builds as well as older houses. We have never experienced a failure  (in their materials or workmanship) especially good during heavy rains with strong winds, keep water out due to tile overlap or misalignment.

One completed properly you can for get roof problems for a long, long time. Works great on multiple level roof here in "The Kingdom" which no one can seem to get right!

 

 

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, sandrabbit said:

Sorry wrong, I used to work on maintenance manufacturing Rockwool in the UK. Fibreglass is not fireproof, if I remember correctly Rockwool slab is certified to withstand 800degC for 30 minutes and is an insurance requirement now in UK supermarket roofs as a few Sainsburies went up in flames after fires starting and spreading through the roof void. It even has better insulation properties than fibreglass and is not affected by moisture, I can tell you that's true from lying in line offcuts in the rain outside when a conveyor broke down. It is expensive and that's because it really is stone spun like candyfloss.

I would agree, Rockwool is a far superior product compared to fibreglass. I designed industrial ovens for about 10 years and used Rockwool in mat and loose fibre formats. The loose fibres were used in high temp ovens up to 600 degree C and you couldn't possibly use fibreglass in such an application.

The lower temp ovens used the mat Rockwool which came from the factory in Scotland. Sometimes there was supply problems and we were forced into using fibreglass as an alternative. Any oven that came back for repair that had had the fibreglass used invariably had to have the insulation replaced as lumps of glass had formed in the area adjacent to the heaters, never a problem with Rockwool.

[lucjoker]

22 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Good to know, can you please clarify what you mean by 'spinners'. Thanks.

turning bowl (with slits) on your roof will suck hot air out

[Foozool]

21 hours ago, recycler said:

Had it done almost 5 years ago and it lowers the temperature on the top floor considerable and prevents leaking, would do it again.

Is it mold resistant as well ?

[Sparkles]

3 hours ago, lucjoker said:

turning bowl (with slits) on your roof will suck hot air out

Well I know it as a "whirly bird" extractor.Sure it helps but its minimal as are vents under eaves.

I am saying this living in a 20 years old brick 2 bedroom ,single story house with a single layer of bricks,no cavity wall .cement rendered inside.

 

Big mistake to buy the house ....the bricks heat up even though they are not exposed to direct sunlight ,its more like a pizza oven principle.

 

Yes I could spend a lot of ,money with insulation in the ceiling (we have brown tiles which suck in the heat) and I could put a sprinkler on the roof ,quite common in Australia for bush fire reasons but I doubt it would make great difference. Only other option is mister jets to cool the walls.

 

With temps expected to continue to rise ,its probaly easier to spend the money on using the air con more often.

 

To close I enquired re insulation being sprayed under our roof in Bangkok 10 years ago.The company refused to give me the  name and phone no of someone who had the service done so I smelt a rat.As it turned out that was one of my better decisons

[Naam]

On 5/16/2017 at 1:06 PM, boriga said:

Had a dramatic improvement in reducing heat gain in the house, maybe 5°C or more

best fairy tale i heard in 12 years TV threads pertaining to insulation.

[Chivas]

38 minutes ago, Naam said:

best fairy tale i heard in 12 years TV threads pertaining to insulation.

similar to a finance "expert" not knowing what Cable was............

[lucjoker]

2 hours ago, Sparkles said:

Well I know it as a "whirly bird" extractor.Sure it helps but its minimal as are vents under eaves.

I am saying this living in a 20 years old brick 2 bedroom ,single story house with a single layer of bricks,no cavity wall .cement rendered inside.

 

Big mistake to buy the house ....the bricks heat up even though they are not exposed to direct sunlight ,its more like a pizza oven principle.

 

Yes I could spend a lot of ,money with insulation in the ceiling (we have brown tiles which suck in the heat) and I could put a sprinkler on the roof ,quite common in Australia for bush fire reasons but I doubt it would make great difference. Only other option is mister jets to cool the walls.

 

With temps expected to continue to rise ,its probaly easier to spend the money on using the air con more often.

 

To close I enquired re insulation being sprayed under our roof in Bangkok 10 years ago.The company refused to give me the  name and phone no of someone who had the service done so I smelt a rat.As it turned out that was one of my better decisons

The best against heath is a straw roof and no walls..........this is exactly what my parents-in -law have......and a cold drink of course ............

 

[sandrabbit]

44 minutes ago, lucjoker said:

The best against heath is a straw roof and no walls..........this is exactly what my parents-in -law have......and a cold drink of course ............

Chang or Leo? (see Singha light thread ........)

[Stuart21]

On 2017-5-17 at 8:56 AM, pizzachang said:

We used fiberglass roll, 12 inches thick and definitely got lower temperatures inside the house, Without a vent fan, however, heat willbuild up between the tiles and insulation. The spinning turban convection types need careful attention to the bearings - they wear out because of dust, etc. and start squeaking at 3 am.  A electric fan, switched on in the afternoons or a thermostatically controlled one should vent a lot of heat build up. 

"fiberglass roll, 12 inches thick and definitely got lower temperatures"

"vent fan to remove the heat"

Much better to stop the heat getting in. See #30. Vent fan not necessary, no bearing probs.

Bulk insulation is for the arctic, Canada, etc - reflective ins. is best for the tropics.

[Naam]

29 minutes ago, Stuart21 said:

Much better to stop the heat getting in. See #30. Vent fan not necessary, no bearing probs.

there is no way to prevent the attic getting hot with any kind of insulation. you can only slow down the heat-up. any other claims, especially no need to ventilate, have to be filed under layman yada-yada lacking basic knowledge of thermal-physics. period!

[sandrabbit]

5 hours ago, Naam said:

there is no way to prevent the attic getting hot with any kind of insulation. you can only slow down the heat-up. any other claims, especially no need to ventilate, have to be filed under layman yada-yada lacking basic knowledge of thermal-physics. period!

somebody posted you only needed the foil but it conducts heat, we have the foil on the inside of our roof tiles but we have Rockwool on the ceilings and we have louvres at opposite ends of our roof space to allow hot air to escape or be blown out by the wind. there are 3 ways of heat transfer conduction in solids, convection of fluids (liquids or gases), and radiation so you need more than one method to insulate against heat. 

[scorecard]

On 5/20/2017 at 3:36 PM, Stuart21 said:

"fiberglass roll, 12 inches thick and definitely got lower temperatures"

"vent fan to remove the heat"

Much better to stop the heat getting in. See #30. Vent fan not necessary, no bearing probs.

Bulk insulation is for the arctic, Canada, etc - reflective ins. is best for the tropics.

 

Thanks for all the comments and advice, I've now made some decisions about the insulation in the roof.

 

Different point - It's now more obvious to me that I need to have something to continuously get / pump  some of the hot air out of the roof cavity.

 

Our house roof has no 'blunt' ends' to install louvers etc., all four facets of the roof slope down. 

 

One idea is of course installing a spinning turban like thing on the roof to pull the air out. But I've had several comments that these are very prone to leaking around the edges therefore causing another problem. Plus I got very negative reactions from my family who quickly said 'so ugly'. 

 

At the moment on all four corners of the eaves the gypsum board has one panel with rows of small holes designed to let air out / in, however the holes / total area of the holes is so small that I doubt much air goes in or out.

 

So looking for other ideas / products please regarding how to 'pump' the hot air out. And please some suggestions of where to buy. 

 

All suggestions much appreciated, thanks.

[scorecard]

On 5/20/2017 at 9:33 PM, sandrabbit said:

somebody posted you only needed the foil but it conducts heat, we have the foil on the inside of our roof tiles but we have Rockwool on the ceilings and we have louvres at opposite ends of our roof space to allow hot air to escape or be blown out by the wind. there are 3 ways of heat transfer conduction in solids, convection of fluids (liquids or gases), and radiation so you need more than one method to insulate against heat. 

 

If your located in Chiang Mai can you please share where you bought the Rock Wool insulation, in bats, or roll?

 

Thanks.

Edited May 25, 2017 by scorecard

[sandrabbit]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 

If your located in Chiang Mai can you please share where you bought the rock Wool.

 

Thanks.

No I live in Rayong and it's manufactured here in Map ta Phut but I only found out it can be bought direct from the factory after I'd bought from a builders merchant, who stiffed us anyway. My wife had quoted the sq metres of our house and they sold us almost double the amount needed, I told my wife when it was delivered it was too much but as usual she only believed things when a Thai person tells her it's true. This is the product we used, found an English description on the Indian website with brochure & data sheet pdf's as downloads. 

 

http://www.rockwool.co.th/products/residential+and+commercial+buildings/cool'n'comfort+rl

 

http://www.rockwool.in/products/residential+-c12-+commercial/cool'n'comfort+rl

[scorecard]

Just now, sandrabbit said:

No I live in Rayong and it's manufactured here in Map ta Phut but I only found out it can be bought direct from the factory after I'd bought from a builders merchant, who stiffed us anyway. My wife had quoted the sq metres of our house and they sold us almost double the amount needed, I told my wife when it was delivered it was too much but as usual she only believed things when a Thai person tells her it's true. This is the product we used, found an English description on the Indian website with brochure & data sheet pdf's as downloads. 

 

http://www.rockwool.co.th/products/residential+and+commercial+buildings/cool'n'comfort+rl

 

http://www.rockwool.in/products/residential+-c12-+commercial/cool'n'comfort+rl

 

Thanks.

[Naam]

32 minutes ago, scorecard said:

But I've had several comments that these are very prone to leaking around the edges therefore causing another problem.

rubbish!

Quote

Plus I got very negative reactions from my family who quickly said 'so ugly'. 

no problem! just sweat with your family or pay for higher electricity consumtion if/when you use aircondition.

[KhonKaenKowboy]

My roof was like that at BWT.  I did a pair of spinners. Worked great, except for moire jet noise.  She said 5-10c reduction in attic heat, and that was spot on.

[Naam]

15 hours ago, Paruk said:

foam

Dunno if there are companies doing it here in Thailand, but I think there will be some. Should be not expensive.

there are companies who do that, it's bloody expensive and a senseless waste of money if the attic is not properly ventilated.

[scorecard]

On 5/26/2017 at 6:35 PM, Paruk said:

Make a solar chimney on the top of your roof. Steel 6 inch pipe, about 4 foot long, paint it black top it of with a rain cap. The sun will heat the black pipe (can go up to 80 degrees C), the hot air will rush out and create under pressure in the space under your roof. Fresh, cooler air will be sucked in from the vent holes in the eaves and any other openings. It's been done for ages, no electricity needed, no mechanics to wear out. Also easy to install. Use good sealing material for the pipe/roof connection.

 

If the roof space is not used, the way to go is preventing heat from there transferring into your living area. A cheap and very effective material is expanded polystyrene, it has a very high insulation value. Leave the eaves free so that cooler air can stream in through the vent holes. I used 3 inches in a quonset hut building, resulting in 8-12 degrees C difference with the outside.

 

Another insulation option is to have foam crete sprayed onto the inside of your roof. It doesn't expand, so will not lift the tiles. It's very light and has high R value. No itchy fibres to deal with, too. When applied properly, it will even increase the strength of your roof and also soundproof it. Dunno if there are companies doing it here in Thailand, but I think there will be some. Should be not expensive.

 

Good luck.

 

 

Thanks for this suggestion. You mention painting it black, my Thai son (actually it's his house) asked whether a good quality stainless steel 6 inch pipe (he does everything with quality stainless steel where possible) would also work.

 

He's wondering whether black colour would help to make make the 'system' work better.

 

Would appreciate any comments.

[Naam]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Would appreciate any comments.

 you think your family will make positive comments and its easier to make the installation leakproof? 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Also easy to install.

not easy for sure! the pipe needs a substructure to prevent wobbling. another problem is cutting (most probably) concrete tiles and the fun of sealing. good luck!

[Naam]

4 minutes ago, Paruk said:

Cutting roof tiles can be done with a grinder and diamond disc, sealing can be done with Sikaflex

you don't say!  i thought the cutting is done with a butter knife 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Naam

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, Paruk said:

Not so negative now! Cutting roof tiles can be done with a grinder and diamond disc, sealing can be done with Sikaflex (durable, UV resistant) and the pipe can be stabilised with cables spreading into 3 directions to prevent wobble. But, it is surely not easy for sure for someone that has no clue at all.

Not too many guys around that can cut a round hole for a pipe in a roof tile which is usually not flat, with an angle grinder using a disk.  None that I have seen anyway.

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Dante99

[Dante99]

2 hours ago, Paruk said:

Are all your 33,828 postings so negative and little contributing?

Not even close.  Just because he does not readily suffer fools does not mean that he is full of shit.