Trump to reassure Saudi allies, promote business, talk tough on radicalism

[Morch]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So who cares if they believe it or not?  They're financing it.  They're the enemy.  But Trump is willing to forgive all that in order to get a weapons deal that gives the Saudis everything they want. It's considerably more than 30 pieces of silver, but Trump is a Judas all the same.

 

Saudi Arabia is the "enemy"? Is your home country at war with them? On hostile terms, even? Doubt it. Trump isn't doing anything that another US president wouldn't have done (like Obama), or for that matter, any leader of a relevant country (that is, having a significant arms industry).

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Saudi Arabia is the "enemy"? Is your home country at war with them? On hostile terms, even? Doubt it. Trump isn't doing anything that another US president wouldn't have done (like Obama), or for that matter, any leader of a relevant country (that is, having a significant arms industry).

Obama was balking at providing weaponry that would allow Saudi Arabia to pursue the war in Yemen.

"The Obama administration backed Saudi Arabia when it launched air strikes in Yemen in March 2015 but grew sour as it saw the number of civilian casualties grow and curtailed some military support to Riyadh.

By contrast, "we don't get criticized about the war in Yemen" by the Trump administration, the senior Saudi official said."

 

And the enemy I'm referring to was in relation to Trump saying that the enemy was Islamist radicalism..  The chief proselytizer of that doctrine is Saudi Arabia. And the UAE too.

Once again, I cannot recommend too highly this article about the small degree of difference there is between Saudi Arabia on one hand and Isis an Al Qaeda on the other.

Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

Black Daesh, white Daesh. The former slits throats, kills, stones, cuts off hands, destroys humanity’s common heritage and despises archaeology, women and non-Muslims. The latter is better dressed and neater but does the same things.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Obama was balking at providing weaponry that would allow Saudi Arabia to pursue the war in Yemen.

"The Obama administration backed Saudi Arabia when it launched air strikes in Yemen in March 2015 but grew sour as it saw the number of civilian casualties grow and curtailed some military support to Riyadh.

By contrast, "we don't get criticized about the war in Yemen" by the Trump administration, the senior Saudi official said."

 

And the enemy I'm referring to was in relation to Trump saying that the enemy was Islamist radicalism..  The chief proselytizer of that doctrine is Saudi Arabia. And the UAE too.

Once again, I cannot recommend too highly this article about the small degree of difference there is between Saudi Arabia on one hand and Isis an Al Qaeda on the other.

Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It

Black Daesh, white Daesh. The former slits throats, kills, stones, cuts off hands, destroys humanity’s common heritage and despises archaeology, women and non-Muslims. The latter is better dressed and neater but does the same things.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html

 

Obama did not balk at providing arms to the "enemy",  as you put it - so long as the "enemy" wasn't making the US looking too bad (by association). It had nothing to do with the reasons you cite for Saudi Arabia being the "enemy". Trump, for all his sins, is just being less PC about it.

 

It is not often that I agree with @thaibeachlovers , but he got one thing right about this. Posters often refer to countries as if they represent a unified set of ideals and goals. In reality, that's rarely the case. So while not denying powerful elements within Saudi Arabia do their best to market their brand of Islam, I doubt this can be extended to Saudi Arabia in general. In this sense, Trump's words are accurate enough - even though I do not expect he actually realized it.

 

Again, Trump isn't unique. Obama and other US presidents before him kept relations with Saudi Arabia, sold arms and avoided open criticism. Same goes for most leaders of relevant countries. Linking an op-ed won't change that.

 

 

 

 

[Credo]

49 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Obama did not balk at providing arms to the "enemy",  as you put it - so long as the "enemy" wasn't making the US looking too bad (by association). It had nothing to do with the reasons you cite for Saudi Arabia being the "enemy". Trump, for all his sins, is just being less PC about it.

 

It is not often that I agree with @thaibeachlovers , but he got one thing right about this. Posters often refer to countries as if they represent a unified set of ideals and goals. In reality, that's rarely the case. So while not denying powerful elements within Saudi Arabia do their best to market their brand of Islam, I doubt this can be extended to Saudi Arabia in general. In this sense, Trump's words are accurate enough - even though I do not expect he actually realized it.

 

Again, Trump isn't unique. Obama and other US presidents before him kept relations with Saudi Arabia, sold arms and avoided open criticism. Same goes for most leaders of relevant countries. Linking an op-ed won't change that.

 

 

 

 

"Again, Trump isn't unique"....I think that is wrong.   I'd say he is unique.   The distance between his rhetoric during the campaign and his actions is truly astonishing.   It can only be viewed in galactic measurements.   

[Morch]

12 hours ago, Credo said:

"Again, Trump isn't unique"....I think that is wrong.   I'd say he is unique.   The distance between his rhetoric during the campaign and his actions is truly astonishing.   It can only be viewed in galactic measurements.   

 

You may think what you like. Objectively, though, there's an easily perceived gap between most Western politicians' declared ideals and their actual dealings with Saudi Arabia (or similar countries). To make it clear, once more, the essential parts of the arms deal were negotiated and agreed upon during Obama's term.

[iReason]

Rand Paul to tee up vote on blocking Trump's Saudi arms deal

 

"Kentucky GOP Sen. Rand Paul is expected to offer legislation as soon as Wednesday that would block President Donald Trump's $110 billion weapons sales to Saudi Arabia."

 

"Paul's planned bill disapproving of the arms deal, confirmed by a Senate source familiar with the timeline, comes as Trump completes the first leg of an overseas trip that began with a warm welcome from the Saudi royal family in Riyadh."

 

"Paul recently joined three Democrats in proposing to make future arms sales contingent on reining in Saudi military involvement in Yemen's civil war, and he is likely to take advantage of a 1976 law that allows any senator to force a vote on halting overseas arms sales."

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/23/rand-paul-saudi-arabia-arms-sales-238730

 

[Ramen087]

On 5/20/2017 at 8:26 AM, mtls2005 said:

Jared got them a discount on the THAAD system.

 

Kushner called Lockheed CEO about $100B Saudi arms deal

 

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump's son-in-law and utility diplomat, Jared Kushner, shocked a high-level Saudi delegation earlier this month when he personally called Lockheed Martin CEO Marillyn Hewson and asked if she would cut the price of a sophisticated missile detection system, according to a source with knowledge of the call.

 

Pressured to finalize a massive $100-plus billion arms deal in the two weeks leading up to Trump's trip to Saudi Arabia, Kushner hoped to maneuver a discount on Lockheed's Terminal High Altitude Area Defense (THAAD) system during the Saudis' visit to the White House on May 1 -- a request that Hewson said she would look into at the time.

The New York Times first reported the exchange between Kushner and Hewson.

http://nypost.com/2017/05/20/trump-signs-off-on-110b-arms-deal-in-saudi-arabia/

 

110 billion plus another 350 billion down the line...

[Jingthing]

Why get them a discount? What happened to America First? Tired of winning yet?

[mtls2005]