British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

[7by7]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

I don't think a majority of British males are enfeebled in any way. There is likely to be a backlash if authorities don't get a grip very quickly. I don't agree with any kind of violence / vigilante response, but, the communities must be held to account, jointly and severally. I am looking forward to a much stronger Prevent program and automatic quarantine for males returning from a list of countries by whichever route.

 The authorities are getting a grip, are investigating suspects and are, where there is sufficient evidence, prosecuting them.

 

Security services 'prevented 13 UK terror attacks since 2013' That was prior to the Westminster attack; there have been more since: Manchester bombing: Sharp rise in number of UK terror plots foiled since March, say officials.

 

To foil these attacks and, where possible, arrest and charge suspects the police and security services need help and  information from the communities where the terrorists are hiding. That is, of course, Muslim communities. It is obvious that they are receiving this help and information.

 

There are many Muslim groups all over the country actively working to prevent the radicalisation of young British Muslims and fight extremism; for example the Active Change Foundation. Due to increasing controversy over the Prevent programme (What is the anti-terror Prevent programme and why is it controversial? ) they, like some other groups, are no longer part of Prevent as they feel being so could be counter productive.

 

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

One way or another, The British will not tolerate barbarism in their midst.

Indeed; and that includes British Muslims. Which is why the security services receive so much help and information from them.

[Ace of Pop]

So he went to School , played Football , went on Airplanes , what work did he do.?. Not mentioned that I notice.??


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, onthesoi said:

As election campaign resumes, Labour leader to draw link between UK foreign policy and terror attacks...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/26/general-election-2017-terror-corbyn-may-g7-sicily-politics-live

What a wazzock

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

Is applause illegal?

If my daughter was murdered so callously, you would be well advised not to applaud.

[Flustered]

11 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 The authorities are getting a grip, are investigating suspects and are, where there is sufficient evidence, prosecuting them.

 

Security services 'prevented 13 UK terror attacks since 2013' That was prior to the Westminster attack; there have been more since: Manchester bombing: Sharp rise in number of UK terror plots foiled since March, say officials.

 

To foil these attacks and, where possible, arrest and charge suspects the police and security services need help and  information from the communities where the terrorists are hiding. That is, of course, Muslim communities. It is obvious that they are receiving this help and information.

 

There are many Muslim groups all over the country actively working to prevent the radicalisation of young British Muslims and fight extremism; for example the Active Change Foundation. Due to increasing controversy over the Prevent programme (What is the anti-terror Prevent programme and why is it controversial? ) they, like some other groups, are no longer part of Prevent as they feel being so could be counter productive.

 

Indeed; and that includes British Muslims. Which is why the security services receive so much help and information from them.

So the world is a wonderful place and we can all go about our lives in peace or is that pieces?

[7by7]

Just now, Flustered said:

So the world is a wonderful place and we can all go about our lives in peace or is that pieces?

 

All this post shows is that having been proven wrong all you can do is make a childishly sarcastic comment!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, onthesoi said:

Grouse was replying to a post which said arrests have been made, he asked what was being done about those applauding the attack online ...try to keep up.

 

Btw I always pay in cash...

To clarify

 

The problem is not confined to the perpetrators of atrocities,  or their accomplices. 

 

They have support networks including family, friends and associates, social media buddies, preachers and general hangers on.

 

Then we have the cheering audience on social media

 

And then we have the ambivalent masses.

 

In aggregate it is disingenuous to insinuate that horrendous acts like these are widely abhorred by Islamists generally.

 

I don't buy it, sorry. 

[Flustered]

What is shows is that the Manchester terror attack is becoming a normal event that we should all get used to according to some.

 

To say that the security forces are doing their job is a joke. If they were doing their job, this would not have happened. And why are they not doing their job? Because their hands are tied by Luvvie Lefties and Islamic terrorist apologists who scream "racist" every time a Muslim is brought in for questioning.

 

When we see thousands of Muslins taking to the streets protesting against therse terrorists instead of demanding Sharia Law, then maybe, just maybe the point will have hit home and the Muslim community knows it has to do more than protect the bombers.

[Grouse]

50 minutes ago, simple1 said:

What on earth are you on about - it's exactly what UK security forces do - try to track down all those involved. 

 

No, you just don't get it.

 

Our police will track down the culprits and they will face the full force of the law.

 

But it's the others; the ones who vocally or tacitly support such horrific deeds. 

 

It all needs to be rooted out.

 

It doesn't fit with British values and social mores. OK?

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

No, you just don't get it.

 

Our police will track down the culprits and they will face the full force of the law.

 

But it's the others; the ones who vocally or tacitly support such horrific deeds. 

 

It all needs to be rooted out.

 

It doesn't fit with British values and social mores. OK?

Sorry you're not making sense - anyone tactically supporting a terror network / event would be committing a criminal act. As far as I know it is a criminal act to voice support for violence / incite hatred in the UK, If it is not then IMO further legislation should be enacted. However, if there is any political simularity to Australia, the right will lobby furiously to try and stop enactment of hate speech laws or to nullify existing laws in this matter.

Edited May 26, 2017 by simple1

[vogie]

'Question time' came from Salford last night, a muslim lady spoke about the problems in the muslim community. She spoke very eloquently and I think the rest of the muslims in the audience scoffed at her comments. It is worth listening to, you can forward the video to 4 minutes to catch what she says, just seconds before she speaks.

 

 

 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

Sorry you're not making sense - anyone tactically supporting a terror network / event would be committing a criminal act. As far as I know it is a criminal act to voice support for violence / incite hatred in the UK. If it is not then further legislation should be enacted. However, if there is any political simularity to Australia, the right will lobby furiously to try and stop enactment of hate speech laws or to nullify existing laws in this matter.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/survey-reveals-chasm-between-muslim-values-and-rest-of-uk-d30hl55lk

 

This need to be stopped

 

Integrate properly, or we will differentiate properly

 

Stop trying to justify or explain away this horror. You're making it worse for us who really care. Please

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

'Question time' came from Salford last night, a muslim lady spoke about the problems in the muslim community. She spoke very eloquently and I think the rest of the muslims in the audience scoffed at her comments. It is worth listening to, you can forward the video to 4 minutes to catch what she says, just seconds before she speaks.

 

 

 

Excellent! Thanks Vogie! Makes the point very eloquently 

[KelSolaar]

On 2017-5-23 at 9:20 AM, morrobay said:

I'm waiting for the report that the bomber was on the "radar"  Isn't high time for those on radar be rounded up and put on a boat. 

It's certainly time that MI5/GCHQ/PM etc were maybe a bit more open about what they did know, that way me and you could make informed suggestions. At the moment, we can only guess how on the radar they were and then what could be done. That said, I don't have any idea how the intelligence community's games work, for all we know, they literally are sh*t-hot and doing an amazing job... who can tell? If they are, imagine how many potential attacks they may have privately foiled already. Could be loads, I know they publicize some, but a lot, for better or worse, is kept well and truly under their hats for strategic purposes. 

Edited May 26, 2017 by KelSolaar

[Flustered]

25 minutes ago, KelSolaar said:

It's certainly time that MI5/GCHQ/PM etc were maybe a bit more open about what they did know, that way me and you could make informed suggestions. At the moment, we can only guess how on the radar they were and then what could be done. That said, I don't have any idea how the intelligence community's games work, for all we know, they literally are sh*t-hot and doing an amazing job... who can tell? If they are, imagine how many potential attacks they may have privately foiled already. Could be loads, I know they publicize some, but a lot, for better or worse, is kept well and truly under their hats for strategic purposes. 

Having spent a lifetime in "electronics", I know exactly what the agencies are capable of.

 

Their capability is not the question. The question is what the authorities are allowed to do with the information.?  Answer, very little under current laws.

 

It is time for this country to realise that pandering to the Liberal Elite just so they can feel warm and cuddly inside is destroying our country.

[yogi100]

On 5/25/2017 at 4:01 PM, onthesoi said:

I was replying to the post which claimed there were no christian churches in muslim countries, I was merley pointing out there have been christians churches in muslim countries for thousands of years.

 

Christians and muslims were living relatively peacefully side by side until Iraq got invaded by bush and suddenly the christians were being murdered due to the instabilty and power vacuum created by the us/uk invasion....as I said Iraq became an exremists wet dream as a direct result of the western invasion.....btw the bombing in manchester is directly a result of uk foriegn policy in various muslim countries.

 

And a result of politicians thinking that Muslims can be introduced into Christian Western nations and live in harmony with with the inhabitants who have lived there since history was first recorded and were never consulted  on the matter. It's clearly not working nor was it working before 9/11.

 

Even the ignorant racist thug Enoch Powell knew what was going to happen and gave ample warning.

Edited May 26, 2017 by yogi100

[Mosha]

Excellent! Thanks Vogie! Makes the point very eloquently 

More importantly the lady who claims she's wrong after. She's not wrong.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk

[KC 71]

I truly think that it is important that we don't tarnish all the people with the same brush

[Grouse]

35 minutes ago, KC 71 said:

I truly think that it is important that we don't tarnish all the people with the same brush

What proportion would you recommend?

 

28 Coptic Christians were murdered in Egypt today? Off topic but related?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40059307

 

I heard today that the Manc perpetrator's father escaped Libya. It seems he was an Islamist and escaped Gadaffi.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Grouse

[sandrabbit]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

What proportion would you recommend?

 

28 Coptic Christians were murdered in Egypt today? Off topic but related?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40059307

 

I heard today that the Manc perpetrator's father escaped Libya. It seems he was an Islamist and escaped Gadaffi.

not been looking at the news the last couple of years, I was working in Alexandria and was on my 5 weeks off when the arab spring happened in Egypt?. went back a couple of times later but didn't feel safe generally although I have to say I found most of the Egyptian guys straight as a die. the point I was coming to is that for years the coptic churches and congregations have been attacked so many times and all someone has to do is say, they're hiding a muslim in the church and it's burnt to the ground. 

[evadgib]

A cautionary note from HMG re charitable donations:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/generous-public-should-make-sure-donations-go-to-genuine-charities-supporting-the-victims-in-manchester-says-charity-regulator

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

What proportion would you recommend?

 

28 Coptic Christians were murdered in Egypt today? Off topic but related?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40059307

 

I heard today that the Manc perpetrator's father escaped Libya. It seems he was an Islamist and escaped Gadaffi.

Far bigger numbers here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&hl=en&gl=uk&tbm=nws&btnmeta_news_search=1&q=airstrike+civilians&oq=airstrike+civilians&gs_l=news-cc.12..43j43i53.876.9309.0.10258.18.11.0.7.0.0.410.2364.0j7j3j0j1.11.0...0.0...1ac.1.qYlP1OD4oWg

 

 

But, they dont count right?

 

[Hutch68]

This bombing was an absolute disgrace and probably one of the worst acts of Islam ever, blowing up children I hope one of the bolts flew up that disgusting turd's arse and all his family and friends burn in hell.

This weekend England has many huge sporting and music events still going ahead regardless.

Well done to all the people of manchester and great work by the police, emergency services and everyone else who helped.

Suicide bombers next time don't waste your pathetic lives blowing us up you will never win just take your bombs to your local holy house and let it rip on your own, the problems will soon be over.

[7by7]

7 hours ago, Flustered said:

What is shows is that the Manchester terror attack is becoming a normal event that we should all get used to according to some.

 Far from it; but we British have been subject to terrorist attacks for 50 years.We will not be defeated by them; we will not be made to cower in fear by them; we will show the terrorists that they cannot win by carrying on our lives as normal. As the spirit shown by Mancunians of all faiths or none over the last few days has shown.

 

7 hours ago, Flustered said:

To say that the security forces are doing their job is a joke. If they were doing their job, this would not have happened. And why are they not doing their job? Because their hands are tied by Lavvy Lefties and Islamic terrorist apologists who scream "racist" every time a Muslim is brought in for questioning.

Why do you dismiss the success they have had over the last four years so easily?

 

Why do you dismiss the intelligence they receive from the Muslim community?

 

Show us some examples of your 'Lavvy Lefties and Islamic terrorist apologists who scream "racist" every time a Muslim is brought in for questioning.' There has certainly been none over the arrests made since the bombing.

 

No matter how hard the security forces work, no matter how much intelligence they receive, no matter how many plots they foil, some will get through. As the IRA chillingly crowed after they failed to kill Thatcher in the Brighton bombing "Today you were lucky. But you have to be lucky every time, we only have to be lucky once."

 

7 hours ago, Flustered said:

When we see thousands of Muslins taking to the streets protesting against therse terrorists instead of demanding Sharia Law, then maybe, just maybe the point will have hit home and the Muslim community knows it has to do more than protect the bombers.

Using your logic, every single Irish citizen must have supported the atrocities committed by the IRA and INLA etc., in the 1960s, 70s, 80s and 90s; because there were never in all that time thousands of Irish people taking to the streets in protest against them.

 

Muslims in the UK and across the world have constantly and regularly condemned ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups; online, in the press and, yes, on the streets.

 

When have thousands of British Muslims taken to the streets to demand Sharia law?

 

The Muslim community do not protect bombers or their associates, they report them; as the police and security services acknowledge.

 

Whilst i do not agree with all of Mehdi Hasan's points, his central argument is very true: Reactions to Manchester Bombing Show How Anti-Muslim Bigots Are “Useful Idiots” for ISIS

Quote

If you want to defeat ISIS, listen to former ISIS hostage Nicolas Henin. The group is “heartened by every sign of overreaction, of division, of fear, of racism, of xenophobia … [and] drawn to any examples of ugliness on social media,” the French journalist wrote in November 2015 in the wake of the Paris attacks. “Central to their world view is the belief that communities cannot live together with Muslims, and every day their antennae will be tuned towards finding supporting evidence.”

Get that? Islamophobia plays right into the hands of ISIS. Wittingly or unwittingly, anti-Muslim bigots have become recruiting sergeants for a group they profess to hate and claim to want to destroy. The Islamophobes, to borrow a line from Lenin, are ISIS’s useful idiots.

 

So for how much longer are you going to be doing ISIS's work for them?

 

How much longer will you aid them in spreading the hate and division they need to thrive outside their enclaves in Iraq and Syria?

[7by7]

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/survey-reveals-chasm-between-muslim-values-and-rest-of-uk-d30hl55lk

 

This need to be stopped

That survey was discussed at length here when it first appeared, and shown to be unrepresentative.

 

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

Integrate properly, or we will differentiate properly

What do you mean?

 

That all Muslims should convert to Christianity? What about other minority religions in the UK?

 

That all Muslims must wear Western dress only? Most do, most of the time; some don't ever. The same as other ethnic groups. Who are you to dictate what someone can or cannot wear?

 

How about the hundreds of thousands of Muslims working in the NHS, Police, Fire Brigade and other emergency services, not to mention those serving in the armed forces. Have they, in your opinion, integrated?

 

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

Stop trying to justify or explain away this horror. You're making it worse for us who really care. Please

Who is trying to justify it? explain the rational of those who commit such horrors; maybe; but justify them? Examples of such justification, please.

 

Do you really care, or have you, like others, merely leapt upon the suffering innocents in order to expound your prejudices?

[7by7]

7 hours ago, KelSolaar said:

It's certainly time that MI5/GCHQ/PM etc were maybe a bit more open about what they did know, that way me and you could make informed suggestions. At the moment, we can only guess how on the radar they were and then what could be done. That said, I don't have any idea how the intelligence community's games work, for all we know, they literally are sh*t-hot and doing an amazing job... who can tell? If they are, imagine how many potential attacks they may have privately foiled already. Could be loads, I know they publicize some, but a lot, for better or worse, is kept well and truly under their hats for strategic purposes. 

Apart from your first sentence; spot on.

 

The security services cannot be 'a bit more open about what they did know' simply because if they were, then the very people they are watching would be tipped off!

[Flustered]

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Far from it; but we British have been subject to terrorist attacks for 50 years.We will not be defeated by them; we will not be made to cower in fear by them; we will show the terrorists that they cannot win by carrying on our lives as normal. As the spirit shown by Mancunians of all faiths or none over the last few days has shown.

 

Why do you dismiss the success they have had over the last four years so easily?

 

Why do you dismiss the intelligence they receive from the Muslim community?

 

Show us some examples of your 'Lavvy Lefties and Islamic terrorist apologists who scream "racist" every time a Muslim is brought in for questioning.' There has certainly been none over the arrests made since the bombing.

 

No matter how hard the security forces work, no matter how much intelligence they receive, no matter how many plots they foil, some will get through. As the IRA chillingly crowed after they failed to kill Thatcher in the Brighton bombing "Today you were lucky. But you have to be lucky every time, we only have to be lucky once."

 

Using your logic, every single Irish citizen must have supported the atrocities committed by the IRA and INLA etc., in the 1960s, 70s, 80s and 90s; because there were never in all that time thousands of Irish people taking to the streets in protest against them.

 

Muslims in the UK and across the world have constantly and regularly condemned ISIS and other Islamic terrorist groups; online, in the press and, yes, on the streets.

 

When have thousands of British Muslims taken to the streets to demand Sharia law?

 

The Muslim community do not protect bombers or their associates, they report them; as the police and security services acknowledge.

 

Whilst i do not agree with all of Mehdi Hasan's points, his central argument is very true: Reactions to Manchester Bombing Show How Anti-Muslim Bigots Are “Useful Idiots” for ISIS

 

So for how much longer are you going to be doing ISIS's work for them?

 

How much longer will you aid them in spreading the hate and division they need to thrive outside their enclaves in Iraq and Syria?

 

Islam has been trying to conquer Europe for hundreds of years. It has been repulsed many times and now is no different.

 

You talk as if these terrorist attacks must simply be endured and all will be well. Tell that to the relatives of those slaughtered in the name of ISIS and Islam in Manchester.

 

Britain has had it's sovereign territory invaded before (1982) and we fought a campaign and won. Sitting still and doing nothing expecting the Muslim community to police itself is not an option, it doesn't work. The Islamic community in Britain has failed us and stronger action is necessary.

 

Obviously you wish to see the expansion of Islam in the UK and this is why you want us to do nothing more The UK is not an Islamic country although if we do nothing it will become one and God help us all then.

 

I and many fear for the future of our country as it becomes more and more Islamic.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/743825/1000-Muslims-close-London-streets-chant-Allahu-Akbar-demand-Islamic-caliphate

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3555/sharia-law-london

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_2SII

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/muslim-brick-lane-protest-muslim-2926404

 

[7by7]

Another hysterical post from you, Flustered; not worthy of a response, even if it contained anything of intelligence.

 

But two questions. You say

9 minutes ago, Flustered said:

 

Obviously you wish to see the expansion of Islam in the UK and this is why you want us to do nothing

Where have I said that I want to see the expansion of Islam in the UK?

 

Where have I said that I want the security services to do nothing?

 

(Not the 'you' implied by your use of the word 'us.' There is no way I would insult the security services by implying an association of you with them in any way)

 

BTW, I suggest that you search for and watch the complete Stacy Dooley documentary, rather than the edited highlights. She has a lot to say about one of your heroes, who she went to school with.

Edited May 26, 2017 by 7by7
Addendum

[Flustered]

I will give you one answer and this is from my heart.

 

I served 3 tours of Northern Island, I served in the Falklands Campaign, worked in Iraq (Mosul) in the Sadam overthrow year and in all of these I was never scared , Concerned yes but scared no.

 

I am not racist and both myself and my daughter are in mixed race marriages.

 

Simply going to Coventry or Bradford scares the hell out of me. I no longer feel safe in my own country for whom I put my life on the line many times. Islam scares me, Muslims scare me. We have no idea where the next terrorist attack will come from or how many innocents will be slaughtered in the name of Islam. Whenever I see a Muslim  wearing a niqab or burka I wonder if it is a female or a terrorist dressed as a woman. Muslims have driven me to this state of mind. 

 

I want to see whole Muslim communities taking to the street condemning these atrocities but that will never happen. I want to see the police allowed to detain suspects and question them without the restrictions currently placed upon them. I want to see anyone who is connected to any group supporting these terrorist in any way rounded up and if they are not born in the UK, immediately deported and I don't care where to. I want to see all sections of the Muslim population swear on the Quran an allegiance to the UK first and Islam second. However it will never happen.

 

This country is full of apologists and people who say we should expect this and just get on with our lives.

 

If I could find a country that banned Muslims I would happily go and live there.

 

Manchester is a wake up call and it looks like there is a large population who have not heard the alarm go off.

 

 

[nausea]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

'Question time' came from Salford last night, a muslim lady spoke about the problems in the muslim community. She spoke very eloquently and I think the rest of the muslims in the audience scoffed at her comments. It is worth listening to, you can forward the video to 4 minutes to catch what she says, just seconds before she speaks.

 

 

 

Now that was interesting. It seems that Saudi Wahhabism (called by some "the fountainhead of Islamic terrorism") is, indeed, "the elephant in the room" (and I mean in a broader poilitical sense) that no-one wants to address. Incidentally, had to laugh at the story about the guy who bought "Islam for Dummies" on his way to join Isis.