Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[brewsterbudgen]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Nobody knows what Brexit we will end up with, but if there is no agreement, it will be an hard brexit, even the EU have said this.

That's true.  But were it to happen, the disastrous economic effects will become apparent and the next government will almost certainly be elected on a platform to re-negotiate, hold another referendum or, my preference, just go back in.  The EU have made it clear that this would be possible. 

[Khun Han]

10 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That's true.  But were it to happen, the disastrous economic effects will become apparent and the next government will almost certainly be elected on a platform to re-negotiate, hold another referendum or, my preference, just go back in.  The EU have made it clear that this would be possible. 

 

Go back in .

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Go back in .

Wishfull thinking.

[brewsterbudgen]

Wishfull thinking.

It is indeed. But stranger things have happened.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Caps said:

What....and married to his grandmother...sorry I meant school teacher 

He's French you fools! You think that's his only squeeze? What's the French for naivety?

[Basil B]

11 hours ago, Prbkk said:

Creepy George Osborne is telling everyone that she is a " dead woman walking" and barely able to disguise his obvious glee about it. Sure, she miscalculated on some policy issues ( and took some very poor advice) but overall she has done a good job and is entitled to continue on. It would be quite dangerous to change horses now and she has shown she is up to the job.

With a bit of softening over Brexit to come, she can recover from this and be a good and effective PM

Well that his £300 per day up the Swanee... (for signing in at the "The Other Place" on his way to work). 

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, rixalex said:

Remainers have been confidently telling themselves that for a long time.

 

Who knows, they may be correct. The latest election results certainly do add weight to that argument. Unfortunately though, only another referendum would conclusively prove one way or the other what the general public's opinion is on Brexit.

 

Whether remainers are correct or not in their assertion, it strikes me as being a bit strange for those particular people to be holding up a referendum result (not a real one you understand, just an imagined one that is in their head) as being somehow so definitive and important... not when considering how little meaning and importance they placed on an actual referendum result.

 

No doubt applying that extra little clause to the democratic process of referendums: "results only count when they go my way... when they don't, they should be ignored as the silly people voting obviously a] weren't as well informed as me b] were hoodwinked c] didn't know what they were voting for".

 

I think most people can accept the results of elections, they might be unhappy at not winning but they also know that they can have there chance again in 4-5 years time ... when people can see if what was promised by the winner has actually been delivered. No complaints then.

 

But the EU referendum was a decision that we could never go back on in practical terms, it not only tied in this generation but all the ones that are coming through for years to come. But if what was promised ... £350m per week extra into public services, trade deals with the world, low immigration, etc etc was not delivered on, there would be no opportunity to vote again. A bit like having Donald Trump as President forever. Your a, b and c comments were bang on ... a very poorly debated referendum with no clear idea where we would end up. But after the negotiations are complete we will be much better informed about what Brexit actually means, as we will have the deal in front of us. And if that is not what you want you should have the right to vote again. The difference being that the facts are on the table and what we are getting into is clear. If you support Brexit and you believe it is the right policy for the country in the long term you should have no fear of that vote. And if people vote to throw it out that is also democracy.  

 

 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

Do those E.U restrictions that you mention,start at a proven income of £18,500 p.a.

as required by the U.K government, before they will issue a settlement visa to the spouses of British citizens?

 The reason for this income requirement, is to prevent immigrants,and that's what other E.U. National are, from obtaining tax payers financed benefits.

I don't think the 18.5k level is an issue. They've recently published U.K. Salaries and if you are not making 18.5k how can you support a wife?

 

The immigration issues are our own fault. An EU migrant should have a job with a salary above a certain level or be a seasonal working. May slashed border force manpower so we don't keep track. The Thais do a better job!

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

You talk about Uniting the nation, yet continue to emphasise the so called difference in the youth vote to that of the rest of the nation, similar to those who dwell on the so called lack of education of those that voted Brexit. This I find is the  most disturbing aspect of the Remoaners argument over the last year. And you wonder why the electorate voted as they did.

 

Your lot tried to force through a hard brexit agenda without any thought for the people that don't support it ... the election was the opportunity for people to let you know how they feel about that ... and in particular young people, who are kicking themselves for being so complacent during the referendum vote. The people who were told to put up and shut up took their revenge. If you are really interested in having a united UK in the Brexit negotiations best not to insult people with genuine concerns for the long term future of this country ... the remoaners and snowflakes struck back. And if there is another election we're all looking down the barrel of a Corbyn government.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Boris is smart??  That's a stretch!

Great example: he's very well educated but not very intelligent! The two are NOT synonymous.

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

What a strange comment, I'll wager she has never wished for that once, but let's be honest Boris has all those qualities.

 

Boris is a liability ... a habitual liar and a man with a disastrous record for white elephant projects.

 

[Basil B]

47 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That's true.  But were it to happen, the disastrous economic effects will become apparent and the next government will almost certainly be elected on a platform to re-negotiate, hold another referendum or, my preference, just go back in.  The EU have made it clear that this would be possible. 

Another referendum EU-Ref2 is out the question, article 50 has been activated, Junkers did say he would like to see the UK rejoin in the future, but to me with what has been said by Junkers and others since DC announced the referendum leaves me in no doubt if we rejoined the UK would be a 3rd class member, it would be like sleeping in a wet bed .

 

Referendum to accept the negotiated package, Deal or No Deal there wold be not be enough time to organise, if we voted No Deal that means hard Brexit, and too many voters would think that if they voted No Deal the EU would renegotiate a better deal which will not happen. 

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

EU Freedom of Movement allows governments to impose minimum income requirements for residency. UK chooses not to do it. I believe its €600/month in Spain.

If you have a university degree ?

[nontabury]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Your lot tried to force through a hard brexit agenda without any thought for the people that don't support it ... the election was the opportunity for people to let you know how they feel about that ... and in particular young people, who are kicking themselves for being so complacent during the referendum vote. The people who were told to put up and shut up took their revenge. If you are really interested in having a united UK in the Brexit negotiations best not to insult people with genuine concerns for the long term future of this country ... the remoaners and snowflakes struck back. And if there is another election we're all looking down the barrel of a Corbyn government.

You try to insinuate that the older generation selfishly supported Brexit, forgetting that have children/grandchildren.  Open your mind and consider that they most certainly took that into consideration' and combined with their experience of life, thought it would be in the interest of their offsprings to vote Brexit.

[Basil B]

3 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

EU Freedom of Movement allows governments to impose minimum income requirements for residency. UK chooses not to do it. I believe its €600/month in Spain.

Yes, we could have insisted all those from the EU staying here more than 3 months register, part of the registration could have been proving they had the means to support themselves.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

That's true.  But were it to happen, the disastrous economic effects will become apparent and the next government will almost certainly be elected on a platform to re-negotiate, hold another referendum or, my preference, just go back in.  The EU have made it clear that this would be possible. 

Radio 4 said there is a majority of CONs who want a "business friendly" = Soft Brexit. This is what will happen.

[nontabury]

5 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Yes, we could have insisted all those from the EU staying here more than 3 months register, part of the registration could have been proving they had the means to support themselves.

But would that have helped big business, to keep wages down.

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Radio 4 said there is a majority of CONs who want a "business friendly" = Soft Brexit. This is what will happen.

You seem happy with this option grouse, even if it meant unlimited immigration?

[dick dasterdly]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

My remark was made with tongue in cheek, however having said that, Boris is highly intelligent, who may act the fool. People who are potential PMs are not stupid, he is well up the ladder of intelligence, which rung would you say you're on. 

 

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I have to say l'm no judge of people or ever cared much about politics but like Boris, don't always agree with what he says.

Personally l would think he would be a good in EU out negotiations just from the point he held on to his cards in the face of poles showing a win for stayers, pressure from all media and then came out that he was for Brexit unlike TM.

Interested in why you don't think he will play l kinda think he likes a game.  

 

There's no doubt that Boris is intelligent,  but similarly that he's only concerned with his own, personal interests.

 

it would have made sense for him to 'run' for the PM post when Cameron resigned (bearing in mind he was one of the main leave campaigners) -  but instead he suddenly became coy.....  He recognised this as a 'poisoned chalice', bearing in mind the majority of tory MPs supported remain.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2017 by dick dasterdly

[brewsterbudgen]

You seem happy with this option grouse, even if it meant unlimited immigration?

Freedom of movement for EU citizens has greatly benefited the UK and if we stay in the single market it will continue to do so.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

There's no doubt that Boris is intelligent,  but similarly that he's only concerned about his own, personal interest.

 

it would have made sense for him to 'run' for the PM post when Cameron resigned (bearing in mind he was one of the main leave campaigners) -  but instead he suddenly became coy.....  He recognised this as a 'poisoned chalice', bearing in mind the majority of tory MPs supported remain.

 

 

With the total chaos of the tories to failing to achieve an overall majority government, with the lead that they had, can anything really get any worse? I am thinking of learning 'The Red Flag, wearing a ban the bomb T shirt and holding a banner up saying, For the Many, Not the Few'

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Another referendum EU-Ref2 is out the question, article 50 has been activated, Junkers did say he would like to see the UK rejoin in the future, but to me with what has been said by Junkers and others since DC announced the referendum leaves me in no doubt if we rejoined the UK would be a 3rd class member, it would be like sleeping in a wet bed .

 

Referendum to accept the negotiated package, Deal or No Deal there wold be not be enough time to organise, if we voted No Deal that means hard Brexit, and too many voters would think that if they voted No Deal the EU would renegotiate a better deal which will not happen. 

The government would be voted down.

 

The EU would be accommodating I promise you

[Grouse]

26 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You try to insinuate that the older generation selfishly supported Brexit, forgetting that have children/grandchildren.  Open your mind and consider that they most certainly took that into consideration' and combined with their experience of life, thought it would be in the interest of their offsprings to vote Brexit.

Mummy and Daddy know best?

 

Not always. 

[brewsterbudgen]

Mummy and Daddy know best?
 
Not always. 

And the revenge of the young at last week's election has been sweet.

[nontabury]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

And the revenge of the young at last week's election has been sweet.

O.k, so your a bit slow. I'll explain it to you again.  Last weeks result had nothing to do with Brexit.  May had a parliamentary majority, yet because she wanted a larger majority, she called a general election. At that time it was estimated that her majority would increase to maybe 180.

 Then the Conservatives published their suicdal manifesto, this Immediately resulted in support for her taking a big and understandable hit. 

This was shown in last Thursday result. Even though she did increase her popular vote by a couple of million. Understand now.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Nobody knows what Brexit we will end up with, but if there is no agreement, it will be an hard brexit, even the EU have said this.

The tory party is now trying to get rid of May and blame the poor GE result on the electorate hating her brexit stance ('no deal is better than a bad deal') - rather than the unbelievably (sic) poor election campaign which included the clearly vote losing 'dementia tax'.  Something that would normally be introduced once elected - not as a campaign point .

 

IMO there will be an 'agreement' on which MPs (the vast majority of whom support remain) will vote - and after endless media coverage over the next couple of years the electorate is likely to be sick and tired of the whole thing - reducing the fear of MPs that they will be voted out after having agreed to a 'bad deal'.

 

I hope I'm wrong.

[AlexRich]

41 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You try to insinuate that the older generation selfishly supported Brexit, forgetting that have children/grandchildren.  Open your mind and consider that they most certainly took that into consideration' and combined with their experience of life, thought it would be in the interest of their offsprings to vote Brexit.

 

Don't make me laugh ... they did it for the grandchildren ... the same one's that told them they did not want it?

 

The truth is that they did it for themselves, to get back to some memory of the England of their childhood, safe in the belief that it would not affect them personally ... until the dementia tax and triple lock shelving kicked in ... and they're now voting for the lovely Jeremy! LOL.

 

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, nontabury said:

But would that have helped big business, to keep wages down.

Frankly, they just want educated and trained people. 600,000 open vacancies in digital tech.

[Grouse]

30 minutes ago, vogie said:

You seem happy with this option grouse, even if it meant unlimited immigration?

No, not at all.

 

Immigration is too high and we are overpopulated.

 

I would be much smarter and reduce immigration dramatically and STILL meet EU regs!

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

O.k, so your a bit slow. I'll explain it to you again.  Last weeks result had nothing to do with Brexit.  May had a parliamentary majority, yet because she wanted a larger majority, she called a general election. At that time it was estimated that her majority would increase to maybe 180.

 Then the Conservatives published their suicdal manifesto, this Immediately resulted in support for her taking a big and understandable hit. 

This was shown in last Thursday result. Even though she did increase her popular vote by a couple of million. Understand now.

 

The vote was 100% about strengthening her hand to force through a hard brexit ... and that was rejected!