Filing for US Social Security from Thailand

[NancyL]

30 minutes ago, missoura said:

Just received my 1st ever retirement check from Uncle Sam, just can't believe that I am that damn old. Anyway, here is my experience from Thailand.

• Applied online (taxes, passport, bank info).
• Received a phone call from Manila.
• Received a letter from the Maryland confirming my SS bennies.
• Waited 3 months.
• Payment received on the 4th of August. All international people who use international addresses will receive their check on this date. An American bank goes by birthdays.
• Bangkok Bank had issued an ATM card, which upon checking today, works.

Overall, relative painless. On a final note let me add that the SS database did check my Thailand Provident Fund and lowered my monthly amount accordingly. I could appeal but probably just a waste of time.

Just to clarify, the Bangkok Bank ATM isn't tied to the account where SSA deposits your monthly payment, is it?  Don't you have to rock up in person each month at BB, show your passport and transfer the money into a second BB account -- the one with the ATM card?

[George Bowman]

I was told that Bangkok Bank is the only bank that SS uses.I had an account with them already but had to open up a new account for SS deposits.  Today, I was prepared to arrive at the bank, show some ID and withdraw money. On a whim, I decided to use the ATM instead. It worked.

[Pib]

Expect that ATM card is tied to your regular Bangkok Bank savings account and not the Direct Deposit account.   The special Direct Deposit account does not come with an ATM card....nor can you do ibanking transafers out....you have to show up in person to withdraw money.

 

So, you have two bank accounts with Bangkok Bank...a regular savings account that you can have an ATM card with, do ibanking transfers out, etc.,  And then the special Direct Deposit account that does not come with an ATM card, ibanking transfer out capability, etc...you must show up in person at a branch to get/transfer money from the account.

 

When you say you received your 1st SS retirement check I'm assuming you meant via Direct Deposit since folks living outside the U.S. get paid on the 3rd (U.S. date) which is generally the 4th in Thailand due to date/time differential.  

 

What account number did you give the SSA during your application?   Maybe you had it sent to your regular savings account you had already?   The SSA will send your monthly direct deposit to any account number (regular or Direct Deposit savings account) at Bangkok Bank as long as you are using the Bangkok Bank New York routing number.  

 

But it's on the Bangkok Bank end that will cause you problems if trying to send U.S. govt payments to a regular savings account.  Either immediately or within a few months the bank will spot through description and coding on the transfer that it's a reoccurring U.S. govt payment, put the incoming payment on hold, and send you a letter saying you must come in and open a Direct Deposit account with X-weeks to receive these U.S. govt payments or they'll send the funds back.

 

Go update your two passbooks you have for your two accounts to see which account today's ATM withdrawal came out of....you'll find out it came out of your regular savings account....and you'll also see which account your SS direct deposit went into.  If  the deposit went into your regular account you'll need to contact the SSA/Manila to update the account number...change it to the Direct Deposit account.  Otherwise, Bangkok Bank will spot the U.S. govt payment going into the wrong type of account in the near term and send you the letter as mentioned above.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Pib

[NancyL]

Bingo, Pib!  Yup, that's probably what happened.  Perhaps when missoura applied for SS, s/he gave SSA their regular BB account number, not an account number for a special SS direct deposit account.  BB will catch up within short order.  SSA doesn't really care, but BB does.  This is because if someone dies, SSA expects BB to give back the funds.

 

Interestingly, Hubby's private pension from a U.S. company is direct deposited into our joint BB savings account.  I expect that company will be vexed if I fail to notify them of his death and continue to receive his monthly payment, yet there is no requirement that he show up in person at BB each month to sign in to receive the funds.

 

And conversely, Hubby's SS monthly payment is direct deposited into our U.S. credit union account -- a joint account -- with no need for him to show up in person to claim the funds.  

 

All this need to show up in person at a bank to claim the funds in person seems to be a requirement manufactured by Bangkok Bank, not the U.S. gov't.

[Pib]

Yeap...only U.S. govt payments need to go to the special Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account which can only be in the pensioners name.  However, pension payments from private companies can go into a regular savings account whether a joint account or single owner account.

 

The rules for this Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account for U.S. govt payments are established by Bangkok Bank and not the SSA.

 

Bangkok Bank does it purely to help prevent fraudulent transactions and preserve this profitable service to them (i.e., the transfer fees they earn).... and of course a valuable service to U.S. persons.  Prevent fraudulent transactions such as the pensioner passing away and if joint accounts were allowed for the Direct Deposit account( which are not) the joint owner (usually a spouse) either knowingly or unknowingly fails to notify the proper authorities of the pensioner's passing after the pensioner is quietly barbecued at the local temple (or just buried in the back yard).   In many 3d world countries such as Thailand the system used to reporting deaths to the proper authorities can be slow and/or corrupted...but in 1st world countries notification of death flows quickly and by numerous channels. 

 

The payments continue to flow-in and that joint owner/spouse continues to withdraw the funds in person, via ATM card, ibanking, etc.  HOWEVER, BUT, since the Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit can only be in one person's name, the pensioner, and the pensioner can not have an ATM card with the account nor ibanking transfer out capability which some one else might get their hands on to do withdrawals......and  the pensioner must show up in person at a branch to withdraw/transfer money, the probability  of fraudulent transactions is greatly reduced.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Pib

[George Bowman]

. I knew there had to be a hiccup when dealing with both the SS bureaucracy and Thailand's big business practices. The bank form that was used came from the SS website but was filled out by the bank manager. I will no doubt find out sooner or later what needs to be done. Thanks so much for the information.

[amvet]

3 hours ago, missoura said:

. I knew there had to be a hiccup when dealing with both the SS bureaucracy and Thailand's big business practices. The bank form that was used came from the SS website but was filled out by the bank manager. I will no doubt find out sooner or later what needs to be done. Thanks so much for the information.

Update your bankbook and see if the SS payment is in the same account that you have the ATM card for.  Your SS payment should have gotten there in the last day or so.  If yes then you don't have a direct deposit account.  There is only one lady at Bangkok Bank who knows how to set up the account and she is at the Bangkok office.  Get her phone number (she speaks English) and call her from the bank managers office of your branch (use your phone).  Hand the phone to the branch manager and she will tell him how to set up the account.   Remember Thailand is a little country about the size of Florida and things are done in a small way here.  Maybe someone has here name and number.  She set mine up about 5 years ago.  I don't know if I still have her number.  Or maybe she has trained some else by now.  Sometimes wonders never cease.

[NancyL]

In cities with large numbers of American retirees there are local BB personal who understand how to set up a direct deposit account for receiving U.S. gov't payments.  Not at every branch, but the larger ones.  Here in Chiang Mai, people at the Kad Suan Kaew, Central Airport Plaza, Central Festival, Mae Rim branches, for example know how to set up a new account that is suitable for receiving U.S. gov't monthly benefit payments, such as Social Security or VA payments.  I would imagine the situation is the same in Pattaya, Phuket, Hua Hin and probably Udon Thani.

 

But otherwise, punch up 1333 on your mobile phone during business hours, carefully work through the BB voicemail tree and eventually you'll be connected with someone in Bangkok at the BB HQ who can 'splain the procedure to the folks in your local BB branch in Nakorn Nowhereburi.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

18 hours ago, missoura said:

Applied online (taxes, passport, bank info).

Which account number did you use when you did it.

4 hours ago, missoura said:

. I knew there had to be a hiccup when dealing with both the SS bureaucracy and Thailand's big business practices. The bank form that was used came from the SS website but was filled out by the bank manager. I will no doubt find out sooner or later what needs to be done. Thanks so much for the information.

If you used the your existing account when you applied I suspect that the SF1199A form that Bangkok bank submitted to Manila when you opened the direct deposit account did not get entered into the system. I suggest you go online to check which account is shown for direct deposits now and if wrong change it.

[Pib]

7 hours ago, missoura said:

. I knew there had to be a hiccup when dealing with both the SS bureaucracy and Thailand's big business practices. The bank form that was used came from the SS website but was filled out by the bank manager. I will no doubt find out sooner or later what needs to be done. Thanks so much for the information.

I expect the form you are referring to is the Standard Form (SF) 1199A Direct Deposit form used by U.S. govt agencies for decades.   It's just a paper form where you enter your name/address/etc., and the bank enters their name/address/etc., along with their bank "routing number" and your "account number."    The form is then sent to the benefits paying agency like the SSA.   Bangkok Bank will do that for you....or if you tell them no need as  you will provide the info to the govt agency then Bangkok Bank don't send it anywhere other than keeping a copy for their files. 

 

This form is not even required no more by Social Security and other govt pension paying agencies except in unique situations as you can just verbally give them the routing and account numbers, update the bank info with your online account, email the info, etc.   It's really just meant to help folks who don't know what their  bank's routing number is and help ensure they provide the correct bank account info to the pension paying agency.  

 

Since you applied online I'm assuming your provided a bank routing number and account number at that time?  So, which account info did you provide on the application?  And when Manila did the telephone interview with them did you give them account info that time?  If so, what was that account number?

 

From your posts it appears you may be unsure which of the two account numbers was used for the direct deposit and which account your ATM card is linked to.  Just take a look at both of your accounts to see which account the SS deposit arrived to.    If it arrived the wrong account (ie., your regular savings account with ATM card), you will need to provide the SSA update account info for your Direct Deposit account....and I sure hope the bank branch did indeed open a Direct Deposit account for you versus just another regular savings account and issued you another ATM card.    

 

But bottomline, if your SS  direct deposit it going to a regular savings account, Bangkok Bank will be placing an hold on incoming payment at some point in the near future....send you that letter....etc...etc...etc.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Pib

[NancyL]

The way to tell if a Bangkok Bank account is a Direct Deposit account suitable for receiving SS/VA benefits is to look at the account title page, where the account holder's name is listed.  The bank branch should have placed a stamp in the lower left that says "Direct Deposit" some Thai words and "ATM"  What that means is that the account is for Direct Deposit and not able to have ATM card access.  

 

You can avoid confusion by writing "SSA Account" on the cover of the bankbook too in a black marker pen, too.

 

We have quite a little collection of Bangkok Bank bankbooks and they're all labeled this way.  

 

Incidentally, you should keep old bankbooks.  Helps if there's any question about the source of incoming funds.  I always write the dates covered by the bankbook on the cover in black marker pen.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

The way to tell if a Bangkok Bank account is a Direct Deposit account suitable for receiving SS/VA benefits is to look at the account title page, where the account holder's name is listed.  The bank branch should have placed a stamp in the lower left that says "Direct Deposit" some Thai words and "ATM"  What that means is that the account is for Direct Deposit and not able to have ATM card access.  

 

Now that stamp on the front page "may or may not be there."   All depends on the bank rep remembering to enter the stamp or having the stamp...it really just an informational stamp.

 

I say that because when I read your post I decided to open the safe and look at my Direct Deposit passbooks....I have two....the original  Direct Deposit passbook issued in 2009 (which is now cancelled) and the replacement passbook I got when updating my passport number....old/original passbook cancelled with issue of the replacement passbook.  Still the same account number and everything...just got a replacement passbook due to passport number change.  Similar to how a person gets a replacement passbook when the old one fills up with entries.     Original and replacement passbook issued at the same branch....the branch on the ground floor of the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd in Bangkok.   

 

Anyway, the original passbook issued in 2009 "did have that stamp you mentioned"....see below.  But the replacement passbook issued in 2015 did not...I looked on every page...front to back.  Maybe the replacement book was suppose to have the stamp but the bank rep just forgot to stamp it since Direct Deposit accounts are not the norm....not something they are use to issuing everyday...just for U.S. folks receiving U.S. govt payments.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

I have never had a stamp like that on my direct deposit books. Just a small stamp that said direct deposit. The one I have now has nothing stamped or written on it.

[kokesaat]

A Thai friend, now retired in Seattle but planning to move back here, wants to have his SSA direct deposited into Bangkok Bank of Udon before he leaves the US.  He does not yet have an account in Udon designed for that. 

Question:  Is there a way for that person to set up his SSA for direct deposit to Udon BEFORE he leaves the US?  I'm assuming a relative in Udon wouldn't be able to do that for him.  

Help is always appreciated.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, kokesaat said:

A Thai friend, now retired in Seattle but planning to move back here, wants to have his SSA direct deposited into Bangkok Bank of Udon before he leaves the US.  He does not yet have an account in Udon designed for that. 

Question:  Is there a way for that person to set up his SSA for direct deposit to Udon BEFORE he leaves the US?  I'm assuming a relative in Udon wouldn't be able to do that for him.  

Help is always appreciated.

Unless he already has a Bangkok Bank it would not be possible to do it.

If he had an account he could give that account number and the routing number for Bangkok Bank in New York to the SSA. Then after he gets here change the account to a direct deposit account.

[kokesaat]

Yeah, I can't imagine the bank opening an account without that person being there in person..........and the SF1199A needs to be signed by that person as well.  I think the best answer is.....wait until he arrives here to make the change himself.

[Pib]

5 hours ago, kokesaat said:

A Thai friend, now retired in Seattle but planning to move back here, wants to have his SSA direct deposited into Bangkok Bank of Udon before he leaves the US.  He does not yet have an account in Udon designed for that. 

Question:  Is there a way for that person to set up his SSA for direct deposit to Udon BEFORE he leaves the US?  I'm assuming a relative in Udon wouldn't be able to do that for him.  

Help is always appreciated.

No-can-do from afar....must show up in person to open a Thai bank account.

 

Assuming he currently has a U.S. bank account that his SSA direct deposit goes to then let it continue to go there.  Your friend can then use his ibanking to manually or automatically transfer an approx equal amount to his Bangkok Bank account via ACH once he gets a Bangkok Bank account....and it don't have to be a special Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account....it can be a regular Bangkok Bank savings account.   Since the funds are  personal transfer with no SSA/U.S. Treasury description or coding, the funds can go into a regular account.  

 

And hopefully his U.S. bank does not charge an ACH sending fee or if they do it low....only a couple of bucks.  When he sends the money this way the funds can go into a regular Bangkok Bank account which comes with a debit card, you can do ibanking transfer-outs, etc....no need to go to a branch to withdraw/transfer funds like you do with the special Direct Deposit account.   Just a possible option.

 

 

[George Bowman]

Yesterday, I went to the BKK Bank branch in P-lok to try and clarify my account. The lady was adamant that my joint account with an ATM card was ok and that is what other Americans do. She gave us the phone number for customer service in BKK and refused to call the office herself for verification.

 

So, an email has been sent to the BKK Bank in order to clear up this issue. Will update when I receive their reply.

 

 

[Pib]

11 minutes ago, missoura said:

Yesterday, I went to the BKK Bank branch in P-lok to try and clarify my account. The lady was adamant that my joint account with an ATM card was ok and that is what other Americans do. She gave us the phone number for customer service in BKK and refused to call the office herself for verification.

 

So, an email has been sent to the BKK Bank in order to clear up this issue. Will update when I receive their reply.

 

 

The bank lady is wrong....she's just trying to save face now.   

[NancyL]

Here is relevant information info from the U.S. Embassy's website about the Bangkok Bank direct deposit accounts for receiving Social Security:

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/federal-benefits/social-security/retirement-benefits/

 

"Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank authorized to receive direct deposits from the U.S. government, and the special direct deposit account will have restrictions. For example, you will not have ATM privileges, check privileges, or access to online banking. Also, you will only be able to withdraw funds in person."

 

[NancyL]

And this from the Bangkok Bank website:

 

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

 

"You can also opt to directly contact the US Government Agencies to send funds into your savings account with Bangkok Bank. However, we still need to request that you change your savings account to a Direct Deposit account. Failure to comply will result in Bangkok Bank not being able to deposit funds transferred from the US Government Agency into your account."

[NancyL]

Missouri, it seems that it's just a matter of time before Bangkok Bank HQ in Bangkok determines that your SS monthly payment shouldn't be going into your regular  joint BB account and puts a stop to it, despite what the local bank employee may say.  She won't be the one with the delayed pension income.  

 

I've found the BB customer service people that you reach by dialing 1333 from a mobile phone after listening very carefully to their voice mail tree to be very helpful, with good English language skills.  

[George Bowman]

Thanks for the info NancyL. Showed the website (in Thai) to the wife and she said "you are right".  %$#@&%$! Been married forever and have lived in this country almost 20 years and it still drives me crazy sometimes. Will head to the bank tomorrow to clear this matter up.

 

Pib is correct.

Edited August 16, 2017 by missoura

[Pib]

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

And this from the Bangkok Bank website:

 

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUSA/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUSA.aspx

 

"You can also opt to directly contact the US Government Agencies to send funds into your savings account with Bangkok Bank. However, we still need to request that you change your savings account to a Direct Deposit account. Failure to comply will result in Bangkok Bank not being able to deposit funds transferred from the US Government Agency into your account."

And as mentioned earlier Bangkok Bank will spot immediately or within a few months the reoccurring U.S. govt payment.  And if still doing what they did before they will put the incoming payment on hold, send you a letter saying you must come in within approx 2 weeks to open a special Direct Deposit account to have the payment sent to, or they will send back/reject the payment to Uncle Sam.

 

Over a half dozen years ago I tried having my U.S. military retirement monthly payment go to my regular Bangkok Bank account and above is what happened to me.

[George Bowman]

As stated earlier this country can make me go crazy, but sometimes in a good way. After perusing the Thai version of the Bangkok Bank website, the wife made a few calls. The end result? Tomorrow, the bank manager is coming out to visit me. I live 27km. from town. 

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, missoura said:

As stated earlier this country can make me go crazy, but sometimes in a good way. After perusing the Thai version of the Bangkok Bank website, the wife made a few calls. The end result? Tomorrow, the bank manager is coming out to visit me. I live 27km. from town. 

Looks like the manager is trying to save face big time.  

 

I've found the Bangkok Bank website to be really very good.  Great source of information and their online banking is easier to use than that for my U.S. credit union.  

[George Bowman]

Well, I'll be damned! The BKK Bank manager and cohorts did show up as promised, apologized and completed the correct forms as required.

 

Signed, A Satisfied Customer.

 

However, I will wait for September's SS retirement check before emailing thanks to both this local branch and the head office in Bangkok.

 

A big thanks to everyone for helping out!

Edited August 18, 2017 by missoura

[Pib]

Glad it's resolved.

Did they leave the regular account alone or did they convert it to a direct deposit acct and take back the debit card?

Or maybe they left the regular acct alone and all the new paperwork was to issue a direct deposit acct which means you now have two accts.

Keep in mind the SSA has to be notified of any new acct you may want your payment to go to. Personally I would do that notification myself vs relying on the bank to send the info. Sept is almost here.

[George Bowman]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

Did they leave the regular account alone or did they convert it to a direct deposit acct and take back the debit card?
 

Yes, the regular account was converted into a direct deposit account. No ATM or joint account. Initially, they wanted to open up a new account and send the information to the states. To many ifs...

[Pib]

Yea...makes sense...because to issue you a new acct with new passbook and debit card (if you also still wanted a regular acct) they would need to do that at the branch where they have the equipment to do so.

Easiest thing was just to recode the regular acct to a direct deposit acct which is just some paperwork and data update since your ultimate need was for an acct your SS pension can go to. All of that correction could be done without you having to go to a branch...just the bank folks coming to you.