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British police says responding to serious incident at Manchester Arena

webfact

By webfact
in World News

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stevenl Star Member

stevenl

Posted
Posted
53 minutes ago, vogie said:

Please don't insult me, nobody mentioned security forces, if you want insults, can you read!

Yes, security forces were mentioned in the post you reacted to. You transformed that to intelligence officers.

 

Please read before posting.

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stevenl Star Member

stevenl

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That's the point

 

There have been NO apologetic posts

 

There have been a deluge of posts from APOLOGISTS stating it's just a few "bad eggs", it's because of British military action in the ME, the local imam warned the authorities, not many Muslims are cheering, the communities have responsibility. I'll spare you the "religion of peace" rhetoric.

You have talked yourself in the corner.

 

Oh, and if you claim 'why don't they warn the authorities', you are corrected that the authorities were warned by several groups in this case, and now you're trying to turn that against them. Really, really low.

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vogie Platinum Member

vogie

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Yes, security forces were mentioned in the post you reacted to. You transformed that to intelligence officers.

 

Please read before posting.

I did not mention security forces, my original post said intelligence officers, should a poster wish to change what what was original written to suit his own personal agenda, that is up to him and not me! And please refrain from personal insults, better still ignore my posts if they bother you so much!

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Grouse Senior Member

Grouse

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Sadly, sometimes, one has to stand up AND react to protect one's beliefs and freedoms from unwanted and unwarranted attack.

 

Unwarranted attack? ....so the UK can attack and be complicit in the deaths of millions of innocent muslims, but if they happen to fight back on our streets its unwarranted? ....the term wilfully ignorant springs to mind.

Millions of innocent Muslims? Murdered in cold blood by the UK? No, I don't think so, do you? Now's not the the time for hyperbole.

 

Fighting on the streets? Of Manchester?

 

Oh, you mean the 14 year old little girl Crusaders? Look, Saladin, just stop now.

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Grouse Senior Member

Grouse

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You have talked yourself in the corner.

 

Oh, and if you claim 'why don't they warn the authorities', you are corrected that the authorities were warned by several groups in this case, and now you're trying to turn that against them. Really, really low.

The apologists claim the murderer of children was reported previously. Good, the Muslim community therefore holds no responsibility and washes their hands of the issue.

 

You all understand what apologist means now? Good! Off to bed now!

 

Looking forward to a proper fat boy's breakfast tomorrow! 

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Flustered Senior Member

Flustered

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Really? An ex soldier who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles is scared to enter these cities?

 

I live in a town with an approximately 8% Muslim population. Am I scared to walk the streets? No. Concerned sometimes, particularly on a Friday and Saturday night. But that's not because of Muslims, it's because of the frequent fights breaking out between drunks!

 

You say you served in Northern Ireland. I didn't, but was almost a victim of the Guildford pub bombs; I was on my way to join friends who were already in the Horse and Groom when the bomb went off.

 

But I never thought "The Irish scare me. We have no idea where the next terrorist attack will come from or how many innocents will be slaughtered in the name of Irish Republicanism. Whenever I see an Irish person I wonder if it is a terrorist. The PIRA and INLA have driven me to this state of mind."

 

As shown many times in many threads, Muslims of all sects have taken to the streets, and elsewhere, to condemn terrorist violence. But why do you demand this of them when you did not demand it of others.

 

As I said before

 

As someone who says he served in Northern Ireland, you must know how effective internment without trial was when Thatcher introduced it there! You must know that it made martyrs of those detained. You must know it acted as a recruitment tool for the terrorists.

 

The police already have powers to arrest and detain suspects for longer than is the norm under the Prevention of Terrorism Act.

 

 Those non British citizens convicted of terrorist related crimes can be, and usually are, deported once they have served their sentence; if not before.

 

Those who are naturalised British citizens have taken the following oath: "I, [name], swear by Almighty God that, on becoming a British citizen, I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors according to law."

 

Those who are British by birth, like the rest of us, haven't. Maybe there is an argument for UK schools to follow the custom in the USA of pupils taking the oath everyday?

 

Do you demand ex IRA members take the oath? Remember that Adams and McGuinness never took their seats in Parliament because they refused to do so. An oath every Muslim MP has happily taken.

 

Apologists? Who are these apologists and what are they apologising for?

 

Yes, we should get on with our lives and not be cowed by these evil acts; just as we did during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s.

 

Be aware; yes. Be cautious; yes. Report suspicious objects or activities; yes.

 

But the message coming from Manchester since this appalling atrocity is that we will not let these scum effect our lives; we will carry on.

 

You may want to hide in a hole somewhere, but I am at one with the people of Manchester and will not let the terrorists stop me from living my life.

 

As an ex soldier, you must be familiar with the name Jabron Hashmi. I put it to you that he is far more representative of British Muslims than any of the scum involved in the Manchester bombing or any other act of Islamic terrorism or extremism.

 

OK, taking a break from mowing the lawns and enjoying the fantastic weather.

 

I see that a certain friend of ours is still busy typing away at his keyboard trying to defend his corner. Also, I must congratulate him for being so brave. Not scared? When you have served your country and actually been shot at both in battle and on the streets then you can comment on what not being scared is all about. Being scared is not knowing who is going to blow up the next concert or attack someone in the streets of London and try to cut his head off. In all of these cases the terrorists are Muslims so it is natural to view with caution anyone who is a Muslim. I do not see any Buddhists trying to cut people heads off in the UK or blowing up concert venues so I so not fear them.

 

Me moving? On the cards for about 2 years time. A lot of planning, sorting out of financial items, slotting in passport renewals and visas to suit said move. You are welcome to come up to Chiang Rai and discuss this face to face when I move.

 

Oh yes, apologists...Just the first few of many...

 

http://www.salon.com/2017/05/27/the-manchester-bombing-is-blowback-from-the-wests-disastrous-interventions-and-covert-proxy-wars_partner/

 

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2017/05/25/523126/UK-Manchester-terror-attack-US-intervention-Middle-East-destruction

 

https://off-guardian.org/2017/05/25/manchester-bomber-was-product-of-wests-libyasyria-intervention/

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/manchester-attack-jeremy-corbyn-general-election-2017-foreign-policy-wars-blame-barry-gardiner-today-a7756586.html

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Flustered Senior Member

Flustered

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, vogie said:

"I am surprised that you (?) and a few others who claim to have a military background insist upon totally ignoring the advise of security authorities who one would assume have a greater knowledge of counter terrorism."

 

Absolutely no way on God's Green earth that he was ever in or had anything to do with the military. That has to be the joke of the year.

 

 

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vogie Platinum Member

vogie

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

Absolutely no way on God's Green earth that he was ever in or had anything to do with the military. That has to be the joke of the year.

 

 

We can sleep peacefully tonight knowing these brave keyboard warriors are not fit to tie our DMS boots.

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Caps Explorer Member

Caps

Posted
Posted
Just now, vogie said:

We can sleep peacefully tonight knowing these brave keyboard warriors are not fit to tie our DMS boots.

He can do my putties though....hated doing those :cheesy:

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Flustered Senior Member

Flustered

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, vogie said:

His speach was not racial, he spoke the truth and most of what he said still rings true today. Many people think he would have made a better Prime Minister than Ted Heath.

As I said before. A brilliant man, pilloried by the PC brigade and Liberal Elite for his views. A few years later Bernie Grant spoke the same views and was hailed as a visionary by the same people. Hypocrites, the lot of them.

 

 

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7by7 Star Member

7by7

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Grouse said:

<snip>

Instead of excusing the actions of these dreadful people you (7by7) should be keeping quiet, keeping your heads below the parapet and hoping the storm blows over. I wouldn't bet on it!

Again you accuse me of excusing the actions of terrorists.

 

I asked you for evidence before; you have not provided it and instead made the same baseless, false and defamatory accusation.

 

All this does is prove that your arguments are built on sand and so you have to resort to such tactics when they are challenged.

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7by7 Star Member

7by7

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, vogie said:

And to call other posters on here ignoramuses just because they don't agree with what you say, is that within forum rules and etiquette?

How about calling someone an apologist for, justifier of, sympathiser with or excuser of terrorists?

 

A tactic much employed by people like you when you have nothing with which to counter an argument.

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7by7 Star Member

7by7

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Grouse said:

I am making no personal accusations. The accusations implied both jointly and accurate..

Really?

 

You have made personal accusations, you directly addressed the following remarks to me personally

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

Sorry you don't understand the subtleties of our language; you are so tied up with excusing Islamists

 

8 hours ago, Grouse said:

Instead of excusing the actions of these dreadful people you should be keeping quiet

 

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MaxYakov Platinum Member

MaxYakov

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, vogie said:

His speach was not racial, he spoke the truth and most of what he said still rings true today. Many people think he would have made a better Prime Minister than Ted Heath.

"But while, to the immigrant, entry to this country was admission to privileges and opportunities eagerly sought, the impact upon the existing population was very different. For reasons which they could not comprehend, and in pursuance of a decision by default, on which they were never consulted, they found themselves made strangers in their own country."

 

The Telegraph - Full Text of Enoch Powell's speech - Conservative Association meeting - April 20, 1968 [link]

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7by7 Star Member

7by7

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, Flustered said:

OK, taking a break from mowing the lawns and enjoying the fantastic weather.........

As you have failed to answer a single point I made to you in the post of mine you quoted, I see no point in responding to you until you do.

 

Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people in the UK today enjoyed both the F.A. and Scottish Cup Finals, an England v South Africa ODI and many other public events without fear. Millions of others have been out in public, and will be again over this holiday weekend.

 

I find it difficult to comprehend that someone who makes claims about his bravery while serving in the armed forces is frightened to do the same.

 

Have you considered seeking help? Maybe Combat Stress can help you with your PTSD anxiety.

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simple1 Star Member

simple1

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, vogie said:

This is what you said,

 

"We all deal with these issues in different ways, personally I do not believe , nor do the security forces,  it is constructive  to  post  propaganda of fear and hate or vilification of Muslims in general."

 

would it be fair to say that you were dismissing what the intelligence officers as propaganga?

I have already responded, but to assist you further I was answering your comment...

 

"Hardly something to gloss over, but as someone living in Australia, why should it bother you?"

 

Last time on your obsessive questioning....

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simple1 Star Member

simple1

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Grouse said:

By security services I assume you refer to the police (I doubt Box would say anything)

 

The Police of course want calm.

 

My dear mother used to say: "now don't over react", a typical high church response, bless her!

 

Sadly, sometimes, one has to stand up AND react to protect one's beliefs and freedoms from unwanted and unwarranted attack.

 

I am going back to the UK to vote. I am expecting some interesting evenings out.

No, in fact I'm referencing what the domestic intelligence heads talk to, past and current. I'm sure our  current political & police heads are also on the same page with this particular matter. i.e. vilification of Muslims in general and hate speech.

 

You may disagree, but I concur with the following article's assessment of those making extreme anti Muslim comments in the public domain as "useful idiots".

 

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/24/reactions-to-manchester-bombing-show-how-anti-muslim-bigots-are-useful-idiots-for-isis/

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Grouse Senior Member

Grouse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Again you accuse me of excusing the actions of terrorists.

 

I asked you for evidence before; you have not provided it and instead made the same baseless, false and defamatory accusation.

 

All this does is prove that your arguments are built on sand and so you have to resort to such tactics when they are challenged.

You have deliberately distorted my post by adding your own name in brackets. The "you" was plural and my statement was not aimed at you specifically. That IS against the forum rules.

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Grouse Senior Member

Grouse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Really?

 

You have made personal accusations, you directly addressed the following remarks to me personally

 

 

The first quote on English usage was indeed specific. However, the second was aimed at apologists generally.

 

You wouldn't be trying to frame me while I was asleep would you?

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Grouse Senior Member

Grouse

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

As you have failed to answer a single point I made to you in the post of mine you quoted, I see no point in responding to you until you do.

 

Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people in the UK today enjoyed both the F.A. and Scottish Cup Finals, an England v South Africa ODI and many other public events without fear. Millions of others have been out in public, and will be again over this holiday weekend.

 

I find it difficult to comprehend that someone who makes claims about his bravery while serving in the armed forces is frightened to do the same.

 

Have you considered seeking help? Maybe Combat Stress can help you with your PTSD anxiety.

That, sir, is out of order. You should apologise.

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Grouse Senior Member

Grouse

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, simple1 said:

No, in fact I'm referencing what the domestic intelligence heads talk to, past and current. I'm sure our  current political & police heads are also on the same page with this particular matter. i.e. vilification of Muslims in general and hate speech.

 

You may disagree, but I concur with the following article's assessment of those making extreme anti Muslim comments in the public domain as "useful idiots".

 

https://theintercept.com/2017/05/24/reactions-to-manchester-bombing-show-how-anti-muslim-bigots-are-useful-idiots-for-isis/

The Intercept, by Mehdi Hasan!

 

No, we've been there, done that. Turn the other cheek, carry on, just ignore them. This time it's a step too far.

 

The none stop posts from apologists is beginning to bore. I shall move on and read the Sunday papers.

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simple1 Star Member

simple1

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The Intercept, by Mehdi Hasan!

 

No, we've been there, done that. Turn the other cheek, carry on, just ignore them. This time it's a step too far.

 

The none stop posts from apologists is beginning to bore. I shall move on and read the Sunday papers.

In the article as there was is no attempt to diminish the responsibilities of those carrying out Islamist attacks which could be construed as "apologist". Oh well, carry on with your mind firmly closed.

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Grouse Senior Member

Grouse

Posted
Posted

This is the explosive of choice — called the “Mother of Satan”. 

 

 All of its ingredients are easily obtained, and the process of making it is simple and (relatively) stable. In other words, we cannot stop it from happening.

 

"Our future is one in which either we hyper-regulate many common chemicals, or we get used to the gentle sound of explosions and the wailing of victims. "

 

To make TATP more difficult to make we MUST make hydrogen peroxide a tightly controlled substance. (Acetone is too ubiquitous - nail varnish remover)

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

 

Note this can not be detected by airport explosive detectors....

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