NCPO: Our biggest achievement is peace

[halloween]

11 minutes ago, JAG said:

The surveys are not believed because they are written by/conducted for those with a very soecific agenda.

What you mean is that they don't fit your agenda. Has there been even one person involved in those surveys who claims that they witnessed manipulation? How do you maintain secrecy in a conspiracy involving so many people?

[LannaGuy]

1 hour ago, yellowboat said:

Given circumstances, the Thai people, as a whole, have acted with restraint.  They deserve far more credit for their behavior than they have gotten. 

Normally agree with you but not on this one, quite the opposite but i cannot explain why here 

[halloween]

18 minutes ago, Denim said:

According to Suthep , former member of Democrat party and his Democrat party colleagues who quit the party to protest and shut down Bangkok , all the unrest was deliberately planned and actuated by himself and the military just to create a scenario where a coup would be justified.

 

The plan succeeded and now they can congratulate themselves for bringing peace and an end to strife that they themselves orchestrated.

 

Unfortunately for the democrats , their erstwhile plotters have decided to stay on and not shoehorn Abhisit back into his puppet leadership.

 

They must be miffed.

Your claim that the violence was orchestrated denies the fact that there were 2 sides involved. Of course the UDD/red shirt violence was inevitable, that is what they do, what they were created for.

It is hypocrisy to claim that people are now denied the opportunity to speak out, while also claiming that protest against the criminal excesses of PTP were simply to induce violence.

[LannaGuy]

54 minutes ago, halloween said:

Has it occurred to you that the Thai people are nowhere as upset about the current situation as some seem to believe? Or that they actually prefer having the red shirt thugs put back in their box?

Of course, there are plenty of surveys that convey that information, but they can't be believed if they don't fit the agenda.

It's not scientific but I mix with a broad spectrum of Thais and I have never come across ONE yet who fit's your theory and most reminisce about the past and certainly are not happy about the present. That is not so much about loss of democracy but about economics, people being locked up, no freedom of speech, submarines etc.

[Denim]

4 minutes ago, halloween said:

Your claim that the violence was orchestrated denies the fact that there were 2 sides involved. Of course the UDD/red shirt violence was inevitable, that is what they do, what they were created for.

It is hypocrisy to claim that people are now denied the opportunity to speak out, while also claiming that protest against the criminal excesses of PTP were simply to induce violence.

 

I don't claim that the violence was orchestrated.

 

Suthep and his yellow friends stated it was so and that Suthep and Prayuth had used the Line app constantly during the troubles to plan their daily strategy . This was to hand tie the then government by threatening military intervention should they try to disperse those protesting.

 

Of course, you will remember the newspapers coverage of the party Suthep had after the coup where he all his friends turned up in military costumes to celebrate the success of their plan to orchestrate the coup.

 

I am claiming nothing ....... merely stating the facts as said by Suthep and widely reported in the press.

[mtls2005]

I guess if military juntas were some sort of successful form of government there would be a lot of them.

 

Not sure, but I think Thailand may be the only current military government?

 

 

I think any rational person would stipulate that a Military-led coup/government, which grants itself unlimited power and amnesty, will strike fear into a populace and "rule" in "peace".

 

If "peace" is your only goal then a Military government may be "ideal"?

 

Somehow protests lead to a reasonable transition in South Korea, without the need for the military. 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by mtls2005

[JAG]

What you mean is that they don't fit your agenda. Has there been even one person involved in those surveys who claims that they witnessed manipulation? How do you maintain secrecy in a conspiracy involving so many people?

Very simply, ask the people that understand the implicit risks in not giving the answers you want.

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, halloween said:

Has it occurred to you that the Thai people are nowhere as upset about the current situation as some seem to believe? Or that they actually prefer having the red shirt thugs put back in their box?

Of course, there are plenty of surveys that convey that information, but they can't be believed if they don't fit the agenda.

During the US revolution only 14% of the population fought British rule.  Usually it is a small number of people who do awful things or wonderful things.  The rest just graze like farm animals waiting for the outcome.   

[maoro2013]

Its called suppression.

[jonclark]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

Quite. how dare they protest about the criminal behaviour and excesses of their government. PTP was absolutely right sending the private militia to discourage protests.

One thing though, wasn't THAT putting a gun in someone's mouth and telling them to be happy?

 

When governments and people talk about truth, freedom and achievements in Thailand; be they Reds / Yellows / Watermelons / PTP / UDD / Suthep or the military and the full range of hues, colours and ideologies in between. There is only one real indefatigable reality here. 

 

In Thailand truth and freedom lives in the warm  barrel of a loaded gun.  And you the people will accept that truth and embrace your freedoms, even if you disagree with how the truth is manipulated and your freedoms are curtailed. 

 

For the optimist in me is shows how far Thailand must rise to overcome the many complex challenges Thailand faces to become a great country. Whilst the pessimist in me feels it shows how far the country has sunk. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by jonclark

[Lupatria]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

... thugs being allowed to run amok without fear of prosecution.

...and when exactly did that stop?

[halloween]

27 minutes ago, JAG said:

Very simply, ask the people that understand the implicit risks in not giving the answers you want.

Admit it, your conspiracy theory sucks. How do you secretly intimidate thousands of survey respondents and keep it a secret?

[Eric Loh]

NCPO biggest achievement is pretending that they achieved peace. 

 

"Peace to have meaning must be translated into bread and rice, shelter, health and education, as well as freedom and human dignity".

- Ralph Johnson Bunche

 

[dcpo]

5 minutes ago, halloween said:

Admit it, your conspiracy theory sucks. How do you secretly intimidate thousands of survey respondents and keep it a secret?

It's quite easy to construct a BS survey that gives you results you want. It's so easy to bias survey results that branches of science that use them have developed extensive systems to ensure they don't do it by accident. 

[YetAnother]

1 hour ago, bsdthai said:

Violence has been achieved! Violence is now the rule of law in the country as far as i see. With no free speech, corruption out of control, pretend police force, bankrupt hospital and so on yet a bunch of new subs it seems Violence and the threat of is the way it is and its teaching average joe to do the same to get what they want.

I say the calm before the storm is not to be confused with peace. 

Good job knob!

it IS interesting; thailand is a mess and the myopic current leaders saying garbage

[dcpo]

Here's a thought experiment about 'peace'. What would happen if elections were held next week and PTP won? 'Peace' would end right? That's the whole argument for the military staying in power. But why would peace end? Because a bunch of people currently talking about how great peace is would start protesting...

[tbthailand]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

Well, yes. That's how it works in a civilised society. Which is a better situation than thugs being allowed to run amok without fear of prosecution.

but the thugs are running amok without fear of prosecution... 

[jonclark]

5 minutes ago, dcpo said:

Here's a thought experiment about 'peace'. What would happen if elections were held next week and PTP won? 'Peace' would end right? That's the whole argument for the military staying in power. But why would peace end? Because a bunch of people currently talking about how great peace is would start protesting...

 

But only if you feel that protesting is not an expression of a peaceful society. And that is the catch - the elite see social unrest as a sign of conflict (perhaps they feel threatened) as opposed to an opportunity for discourse to address social issues that need addressing. 

[tbthailand]

the junta has always confused the words "peace" and "control"

[Krataiboy]

5 hours ago, Raymonddiaz said:

I never agreed before with the junta but it's true your ONLY achievement is PEACE in Bangkok.

And of course, all those who claim the military and Suthep colluded to make Bangkok ungovernable to justify the coup are just crazy conspiracy theorists.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Krataiboy
errors

[Eric Loh]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

Well, yes. That's how it works in a civilised society. Which is a better situation than thugs being allowed to run amok without fear of prosecution.

The country was pretty civilised and normal during the Bangkok shutdown. Were there thugs running amok or uncontrollable mobs raging through the cities or countryside; the blood was not running in the streets; there was no destruction of buildings or homes; there was no rioting or looting; the government, courts, medical establishments were kept open for business and functioning adequately; telecommunications, social media facilities were active and normal. Protests not widespread but confined to limited areas in Bangkok. Rest of Bangkok and the upcountry continue life as normal and the Bangkok famed traffic was just as horrific as usual. Pretty civilized to me and my company was functioning without disruption. Still they stage a coup claiming to bring peace. Baloney, I say. Matters were worse in 2009 and no coup. Because the chosen one was PM then?

[Jack100]

If I  was a voting Democrat based in a  ( self styled )  " red shirt ' village I would be pleased the coup took place

 and looking forward to voting freely without fear in the next election .

OK so they still  will lose but at least a try and a fail is still a try . !

 

[LannaGuy]

Just now, Jack100 said:

If I  was a voting Democrat based in a  ( self styled )  " red shirt ' village I would be pleased the coup took place

 and looking forward to voting freely without fear in the next election .

OK so they still  will lose but at least a try and a fail is still a try . !

 

Explain to us how a 'democrat' can be pleased with a coup?   and what is this 'voting freely'?  you think some were forced to vote?  BTW the next election will be a show-election only not a real one

[ChrisY1]

Peaceful..?....But where has all the money gone? 

 

[Eric Loh]

20 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

And of course, all those who claim the military and Suthep colluded to make Bangkok ungovernable to justify the coup are just crazy conspiracy theorists.

Really not a theory but an open admission by Suthep himself. 

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, Jack100 said:

If I  was a voting Democrat based in a  ( self styled )  " red shirt ' village I would be pleased the coup took place

 and looking forward to voting freely without fear in the next election .

OK so they still  will lose but at least a try and a fail is still a try . !

 

The PDRC supporters clasping the throat of a voter in a menacing manner still haunts me. 

[candide]

3 minutes ago, Jack100 said:

If I  was a voting Democrat based in a  ( self styled )  " red shirt ' village I would be pleased the coup took place

 and looking forward to voting freely without fear in the next election .

OK so they still  will lose but at least a try and a fail is still a try . !

 

While not 100% perfect, the 2011 election organised by the Democrat government have been recognised as fair by neutral observers that were allowed to check it.

It is also highly paradoxal that you don't seem to have the same concern for millions of people who were forbidden to vote by yellow thugs during the 2014 election....

[WhizBang]

Peace brought about by the barrel of a gun, is NOT peace.  It is, in fact, FEAR.  So total failure on their one achievement.

 

As for airport seizures and whistle blowers in Bangkok, all of that occurred due to a total and complete failure of the police to enforce the law.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

Well, yes. That's how it works in a civilised society. Which is a better situation than thugs being allowed to run amok without fear of prosecution.

The generals are running amok without fear of prosecution.

[heybruce]

30 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The country was pretty civilised and normal during the Bangkok shutdown. Were there thugs running amok or uncontrollable mobs raging through the cities or countryside; the blood was not running in the streets; there was no destruction of buildings or homes; there was no rioting or looting; the government, courts, medical establishments were kept open for business and functioning adequately; telecommunications, social media facilities were active and normal. Protests not widespread but confined to limited areas in Bangkok. Rest of Bangkok and the upcountry continue life as normal and the Bangkok famed traffic was just as horrific as usual. Pretty civilized to me and my company was functioning without disruption. Still they stage a coup claiming to bring peace. Baloney, I say. Matters were worse in 2009 and no coup. Because the chosen one was PM then?

Also worth noting that the protests in Bangkok were dying, and there was the genuine threat (threat in the minds of the generals, Suthep, etc.) of successful nationwide elections.  The military had to act while there was still a semblance of a protest to provide weak justification for their coup.