Gunfire turns U.S. lawmakers' baseball practice into 'killing field'

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

The internet is a powerful medium and while free speech and a free press is critical, so is responsibility for it.  The irresponsible noise level, rancor and rhetoric between political parties and their over-zealous  supporters,  the MSM, and this self styled "Resistance", has crossed a line in the sand. 

 

To be fair, Trump was complicit in ramping up the noise to begin with.  He viewed himself as a resistance figure in his own right - more a change agent than a resistor I suppose, but his clumsy efforts and hip shots were shockingly effective and terribly divisive.

 

However the organized resistance against him has used the internet and like minded MSM outlets with knowing efficiency, emulating a military civil action to form, organize and direct a dissenting insurgency to change government by procedure or coup - whichever comes first.  Crafting and nurturing the narrative, escalating tension, polarizing and dividing the citizenry with escalating bigotry and hate speech and rancor.  Keeping it in the forefront of the cooperative media where 1 paragraph of "new news" is spun into 2,000 words to recycle the talking points, over and over again.  They hit the glass ceiling.  Words alone will not achieve their aim.

 

This event is tantamount to the Orlando nightclub shooing.  A wake up call that The Resistance has crossed the line into the category of domestic terror organization.   I see little difference at this point between AQ or IS shotgunning overtures to its ideological affiliates or a "conservative" militia running around in the woods of Montana, preparing to fight the President from Kenya. 

 

The Resistance knew damn well their fomentation and increasing tension would, eventually, lead to some impressionable and/or unbalanced "lone wolf" committing an act of violence they can use to advance their political objective(s). 

 

In other words.... Terrorism. 

 

 

Remember Gabrielle Giffords. The democratic congresswoman who was shot in the head by Jared Loughner. He actually managed to kill 6 people

Jared Loughner, a right wing loon.

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner}

 

[55Jay]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I don't give a fig what you personally are or are not.

You posted something totally DISGUSTING.

Suggesting that the anti-trump resistance is a terrorist organization. Total garbage.

Are you calling Hillary Clinton a terrorist?

You should RETRACT and apologize. 

You're free to disagree.  I didn't mention Hillary Clinton.  Why do you bring her up?

[Usernames]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Remember Gabrielle Giffords. The democratic congresswoman who was shot in the head by Jared Loughner. He actually managed to kill 6 people

Jared Loughner, a right wing loon.

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner}

 

Wrong again. "Ultimately, it seems illegitimate to tie Loughner to the mainstream right or mainstream left, as his beliefs were well within the realm of the fringe. Indeed, Loughner appears to have simply been a disturbed individual who lacked a coherent political philosophy other than a deep-seated anti-government sentiment."  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-does-jared-lee-loughner-believe/

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, Usernames said:

Wrong again. "Ultimately, it seems illegitimate to tie Loughner to the mainstream right or mainstream left, as his beliefs were well within the realm of the fringe. Indeed, Loughner appears to have simply been a disturbed individual who lacked a coherent political philosophy other than a deep-seated anti-government sentiment."  http://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-does-jared-lee-loughner-believe/

 The tone of Loughner's online writings and videos from immediately before the attack were described by The Guardian as "almost exclusively conservative and anti-government, with echoes of the populist campaigning of the Tea Party movement".^[43]

[rijb]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Yes right. How many times have we heard from Trump's defenders "I didn't vote for Trump but..."  Look up "concern trolling."

You ought to at least know what it is you're doing.

And how many times have we seen your tiresome, simplistic response?

 

You McCarthyist types assume that anyone who is not foaming at the mouth about Trump, must be a Trump defender.

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

You're free to disagree.  I didn't mention Hillary Clinton.  Why do you bring her up?

Seriously dude?!?

You called the entire anti-trump resistance movement a terrorist organization.

That is wrong. You are wrong. Own that inflammatory garbage or retract. Your choice.

 

 

[55Jay]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

He said, exonerating himself. 

I hold no allegiance to any political party or politician.  Who does that anymore? 

 

But this incident is a bell weather.  The knee jerk reactions, while predictable, are just as troubling as the problem itself.  If "we" can't break the cycle on an forum in a SE Asian swamp, not a good indication for an entire country.

Edited June 15, 2017 by 55Jay

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

I hold no allegiance to any political party or politician.  Who does that anymore? 

 

But this incident is a bell weather.  The knee jerk reactions, while predictable, are just as troubling as the problem itself.  If "we" can't break the cycle on an forum in a SE Asian swamp, not a good indication for an entire country.

Dude. This is getting surreal. You think you're taking the moral high ground while in a most disgusting inflammatory way trying to label the anti-trump resistance movement as a terrorist organization? Nice try. Epic fail.

You can't undo that assertion unless you literally retract it, which you don't seem willing to do, so you have now owned it. 

It's similar to trump jr. saying explicitly that democrats (largely part of the anti-trump resistance) are not even PEOPLE!

If you're the voice of reasonableness, indeed we're further down the rat hole than I thought. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by Jingthing

[ilostmypassword]

 

2 minutes ago, rijb said:

And how many times have we seen your tiresome, simplistic response?

 

You McCarthyist types assume that anyone who is not foaming at the mouth about Trump, must be a Trump defender.

Anybody who write this kind of unbalanced nonsense:

However the organized resistance against him has used the internet and like minded MSM outlets with knowing efficiency, emulating a military civil action to form, organize and direct a dissenting insurgency to change government by procedure or coup - whichever comes first.

Or this:

The Resistance knew damn well their fomentation and increasing tension would, eventually, lead to some impressionable and/or unbalanced "lone wolf" committing an act of violence they can use to advance their political objective(s). 

Is clearly ranting. I can't speak to the foaming at the mouth but I am relieved that rabies is not contagious via the internet.

 

[55Jay]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Seriously dude?!?

You called the entire anti-trump resistance movement a terrorist organization.

That is wrong. You are wrong. Own that inflammatory garbage or retract. Your choice.

I understand why you are reacting this way.  Your methods of squelching dissent and other views you don't agree with on TVF are also transparent by now.  I appreciate you giving me an ultimatum and a choice.  Thank you.

 

The Resistance better get a handle on this.  Pronto.

[55Jay]

22 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Remember Gabrielle Giffords. The democratic congresswoman who was shot in the head by Jared Loughner. He actually managed to kill 6 people

Jared Loughner, a right wing loon.

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner}

 

Yes, I do.  I actually pulled that up to confirm his political leanings.  Another great example of how this political rancor gets out of hand. 

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Seriously dude?!?

You called the entire anti-trump resistance movement a terrorist organization.

That is wrong. You are wrong. Own that inflammatory garbage or retract. Your choice.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

I understand why you are reacting this way.  Your methods of squelching dissent and other views you don't agree with on TVF are also transparent by now.  I appreciate you giving me an ultimatum and a choice.  Thank you.

 

The Resistance better get a handle on this.  Pronto.

Actually, he was being merciful and offering you an opportunity to retract that nonsense. A loon attempts an assassination and now the MSM is part of a terrorist organization?

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

I understand why you are reacting this way.  Your methods of squelching dissent and other views you don't agree with on TVF are also transparent by now.  I appreciate you giving me an ultimatum and a choice.  Thank you.

 

The Resistance better get a handle on this.  Pronto.

You're dodging. Either you think Hillary Clinton is a terrorist or you don't. You labelled the resistance as a terror organization and Hillary Clinton has explicitly identified herself as a member of the resistance. You have called Hillary Clinton a terrorist and you refuse to retract. I don't know who you think you're fooling. The smart thing for you to do now instead of launching a personal attack on me is admit quite simply that you were wrong and the anti-trump resistance is NOT a terrorist organization.

This isn't trivial. 
You say you aren't partisan but this is where things are at now. 

With your inflammatory rhetoric you have indeed whether you realize it or not directly affiliated yourself with the most EXTREMIST of the trumpists, as in trump's son stating that democrats aren't even people.

That is what people do in wartime.

Dehumanize the enemy.

Of course calling the resistance (most democrats) "terrorists" -- that dehumanizes them and suggests they aren't even people. 

You act like you're a voice of reason and moderation.

With your terrorism charge, you have explicitly allied yourself with the most extremist of the trumpists.

 

Look, the U.S. may indeed be heading towards a real civil war. Hopefully not, but just imagine how authoritarian nutcase trump will react if he really is forced out of office knowing he has about 30 percent of the population (mostly with guns) on his side. He's not the resigning kind. 

 

Your "terrorist" rhetoric is the kind of thing that increases that dark possibility. Instead you act innocent, the moderate. Nobody is fooled. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by Jingthing

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, 55Jay said:

Yes, I do.  I actually pulled that up to confirm his political leanings.  Another great example of how this political rancor gets out of hand. 

So by your light we have the tea party infowars terrorist conspiracy on the right and the MSM-Resistance terrorist conspiracy on the left.

[mikebike]

36 minutes ago, Usernames said:

Just put up one around SF/LA/NYC/BOS/PHIL and a few others and make the fictionalized Escape from New York a reality.  Nobody needs to lay siege to these places. People living in urban environment are already living on the edge. If even the electricity goes out for a few days, they'll be going after each other with baseball bats and broken bottles.

I remember that!! The northeast blackout of 2003. I took out my neighbors on both sides with my bare hands, barricaded the house with sandbags and set up the 50 cal!! See, I can live in a fantasy world too!!

[55Jay]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Dude. This is getting surreal. You think you're taking the moral high ground while in a most disgusting inflammatory way trying to label the anti-trump resistance movement as a terrorist organization? Nice try. Epic fail.

You can't undo that assertion unless you literally retract it, which you don't seem willing to do, so you have now owned it. 

It's similar to trump jr. saying explicitly that democrats (largely part of the anti-trump resistance) are not even PEOPLE!

If you're the voice of reasonableness, indeed we're further down the rat hole than I thought. 

I agree, it is surreal.  And you can run me down if you want, you're just baiting.

 

This is about manipulation for political objectives.  It's not a revelation but I see this incident as a sad milestone in current political landscape.  

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Actually, he was being merciful and offering you an opportunity to retract that nonsense. A loon attempts an assassination and now the MSM is part of a terrorist organization?

LOL. 

 

Surely you, of all people, understand civil actions and how they are conducted.

[55Jay]

31 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Anybody who write this kind of unbalanced nonsense:

However the organized resistance against him has used the internet and like minded MSM outlets with knowing efficiency, emulating a military civil action to form, organize and direct a dissenting insurgency to change government by procedure or coup - whichever comes first.

Or this:

The Resistance knew damn well their fomentation and increasing tension would, eventually, lead to some impressionable and/or unbalanced "lone wolf" committing an act of violence they can use to advance their political objective(s). 

Is clearly ranting. I can't speak to the foaming at the mouth but I am relieved that rabies is not contagious via the internet.

 

Not ranting and you know it.  Nice try.

Edited June 15, 2017 by 55Jay

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, 55Jay said:

I agree, it is surreal.  And you can run me down if you want, you're just baiting.

 

This is about manipulation for political objectives.  It's not a revelation but I see this incident as a sad milestone in current political landscape.  

LOL. 

 

Surely you, of all people, understand civil actions and how they are conducted.

You mean that terrorism is just a civil offense, not a criminal one?  Like Trump University?

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

So by your light we have the tea party infowars terrorist conspiracy on the right and the MSM-Resistance terrorist conspiracy on the left.

What <deleted> are you on about?

[55Jay]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

You mean that terrorism is just a civil offense, not a criminal one?  Like Trump University?

LOL. 

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, 55Jay said:

Not ranting and you know it.  Nice try.

No, I don't know it. Accusing the MSM of being part of a terrorist organization is just plain nuts.  Unless you're quoting someone else, saying things that are just plain nuts is what ranting is.

[55Jay]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

No, I don't know it. Accusing the MSM of being part of a terrorist organization is just plain nuts.  Unless you're quoting someone else, saying things that are just plain nuts is what ranting is.

You know it's not that black and white.  Come on, pull your head out.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

You know it's not that black and white.  Come on, pull your head out.

Maybe next time you write something you should read it before posting. I'm not the one who made wild accusations.

[Usernames]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

 The tone of Loughner's online writings and videos from immediately before the attack were described by The Guardian as "almost exclusively conservative and anti-government, with echoes of the populist campaigning of the Tea Party movement".^[43]

Oh, The Guardian.  Now, that's a really objective source. 

[selftaopath]

53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're dodging. Either you think Hillary Clinton is a terrorist or you don't. You labelled the resistance as a terror organization and Hillary Clinton has explicitly identified herself as a member of the resistance. You have called Hillary Clinton a terrorist and you refuse to retract. I don't know who you think you're fooling. The smart thing for you to do now instead of launching a personal attack on me is admit quite simply that you were wrong and the anti-trump resistance is NOT a terrorist organization.

This isn't trivial. 
You say you aren't partisan but this is where things are at now. 

With your inflammatory rhetoric you have indeed whether you realize it or not directly affiliated yourself with the most EXTREMIST of the trumpists, as in trump's son stating that democrats aren't even people.

That is what people do in wartime.

Dehumanize the enemy.

Of course calling the resistance (most democrats) "terrorists" -- that dehumanizes them and suggests they aren't even people. 

You act like you're a voice of reason and moderation.

With your terrorism charge, you have explicitly allied yourself with the most extremist of the trumpists.

 

Look, the U.S. may indeed be heading towards a real civil war. Hopefully not, but just imagine how authoritarian nutcase trump will react if he really is forced out of office knowing he has about 30 percent of the population (mostly with guns) on his side. He's not the resigning kind. 

 

Your "terrorist" rhetoric is the kind of thing that increases that dark possibility. Instead you act innocent, the moderate. Nobody is fooled. 

Do any 45 defenders admit being wrong? That would go against their "messiah's" approach to everything. He won't admit so I suspect neither will any of them. Mental illness is fraught with lies/denial/rationalization/delusion etc.

[55Jay]

2 hours ago, 55Jay said:

The internet is a powerful medium and while free speech and a free press is critical, so is responsibility for it.  The irresponsible noise level, rancor and rhetoric between political parties and their over-zealous  supporters,  the MSM, and this self styled "Resistance", has crossed a line in the sand. 

 

To be fair, Trump was complicit in ramping up the noise to begin with.  He viewed himself as a resistance figure in his own right - more a change agent than a resistor I suppose, but his clumsy efforts and hip shots were shockingly effective and terribly divisive.

 

However the organized resistance against him has used the internet and like minded MSM outlets with knowing efficiency, emulating a military civil action to form, organize and direct a dissenting insurgency to change government by procedure or coup - whichever comes first.  Crafting and nurturing the narrative, escalating tension, polarizing and dividing the citizenry with escalating bigotry and hate speech and rancor.  Keeping it in the forefront of the cooperative media where 1 paragraph of "new news" is spun into 2,000 words to recycle the talking points, over and over again.  They hit the glass ceiling.  Words alone will not achieve their aim.

 

This event is tantamount to the Orlando nightclub shooing.  A wake up call that The Resistance has crossed the line into the category of domestic terror organization.   I see little difference at this point between AQ or IS shotgunning overtures to its ideological affiliates or a "conservative" militia running around in the woods of Montana, preparing to fight the President from Kenya. 

 

The Resistance knew damn well their fomentation and increasing tension would, eventually, lead to some impressionable and/or unbalanced "lone wolf" committing an act of violence they can use to advance their political objective(s). 

 

In other words.... Terrorism. 

 

 

It's time to take it down a notch. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by 55Jay

[mikebike]

3 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

In other words.... Terrorism. 

Interesting. Would you consider Dylann Roof's attack terrorism?

[WaywardWind]

1 hour ago, Usernames said:

Oh, my, facts seem to equate to intimidation and an attempt to divide in your mind.  And the facts are these: there are over 3000 counties in the US; left wing Blue counties are located in just over 140 of them; mostly those counties are on the coastline or in bankrupt Chicago and consist altogether across the country of less than 10 percent of the land mass of the US. Maybe Trump is building the WALL in the wrong spots.  Just put up one around SF/LA/NYC/BOS/PHIL and a few others and make the fictionalized Escape from New York a reality.  Nobody needs to lay siege to these places. People living in urban environment are already living on the edge. If even the electricity goes out for a few days, they'll be going after each other with baseball bats and broken bottles. 

Yup, that's what it says right there in the Constitution: one acre, one vote...

 

How could I have missed that?

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Usernames said:

Oh, my, facts seem to equate to intimidation and an attempt to divide in your mind.  And the facts are these: there are over 3000 counties in the US; left wing Blue counties are located in just over 140 of them; mostly those counties are on the coastline or in bankrupt Chicago and consist altogether across the country of less than 10 percent of the land mass of the US. Maybe Trump is building the WALL in the wrong spots.  Just put up one around SF/LA/NYC/BOS/PHIL and a few others and make the fictionalized Escape from New York a reality.  Nobody needs to lay siege to these places. People living in urban environment are already living on the edge. If even the electricity goes out for a few days, they'll be going after each other with baseball bats and broken bottles. 

Not only is your claim about counties completely irrelevant to the number of voters but it's demonstrably false. This was a lie started by Breitbart (who else?) that claimed Clinton won only 57 counties in the USA. It shows how degraded the faculties of the right wing has become that large numbers of Trump supporters actually believed this. Now apparently the number has been upped to 140.  Actually for what it's worth, the more accurate number is at least either 487 or 489 depending on whether you go with Politifact or the AP.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/12/clinton-counties/

 

[55Jay]

34 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Interesting. Would you consider Dylann Roof's attack terrorism?

Comes down to motivation.  Suppose he could be a domestic terrorist if his aim was to, somehow, change or do away with US civil rights laws.  Appears he was a racist, aligned with white supremacy, and is very unapologetic about not liking black folks.

 

Back to my point though, no doubt the internet played a part in his radicalization.  At some point, words and ideas are turned into action by those vulnerable to repetitive messaging and suggestion. 

 

I'm not opposed to The Resistance.  I am not a Trump defender or even a "liker". 

 

I am opposed to the level of rancor and discord on display which, sad to say, eventually, and inevitably, will lead to events like this.   I also put the blame for this new "low bar" in American politics at the feet of both Candidate and President Trump. 

 

And to HRC, if anything, I would expect her to take sensible leadership role and not engage in hysterics; and I think she could have a calming effect, if she's so inclined.   End of the day, Trump can be taken down (if he doesn't do it to himself first) without the ever-escalating drama.  You can chew somebody out and fire them without ever raising your voice. 

Edited June 15, 2017 by 55Jay