Complicated Visa Problem...Solution Needed

[fittobethaied]

My Aussie friend entered Thailand in April 2016 on a Multiple Entry Non-Immigrant O-A Visa based on Retirement.  In December 2016 he crossed over into Laos at Nong Khai for one day of shopping, and when he reentered Thailand was given an automatic one year extension of his Visa and has a clear stamp from the Immigration Officer giving him permission to stay until Dec 11, 2017.  I have heard for years that this is customary, and normally he would be required to apply for an extension at the Nong Khai Immigration Office effective Dec 11, 2017.  Now is where it gets complicated.  In May 2017 he took a one month vacation to Australia, but when he returned to Thailand through Suvarnabhumi Airport in Bangkok he was told that his Visa had expired and was given only a 21 day visitor's stamp.  My friend was caught off guard and could not argue his case since he was so rattled, so he later visited the Nong Khai Immigration Office which is in the province where he lives to sort the matter out.  He says they refused to budge and would not honor the stamp that their own Immigration Officer had given him at the Friendship Bridge which permitted him to stay until Dec 11, 2017.  The Officer insisted that all he could do was give him a 30 day stamp and then charged him 6000 baht and  stuck the money directly into his pocket with no receipt offered. My friend has now come to me for advice and I have sent him back to the Nong Khai Immigration Office for further inquiry on his options to stay in the country.  In the past month he has gotten legally married and has obtained a Yellow Book (Tabian Ban), so when he inquired about a visa based on Marriage, the Immigration Officer became irate and told him to go to the Thai Consulate in Vientiane and speak with them. He and his Thai wife were so intimidated that they are afraid to return to the Nong Khai Immigration Office for help, so he is near to having a nervous breakdown over the total lack of cooperation that he is receiving from that office as well as the fear of having to leave Thailand and perhaps not being able to return.  Therefore, can any of my fellow forum participants please put forth some helpful advice on what he should do at this point based on your own personal knowledge of the system and your own experience.  My friend is running out of time very quickly. Many thanks in advance for your generous assistance!   

[BritTim]

Your friend left and returned to Thailand after his visa had expired. He was correctly given a visa exempt entry (presumably for 30 days, not 21 days). The correct procedure when leaving Thailand after the visa has expired is to protect your current permission to stay with a reentry permit (available at the airport for 1,000 baht).

 

If he is married, and does not want to deal with the local immigration, suggest he travel to Savannakhet and get a one year multiple entry Non O visa on the basis of marriage from there. He will need to do border runs every 90 days, but it is otherwise hassle free.

[fittobethaied]

9 minutes ago, BritTim said:

Your friend left and returned to Thailand after his visa had expired. He was correctly given a visa exempt entry (presumably for 30 days, not 21 days). The correct procedure when leaving Thailand after the visa has expired is to protect your current permission to stay with a reentry permit (available at the airport for 1,000 baht).

 

If he is married, and does not want to deal with the local immigration, suggest he travel to Savannakhet and get a one year multiple entry Non O visa on the basis of marriage from there. He will need to do border runs every 90 days, but it is otherwise hassle free.

Thanks friend for your reply.  Actually, his visa had not expired when he left the country for his trip to Australia because he was given an automatic extension of his multiple entry visa when he reentered Thailand from Laos in Dec 2016.  The stamp clearly says that he is permitted to stay until Dec 11, 2017.  Again, I have heard for years from guys who have exited the country during the first year of their initial 12 month visa term and were stamped back through with an automatic 12 month extension of that visa, but that can only happen one time.  After that the extension has to be applied for at an Immigration Office and proper documentation requirements must be satisfied at that point.  All that is common knowledge here in Udon Thani and has been verified on the local forums for the past 7 years that I have lived in Thailand. And, the stamp he received in Bangkok on his return was definitely for only 21 days. I have personally inspected all aspects of his passport.

[Upnotover]

If he arrived in Thailand in April 2016 his O-A visa will definitely have expired by May/June 2017.  Look at it, it has an "enter before" date.  He and you need to understand the difference between an extension and a permission to stay.  Each time an O-A entry is made before the "enter before" date a 12 months permission to stay is granted, it is not an extension of anything.

[glegolo]

 

_{fittobethaied}

_{I do not want you to feel bad, but plse when writing, devide your text into smaller portions.}

_{It is a nightmare to read all these letters like it is one single sentence....}

 

_Glegolo

[Doiger]

His visa had  expired, if he entered in April 2016 then the latest his visa was valid for was April 2017.

the first year of the oa visa gives unlimited entries and permission to stay of one year up until the expiry date of the visa.

after the expiry date a re-entry permit is required to keep any entry valid.

you friend went to Australia in may 2017 which means if he never had a re-entry permit then indeed the immigration were correct as his visa had expired.

[fittobethaied]

3 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

If he arrived in Thailand in April 2016 his O-A visa will definitely have expired by May/June 2017.  Look at it, it has an "enter before" date.  He and you need to understand the difference between an extension and a permission to stay.  Each time an O-A entry is made before the "enter before" date a 12 months permission to stay is granted, it is not an extension of anything.

Upnotover, I completely understand your point, but as I have mentioned twice above, when he reentered Thailand from Laos in Dec 2017 he was given a stamp which clearly states that he is permitted to stay until Dec 11, 2017. Why would Immigration tell him now that he is already in overstay and must leave the country after this current 30 day stamp expires?  How can they not honor that stamp?  

[NanLaew]

The SUBSEQUENT 1-year extension of the original, overseas embassy issued multi-entry OA visa does not have same exit/entry privileges as the original visa. This is because the original visa has EXPIRED and the OP's friend is now on a 1-year extension. An extension of stay is not and never will be a visa. To keep immigration extensions 'alive', one needs to get a re-entry permit BEFORE departing the country otherwise the extension is invalidated as 'USED'.

 

The following advice given earlier is the best option if the OP's friend either doesn't have recourse or want to go back to Australia and get another 1-year, multi-entry OA. If the OP's friend is happy leaving and returning 3 -4 times a year, then it is a good solution.

 

22 minutes ago, BritTim said:

If he is married, and does not want to deal with the local immigration, suggest he travel to Savannakhet and get a one year multiple entry Non O visa on the basis of marriage from there. He will need to do border runs every 90 days, but it is otherwise hassle free.

 

[Upnotover]

He was permitted to stay until December 2017.  However he chose not to and went to Australia in May 2017.  So that entry was finished early.  He could have got a re-entry permit in which case he would have kept the December 2017 date alive.....but he didn't.

[NanLaew]

Just now, fittobethaied said:

Upnotover, I completely understand your point, but as I have mentioned twice above, when he reentered Thailand from Laos in Dec 2017 he was given a stamp which clearly states that he is permitted to stay until Dec 11, 2017. Why would Immigration tell him now that he is already in overstay and must leave the country after this current 30 day stamp expires?  How can they not honor that stamp?  

Because through a misunderstanding of the validity of extensions and the 'keep alive' options of re-entry permits, the OP's friend has overstayed.

 

The extension requires a re-entry permit to keep it alive if the holder of the extension leaves the country and wishes to return on the same extension.

[fittobethaied]

8 minutes ago, Doiger said:

His visa had  expired, if he entered in April 2016 then the latest his visa was valid for was April 2017.

the first year of the oa visa gives unlimited entries and permission to stay of one year up until the expiry date of the visa.

after the expiry date a re-entry permit is required to keep any entry valid.

you friend went to Australia in may 2017 which means if he never had a re-entry permit then indeed the immigration were correct as his visa had expired.

Thanks Doiger...now this is starting to make sense.  Being that he was given an automatic one year extension of his permission to stay when he reentered from Laos in Dec 2017, then the Multiple Entry authority of his first visa definitely had expired, and had he obtained a reentry permit when he left for Australia, then he would still be good now until Dec 11, 2017. So, based on his failure to obtain the reentry permit his permission to stay till Dec 2017 is now invalid. Is that the way you are seeing this?

[FritsSikkink]

1 minute ago, fittobethaied said:

Thanks Doiger...now this is starting to make sense.  Being that he was given an automatic one year extension of his permission to stay when he reentered from Laos in Dec 2017, then the Multiple Entry authority of his first visa definitely had expired, and had he obtained a reentry permit when he left for Australia, then he would still be good now until Dec 11, 2017. So, based on his failure to obtain the reentry permit his permission to stay till Dec 2017 is now invalid. Is that the way you are seeing this?

yes

[glegolo]

1 minute ago, fittobethaied said:

Thanks Doiger...now this is starting to make sense.  Being that he was given an automatic one year extension of his permission to stay when he reentered from Laos in Dec 2017, then the Multiple Entry authority of his first visa definitely had expired, and had he obtained a reentry permit when he left for Australia, then he would still be good now until Dec 11, 2017. So, based on his failure to obtain the reentry permit his permission to stay till Dec 2017 is now invalid. Is that the way you are seeing this?

Not "seeing this"...... This is the way it is... without any question.

Good luck in explaining this to your friend..

 

Glegolo

[mahjongguy]

" The extension requires a re-entry permit to keep it alive if the holder of the extension leaves the country and wishes to return on the same extension. "

 

That statement would be accurate if the words "extension" were replaced with "Permission To Stay". 

 

Nowhere in this story was anything extended.

 

 

[Weddings Parties Anything]

Your mate forgot to get an re-entry permit. His extension of stay died the second departed Thailand for that holiday to Australia. 

 

He he needs to follow the advice from immigration. 

[Upnotover]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

 

Good luck in explaining this to your friend..

 

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king .

[NanLaew]

17 minutes ago, mahjongguy said:

" The extension requires a re-entry permit to keep it alive if the holder of the extension leaves the country and wishes to return on the same extension. "

 

That statement would be accurate if the words "extension" were replaced with "Permission To Stay". 

 

Nowhere in this story was anything extended.

 

 

From the OP.

 

56 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

In December 2016 he crossed over into Laos at Nong Khai for one day of shopping, and when he reentered Thailand was given an automatic one year extension of his Visa and has a clear stamp from the Immigration Officer giving him permission to stay until Dec 11, 2017. 

Being unfamiliar with the correct terminology still got the OP an extension of his original permission to stay.

Unfortunately, being unaware or otherwise ignorant of how the terminology is applied is what got him on overstay.

 

Semantics can be bitch.

[paul18620]

26 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

Thanks Doiger...now this is starting to make sense.  Being that he was given an automatic one year extension of his permission to stay when he reentered from Laos in Dec 2017, then the Multiple Entry authority of his first visa definitely had expired, and had he obtained a reentry permit when he left for Australia, then he would still be good now until Dec 11, 2017. So, based on his failure to obtain the reentry permit his permission to stay till Dec 2017 is now invalid. Is that the way you are seeing this?

Wait till Ubon Joe comes on here he will tell  you the options your friend has ,but he better get him self to the Thai consulate and get a visa based on marriage.

And since you friend didn't have a re-entry permit that stamp he has till Dec 2017 is dead they won't honour it at all ,why would they its finished

 I think he got scammed of 6000 bhat also ,suppose he could always complain or even ask to see the main officer at the immigration office he went to but I don't think he will get anywhere with that.

[Nong Khai Man]

41 minutes ago, Upnotover said:

He was permitted to stay until December 2017.  However he chose not to and went to Australia in May 2017.  So that entry was finished early.  He could have got a re-entry permit in which case he would have kept the December 2017 date alive.....but he didn't.

That's CLEAR In'it ???

[paul18620]

And another thing you said he left in May for 1 month so he came back to Thailand in June its impossible that he is on overstay as he gets 30days visa exempt when he arrives since he is from Australia and this can be extend for 30 days at a fee of 1900 bhat at his local immigration office ,this will give him time to get himself sorted out so he can get a visa based on marriage.

 

And if he never got 30 days again go and visit the local immigration office and ask them to fix it for him, but tell him to be polite and smile a lot at the officer trying to help him.

[Nong Khai Man]

39 minutes ago, fittobethaied said:

Thanks Doiger...now this is starting to make sense.  Being that he was given an automatic one year extension of his permission to stay when he reentered from Laos in Dec 2017, then the Multiple Entry authority of his first visa definitely had expired, and had he obtained a reentry permit when he left for Australia, then he would still be good now until Dec 11, 2017. So, based on his failure to obtain the reentry permit his permission to stay till Dec 2017 is now invalid. Is that the way you are seeing this?

Ahh !! Now you are getting to UNDERSTAND It......He SHOULD Have got a Re-Entry Permit.....

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, fittobethaied said:

... In the past month he has gotten legally married and has obtained a Yellow Book (Tabian Ban), so when he inquired about a visa based on Marriage, the Immigration Officer became irate and told him to go to the Thai Consulate in Vientiane and speak with them. He and his Thai wife were so intimidated that they are afraid to return to the Nong Khai Immigration Office for help, so he is near to having a nervous breakdown over the total lack of cooperation that he is receiving from that office as well as the fear of having to leave Thailand and perhaps not being able to return. ...

Applying for an extension based on marriage doesn't require a yellow-book. 

As BritTim outlined, above, he could get a 1-year Multiple-Entry Visa based on Marriage (5000 Baht) in Savanahket (with no proof of funds) or Penang (with proof of funds).  That offers 90-days per-entry, each extendable once, at a local immigration office, by 60 additional days, for reason of "visiting wife."

But if he wants to get a 1-year permitted-stay not requiring any border-runs, here's what he will need to do to get a one-year extension-of-stay based on marriage:

1. Obtain a Non-O Visa based on marriage.  This can be done via "conversion" of his existing Tourist entry at some immigration offices, but the response he received indicates that Nong Khai will not be helpful.  It seems to be a PITA for them to do conversions, so some offices refuse to do it.  Therefore, he can go to the Thai Consulate in Vientiane (closest option) for a Single-Entry (90-day) Non-O based on marriage (2000 Baht).

2. In the last 30-days of the 90-day entry, go to Nong Khai immigration and apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on marriage. 

 

Many other threads have the details / paperwork he will need to show for each step.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, fittobethaied said:

Being that he was given an automatic one year extension of his permission to stay when he reentered from Laos in Dec 2017,

This whole thread shows the importance of understanding what particular terms mean, and their significance:

• Visa, usually issued by a consulate outside Thailand, provides the right to enter Thailand one or multiple times.
• Entry, arrival in Thailand. When this occurs, the immigration official stamps your passport with a permission to stay with an expiry date. The permission to stay, by default, ceases when you leave Thailand.
• Extension of stay, always given at an immigration office inside Thailand. This modifies your existing permission to stay such that the admitted to stay date is set to a later date.
• Reentry Permit, issued at an immigration office inside Thailand or at the airport on departure. It allows you to leave and reenter Thailand with your current permission to stay being unaffected by your trip.

When your friend came back to Thailand in December 2016, he did so with an unexpired visa. The immigration official properly gave him a fresh permission to stay (not an extension). When he left, his permission to stay ceased, as he had no reentry permit to protect it. When he reentered, with no unexpired visa or reentry permit, the immigration official correctly gave him a 30-day visa exempt entry.

[fittobethaied]

Okay Guys....I think you have identified my friend's problem and offered some very sound solutions, so I have forwarded all the information to him so that he can now make an informed decision on what is best for him at this point.  I think this concludes our need for further information, so I want to thank all of those who responded.  This information has been invaluable, and my friend and I will be eternally grateful to all of you. 

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, fittobethaied said:

the stamp he received in Bangkok on his return was definitely for only 21 days

That was almost certainly an error by the immigration official that could (probably should) have been corrected. Visa exempt entries are always for 30 days (with the exception of a few countries' nationals who get longer under a reciprocal agreement).

[hgma]

Unusual situation at the NongKhai Immigration office, but i never had an issue other then one caused by myself at one time.

You may have been dealing with new arrivals as the 2 most experienced  officers are retiring this year ...........Mr P and Mr S.

As stated!!

 

[jojothai]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Applying for an extension based on marriage doesn't require a yellow-book. 

As BritTim outlined, above, he could get a 1-year Multiple-Entry Visa based on Marriage (5000 Baht) in Savanahket (with no proof of funds) or Penang (with proof of funds).  That offers 90-days per-entry, each extendable once, at a local immigration office, by 60 additional days, for reason of "visiting wife."

But if he wants to get a 1-year permitted-stay not requiring any border-runs, here's what he will need to do to get a one-year extension-of-stay based on marriage:

1. Obtain a Non-O Visa based on marriage.  This can be done via "conversion" of his existing Tourist entry at some immigration offices, but the response he received indicates that Nong Khai will not be helpful.  It seems to be a PITA for them to do conversions, so some offices refuse to do it.  Therefore, he can go to the Thai Consulate in Vientiane (closest option) for a Single-Entry (90-day) Non-O based on marriage (2000 Baht).

2. In the last 30-days of the 90-day entry, go to Nong Khai immigration and apply for a 1-year extension of stay based on marriage. 

 

Many other threads have the details / paperwork he will need to show for each step.

For fittobethaied

To do the second method you need formal proof of marriage. Photos also required but not sufficient on their own. He will need to consider what he means by "legally" married?

 

From what you say he probably got married in Thailand. if so, he may need it to be formally registered.

If not there may be ways of getting formal proof from the district office where he/she lives. I believe that there is a form they can use for this.

I heard this from Chaeng Wattana immigration when I enquired last year.

You will have to check other threads to find out more about what constitutes proof and ask immigration.

 

FYI: If married abroad, the marriage certificate has to be certified by embassy/home country and MFA/overseas consulate.

[louse1953]

5 hours ago, fittobethaied said:

Thanks friend for your reply.  Actually, his visa had not expired when he left the country for his trip to Australia because he was given an automatic extension of his multiple entry visa when he reentered Thailand from Laos in Dec 2016.  The stamp clearly says that he is permitted to stay until Dec 11, 2017.  Again, I have heard for years from guys who have exited the country during the first year of their initial 12 month visa term and were stamped back through with an automatic 12 month extension of that visa, but that can only happen one time.  After that the extension has to be applied for at an Immigration Office and proper documentation requirements must be satisfied at that point.  All that is common knowledge here in Udon Thani and has been verified on the local forums for the past 7 years that I have lived in Thailand. And, the stamp he received in Bangkok on his return was definitely for only 21 days. I have personally inspected all aspects of his passport.

Did you see a re entry visa on you close inspection.Not very good with all the info up Udon way.

[glegolo]

8 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Did you see a re entry visa on you close inspection.Not very good with all the info up Udon way.

This thread is done and finished, do we really have to go on, and spread more mis-information???

Re entry VISA???????????  There is NO such thing........ Maybe you are talking about a re entry permit???????

 

Glegolo

[saakura]

• Reentry Permit, issued at an immigration office inside Thailand or at the airport on departure. It allows you to leave and reenter Thailand with your current permission to stay being unaffected by your trip.

Even a 'Permanent Resident' is actually on an 'Extension of Stay' but for ever, until his death. This permission to stay until death is immediately invalidated if he leaves Thailand without taking a reentry permit.

 

Friend of mine waited 5 years and spent tons of time and money getting a PR for himself, wife and 2 children. They went for a short holiday to Singapore after 2 months but without taking the reentry permits. No amount of official appeals and unofficial bribes could help them get the PR restored.