Living In A Moo Baan (Residential Village)

[Halfaboy]

Unfortunately there seems to be not something like a Condo Act for Villages / Moo Baans. 

[jingjo01]

9 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

You need to be more forceful. Lawyers, Land Office, publicity. Make the developer feel very uncomfortable.

Village has only 25 villas. More than half are absent Owners. Only about three permanent residents. No one seems interested and who would pay for the matters you suggested ? Foreign developer has been approached many times but just refuses point blank.

 

[jingjo01]

2 minutes ago, Halfaboy said:

Unfortunately there seems to be not something like a Condo Act for Villages / Moo Baans. 

There is. Its called the Land Development Act . Copy in English already provided to the foreign developer but ignored.

[jingjo01]

34 minutes ago, jingjo01 said:

Thank you to all the respondents to my post, however not one answered my question.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough. Some respondents sidetracked the discussion and it went off the rails.

So I will try and be blunt and to the point again :

1.I live and own a villa in a small gated community.

2.There is no communal swimming pool. Each villa has its own garden and private pool.

3.The development has been completed but the foreign developer has not handed over management to the homeowners.

4. The same developer will not produce any financial reports pertaining to the management of the estate.

5. The annual maintenance fees are high because of a compulsory component which requires all owners to use the developers staff to service their private gardens and pools.

I have lived in other gated communities here in Thailand and homeowners always arranged for their own gardening and private pool maintenance, hence lower annual maintenance fees.

I repeat my question : Are any other forum members (who live in gated communities and have private pools and gardens) forced to pay developers (or homeowner committees) to attend to their private pool and and garden ?  I am trying to get a feel for this practice to see how widespread it is, as I feel the practice is unjust.

Just answer YES or NO. Thank you.

 

 

[tomwct]

As long as the developer is managing your moo ban properly don't rock the boat. If the fees are too high negotiate a lower fee, but

if you have a moo ban with just security and a little landscaping like my moo ban, I'm sure the developer would turn it over to the homeowners. I pay 300 baht per month, which I gladly pay for security, cctv cameras, and general upkeep. About 90% of the homeowners pay and the other 10% will pay when they try and transfer their property.

[jingjo01]

30 minutes ago, tomwct said:

As long as the developer is managing your moo ban properly don't rock the boat. If the fees are too high negotiate a lower fee, but

if you have a moo ban with just security and a little landscaping like my moo ban, I'm sure the developer would turn it over to the homeowners. I pay 300 baht per month, which I gladly pay for security, cctv cameras, and general upkeep. About 90% of the homeowners pay and the other 10% will pay when they try and transfer their property.

Did you read my word "compulsory" ? The developer will not negotiate a lower maintenance fee ! The developer also refuses to produce financial reports on the village operations. The developer has a staff of approx 11 people to maintain only 25 villas as they are needed to maintain our gardens and swimming pools ,which I personally do not want. The village is complete but the foreign developer will not handover to the owners.

Edited June 5, 2017 by jingjo01

[MrJohnson]

Given the very low capital gain on property in Thailand, combined with very poor or almost non-existent planning controls. I really believe it is best to rent. Even in a Moo Baan it is possible for residents to open bars and restaurants in the community itself and there are plenty of examples of that. Inevitably they decline as more and more residents refuse to pay common area fees. It is very common. Rent and if/when things start to decline simply pack up and move on.

 

[MrJohnson]

Get some legal advice. You may options through the courts.

Sorry, no actual experience with this. The TV lawyers might shed some light but an actual lawyer might be more useful.

[jeab1980]

I say again a moo baan is not a village its a housing estate or comunity.

Taken from google

"For many westerners living in Bangkok, after a few years living in an apartment, a move to a moo baan is the obvious next step. For anyone living outside Thailand, a moo baan is a gated housing community, complete with security guards."

with regards to the question i have read many horror stories and seen for my own eyes these communities go from bad to worse. Little or no maintanance. Surley the op researched a little before buying into this kind of back door semi leashold, freehold properties. All looks great when first opens very soon going down hill. Then you get the bitching oh there not paying for this or oh look hes done that with his house

A typical housing estate. Or as my old man would have put it slums of the future. Yes before the well our estate is great and this that and the other happens. There are obviously some that work and everybody pays for the upkeep. Then plainly as the OP eludes to there are those that dont. My and i underline MY thoughts are I would never live in an estate comunity call it what you will moo baan where i was gated in living so close to others. But each to there own.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, jingjo01 said:

Foreign developer has been approached many times but just refuses point blank.

Ah... and there it is. Probably another quality development by a 'quality English builder'.

 

Or Norwegian...

 

Being forced to use their contractors to service your private pool and lawns cannot by any stretch of the imagination, be legal. However, the fact that this shyster is doing it probably means that it may be easily done and a fairly common practice elsewhere depending on the size of the developers balls, his connections, etc..

 

Lawyer up?

[NanLaew]

48 minutes ago, jingjo01 said:

Did you read my word "compulsory" ? The developer will not negotiate a lower maintenance fee ! The developer also refuses to produce financial reports on the village operations. The developer has a staff of approx 11 people to maintain only 25 villas as they are needed to maintain our gardens and swimming pools ,which I personally do not want. The village is complete but the foreign developer will not handover to the owners.

We have read the word 'compulsory' several times now, with and without your added emphasis.

 

Now a question for you, how is this compulsory fee invoiced and how is it paid? If it is included in any way with what you are paying/have paid, be it lump sum or yearly, then suck it up, deny them access and bring in your own team as and when needed. If it is a monthly bill, stop paying the bill, deny them access and bring in your own team as and when needed.

 

Another question. This is your villa and your lawns and your pools. Do they have unrestricted access? If not, as above.

 

If this is a rant about claiming back any monies paid already, fuhgeddaboutit.

 

Caveat emptor.

Edited June 5, 2017 by NanLaew

[portroyal]

First, make sure it is really a gated community

Sometimes the developer let you think it is gated, but does not pay the taxes associated

It happened to us, and now we know the road is public

[peterb17]

OP

 

You do not mention exactly how much you are paying in this compulsory fee.

 

Maybe others who pay for their own gardener or pool guy could indicate whether the fee was reasonable or not.

 

I don't have a pool ( they are a pain) but give my gardener 2000 a month for half an hour five days a week . It's enough to tidy the garden - cut the lawns etc. 

 

 

[sfokevin]

What does your purchase contract say about this compulsory charge?

 

if it's in your contract and you signed it you would seem to be stuck 

 

How much is this monthly charge?

[peterb17]

Oh dear 

 

The OP got into a bit of a strop as we could not answer with a simple yes or no.

 

Then when asked a reasonable question of how much these compulsory are- i.e. Is it a suitable charge for the services received -silence .

 

Perhaps the OP has not lived in the Kingdom too long ( may not be the case of course) .

 

The chances of winning against a developer , even if the law is on your side , are minimal.

 

its just a case of getting on with life- it's unfair - otherwise it takes over your life in lawyers, expense, court cases etc etc 

[KittenKong]

2 hours ago, jingjo01 said:

Village has only 25 villas. More than half are absent Owners. Only about three permanent residents. No one seems interested and who would pay for the matters you suggested ? Foreign developer has been approached many times but just refuses point blank.

 

Those who want change would have to pay. I would have thought that the absentee owners might be interested to, so perhaps you should contact them.

 

If no one is interested enough to pay for a lawyer to act for you then you've probably had it. Sell up and go to a better place.

[Orac]

A lawyer would help getting village plans from the Land Office for you. Depending which Land Office it is you may be able to do this yourself but a lawyer would probably be quicker.

Though there are only 25 villas on your estate you need to find out how many chanotes are registered since it is not a give that it is 25 - on our estate some houses have a couple of chanotes, the swimming pool has 4 and is not registered as common Land and the developer registered several small square metre plots individually in his own name. Our local Land Office is looking for agreement from holders of over 50% of chanotes to start the Juristic Person process.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Truroboy]

Can someone who has a legal THAI background tell me if a Homeowners Association is confirmed as a " Juristic Person " .

we live on a gated estate and are in a legally registered Homeowners Association but are getting confusing messages on this point from the courts

just won a Supreme Court verdict who have affirmed we are Jurisrtic and only last week at another court case told by the local judge he did not agree that our Association was a juristic Person

you would think the Supreme Court to be Supreme, thus we are confused 

we need a diffinitive answer from someone legally 

our lawyer has been magnificent but he too is concerned and confused 

[wildewillie89]

3 hours ago, MrJohnson said:

Given the very low capital gain on property in Thailand, combined with very poor or almost non-existent planning controls. I really believe it is best to rent. Even in a Moo Baan it is possible for residents to open bars and restaurants in the community itself and there are plenty of examples of that. Inevitably they decline as more and more residents refuse to pay common area fees. It is very common. Rent and if/when things start to decline simply pack up and move on.

 

Wouldn't any capital gain at all be better than throwing away money renting?
I do not agree with 'very low capital gain'. If Thai people (or farang who stupidly choose to pay for a house in Thai - no legal right) start from the beginning, buy/have land, build house yourself, sell, you are in for a decent gain. It is becoming more and more popular for Thais just to buy built houses these days, rather than building their own, laziness is doubling the price they need to pay. 
Just don't be stupid enough to buy a house in a 'gated community' with all the separate bullshit rules lol.

What common area fees are there building a regular house? Just garbage collection to the municipality (20 baht a month depending where you are).

[Naam]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Just don't be stupid enough to buy a house in a 'gated community' with all the separate bullshit rules

we are living since 11 years with what you call bullshit rules and in fact like them. real bullshit rules we experienced in the U.S. of A.

[wildewillie89]

44 minutes ago, Naam said:

we are living since 11 years with what you call bullshit rules and in fact like them. real bullshit rules we experienced in the U.S. of A.

I wouldn't know what the rules are in the U.S.A. But clearly the OP has some pretty bullshit rules in his gated community. 

[lanng khao]

I know of a contractor who predominantly builds in rayong, moo baan villa type properties, I've had correspondence with him myself. They charge between 40/50 thousand a year for the upkeep of their villages, it's what's put me off looking further into it.

 

[Naam]

8 hours ago, jingjo01 said:

Are any other forum members (who live in gated communities and have private pools and gardens) forced to pay developers (or homeowner committees) to attend to their private pool and and garden ?

no!

[Naam]

13 hours ago, Hutch68 said:

I thought a moo baan was just a normal village but I am a bit daft.... So your telling me some of you live behind a gate, all locked in and sharing things cooped up like hens? Sounds great.

spoken like a true ignorant living in a rented studio apartment and having no idea what "gated community" means

[thehelmsman]

47 minutes ago, Naam said:

spoken like a true ignorant living in a rented studio apartment and having no idea what "gated community" means

Wow, arrogance at it's best. Not everyone is afraid to live among the people. Would much rather look a little harder and find a house on a decent piece of land. At least 2 ngan. Most of these so called gated boxes give maybe 80 wah.

[jeab1980]

1 hour ago, Naam said:

spoken like a true ignorant living in a rented studio apartment and having no idea what "gated community" means

We all have our own ideas of what a gated community is and wether we choose to kive there or not. Me personaly never:, nothing much more in my eyes than a council estate.  Nothing wrong with council estates i just wouldn't live in one. Tell me why would one be ignorant living in a rented studio apartment? Im afraid your coment there rather smacks of snobbery at its best.

[Naam]

59 minutes ago, thehelmsman said:

Most of these so called gated boxes give maybe 80 wah.

ours is on 428 wah² and that's one of the smaller lots matching the minimum lot size of 1 rai in our moo baan. i admit that is in our view relatively small becaused we moved from a 2 acre lot in the U.S. of A.

[kannot]

59 minutes ago, Naam said:

ours is on 428 wah² and that's one of the smaller lots matching the minimum lot size of 1 rai in our moo baan. i admit that is in our view relatively small becaused we moved from a 2 acre lot in the U.S. of A.

Peasant! am only  happy with 5 acres and up

[JJJIIIMMM]

A mate of mine lives in a gated community here in hua hin.  He has to pay 75,000 baht a year (in a one off payment too). Plus his electric and water are charged to him at top rates.

 

Makes it hard to sell the house if he wants to.  On the chanote there are no public roads adjacent to his land, as the developer owns the roads, so if he were to stop paying, the developer could stop him having access to his land i think.

[Naam]

12 hours ago, kannot said:

Peasant! am only  happy with 5 acres and up

i would have liked 25 acres but that is only possible in the middle of nowhere.