Trump to reassure Saudi allies, promote business, talk tough on radicalism

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Mission of peace or a business trip for the merchants of death

America is about war. I don't know that they haven't been involved in a conflict since WW2, whether declared or undeclared. I'm including the cold war in that, as it was fought with proxies.

Peace is what the politicians say to pacify the gullible among the populace.

[anon4546543]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

America is about war. I don't know that they haven't been involved in a conflict since WW2, whether declared or undeclared. I'm including the cold war in that, as it was fought with proxies.

Peace is what the politicians say to pacify the gullible among the populace.

Besides the cold war (which cost US taxpayers 15 trillion dollars and is now totally way behind us as Ruskies cosy up to Trump), the US won two regular wars. Panama and Grenada. 

Every other regular war has met with spectacular loss, from Korea, Vietnam, Lebanon, Iraq, Somalia - the list goes on. Who knows how many US service personnel died for what appears to be absolutely nothing.

But the US crusades go on, the US public gets sucked in every time and soldiers die. Just to support weapons deals to every scumbag country.

PS, wish I had bought Lockheed Martin and Boeing when they were low. Had I known that US politicians were bought by weapon manufacturers of both parties, I would now be a multi millionaire.

 The really evil thing is that the survivors of failed campaigns are treated with contempt by all parties in politics. Cannon fodder right to the end. And what do the soldiers have to show for it? A chest full of mostly useless medals, handed out willy nilly to the senior soldiers. Just my opinion.

[elgordo38]

10 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

"Back in September, the Obama administration approved a more than $115 billion arms deal with the Saudis. But as the death toll and reports of human rights violations in the Saudi-led war on Yemen began to rise dramatically, the Obama administration nixed the sale of the precision-guided munitions it had originally agreed to put in the deal to try to coerce the Saudis into curbing those atrocities.

Now those munitions are back in the Trump arms package — which speaks volumes about this administration."

https://www.vox.com/2017/5/20/15626638/trump-saudi-arabia-arms-deal

Time to Crazy Glue the Football shut. 

[elgordo38]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

America is about war. I don't know that they haven't been involved in a conflict since WW2, whether declared or undeclared. I'm including the cold war in that, as it was fought with proxies.

Peace is what the politicians say to pacify the gullible among the populace.

Amen brother

[pegman]

On May 17, 2017 at 8:50 AM, charmonman said:

Saudi Arabia has done far more to spread radical Islamic ideology of the kind that inspires terrorist groups like al qaeda, Isis, and taliban than Iran ever has. No wonder Obama was cool towards them, as the article says.

 

But now the 70 year old man with the mind of a 7 year old decides he likes them. Because they have a lot of money? Because they personally  flattered him? Because he's simply an ignoramus? The man disgusts me as he should anyone who doesn't have their head buried in the sand.

Iranians are Boy Scouts compared to the Saudis and Americans. 

[ilostmypassword]

President Trump offers mellow reversal of anti-Islamic rhetoric in Saudi Arabia speech

“This is not a battle between different faiths, different sects, or different civilizations,” Trump said in his highly-anticipated address at the Arabic Islamic American Summit.

“This is a battle between barbaric criminals who seek to obliterate human life, and decent people of all religions who seek to protect it.”

The speech did not include one instance of the term “radical Islamic terrorism,” which Trump as a candidate and President has insisted on using in spite of critics who accuse him of demonizing Islam.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-reverses-anti-islam-rhetoric-saudi-arabia-speech-article-1.3183445

 

Sounds like it could have been written by Obama. Trump wimped out.

[champers]

Trump speaks to a collection of unelected and dictatorial regimes that care not one jot for human rights. He heaps disdain on a country; Iran; that has endorsed it's leadership through a democratic electoral process. What a piece of work he is

 

[sujoop]

Trump's speech was a pretty good one (very well written by his writers - and a good 'performance'). Although it had almost zero of the anti-Muslim rhetoric he had  displayed up until now. He did state 'We are not here to lecture you' (one can just imagine his reaction if Obama had said the same though;). Those weary and wary of a tempest Trump will be relieved but will this approach upset his base? Nope (well, pending Ann Coulter's next column;) Most Trump supporters get a little something they want and simply ignore the rest including bait n switch.

 

Saudi's get arms with no 'pesky' human rights issues hanging over it (which is why Obama held up the initial arms deal which Trump simply rubber-stamped).  Also Lockheed Martin & others get a nice earner, despite discount negotiated on behalf of the Saudi's by Trump's son in law...

 

Despite some loathe the 'P*ssy grabber', GOP leaders are on board as they seek carte blanche control in a stacked Supreme Court.  GOP backers happily go along hoping to see Wall St & banking rules neutered so they can game the system once again (at the expense of main st). Same for big Pharma and big oil. Also the very rich would never let Trump in their lofty circles but are thrilled at the promise of tax cuts.

 

Joe avg Trump supporters get to feel an 'Archie Bunker  brotherhood' type validation, while bigots, mysoginists and racists feel absolutely empowered - meanwhile to all Trump's various supporters, its Russia/shmussia, from blocking US reporters, giving exclusive access to Russian press in the oval office, to  potential treason, to embarrassing daily boasts & blatant lies, to bait n switch, it's all 'mai pen rai'. They all know the man lacks judgement, is inadequate, insecure, erratic, unstable and likely an epic  disaster in waiting but nevermind, supporters each get a piece of what they want, thus nothing else matters. To many it comes down to simply, at least he's not brown, or a woman (or heaven forbid a brown gay woman and that's plenty good enough for them.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by sujoop

[Jingthing]

People are comparing this to Obama's Muslim world speech, and rightly so.

Obama's speech was incredibly inspiring but the impact of it was not great.

trump's speech was pedestrian, not charismatic, totally contrary to his campaign rhetoric (who is the real trump?), and while saying he wasn't preaching, he actually was, about war against largely common enemies rather than internal change.

The proof is in the impact.

Way too early to tell. 

Also the context of the timing of the speech is that the trump presidency in itself may be crumbling.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Jingthing

[mesquite]

Excellent speech by President Trump.  This is no Obama-like apology tour.  The President is well on his way to a second term.

[boomerangutang]

You know the expression; 'talk is cheap.'

Trump's talk is worth about 13 satang because he flip flops so often. 

 

Would you buy a made-in-China tie from that guy?

[boomerangutang]

19 hours ago, kevkev1888 said:

Donald Trump signs $110bn arms deal hours after landing in Saudi Arabia

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-latest-saudi-arabia-billions-arms-deal-military-sales-a7746601.html

Most of those deals had been hatched during the Obama administration.  However, Obama officials didn't want the Saudis to get state-of-the-art whiz-bang technical gizmos (which could fall into the wrong hands).  Trumpsters don't have a problem with that sort of thing.

 

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

American arms workers will be saying that.

                     Part of the deal is for Saudi workers to make some of the weapons.  That would result in manufacturing not done by US workers.

[iReason]

Contradictions add up during Trump's Saudi visit

 

"Trump's visit to Saudi Arabia, at the start of his first trip abroad as president, has produced a number of statements that run counter to the harsh, anti-Muslim rhetoric from his 2016 campaign."

 

"Saudi Arabia and many of the countries that gave vast amounts of money to the Clinton Foundation want women as slaves and to kill gays. Hillary must return all money from such countries!"

 

"Saudi Arabia giving $25 million, Qatar, all of these countries. You talk about women and women's rights? So these are people that push gays off business -- off buildings."

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/saudi-visit-trump-offers-contradictions-campaign-47545252

[elgordo38]

12 hours ago, pegman said:

Iranians are Boy Scouts compared to the Saudis and Americans. 

He is a salesman representing the US merchants of death for which the Saudi's give him a medal. Its not politics its business plain and simple. They are one of the biggest human rights violators including women on the planet but the color of the money or oil is acceptable. 

[mtls2005]

After two days WH officials are saying that the President is exhausted and some events will have to be cancelled. 

 

 

Exhaustion is to blame for Trump’s ‘Islamic terror’ comment: aide

 

WASHINGTON – President Trump veered off script Sunday and called out “Islamic terror” in his high-profile Saudi Arabia speech – not on purpose, but out of exhaustion, a White House aide said.

 

“He’s just an exhausted guy,” the official told reporters on background, The Hill reported.

 

The White House had planned to avoid Trump’s highly charged campaign rhetoric of ending “radical Islamic terror” in his first foreign policy speech abroad.

 

https://nypost.com/2017/05/21/exhaustion-is-to-blame-for-trumps-islamic-terror-comment-aide/

 

 

You need tremendous stamina. And we're defending Saudi Arabia. I do feel sorry for him.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by mtls2005

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, champers said:

Trump speaks to a collection of unelected and dictatorial regimes that care not one jot for human rights. He heaps disdain on a country; Iran; that has endorsed it's leadership through a democratic electoral process. What a piece of work he is

 

that has endorsed it's leadership through a democratic electoral process.

LOL. 

That is the sham the mullahs allow the population to believe. The unelected mullahs are the ones in charge.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

He is a salesman representing the US merchants of death for which the Saudi's give him a medal. Its not politics its business plain and simple. They are one of the biggest human rights violators including women on the planet but the color of the money or oil is acceptable. 

As one that was in Saudi, the Royals don't go out of their way to abuse women compared to regimes like the Taliban. I doubt any mutawahs were in the room during Trump's speech. They would have been having fits at Mrs Trump not covering her hair and hitting her with their sticks.

Not saying they are good or anything, but we had women Drs in the hospital I worked in, and daughters don't have to cover till they bleed.

The ones that are bad are the religious zealots, but all religious zealots are like that whatever religion they profess to follow. All as bad as each other.

[ilostmypassword]

43 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As one that was in Saudi, the Royals don't go out of their way to abuse women compared to regimes like the Taliban. I doubt any mutawahs were in the room during Trump's speech. They would have been having fits at Mrs Trump not covering her hair and hitting her with their sticks.

Not saying they are good or anything, but we had women Drs in the hospital I worked in, and daughters don't have to cover till they bleed.

The ones that are bad are the religious zealots, but all religious zealots are like that whatever religion they profess to follow. All as bad as each other.

If the Saudis confined their bigoted version of Islam to their own country, no problem. But in fact they massively subsidize madrassahs around to world to proselytize their vicious and intolerant version of Islam. They and a few of the other gulf states are the source of the doctrines upon which Al Qaeda and Isil are founded. \

  Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

Black Daesh, white Daesh. The former slits throats, kills, stones, cuts off hands, destroys humanity’s common heritage and despises archaeology, women and non-Muslims. The latter is better dressed and neater but does the same things.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html?_r=0

[thaibeachlovers]

18 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

If the Saudis confined their bigoted version of Islam to their own country, no problem. But in fact they massively subsidize madrassahs around to world to proselytize their vicious and intolerant version of Islam. They and a few of the other gulf states are the source of the doctrines upon which Al Qaeda and Isil are founded. \

  Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

Black Daesh, white Daesh. The former slits throats, kills, stones, cuts off hands, destroys humanity’s common heritage and despises archaeology, women and non-Muslims. The latter is better dressed and neater but does the same things.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html?_r=0

I was only referring to the Royals treatment of women.

The Royals give the religious zealots anything they want in exchange for not removing them from the planet.

It's not the Royals setting up madrassahs- it's the wahabbi fanatics. The Royals are too busy partying to do much anyway.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

I was only referring to the Royals treatment of women.

The Royals give the religious zealots anything they want in exchange for not removing them from the planet.

It's not the Royals setting up madrassahs- it's the wahabbi fanatics. The Royals are too busy partying to do much anyway.

Do you think that it costs nothing to set up these madrassahs around the world. It's the Royals who fund it.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Do you think that it costs nothing to set up these madrassahs around the world. It's the Royals who fund it.

That's what I said.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

That's what I said.

So who cares if they believe it or not?  They're financing it.  They're the enemy.  But Trump is willing to forgive all that in order to get a weapons deal that gives the Saudis everything they want. It's considerably more than 30 pieces of silver, but Trump is a Judas all the same.

[ilostmypassword]

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's what I said.

So you approve of Trump's support of them?

[Morch]

On 5/21/2017 at 0:11 PM, ilostmypassword said:

"Back in September, the Obama administration approved a more than $115 billion arms deal with the Saudis. But as the death toll and reports of human rights violations in the Saudi-led war on Yemen began to rise dramatically, the Obama administration nixed the sale of the precision-guided munitions it had originally agreed to put in the deal to try to coerce the Saudis into curbing those atrocities.

Now those munitions are back in the Trump arms package — which speaks volumes about this administration."

https://www.vox.com/2017/5/20/15626638/trump-saudi-arabia-arms-deal

 

So Obama's reasons as per cancelling the deal were more to do with the overt death civilian toll in the Yemen conflict, rather than the long term, ongoing civil rights issues within SA, or the global push of their brand of Islam. So had the Saudis refrained from indulging in their military intervention, or had kept civilian casualties at an "acceptable" level - the deal would have gone through, regardless of the issues you harp about. Also, generally speaking, use of precision-guided munitions is considered to cause relatively less civilian casualties. Not sure I follow the reasoning on that one.

[Morch]

20 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

President Trump offers mellow reversal of anti-Islamic rhetoric in Saudi Arabia speech

“This is not a battle between different faiths, different sects, or different civilizations,” Trump said in his highly-anticipated address at the Arabic Islamic American Summit.

“This is a battle between barbaric criminals who seek to obliterate human life, and decent people of all religions who seek to protect it.”

The speech did not include one instance of the term “radical Islamic terrorism,” which Trump as a candidate and President has insisted on using in spite of critics who accuse him of demonizing Islam.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-reverses-anti-islam-rhetoric-saudi-arabia-speech-article-1.3183445

 

Sounds like it could have been written by Obama. Trump wimped out.

 

Re the last line...so is that a good or bad thing?

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Morch said:

 

Re the last line...so is that a good or bad thing?

I think it's a good thing.  

[Jingthing]

 
Re the last line...so is that a good or bad thing?

Who is the real trump? Is there a real trump?

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Who is the real trump? Is there a real trump?

The more I think about Trump, the more he represents a certain element of this forum's posters - getting on in years, set in his ways, opinionated without necessarily being informed, prone to big talk, and yet a couple of idiosyncratic inconsistencies which make the regular ideological/political labeling complicated.

 

What sets him apart from the above, is a seemingly insatiable craving for adulation and affirmation. As far as adherence to ideology or any sort of principal goes - doubt it exists. Perhaps not a bad thing for those opposing him, maybe more a matter of making him see where the greater support ratings are.

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I think it's a good thing.  

 

Ah, so more a "told-ya-so" moment vs. Trump supporters. Not that I deny the allure, just thought there was a point to it.

[Morch]

14 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Most of those deals had been hatched during the Obama administration.  However, Obama officials didn't want the Saudis to get state-of-the-art whiz-bang technical gizmos (which could fall into the wrong hands).  Trumpsters don't have a problem with that sort of thing.

 

                     Part of the deal is for Saudi workers to make some of the weapons.  That would result in manufacturing not done by US workers.

 

Unless mistaken, the reasons cited by the Obama administration had to with the Saudi military intervention (and related civilian casualties) rather than the offered "fall into the wrong hands" explanation. But sure thing, turn it into a bogus partisan issue.

 

The current capacity of Saudi Arabia to manufacture sophisticated arms is negligible. It may, or may not, develop in later years, but as far as this deal goes, bringing it up as a reasonable objection is again, bogus. And to make it even more fun, suppose the Saudis were actually to invest in developing the infrastructure and know-how enabling significant self-manufacture - they'd still need to get help (at premium prices) from foreign companies - some of this is probably covered in the long term part of the current agreement.