Protesters rally against Islamic law in dozens of U.S. cities

[simple1]

59 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

The most important aspect of that article, was that it was about Indian Muslims. Most Indian Muslims, even though they might be considered Sunni or Shia, are intimately Sufis. Sufism is one of the most moderate, liberal, and fun loving, of all the Muslim sects. And for that reason, they are universally despised throughout the more ardent regions of the Islamic world. They love to sing, dance, listen to music, and they are passionate about life, something few Muslims of the less tolerant groups associated with Sharia, or Wahhabism can brag about. For that reason, I consider them to be more spiritual, and more genuine, in their religious practice. I do not consider the Wahhabis, nor the other extreme sects of Islam, to have any connection to their creator. None. Their religion is a sad shadow of real Islam, and one without real spirit, joy, benevolence, tolerance, or any of the positive qualities associated with Islam. Instead theirs is associated with fear, paranoia, intolerance, hatred, fatwas, death, destruction, mayhem, the continued support of terror worldwide, and desperation. 

Thankfully you understand, contrary to many members, that all Muslims do not subscribe to the same ideology / POV.

[hansnl]

On 6/11/2017 at 8:11 AM, darksidedog said:

I think that is very reasonable actually. Many Muslims do not recognise Sharia law and they are the ones integrating into Western society nicely. It is the fringe lunatics, who want to live in the past with ancient and barbaric laws, and impose them on others against their will, who are the problem. America has its own laws. Muslims wanting to live there, need to accept them and renounce anything else. If they don't, they should leave.

If an act of terror is committed in the name of Islam, the silence from the Muslim communities is hurting my ears.

Even from the integrated muslims there comes no or just a token comment, mostly clad in social blahblah.

The problem is, they come, don't want our freedoms, will try to introduce their medieval ideas, have no success, will get idiot, but don't go away!

[Jingthing]

Infowars is total filth. Sandy Hook deniers. Credibility less than zero.

[funandsuninbangkok]

On 6/11/2017 at 8:18 AM, stevenl said:

Agree with you, but the demonstrators are there showing their anti Muslim stance.

This is just an attempt to hide their bigotry, political correctness of the right.

So anti Nazi is actually antiGerman by this logic?

[YetAnother]

sharia law says 'do not kill' then says 'stone an unfaithful woman' ; go figure

[stevenl]

49 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

So anti Nazi is actually antiGerman by this logic?

If you dont understand something, don't react.

[YetAnother]

good ; take a stance against this menace

[Scott]

A post and replies removed.   Infowars is not a credible source.   

[thaibeachlovers]

Having read some of the posts on this thread I can only surmise that some posters have never lived in a sharia country, as they would have, IMO, a different perspective.

I have, and no westerner that I knew in Saudi would have welcomed it in their own country.

[Thakkar]

27 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Having read some of the posts on this thread I can only surmise that some posters have never lived in a sharia country, as they would have, IMO, a different perspective.

I have, and no westerner that I knew in Saudi would have welcomed it in their own country.

 

That's a non sequitur.

 

No one on this thread has said they support Sharia Law. The introduction of such a law has no meaningful support to speak of anywhere in the West.

 

The protesters are protesting a non-existent law, that may not even have majority support among American Muslims, let alone the general population.

 

It's like protesting against a law that *requires* all urination be public urination. There is no proposal or demand for such a law—why protest a ghost law?

 

The protest is nothing but a barely disguised excuse for some anti-Muslim ranting and a means to stoke anti-Islam feeling based on spurious fears. It is dishonest and divisive.

 

T

[Grubster]

On 6/11/2017 at 4:50 PM, Jingthing said:

That's not the point. 

The xenophobic protesters were suggesting this is a threat in the U.S.

It is NOT. 

I worked with a muslim engineer at a large university in the US, the university police got a call of a university car parked illegally in a town 50 miles away. It was him at a muslim temple, on university time, of course nothing was done. He was also allowed to spend an hour or so per day to pray on university time. This does not fly for me at all. Will we have to allow all the muslim kids to go off to pray during school? If so will the rest of the kids just have to sit around waiting for them or will the muslim kids miss part of their classes? Will our schools have to make food that has no pork as to be sure the muslims don't accidentally get some? I don't know if US muslims practice mutilation of girls but I suspect they may, can you except that? Will bank robbers etc. just dress as a muslim woman so to be legal with a mask? I don't hate nonviolent muslims but they just don't fit well in a society that has separation of church and state. Why would a muslim want to live in a country who's citizens are constantly breaking many of the rules of their religion?

[Grubster]

56 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

That's a non sequitur.

 

No one on this thread has said they support Sharia Law. The introduction of such a law has no meaningful support to speak of anywhere in the West.

 

The protesters are protesting a non-existent law, that may not even have majority support among American Muslims, let alone the general population.

 

It's like protesting against a law that *requires* all urination be public urination. There is no proposal or demand for such a law—why protest a ghost law?

 

The protest is nothing but a barely disguised excuse for some anti-Muslim ranting and a means to stoke anti-Islam feeling based on spurious fears. It is dishonest and divisive.

 

T

Then why protest the protest of a ghost law, they might look a little silly if they were out there without the counter protesters huh?

[Thakkar]

6 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Then why protest the protest of a ghost law, they might look a little silly if they were out there without the counter protesters huh?

Because unlike the Sharia protesters, the counter protesters are protesting a real thing: they are protesting the promotion of islamophobia.

 

T

[Thakkar]

17 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Why would a muslim want to live in a country who's citizens are constantly breaking many of the rules of their religion?

You can say the same about Hasidic Jews, Native Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, Ba'hai, Mormons, Zoroastrians, Christian Scientists. Baptists can say that about Seventh Day Adventists and vice versa. 

 

America is all about different peoples living more or less harmoniously and making reasonable accommodations for each other. No one has to believe in anyone else's god to get along.

 

T

[Grubster]

13 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

Because unlike the Sharia protesters, the counter protesters are protesting a real thing: they are protesting the promotion of islamophobia.

 

T

Sharia law originated in the middle east, there are many countries outside the middle east that practice it now, the muslims there didn't start to practice it until they had gained a strong foothold in these countries. Sharia law is as real as real can get. The only way to successfully stop it may be to stop muslims from getting a strong foothold in your country, I don't know. I do respect the fears of those who believe this can happen as it has in so many places.

[Grubster]

18 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

You can say the same about Hasidic Jews, Native Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, Ba'hai, Mormons, Zoroastrians, Christian Scientists. Baptists can say that about Seventh Day Adventists and vice versa. 

 

America is all about different peoples living more or less harmoniously and making reasonable accommodations for each other. No one has to believe in anyone else's god to get along.

 

T

So this would include me working 8 hours and my muslim counterpart working seven for the same pay? Will it be ok to not let muslim kids stop for an hour to pray? Will we have to provide a prayer room? Will it be ok to sell pork in your restaurant or would that be anti muslim? I don't know of any other faith that has to pray when they should be working do you?

[Thakkar]

4 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Sharia law originated in the middle east, there are many countries outside the middle east that practice it now, the muslims there didn't start to practice it until they had gained a strong foothold in these countries. Sharia law is as real as real can get. The only way to successfully stop it may be to stop muslims from getting a strong foothold in your country, I don't know. I do respect the fears of those who believe this can happen as it has in so many places.

 

Thanks for the looney tunes cereal box history lesson. 

 

Not even all majority Muslim countries practice Sharia Law. There is no chance whatsoever that America, with its secular constitution and minuscule Muslim population will will adopt Sharia Law.

 

If you really want bogeymen, fear the home grown Evangelical Taliban . That would be a more realistic fear.

 

T

[Thakkar]

17 minutes ago, Grubster said:

So this would include me working 8 hours and my muslim counterpart working seven for the same pay? Will it be ok to not let muslim kids stop for an hour to pray? Will we have to provide a prayer room? Will it be ok to sell pork in your restaurant or would that be anti muslim? I don't know of any other faith that has to pray when they should be working do you?

 

You're getting worked up over non issues. 

 

When I worked in HK, Hindus took the day off during Diwali, and left a little early on various their special occasions. Muslims left early during Ramadan, but made up for it by working through lunch. Christians took the day off during Thanksgiving and during Chinese New Year, we all got a whole week off, whether we wanted it or not.

 

People accommodated each other and everything ran just fine.

 

Just chill and enjoy the diversity.

 

T

[Grubster]

1 minute ago, Thakkar said:

 

Thanks for the looney tunes cereal box history lesson. 

 

Not even all majority Muslim countries practice Sharia Law. There is no chance whatsoever that America, with its secular constitution and minuscule Muslim population will will adopt Sharia Law.

 

If you really want bogeymen, fear the home grown Evangelical Taliban . That would be a more realistic fear.

 

T

Indonesia, Thailand, The Philipines, Malaysia, Afganistan, etc. etc. never had any either. And yes I do fear the far right wing nut jobs too. I think some western countries like Norway may see Sharia law within fifty years. I think its real, you don't. Thats all, no big deal.

[Grubster]

3 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

You're getting worked up over non issues. 

 

When I worked in HK, Hindus took the day off during Diwali, and left a little early on various their special occasions. Muslims left early during Ramadan, but made up for it by working through lunch. Christians took the day off during Thanksgiving and during Chinese New Year, we all got a whole week off, whether we wanted it or not.

 

People accommodated each other and everything ran just fine.

 

Just chill and enjoy the diversity.

 

T

Me working 8 and him working 7 for the same pay is a non issue? OK

[Thakkar]

13 minutes ago, Grubster said:

Indonesia, Thailand, The Philipines, Malaysia, Afganistan, etc. etc. never had any either. And yes I do fear the far right wing nut jobs too. I think some western countries like Norway may see Sharia law within fifty years. I think its real, you don't. Thats all, no big deal.

 

If you choose to live in a state of agitation over this as yet unfounded fear, you are choosing to live in a constant state of victimhood over nothing. That can't be healthy.

 

We all make unhealthy choices. Mine is more pedestrian: I spend too much time on TV Forums.

 

Time for me to tear myself away.

 

Cheers.

 

T

[Morch]

15 hours ago, Thakkar said:

Because unlike the Sharia protesters, the counter protesters are protesting a real thing: they are protesting the promotion of islamophobia.

 

T

 

So the counter protesters do not represent any agenda and got no political axe to grind? That's good to know.

[Morch]

15 hours ago, Thakkar said:

You can say the same about Hasidic Jews, Native Americans, Hindus, Buddhists, Ba'hai, Mormons, Zoroastrians, Christian Scientists. Baptists can say that about Seventh Day Adventists and vice versa. 

 

America is all about different peoples living more or less harmoniously and making reasonable accommodations for each other. No one has to believe in anyone else's god to get along.

 

T

 

Most (not all) of the above do not subscribe to proselytizing. Might have something to do with it. Most (not all) do not have to regularly deal with issues of condemning violence by followers. Maybe that's got something to do with it as well.

[Thakkar]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Most (not all) of the above do not subscribe to proselytizing. Might have something to do with it. Most (not all) do not have to regularly deal with issues of condemning violence by followers. Maybe that's got something to do with it as well.

 

I don't think the issue of proselytizing is all that relevant here. The issue is people of a religion wanting to introduce laws in the public sphere based on their religion. This is to be resisted regardless of religion. 

 

Hindus in India have been trying it on for decades going back to the Colonial period. Some of the most rabidly religious Hindus (and thus supporters of the Hindu chauvinist PM Modi) are in fact expatriates living in America. They may be doctors and software engineers, but below that meek exterior, they can be religiously fanatical. They would love to introduce a beef ban, but realize that it's an unrealistic goal.

 

The loony hodgepodge of alcohol restrictions in Thailand is a result of a messy compromise between business interests and religious activists. You don't think the true believers would prefer a complete ban?

 

In Sri Lanka Sinhalese buddhists have rioted and massacred Tamil Hindus on various occasions and lobby for stricter Buddhism based laws.

 

The maltreatment of the Rohingya in Burma and Ang Sang Su Chi's meek response to their human rights violations is linked to Buddhist chauvinism and the government's desire to retain majority Buddhist support. Those fundamentalists would no sought like more input into government law-making.

 

Mormons until recently were still trying to legalize bigamy. If they had the numbers or power, you don't think they would? In the Mormon majority state of Utah, alcohol laws are probably the most restrictive in America.

 

Many religions are prone to chauvinism. That is the nature of religion for the simple reason that true believers KNOW they have the answer to the ultimate truth. Taken to its logical conclusion, how can such people be anything but disdainful of non believers?

 

Today, the flavor of religious violence is mostly Islam. At other times, it's been other religions. In India it is Hinduism in the guise of Shiv Sena, a "social charity"

 

We must therefore be vigilant against any religious infiltration into public life.

 

My contention is that that is not what these protesters against Sharia were doing. There is simply no discernible movement by American Muslims to lobby for sharia law. 

 

Vigilance is always warranted. Disingenuous divisive, hateful protest, not so much.

 

T

 

[Thakkar]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

So the counter protesters do not represent any agenda and got no political axe to grind? That's good to know.

 

They're all paid by Soros to oppose haters who are putting up a straw man to stoke anger & bigotry. 

 

So diabolical. 

 

T

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

 

They're all paid by Soros to oppose haters who are putting up a straw man to stoke anger & bigotry. 

 

So diabolical. 

 

T

 

 

Never said anything of the sort. More often, quite the opposite, on other topics.

Ascribing protestors with a political agenda and backing, while implying none when it comes to counter protests is a cool story.

[Thakkar]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Never said anything of the sort. More often, quite the opposite, on other topics.

Ascribing protestors with a political agenda and backing, while implying none when it comes to counter protests is a cool story.

 

I don't think the protesters have a political agenda. They are just bigots who want to spread hate and division in the guise of secular politics.

 

The counter protesters' agenda is simply to counter that.

 

I was joshing about Soros. I am aware that you don't subscribe to silly conspiracies.

 

T

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

 

I don't think the issue of proselytizing is all that relevant here. The issue is people of a religion wanting to introduce laws in the public sphere based on their religion. This is to be resisted regardless of religion. 

 

Hindus in India have been trying it on for decades going back to the Colonial period. Some of the most rabidly religious Hindus (and thus supporters of the Hindu chauvinist PM Modi) are in fact expatriates living in America. They may be doctors and software engineers, but below that meek exterior, they can be religiously fanatical. They would love to introduce a beef ban, but realize that it's an unrealistic goal.

 

The loony hodgepodge of alcohol restrictions in Thailand is a result of a messy compromise between business interests and religious activists. You don't think the true believers would prefer a complete ban?

 

In Sri Lanka Sinhalese buddhists have rioted and massacred Tamil Hindus on various occasions and lobby for stricter Buddhism based laws.

 

The maltreatment of the Rohingya in Burma and Ang Sang Su Chi's meek response to their human rights violations is linked to Buddhist chauvinism and the government's desire to retain majority Buddhist support. Those fundamentalists would no sought like more input into government law-making.

 

Mormons until recently were still trying to legalize bigamy. If they had the numbers or power, you don't think they would? In the Mormon majority state of Utah, alcohol laws are probably the most restrictive in America.

 

Many religions are prone to chauvinism. That is the nature of religion for the simple reason that true believers KNOW they have the answer to the ultimate truth. Taken to its logical conclusion, how can such people be anything but disdainful of non believers?

 

Today, the flavor of religious violence is mostly Islam. At other times, it's been other religions. In India it is Hinduism in the guise of Shiv Sena, a "social charity"

 

We must therefore be vigilant against any religious infiltration into public life.

 

My contention is that that is not what these protesters against Sharia were doing. There is simply no discernible movement by American Muslims to lobby for sharia law. 

 

Vigilance is always warranted. Disingenuous divisive, hateful protest, not so much.

 

T

 

 

The examples you cite, worn as they are, relate to mostly localized conflicts. There is no issue of international Buddhist terrorism, Hindus do not, on the whole busy themselves with visions of global religious dominance, and the Mormons might be a thing in Utah.

 

Your contention is that Islam is not different. Just the flavor of the day. Yet nothing in what you posted supports this. More like highlights the opposite.

 

To be clear, I do not contest that these demonstrations are bogus. Obviously, Sharia law is not an issue in the US. That said, not into the wholesale denial of that there are issues with its application worldwide. People, in general, do not feel threatened by Buddhists, Hindus and Mormons, because they are all non-issues outside of their "turfs".

 

If you need it spelled out differently, I dunno how much mass support anti-Mormon, Hindu or Buddhist protests would garner - but doubt it would be anything comparable. Of course, that could be just a flavor of the day thing.

[Thakkar]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The examples you cite, worn as they are, relate to mostly localized conflicts. There is no issue of international Buddhist terrorism, Hindus do not, on the whole busy themselves with visions of global religious dominance, and the Mormons might be a thing in Utah.

 

Your contention is that Islam is not different. Just the flavor of the day. Yet nothing in what you posted supports this. More like highlights the opposite.

 

To be clear, I do not contest that these demonstrations are bogus. Obviously, Sharia law is not an issue in the US. That said, not into the wholesale denial of that there are issues with its application worldwide. People, in general, do not feel threatened by Buddhists, Hindus and Mormons, because they are all non-issues outside of their "turfs".

 

If you need it spelled out differently, I dunno how much mass support anti-Mormon, Hindu or Buddhist protests would garner - but doubt it would be anything comparable. Of course, that could be just a flavor of the day thing.

 

On the topic of this thread, we don't disagree.

 

The other stuff is a different topic. I mentioned the other religious issues to illustrate that proselytizing wasn't the issue at hand. Religious interference in law-making was the issue. This is what the protest was ostensibly about, but really wasn't.

 

T

 

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

I don't think the protesters have a political agenda. They are just bigots who want to spread hate and division in the guise of secular politics.

 

The counter protesters' agenda is simply to counter that.

 

I was joshing about Soros. I am aware that you don't subscribe to silly conspiracies.

 

T

 

 

I believe references to to protests representing supposed right wing Islamophobia, and tying it to other right wing "causes" appeared on your previous posts in the topic. No problems with that, not even disagreeing. Just that if one was to sample the counter protestors its pretty likely they'll be "representative" of opposing political agendas.