Family declines autopsy for U.S. student released by North Korea

[webfact]

Family declines autopsy for U.S. student released by North Korea

By Jonathan Allen

 

Otto Frederick Warmbier (C), a University of Virginia student who was detained in North Korea since early January, is taken out of North Korea's top court after being sentenced, in Pyongyang, North Korea, in this photo released by Kyodo March 16, 2016. REUTERS/Kyodo

 

(Reuters) - An Ohio coroner, abiding by family wishes, has performed an external examination instead of a full autopsy on the body of the U.S. student who was held prisoner in North Korea for 17 months and sent home in a coma, the agency said on Tuesday.

 

The Hamilton County Coroner's Office was still conferring on Tuesday with doctors at a Cincinnati hospital who were treating Otto Warmbier, 22, before reaching any conclusions about his death a day earlier, investigator Daryl Zornes said.

 

Investigators also were continuing to review radiological images and awaiting additional medical records requested by the coroner, Zornes told Reuters.

 

He declined to estimate how long it would take for the coroner's office to complete its inquiry. Preliminary autopsy findings had been expected later on Tuesday or on Wednesday.

 

There was no immediate word from the family about why relatives declined an autopsy, which may have shed more light on the cause of the neurological injuries that left him in a coma.

 

Warmbier's death came just days after he was released by the North Korean government and returned to the United States suffering from what U.S. doctors described as extensive brain damage.

 

Warmbier, an Ohio native and student at the University of Virginia, was arrested in North Korea in January 2016 while visiting as a tourist. He was sentenced two months later to 15 years of hard labour for trying to steal an item bearing a propaganda slogan from his hotel in North Korea's capital, Pyongyang, the nation's state media said.

 

The circumstances of his detention and what medical treatment he received in North Korea remain unknown. The United States has demanded North Korea release three other U.S. citizens it holds in detention: missionary Kim Dong Chul and academics Tony Kim and Kim Hak Song. (Graphic of Americans held by North Korea: http://tmsnrt.rs/2pmE3ks)

 

Warmbier's death has only heightened U.S.-North Korean tensions aggravated by dozens of North Korean missile launches and two nuclear bomb tests since last year in defiance of U.N. Security Council resolutions. The North Korean government has vowed to develop a nuclear-tipped intercontinental missile capable of hitting the U.S. mainland.

 

Warmbier's family has not specified how he slipped from a comatose state to death, but said in a statement on Monday that the "awful torturous mistreatment" he endured while in captivity meant "no other outcome was possible."

 

Relatives have said they were told by U.S. envoys that North Korean officials claimed Warmbier contracted botulism after his trial and lapsed into a coma after taking a sleeping pill. Fred Warmbier, the student's father, has said he disbelieves this account.

 

North Korea's government said it released Warmbier last week on "humanitarian grounds."

 

U.S. President Donald Trump said on Tuesday he had spoken with Warmbier's family and praised them as "incredible."

 

"It's a total disgrace what happened to Otto," Trump told reporters in the White House, where he was meeting with Ukrainian President Petro Proshenko. "And frankly, if he were brought home sooner, I think the results would have been a lot different."

 

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said the administration would "continue to apply economic and political pressure" on North Korea, in conjunction with U.S. allies and China, "to change this behaviour and this regime."

 

Trump said on Twitter on Tuesday he appreciated efforts by Chinese President Xi Jinping "to help with North Korea," adding "It has not worked out. At least I know China tried!"

 

The government of China, North Korea's main ally, said Warmbier's death was a tragedy.

 

(Reporting by Jonathan Allen in New York; Writing by Steve Gorman; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn and Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-06-21

[stevenl]

I understand not wanting an autopsy, I would not want it done on myself as well. But in a situation like this?

[simple1]

45 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I understand not wanting an autopsy, I would not want it done on myself as well. But in a situation like this?

religious beliefs?

[Scott]

No idea if it was religious or not, but he was Jewish.  

[tonray]

Likely not much can be learned here. MRI scans have already determined loss of brain tissue, no signs of healing or healed broken bones or other physical trauma. They already know that perhaps the only thing that can cause loss of brain tissue like that (and they have the scans from North Korea one month after he fell ill) is loss of oxygen to the brain. So really the only question is what cause the acute loss of oxygen ? Choke Hold, Illness, Suicide attempt, ? we will never know and unlikely an autopsy would tell anything.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[williamgeorgeallen]

he rolled the dice going to north korea, then again by committing theft. 

[evadgib]

Interesting clip from the beeb:

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40350046

[Srikcir]

Lack of an official autopsy will block any wrongful death lawsuit against North Korea.

Very shortsighted. Anything collected against North Korea could be used for philanthropic or religious foundation in Otto's name.

 

[CharlieK]

29 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Lack of an official autopsy will block any wrongful death lawsuit against North Korea.

Very shortsighted. Anything collected against North Korea could be used for philanthropic or religious foundation in Otto's name.

 

And you think N Korea would be worried about any lawsuit emanating from the US. They would probably laugh at the idea. No way would they pay compensation.

Edited June 21, 2017 by CharlieK

[stevenl]

46 minutes ago, CharlieK said:

And you think N Korea would be worried about any lawsuit emanating from the US. They would probably laugh at the idea. No way would they pay compensation.

Of course compensation would not be paid.

 

But they were blaming NK for what happened to their son. They may be right, they may be wrong, but not having an autopsy done greatly reduces the chances of anybody ever knowing. And if they are right and NK is to blame, it would mean the pressure could be increased.

 

Maybe Simple is right and it is for religious reasons. Or maybe they know there was an increased risk for this happening to their son due to some underlying problem.

[overherebc]

Not having an autopsy done means the blame for his death lands on the NK authorities. ( The bad boys must have done it )

Political or religious reasons for not doing it, I don't know. 

Does the family/US Government want to cover up something we don't know about? You tell me.

News and newspapers, believe the date, the rest of it, decide for yourself.

 

[CharlieK]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Of course compensation would not be paid.

 

But they were blaming NK for what happened to their son. They may be right, they may be wrong, but not having an autopsy done greatly reduces the chances of anybody ever knowing. And if they are right and NK is to blame, it would mean the pressure could be increased.

 

Maybe Simple is right and it is for religious reasons. Or maybe they know there was an increased risk for this happening to their son due to some underlying problem.

If you take resent events with NK launching missiles, and the total failure of even China in persuading them to stop. Just how would knowing the reason behind this guys death going to add pressure? NK haven't buckled under any sort of pressure over the years and this is in the greater scheme of things a minor incident in comparison. And do you really think NK really care? 

 

The Jewish belief in the inviolability of the human body is reflect­ed in its attitude to postmortem examinations. The Talmud(San­hedrin 47a) asserts that the biblical imperative of speedy burial (Deuteronomy 21:22-23) is based upon the prohibition of disgrac­ing a corpse. The scope of this prohibition extends beyond delayed burial. Scripture proscribes the inflicting of any form of disgrace upon a corpse. In general, this includes the disfigurement of the body as a result of postmortem dissection (autopsy).

Edited June 21, 2017 by CharlieK

[YetAnother]

my guess is that family is just emotionally drained

[onthesoi]

No criminals ever died in custody or in prison in America?

 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by onthesoi

[Langsuan Man]

45 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

No criminals ever died in custody or in prison in America?

 

 

Not without an autopsy being performed, with or without the families permission 

[Credo]

59 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

No criminals ever died in custody or in prison in America?

 

 

I am not sure what you point is.   He fell into a coma under suspicious circumstances.   They said he had botulism, but blood tests show that he did not and that he took a sleeping pill.   I wonder if the NK have a dispensary where you can just pick up some medication when you feel like it.  

 

Prisoners die in custody all the time.   Some even get a sentence which ensures that they will die in custody.   The cause of death will be determined and any activity contributing to the death will be investigated and action will be taken against those found culpable.  

[onthesoi]

13 minutes ago, Credo said:

I am not sure what you point is.   He fell into a coma under suspicious circumstances.   They said he had botulism, but blood tests show that he did not and that he took a sleeping pill.   I wonder if the NK have a dispensary where you can just pick up some medication when you feel like it.  

 

Prisoners die in custody all the time.   Some even get a sentence which ensures that they will die in custody.   The cause of death will be determined and any activity contributing to the death will be investigated and action will be taken against those found culpable.  

 

My point is the US making a big hoo ha over the fact an American has taken ill while in a North Korean prison while ignoring their own death in custody record. 

 

Suspicious circumstances? You've just said yourself "Prisoners die in custody all the time. ".

I've yet to hear a shred of evidence of foul play & this refusal to have an autopsy just muddies the waters even further, I wouldn't be surprised if the family were 'talked into' not wanting an autopsy by those wanting to milk the propaganda value.

[Credo]

43 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

My point is the US making a big hoo ha over the fact an American has taken ill while in a North Korean prison while ignoring their own death in custody record. 

 

Suspicious circumstances? You've just said yourself "Prisoners die in custody all the time. ".

I've yet to hear a shred of evidence of foul play & this refusal to have an autopsy just muddies the waters even further, I wouldn't be surprised if the family were 'talked into' not wanting an autopsy by those wanting to milk the propaganda value.

Oh, pleazeeeee, how many prisoners end up in a coma, resulting in death which was most likely caused by a lack of oxygen without some foul play occurring?   If there was no foul play, why did the NK's lie about it?