Are Foreigners Really Welcome ?

[friend2]

This topic was earlier deleted by a moderator, so I have cleaned it up.

Hopefully to the satisfaction of the moderator

(My country of origin has been replaced with "my country" as I do not want to be identified, I come from an european

country)

It bothers me,that the visa rules and regulations here, are as stringent as they are.

What is the benefit of living here, other than the nice weather,cheap food and perhaps your tilak ?

Not much.

Even if I became a Thai citizen, I wouldn't get a pension, no subsidised hospital care, or any other benifit.

So what's the big deal about getting a visa ?

Getting a Visa is all based on your ability to "contribute" to Thai society

via your wallet, without getting anything back.

My Thai wife stayed with me in "My country" for 4 years, before we decided to move to Thailand.

The visa process for her in "My country" was difficult, BUT once it was taken care of, we could actually

plan our lifes ahead.

Especially since the fact that there were no restrictions for her to work.

And after 3 years, her visa automatically becomes permanent residency.

(don't even need to apply for it, and it doesn't cost a dime)

She had access to all the benefits of being a "My country" citizen, and all we had to show

was:

1. Our relationship was genuine

2. I could support her (based on family as a whole)

3. Having a place to stay

That's it !

I've been making a 1 year visa to stay here now for over 13 years !!

And i'm still required to continue with this paper shuffling sharade.

It's impossible for me to plan ahead, and god forbid if something would happen to my wife.

Then I wouldn't qualify anymore for the type of visa I have, and will be shown the door.

I don't know about you people, but being treated like a refugee once a year

has taken it's toll on at least me.

When I made my first one year visa (13 years ago), I was forced to pay 10.000 baht under the table,

to the highest ranking officer at my local immigration police.

Not because my papers weren't in order, but because they refused to give it to me otherwise !

That branch of the police is filled with the most distinguished and corrupt officials

you can find anywhere here in Thailand.

I really don't like those people.

Offcourse, I always smile and tries to look like "nice Joe" when I go there.

But that's only my "outwards me".(just like a Thai)

In theory I could apply for residency here, but I think it's a waste of time and money

(around 100.000 baht if you're married).

Not to mention the obscene and ridiculous amount of paperwork you need to produce + taxes.

It doesn't give me anything new that I don't already have with a 1 year visa, I have found out.

You still need a work permit, and pay for re-entry fee etc.

Also gets taken away from you if you leave the country for more than 365 days.

I think it's a total waste of time and money.

Mostly bothersome is you can't choose occupation,Like they are afraid of a big influx of westerners taking

6000 baht/month wagers !

It doesn't make sense, nor is it the real reason for the rules.

If you're that naive that you think these rules are for protecting the Thai worker, they ain't.

It's simply to force you to take a job, which ensures you pay loads of taxes.

And forget totally to pay taxes like the Thais do themself.

Instead you'll have to pay much more.

The minimum income your tax is based upon, is also different depending on where you come from.

For instance, an american will need a much higher income to qualify for a visa than a polish citizen.

Where's the logic in that ?

All of us are working and paying taxes from work done in Thailand, not the country we originate from !

If this isn't "racial profiling" what is ?

When I asked about this at the immigration, the answer was: "it's to ensure you can take care of your family"

Ya, right.

I then asked how much do you make per month ? (the immigration officer)

He replied: about 20.000 baht (probably not including kick backs)

Isn't that enough to support your family I asked ?

Reply: silence

Conclusion, it's not fair, you know it, they know it.

It shouldn't matter what occupation I have (or choose to have), nor how much tax I pay.

If i'm married,

The only thing that should matter is, if our combined salary/wealth enough to support the family?

Any financial status should obviously be based on the family as a whole, and not me alone.

What i'm trying to say here is, if you can't integrate into Thai society (no matter how long you stay),

abiding by the same rules as they do, you'll encounter problems in the long run.

Different from Europe and the US is,

None of the immigration laws here are tailored to help long staying foreigners become citizens, it's just

about squezzing out as much money from us as possible.(until death)

They don't care about you.

My family's economy is by no means bad, we have (my wife) a hundred rai of agricultural land, and own a commercial

estate in the 4 million baht range.

We get by just fine, but every year I have to go thru this degrading procedure, i'm sick of it !.

It's quite funny in comparison, "My country" has a much larger number of Thais living there, than there are

"My country men" living here.

Most of the Thais living in "My country" are not employeed.(hence they are not paying taxes)

They are supported by their spouses.

All of them have access to free healthcare and education.

It costs my government BIG money to take care of these people.

Despite this fact, their still allowed to stay.

Unlike Thailand, "My country" (and many other countries) has humanitarian laws, that does not distinguish

or treat you any different no matter where you come from !

How many Thais do you think would be staying there, if the same rules were applied, as is to us living here ?

I have access to none of the benefits my wife had in "My country".

I pay 10 times the taxes than a Thai does, and are not being a burden on society.

Offcourse rounding up all the Visa+work permit fees together with the taxes, what I actually pay, is

probably much more.

(squeeze the little farang piggy bank)

Still, it's not enough for me to be given the basic human right to stay indefinitively.

So why not apply for residency then you might ask ?

No way, with the rules and regulations they setup.

I'm feeling i'm paying enough as it is today thankyou.

To anyone thinking seriously about staying here longterm, my advice is, think twice.

If you treasure things like equality, freedom and having a firm grip of your life, go back

to your civilised country of origin !

The Thai authorities are so full of themself, thinking it's such a priviledge being here.

Is it ?

I'd be a hundred times better off in my own country !

It's only out of neccessity that i'm staying here for my wifes sake.

They should keep their greedy hands away from us making an honest living, just trying to get by.

Having westerners living here not only gives financial benifit to Thailand.

It also gives many of the Thais a chance to experience culture and language from elsewhere.

English language I might add, is something their in desperate need of to.

After living here for many years, it's funny to note, that most Thais that I speak to, take

for granted i'm being a permanent resident after such a long time.

When I explain for them it's not so, they wonder why ?

There's a small click of upper class Thais making the rules up there in Bangkok.

What they are doing is taking financial advantage of us foreigners, by stipulating laws

that wouldn't even be considered in developed countries.

Many times the Thai spouse is just as badly affected by these rules as is the foreigner.

If I thought what we need to endure is fair, i'd never write this to you.

Why is it, that the Thai government, is so good at making unfair laws ?

I don't see any light in the end of this tunnle.

The immigration laws here are obviously tailored to keep us out, from ever being

considered as citizens.

I'm not saying we should be able to stay without paying taxes.

All i'm saying is,it should be on equal terms.

Edited December 26, 2006 by friend2

[Vespa]

This is simply a reality of living here.

I realized this over 10 years ago when I would come here on vacation and wanted to be able to live in LOS.

Idealy it is best to come here with enough money / assets back home to "meet" the ever changing requirments.

The laws here are retarded and I am looking for a better alternative to Thailand.

[Fun2Fun]

If i'm married,

The only thing that should matter is, if our combined salary/wealth enough to support the family?

Any financial status should obviously be based on the family as a whole, and not me alone.

Good "news" for that one atleast, after Okt. 1 2006 changes the requirement is that its the joint income of you and your wife which counts

[pepi1]

Freind 2------So what are you saying?

[terryp]

In 34 years of being here; I 100% believe that Foreigners from any Country or Continent are not welcome….to stay long term.

The old saying of “leave your money on the table at Flight Arrivals then please go back to your County” is quite correct.

Thais are very xenophobic (especially the Western Educated ones…that I have met)…

I believe the British Government once said of “Siam”…...We Will not invade as they have nothing of use, and the people are too lackluster” ( I may be slightly wrong but something very similar to that)

[Naam]

What is the benefit of living here, other than the nice weather,cheap food and perhaps your tilak ? Not much.

it all depends on the individual situation my "friend". my country in Europe would tax the living beejesus out of me if i lived there (assuming the finance chap would know my exact income which is offshore).

i don't consider the weather nice as i have spent half of my life in tropical countries sweating. i enjoy thai food and that food is generally available at low cost but these are definitely not the reasons why i am living in thailand.

my main reasons are that i was able to build a home at a cost of US-dollars 650k which would have cost me anywhere in my country ~2.5 million dollars. on top of that i employ fulltime three locals (live-in housemaid, gardener and driver for my wife), something that would be completely out of my financial means in my home country.

best of all is that my total cost of living is not even 50% of the taxes i would pay at "home". so i grind my teeth, forego the snow, the icy roads in winter, the fog in november and several hundred TV-channels and whenever my wife comes home with credit card slips i tell her "don't worry! it's not our money we are spending, it's the taxman's money."

p.s. who or what is a "tilak"?

[friend2]

tilak = darling (phonetically perhaps not correct)

Some people say tirak.

In my case i'm referring to my wife.

Edited December 26, 2006 by friend2

[Naam]

so i grind my teeth, forego the snow, the icy roads in winter, the fog in november and several hundred TV-channels

i forgot to mention what i miss most in Thailand and that is a 100% reliable 6-mbit internet connection.

[jeebusjones]

I have to say I mostly agree with the OP. The message of Thailand's immigration policies is clear: "Give us your money and get out!"

The name "Land of Smiles" perhaps needs the footnote that they only smile when they're getting your money.

[baboon]

I feel very welcomed by the Thai joe public, many of whom think the visa regulations to be harsh and unfair [not to mention arbitory] to those who are married and simply want to settle down and live a quiet life here.

Sadly however, as the powers that be could not give a rats ass about their own citizenry, why would we be any different?

[friend2]

What is the benefit of living here, other than the nice weather,cheap food and perhaps your tilak ? Not much.

it all depends on the individual situation my "friend". my country in Europe would tax the living beejesus out of me if i lived there (assuming the finance chap would know my exact income which is offshore).

i don't consider the weather nice as i have spent half of my life in tropical countries sweating. i enjoy thai food and that food is generally available at low cost but these are definitely not the reasons why i am living in thailand.

my main reasons are that i was able to build a home at a cost of US-dollars 650k which would have cost me anywhere in my country ~2.5 million dollars. on top of that i employ fulltime three locals (live-in housemaid, gardener and driver for my wife), something that would be completely out of my financial means in my home country.

best of all is that my total cost of living is not even 50% of the taxes i would pay at "home". so i grind my teeth, forego the snow, the icy roads in winter, the fog in november and several hundred TV-channels and whenever my wife comes home with credit card slips i tell her "don't worry! it's not our money we are spending, it's the taxman's money."

p.s. who or what is a "tilak"?

I assume the house you built is on land owned by your wife.

What about if something would happen to her (god forbid),

Wouldn't that "complicate" your situation ?

[Vespa]

Sadly however, as the powers that be could not give a rats ass about their own citizenry, why would we be any different?

Very True. They milk this place like it is a cow , yet they choose to stiffle the hand that feeds their cash cow.

Where is the logic ?

[britmaveric]

You are a guest of the country and unfortunately you have to live by their ever changing rules.

[rcm]

You are a guest of the country and unfortunately you have to live by their ever changing rules.

This is very true , however, having been Guest to many other Countries in the past (even 3rd world countries- that were more straight forward) the OP made very valid points. " Having to live by their ever changing rules ".....i agree, but that really depends what rules they implemented....at the moment things aren't too bad , but they could be a lot better too.

Hopefully they become more "foreignerfriendly"in terms of Immigration/long term Visa Rules ....i certainly spend far less Money now here and don't intend to bring any in here until they know what they are doing ,which isn't the case now and wasn't the case during the last Government .

[Felt 35]

BINGO

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

You are a guest of the country and unfortunately you have to live by their ever changing rules.

the whole thing is a trade off. It's a hassle to deal with immigration but its also a good value to live here and the women situation is good. Now consider the distinct possibility that income levels rise along with China's/Vietnam/Singapore/Malaysia development and future prosperity and eventually Thailand may not be so cheap and the women will lose interest as we are not so wealthy by comparison.

Thankfully so far Thai government is incredibly adept at preventing investment confidence and prosperity for the masses.

Enjoy it all while it lasts.

[whopper]

I feel very welcomed by the Thai joe public, many of whom think the visa regulations to be harsh and unfair [not to mention arbitory] to those who are married and simply want to settle down and live a quiet life here.

Sadly however, as the powers that be could not give a rats ass about their own citizenry, why would we be any different?

that pretty much sums it up, don't take it personally.

[Naam]

"I assume the house you built is on land owned by your wife. What about if something would happen to her (god forbid), Wouldn't that "complicate" your situation ?"

*****

the land on which our home is built belongs to a company. it's the usual setup as my wife is not thai. of course, the present situation is complicated and will be even more complicated if the thai government decides to confiscate our land and tells us "take your homes and shove them up yours!". but that is something we evaluated very carefully and in all details before deciding to take the risk. we are well aware it's a gamble, but a gamble which is worth that risk.

i am not an optimist but have learned to deal with realities in my life. that is why consider the risk minimal (although existing) that we foreigners who are spending quite some money and provide employment for locals (even though it might be miniscule) are kicked out without the government having second thoughts and comes up with a reasonable solution.

[thaihome]

Having worked and lived in several 3rd world/developing countries, I find that Thailand is the only one that has to deal with a large number of foreigners that actually want to live there long term. This has caused the authorities to attempt, in probably sometimes clumsy ways, to adopt rules and processes that are intended to if not outright discourage you, at least make sure you are serious. From their perspective, the problems caused by people they cannot easily distinguish from you far out weigh anything you contribute.

It certainly puzzles them as many of their own citizens would give a lot to be able to immigrate to the countries you appear to abandoning.

TH

[camerata]

What is the benefit of living here, other than the nice weather,cheap food and perhaps your tilak ?

Not much.

Why would you expect there to be some benefit in living here? Thailand is not a country that has a policy to encourage immigration like, say, Canada or Australia. This is a point a lot of westerners miss. Thailand's situation is more like Japan's - it doesn't particularly want immigrants but it needs some foreigners to do specific jobs.

Even if I became a Thai citizen, I wouldn't get a pension, no subsidised hospital care, or any other benifit.

Why would you expect to get more benefits than a Thai? Would you trust a Thai pension fund? You could at least get 30 baht medical care. My company offers a provident fund.

I've been making a 1 year visa to stay here now for over 13 years !!

And i'm still required to continue with this paper shuffling sharade.

It's impossible for me to plan ahead, and god forbid if something would happen to my wife.

Then I wouldn't qualify anymore for the type of visa I have, and will be shown the door.

This is the reason most people apply for permanent residence.

In theory I could apply for residency here, but I think it's a waste of time and money

(around 100.000 baht if you're married).

Not to mention the obscene and ridiculous amount of paperwork you need to produce + taxes.

It doesn't give me anything new that I don't already have with a 1 year visa, I have found out.

Incorrect. Among other things (such as the right to apply for citizenship) it will give you the right to stay in Thailand forever, with or without a job, income or wife. PR would solve your problems and you'd have a good chance of getting it, yet you say it's a waste of time. Sure, it's not citizenship, but it's not meant to be!

Mostly bothersome is you can't choose occupation,Like they are afraid of a big influx of westerners taking

6000 baht/month wagers !

It doesn't make sense, nor is it the real reason for the rules.

The laws aren't made solely for westerners. There could easily be an influx of Indians or mainland Chinese looking for low-wage jobs.

When I asked about this at the immigration, the answer was: "it's to ensure you can take care of your family"

Ya, right.

I then asked how much do you make per month ? (the immigration officer)

He replied: about 20.000 baht (probably not including kick backs)

Isn't that enough to support your family I asked ?

Reply: silence

Conclusion, it's not fair, you know it, they know it.

I thought you said you acted like a Thai when you were at Immigration? You'll never get anywhere arguing with Immigration officers.

What i'm trying to say here is, if you can't integrate into Thai society (no matter how long you stay),

abiding by the same rules as they do, you'll encounter problems in the long run.

So there should be a different set of rules for foreigners? But isn't that what you're complaining about? Why wouldn't you want to integrate into Thai society? None of us can do it completely, but life is much easier if we try.

None of the immigration laws here are tailored to help long staying foreigners become citizens, it's

Thailand has never said it wants immigrants. It's a lot different from countries that do. But it isn't that difficult to get PR, which gives you the right to stay forever. Would you want to become a Thai citizen? I don't think I would.

I have access to none of the benefits my wife had in "My country".

Seriously... where does it say that all countries in the world must offer equal benefits? Countries are different. Since 80% of Thais are agricultural workers, relatively few people in Thailand pay income tax, so there isn't enough revenue for the government to provide pensions. Even the national health scheme couldn't be adequately financed.

So why not apply for residency then you might ask ?

No way, with the rules and regulations they setup.

I'm feeling i'm paying enough as it is today thankyou.

You seem to have set up a convenient excuse for not doing anything. PR would solve your immediate problems but you'd prefer to complain about Thailand than give it a shot. Well, your choice. As long as you have a victim mentality you'll never be happy in Thailand. I've been there myself, but I got over it with some positive thinking.

[Ijustwannateach]

It depends on what "welcome" means. I assume most persons who bring a reasonable amount of money and/or productivity to the table are welcome in most normal countries. Those who are going to be a drain of any kind of social welfare are not particularly welcome from a governmental perspective; it's just that your home country has to take you no matter what.

I'm guessing OP is letting off steam; but Camerata's post makes sense: if the hassles are so annoying to you, then maybe the fee for PR is worth it for you after all. I'll consider it myself if I'm here a few more years.

"Steven"

[richard10365]

I agree with the OP. I also think that comming here was my choice. Good or bad, whatever happens, it's my fault.

[Heng]

Thailand has never said it wants immigrants.

Seriously... where does it say that all countries in the world must offer equal benefits? Countries are different.

You seem to have set up a convenient excuse for not doing anything. PR would solve your immediate problems but you'd prefer to complain about Thailand than give it a shot. Well, your choice. As long as you have a victim mentality you'll never be happy in Thailand. I've been there myself, but I got over it with some positive thinking.

Pretty good summary... although I think a lot of folks would rather continue and complain.

[Naam]

"This is the reason most people apply for permanent residence"

*****

camerata,

several weeks ago i studied your "guide to permanent residence" with great interest and admired the logical built-up of your explanations. however, i humbly beg to differ with your statement "it isn't that difficult to get PR". in this respect i have no other choice than siding with "friend" who claims that the application for permanent residence requires a ridiculous amount of paperwork (amongst other hassles).

anyway, i might go for it once i qualify and i thank you already now for the excellent work (which i downloaded) you have presented.

it might sound ridiculous but even trying hard neither my wife nor me have managed to acquire the ability making ourselves understood with simple thai phrases and basic knowledge of thai is one of the requirements to obtain permanent residence. it's even more curious as both of us can fluently converse in half a dozen languages and we use at least three languages on a daily basis. perhaps the fact that both of us are not spring chicken anymore reduced our ability to learn an additional language.

[camerata]

in this respect i have no other choice than siding with "friend" who claims that the application for permanent residence requires a ridiculous amount of paperwork (amongst other hassles).

Well, let's face it, it's difficult to do anything in Thailand without some hassle and paperwork. In the case of PR, your employer provides 90% of it. You can pay a lawyer to do the running around for you. All you have to do is provide your personal stuff. In Bangkok, I found Immigration helpful to the point that they seemed to want me to get PR - not at all the trial I expected it to be. For example, when it turned out my criminal record check had been stamped with a signature (instead of signed with a pen), which made it look like a photocopy, the officer simply went to her boss and had it okayed.

it might sound ridiculous but even trying hard neither my wife nor me have managed to acquire the ability making ourselves understood with simple thai phrases and basic knowledge of thai is one of the requirements to obtain permanent residence.

If you can understand Thai you might do well in the 10-question test. It's multiple answer so you can hardly get less than 25% right anyway. But if you lose points on the Thai language you just have to gain them on something else.

I put off applying for PR for 10 years because I thought it was more difficult than it was and that there was little chance of getting it if not married to a Thai. I'm not saying it's easy, but under the present system you only lose 7,500 baht plus expenses if you don't get it. You can always try again.

[LivinLOS]

How does an under 50 not working non married to a Thai even get on the PR ladder tho ??

I would put the effort for PR in, but I am not married and will not work again hopefully. I am 33 and so a long long way from the retirement age.

[Naam]

"Well, let's face it, it's difficult to do anything in Thailand without some hassle and paperwork. In the case of PR, your employer provides 90% of it. You can pay a lawyer to do the running around for you."

*****

thanks for the encouragement. i am quite used to use a lawyer respectively an agent doing the running around and until now i was quite happy with the services provided. as far as PR is concerned my impression was that one has to do each and everything personally. by the way, my wife and me are on a retiree visa, i.e. no employer who might provide any necessary paperwork.

[rahyumdee]

This topic was earlier deleted by a moderator, so I have cleaned it up.

Hopefully to the satisfaction of the moderator

(My country of origin has been replaced with "my country" as I do not want to be identified, I come from an european

country)

It bothers me,that the visa rules and regulations here, are as stringent as they are.

What is the benefit of living here, other than the nice weather,cheap food and perhaps your tilak ?

Not much.

Even if I became a Thai citizen, I wouldn't get a pension, no subsidised hospital care, or any other benifit.

So what's the big deal about getting a visa ?

Getting a Visa is all based on your ability to "contribute" to Thai society

via your wallet, without getting anything back.

My Thai wife stayed with me in "My country" for 4 years, before we decided to move to Thailand.

The visa process for her in "My country" was difficult, BUT once it was taken care of, we could actually

plan our lifes ahead.

Especially since the fact that there were no restrictions for her to work.

And after 3 years, her visa automatically becomes permanent residency.

(don't even need to apply for it, and it doesn't cost a dime)

She had access to all the benefits of being a "My country" citizen, and all we had to show

was:

1. Our relationship was genuine

2. I could support her (based on family as a whole)

3. Having a place to stay

That's it !

I've been making a 1 year visa to stay here now for over 13 years !!

And i'm still required to continue with this paper shuffling sharade.

It's impossible for me to plan ahead, and god forbid if something would happen to my wife.

Then I wouldn't qualify anymore for the type of visa I have, and will be shown the door.

I don't know about you people, but being treated like a refugee once a year

has taken it's toll on at least me.

When I made my first one year visa (13 years ago), I was forced to pay 10.000 baht under the table,

to the highest ranking officer at my local immigration police.

Not because my papers weren't in order, but because they refused to give it to me otherwise !

That branch of the police is filled with the most distinguished and corrupt officials

you can find anywhere here in Thailand.

I really don't like those people.

Offcourse, I always smile and tries to look like "nice Joe" when I go there.

But that's only my "outwards me".(just like a Thai)

In theory I could apply for residency here, but I think it's a waste of time and money

(around 100.000 baht if you're married).

Not to mention the obscene and ridiculous amount of paperwork you need to produce + taxes.

It doesn't give me anything new that I don't already have with a 1 year visa, I have found out.

You still need a work permit, and pay for re-entry fee etc.

Also gets taken away from you if you leave the country for more than 365 days.

I think it's a total waste of time and money.

Mostly bothersome is you can't choose occupation,Like they are afraid of a big influx of westerners taking

6000 baht/month wagers !

It doesn't make sense, nor is it the real reason for the rules.

If you're that naive that you think these rules are for protecting the Thai worker, they ain't.

It's simply to force you to take a job, which ensures you pay loads of taxes.

And forget totally to pay taxes like the Thais do themself.

Instead you'll have to pay much more.

The minimum income your tax is based upon, is also different depending on where you come from.

For instance, an american will need a much higher income to qualify for a visa than a polish citizen.

Where's the logic in that ?

All of us are working and paying taxes from work done in Thailand, not the country we originate from !

If this isn't "racial profiling" what is ?

When I asked about this at the immigration, the answer was: "it's to ensure you can take care of your family"

Ya, right.

I then asked how much do you make per month ? (the immigration officer)

He replied: about 20.000 baht (probably not including kick backs)

Isn't that enough to support your family I asked ?

Reply: silence

Conclusion, it's not fair, you know it, they know it.

It shouldn't matter what occupation I have (or choose to have), nor how much tax I pay.

If i'm married,

The only thing that should matter is, if our combined salary/wealth enough to support the family?

Any financial status should obviously be based on the family as a whole, and not me alone.

What i'm trying to say here is, if you can't integrate into Thai society (no matter how long you stay),

abiding by the same rules as they do, you'll encounter problems in the long run.

Different from Europe and the US is,

None of the immigration laws here are tailored to help long staying foreigners become citizens, it's just

about squezzing out as much money from us as possible.(until death)

They don't care about you.

My family's economy is by no means bad, we have (my wife) a hundred rai of agricultural land, and own a commercial

estate in the 4 million baht range.

We get by just fine, but every year I have to go thru this degrading procedure, i'm sick of it !.

It's quite funny in comparison, "My country" has a much larger number of Thais living there, than there are

"My country men" living here.

Most of the Thais living in "My country" are not employeed.(hence they are not paying taxes)

They are supported by their spouses.

All of them have access to free healthcare and education.

It costs my government BIG money to take care of these people.

Despite this fact, their still allowed to stay.

Unlike Thailand, "My country" (and many other countries) has humanitarian laws, that does not distinguish

or treat you any different no matter where you come from !

How many Thais do you think would be staying there, if the same rules were applied, as is to us living here ?

I have access to none of the benefits my wife had in "My country".

I pay 10 times the taxes than a Thai does, and are not being a burden on society.

Offcourse rounding up all the Visa+work permit fees together with the taxes, what I actually pay, is

probably much more.

(squeeze the little farang piggy bank)

Still, it's not enough for me to be given the basic human right to stay indefinitively.

So why not apply for residency then you might ask ?

No way, with the rules and regulations they setup.

I'm feeling i'm paying enough as it is today thankyou.

To anyone thinking seriously about staying here longterm, my advice is, think twice.

If you treasure things like equality, freedom and having a firm grip of your life, go back

to your civilised country of origin !

The Thai authorities are so full of themself, thinking it's such a priviledge being here.

Is it ?

I'd be a hundred times better off in my own country !

It's only out of neccessity that i'm staying here for my wifes sake.

They should keep their greedy hands away from us making an honest living, just trying to get by.

Having westerners living here not only gives financial benifit to Thailand.

It also gives many of the Thais a chance to experience culture and language from elsewhere.

English language I might add, is something their in desperate need of to.

After living here for many years, it's funny to note, that most Thais that I speak to, take

for granted i'm being a permanent resident after such a long time.

When I explain for them it's not so, they wonder why ?

There's a small click of upper class Thais making the rules up there in Bangkok.

What they are doing is taking financial advantage of us foreigners, by stipulating laws

that wouldn't even be considered in developed countries.

Many times the Thai spouse is just as badly affected by these rules as is the foreigner.

If I thought what we need to endure is fair, i'd never write this to you.

Why is it, that the Thai government, is so good at making unfair laws ?

I don't see any light in the end of this tunnle.

The immigration laws here are obviously tailored to keep us out, from ever being

considered as citizens.

I'm not saying we should be able to stay without paying taxes.

All i'm saying is,it should be on equal terms.

Uh, could you repeat that?

[Jingthing]

I think we are mostly uninvited guests.

And you know what they say about the smell of guests after a few days?

My attitude is as long as I can get my passport stamped legally and they don't shoot me, I plan on staying. Its not healthy to care too much about what others think of you.

Edited December 26, 2006 by Jingthing

[Krub]

The OP gives a good description of the immigration situation in Thailand.

You know it when you decide to stay long term (for all sorts of reasons) and there is no need to feel cheated 10 years on.....

Looking at the numbers of long term 'immigrants' it looks like Thailand has plenty of appeal to counter balance the uncertainties which is also part of its charm.