New Teachers

[tonray]

I got a call from a school I taught at 2 years ago, they are in dire straights as it seems that not even 2 full weeks into the new year, 2 teachers have already quit. I was trying to be as polite as I could because I really like this particular Thai teacher/admin, but she could not understand that standing in front of 50 screaming kids in a blisteringly hot classroom is not something that most of these young 'gap year' grads from America or the UK can handle. It is a tough job and unless you start raising salaries to attract a more professional level of teacher with a sense of responsibility, you will rinse and repeat this year after year. Last year they used an agency (which is why I did not come back) which she said was just as bad and had teachers resorting to fisticuffs in week 1, ending in the firing of one and the early disappearance of the other. Oh yeah, she asked me if I could fill in for awhile....I just stopped laughing and this was yesterday afternoon that I heard from her....ha ha.

 

This year is shaping up to be a banner one, I notice many more schools trying to fill positions with any warm body and we are already 2 weeks into the new term...not a great sign. I am so glad to be taking a break this year, hoping I can make that permanent. Good luck to all and to you young guys, get some backbone and stick it out for at least a term, the grass is NOT greener on the other side, they are all basically the same at least in the government school realm.

Edited May 27, 2017 by tonray

[thequietman]

Yes, it's the same in the north-east. They are all scrambling for teachers. Funny thing though, they can pay an agency 45,000 baht for a teacher but can't pay the teacher directly, the same salary. Go figure ! 

[BruceMangosteen]

58 minutes ago, tonray said:

Good luck to all and to you young guys, get some backbone and stick it out for at least a term, the grass is NOT greener on the other side, they are all basically the same at least in the government school realm.

Hi tonray. I also received two messages from a former school. They have three positions where Native English Speakers are required. Required is a strange word, more or less "as advertised" to the parents. One slot is filled with a NES. Second slot, non-NES from Russia, third slot vacant. The blame for this is placed on the foreigners, not the school administration's discrimination practices or refusal to pay decent wages.It's funny to you and I but a sad display and experience for the students. God Bless You and OO. 

[BruceMangosteen]

On a somewhat related note, schools are not spending money on things like air conditioners, projectors, not even new fans in the rooms, dare I mention desks? What's going on ? God Bless You and OO.

[tonray]

29 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

On a somewhat related note, schools are not spending money on things like air conditioners, projectors, not even new fans in the rooms, dare I mention desks? What's going on ? God Bless You and OO.

The Director's Mercedes doesn't detail itself you know !

[stubuzz]

The schools do not understand that you cannot pay an experienced, qualified teacher the same as a backpacker on a gap year.

[melvinmelvin]

21 minutes ago, stubuzz said:

The schools do not understand that you cannot pay an experienced, qualified teacher the same as a backpacker on a gap year.

 

how much do they pay a backpacker?

 

and how much do they pay a well qualified experienced Thai science teacher or Thai language teacher?

 

(just to have some perspective on this)

 

and in a full teaching position, per week; how many working hours and how many hours in class?

 

 

[Rhys]

Well, this opens it up to all other teachers who want a job... so be it.

[BruceMangosteen]

55 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

how much do they pay a backpacker?

 

and how much do they pay a well qualified experienced Thai science teacher or Thai language teacher?

 

(just to have some perspective on this)

 

and in a full teaching position, per week; how many working hours and how many hours in class?

 

 

The NES'ing backpacker, basically 25-35 K Baht a month, depending on location and if an agency involved. Housing if included of little actual value money wise.

 

Experienced and qualified Thai teacher 45-65 K a month, but you most add in Credit Union benefits as well as Civil Service benefits. This also is 12 months.

 

Perspective is more about job stability and security as well as other benefits such as upgraded health care and the aforementioned retirement.

 

Hours aka contact 16-22. The Thai staff while supposed to be on time and perform extra duties, can and do leave campus when done. 

 

God Bless You and OO.

[melvinmelvin]

7 minutes ago, BruceMangosteen said:

The NES'ing backpacker, basically 25-35 K Baht a month, depending on location and if an agency involved. Housing if included of little actual value money wise.

 

Experienced and qualified Thai teacher 45-65 K a month, but you most add in Credit Union benefits as well as Civil Service benefits. This also is 12 months.

 

Perspective is more about job stability and security as well as other benefits such as upgraded health care and the aforementioned retirement.

 

Hours aka contact 16-22. The Thai staff while supposed to be on time and perform extra duties, can and do leave campus when done. 

 

God Bless You and OO.

 

thank you

 

pretty OK then for a qualified Thai teacher, not bad at all

 

and for professional qualified farangs they offer the backpacker salary? wasn't that what was said above?

 

 

[KhonKaenKowboy]

I almost started  similar thread.  I was wondering if it is just a shift to FB, for job listings, but unlikely.  It absolutely seems like there are many more openings for jobs for the second week of school...the usual few replacements for runners, but so many that were never filled to begin with.  A month ago, things seemed pretty much the same, but now, big differences.  Perhaps, it is a greatly improved job market in the US.  Might have more to do with visa crackdowns.  Visitor numbers keep going up, but the dynamics of coming here, and getting a teaching job have changed a lot.  It would be somewhat difficult to come on a TV and putt around for months looking, half heartedly looking for work.  If they were smart enough to save a nice 5 or 10 thousands Dollar cushion, would they really be dumb enough to squander it on airfare, TEFL, hotels, visas...all for a 150 THB per hour job, that is going to greatly curtail their social lives?  I have never met TonRay but I know we are both early 50s on retirement visas/extensions and like to teach.  But, as I have said before, nothing remotely tempting as far as giving up my visa to work at a circus.  Do you save money by eating fishballs for free for lunch?  A few THB but there are many expenses involved with working, especially as a teacher.  We keep getting the comparisons to Thai teachers, but more and more, it seems the Thai Ed degree holders are almost sub-human, or maybe it is just deep social problems, but they sure aren't mainstream Thai society.  Personally, I would work for 35K per month...but...I am not doing Immigration, licensing BS, or other paperwork nonsense, that is what their staff is for.  .  If that idiotic culture course is required, it is paid for and on their time.  No more than four classes per day, and would put in regular office hours, but not be an office monkey.  

 

I won't be holding my breath for change, but possibly because the guy they just hired smells like he lives in an elephant cage.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2017 by KhonKaenKowboy

[tonray]

12 minutes ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

I almost started  similar thread.  I was wondering if it is just a shift to FB, for job listings, but unlikely.  It absolutely seems like there are many more openings for jobs for the second week of school...the usual few replacements for runners, but so many that were never filled to begin with.  A month ago, things seemed pretty much the same, but now, big differences.  Perhaps, it is a greatly improved job market in the US.  Might have more to do with visa crackdowns.  Visitor numbers keep going up, but the dynamics of coming here, and getting a teaching job have changed a lot.  It would be somewhat difficult to come on a TV and putt around for months looking, half heartedly looking for work.  If they were smart enough to save a nice 5 or 10 thousands Dollar cushion, would they really be dumb enough to squander it on airfare, TEFL, hotels, visas...all for a 150 THB per hour job, that is going to greatly curtail their social lives?  I have never met TonRay but I know we are both early 50s on retirement visas/extensions and like to teach.  But, as I have said before, nothing remotely tempting as far as giving up my visa to work at a circus.  Do you save money by eating fishballs for free for lunch?  A few THB but there are many expenses involved with working, especially as a teacher.  We keep getting the comparisons to Thai teachers, but more and more, it seems the Thai Ed degree holders are almost sub-human, or maybe it is just deep social problems, but they sure aren't mainstream Thai society.  Personally, I would work for 35K per month...but...I am not doing Immigration, licensing BS, or other paperwork nonsense, that is what their staff is for.  .  If that idiotic culture course is required, it is paid for and on their time.  No more than four classes per day, and would put in regular office hours, but not be an office monkey.  

 

I won't be holding my breath for change, but possibly because the guy they just hired smells like he lives in an elephant cage.

 

 

I could not have said it better myself. Excellent ...with one exception...will be 59 in a couple of months...that is why I am thinking last year was my final rodeo. I have been put out to pasture....

[KhonKaenKowboy]

54, 59, 89....all too old in their very poor eyesight.  Maybe it just takes too much effort to steal from us wise, old men.  My parents could still do a better job than most of them, and they drive a lot better, too.

[tonray]

2 minutes ago, KhonKaenKowboy said:

54, 59, 89....all too old in their very poor eyesight.  Maybe it just takes too much effort to steal from us wise, old men.  My parents could still do a better job than most of them, and they drive a lot better, too.

Yeah...the joke is guys like us are the only ones showing up every day...3 years and with the exception of non-B visa runs....never missed a beat. Screw them...I am glad I was able to help some great kids and I really had fun at times...last year I did Romeo and Juliet with my M-5s....the most fun and engaging week I have had as a teacher. But new challenges await...such as...do I get up at 9 or 10 tomorrow...ha ha

[Scott]

I assist with the hiring for a number of schools in several provinces.   I usually start getting resume/CV's well before the end of the term.   At a minimum, I get inquiries about specific schools, primarily from people who wish to relocate to those areas.   This past year there was an exceptional drought when it came to those looking for jobs.

 

I tried to advise the schools that they might want to re-think the situation in terms of some of the teachers that they were planning on terminating (not renewing the contract).   Some of the schools are very quick to terminate anyone seen as causing a problem, even though they might be a good teacher.   They didn't heed the advice and when school started, they had a lot of unfilled vacancies.  

 

The teachers who were not renewed were quickly hired by other schools.  

 

Over the years, where teachers came from could be roughly correlated with the economic conditions in the home country.   When the economic situation was bad, the number of applicants from that country rose.   It wasn't exact, but it could be predicted in part on economic factors.

 

The other group that has largely disappeared are the visa runners who provided a pool of applicants and were willing to work when economics dictated.  

 

The Thai admin does not get the general idea that when you have a reasonably good teacher, try to hang on to them.   The fact that they occasionally kick up a bit of a fuss over rules/regulations at a school is to be expected and not an excuse to terminate.  

 

Now, it's not a matter of good or bad teachers; it's a matter of no teachers.  

[otherstuff1957]

I teach at a bilingual school in Bangkok.  The school pays fairly well - 40K to start and annual raises of 5 - 8%.  There are several long-timers (including myself) who are well paid and largely content with our jobs. 

 

The school policy is to have only NES teachers teaching English and NES or fluent English speakers teaching other subjects.  Over the years we have had teachers from US, UK, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, NZ, France and India and Thailand (with the last 3 teaching Science or Math).  This year, a couple of teachers went home, a couple more finished their PGCEi's and were snapped up by International Schools, 4 went back to Grad school in their home countries and a couple didn't have their contracts renewed. 

 

Needless to say, the school has been struggling to get replacements!  In addition to the usual bunch of NES Unversity graduates, we have hired a very mixed group of Indians (from India and S. Africa) a Nigerian and a non-degreed Englishman.  I am not bringing this up because I have any problem with non-white teachers, but rather to point out how thin on the ground the usual NES types must be for our Thai admin to accept this very international bunch!

[KhonKaenKowboy]

Were they asked if they could sing or play an instrument on the application??

[DavisH]

20 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

thank you

 

pretty OK then for a qualified Thai teacher, not bad at all

 

and for professional qualified farangs they offer the backpacker salary? wasn't that what was said above?

 

 

65K is the sort of salary a civil servant gets who is close to retirement (and has done a good job and progressed up the ladder. A school director would get that sort of money. I don't think many regular teachers would be on that. Not all teachers are civil servants (look at the ruckus caused by temporary nurses who don't have civil service status).  They get a lot less perks and yearly increments. 

 

There are a lot of reasons for the lack of native speaking foreign teachers now:

1) more stringent requirements for teacher's licences. Long term teachers these days are generally have the full teaching licence; other's have had to leave or find non-school employment.

2) changing salary living cost ratio. Salaries haven't increased in line with living costs.

3) tough conditions in some schools but it's always been like that...

4) use of agencies as a result of the above....but short term inexperienced teachers are used, just to have a white face in the classroom. They often don't last long and cause inconsistencies in student learning.

 

[BruceMangosteen]

47 minutes ago, DavisH said:

65K is the sort of salary a civil servant gets who is close to retirement (and has done a good job and progressed up the ladder. A school director would get that sort of money. I don't think many regular teachers would be on that. Not all teachers are civil servants (look at the ruckus caused by temporary nurses who don't have civil service status).  They get a lot less perks and yearly increments. 

 

 

A Director at any reasonably sized school would get a lot more than 65K. He/she has been promoted to that position as a result of many years of service. I've personally seen a number of Thai teachers pay stubs and they do in fact represent a diverse pay range but I was just answering the members question. For example, Thai teachers without a TL hired sort of like foreigners, yearly contracts, were paid 15,000. Baht a month. Chinese teachers BTW were paid much less than Filipino's to teach Chinese, which I found strange because the Chinese work hard, know the subject, and are loyal and subservient as opposed to many Filipino's who don't know the subject, don't speak English very well, you figure it out...just strange to me . Overall however as we seem to agree, the trend and desire is to back off hiring NES's and instead focus on the costs. The financial relationship between the agency and the Director has always been talked about but no proof. The experiment hasn't worked, students come out of high school unable to speak English, even in the MEP and EP programs.This post is about Government schools in the Kingdom. God Bless You and OO.

Edited May 28, 2017 by BruceMangosteen

[KhonKaenKowboy]

I read only 25% of those under 15 know how to swim.  Who doesn't live near water in LOS?  Talk about misguided...sheeesh.  I thought water proofing your kid comes before they wipe their own arse....oh, they don't do that, either.