Did Thailand get railroaded by the Chinese? no way, govt says

[webfact]

Did Thailand get railroaded by the Chinese? no way, govt says

By Sasiwan Mokkhasen, Staff Reporter

 

Thai Prime Minister Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha with Chinese President Xi Jinping at the APEC summit in Beijing, 11 Nov 2014.

 

BANGKOK — The military government on Tuesday sought to reassure the public that its deal to construct a high-speed railway did not give China the upper hand.

 

Following public discontent after the junta chief used his self-granted absolute power to exempt China from a number of laws for the 179 billion baht project, Prayuth affirmed its construction will use domestic materials and see expertise transferred to Thai workers.

 

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2017/06/21/thailand-get-railroaded-chinese-no-way-govt-says/

 

-- © Copyright Khaosod English 2017-06-21

[yellowboat]

It seemed Thaksin was hovering around Beijing while the negotiations took place.  Think that spooked the fresh coup leaders at the time while they were wanting show some progress.  The junta does not seem to have grasped even some of the most basic, general concepts such as maintenance training.  The Chinese do look as though they have won financially as well.  The coup leaders looked to have signed without asking for a more favorable interest rate. 

[YetAnother]

devious challenge ? my money is on the chinese

[ChrisY1]

Whether this silly rail project actually ever comes to fruition, the 2 generals have saved a lot of face by using the power of Sect.44 to accelerate construction.

Steam-rolled by the Chinese??.....it would appear that some pressure from them has been initiated.....but after 3 years of promises from the generals, something had to happen.

175 Billion?.......probably nearer 300 bn at completion.....!

[halloween]

15 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

It seemed Thaksin was hovering around Beijing while the negotiations took place.  Think that spooked the fresh coup leaders at the time while they were wanting show some progress.  The junta does not seem to have grasped even some of the most basic, general concepts such as maintenance training.  The Chinese do look as though they have won financially as well.  The coup leaders looked to have signed without asking for a more favorable interest rate. 

Not only that, they didn't ask for a loan. Try to keep up.

 

[Redline]

Free military gear in the future 

[Golden Triangle]

If it gets built it will be an accident waiting to happen.

[YetAnother]

way past the point of believing exactly the opposite of what the govt tells you

[williamgeorgeallen]

the chinese are ruthless in business. thats why thailand is owned and run by the thai/chinese. within a few lifetimes they took over the whole of thailand. they have plundered many african countries of their wealth. i have to hand it to them as their foreign business model is better than americas business model of loaning money through the IMF or destabilizing the country through war.

no way thailand got a good deal with this project, the general is just desperate to show some progress after being in power for so long.

Edited June 21, 2017 by williamgeorgeallen

[lvr181]

Would the Government admit they got "railroaded"? NO.

[gandalf12]

I would very much doubt if Thailand would get the better of the Chinese, they are very smart when it comes to business

[maewang99]

how is this different from a previous military general's analysis.... that it is a mystery [????] how Singapore... actually, just a pension fund in Singapore.... can afford to buy a big chunk of a Thai telecom company's equity [AIS].... when they don't have very much agricultural land.....

.... to buy and sell food products??? to make money??? was that the logic?????

Thai thinking always seems to be heavily weighted to a Zero Sum World..... involving primarily money.... or things you can buy and sell.... whether it's food, choo choo trains, submarines or building an "aerolopolis" at U-tapao... or school and university campuses all over the place....... 

and it's never about people.... and what's inside their heads.... starting with the ABC's such as having broad perspectives on 'Theory of Mind' [instead of controlling and suppressing 'emotions' until they explode] ...... a deep understanding and appreciation of the human historical record... beginning with why it only all began about 100,000 years ago.... 

all the way thru to today in 2017 and things such as why 1.5 had to be in the COP21 accord because chemical veiling is the last option and there are connecting dots between uniform cooling... and the Monsoon Cycle.... [ unless you are Thai, apparently ]..... and how big India already looms in any discussion of Climate Change mitigation.... yet it is left out of Thai discussions.. I guess because we call it the Rainy Season instead of monsoons..... is that it?

it's pretty darn obvious there's something going on in one place..... and not in the other...

[ did ya notice that it was Oliver Morton that hosted the last of the Cambridge series a few weeks ago on CCS etc.?... nah... that's only the most important topic concerning our entire progeny... nah... and Kevin Anderson who? the soccer guy????  ]

how is it that Thailand is absent on this but not India??????

how is that?  a specific example of this same kind of 'thinking' ..... 
 

.... India... not China.... but same same.....
 

....so what all do ya have???? well, plenty of arm waving in the air and announcments that... what? we are just as good as any Chinese at memorizing the multiplication tables.... and spelling words so good we can win regional Scrabble contest playoffs.... so that only leaves us with money as a game to play.... say what????? 

is that the 'logic'?

am I at all within the baseball park on this stuff?

 

 

  


 

Edited June 22, 2017 by maewang99

[maoro2013]

11 hours ago, halloween said:

Not only that, they didn't ask for a loan. Try to keep up.

 

They didn't ask for a loan from the Chinese.

[Chris Lawrence]

12 hours ago, halloween said:

Not only that, they didn't ask for a loan. Try to keep up.

 

So you and only you know how this project is going to be funded?

 

"On transparency, Sumet said, the government needs to disclose full details of the economic and financial feasibility study on this project prior to granting approval and signing the contract." reported 3 days ago.

 

"Thailand will largely fund the project and China will provide technical assistance under terms agreed so far. The rail project, however, has hit various delays over details including construction funding and technical assistance." reported 8 days ago.

 

So where is the money coming from keeping in mind the big spending on military items and the 7 billion baht the mad monk ear marked for Police station upgrades?

 

Hallo, you just don't make sense.

[sawadeeken]

13 hours ago, halloween said:

Not only that, they didn't ask for a loan. Try to keep up.

 

       "PM: No loan to be sought from China for high-speed rail project"

NO PROBLEM.......... Don't need to borrow........

The PM already has his eye on the School Education Funds..........

Thai children don't need an education.... so the upper class Thai's will have a big pool of 'POOR' to clean their Hiso homes.............. LOL........

[Srikcir]

12 hours ago, halloween said:

Not only that, they didn't ask for a loan

Really irrelevant.

The junta's decision to build this project wasn't economically-based but politically-based:

"Stung by criticism from the West and Japan for suppressing democracy, it chose China to build the railway....

and no one in government has yet been able to explain exactly why we need a high-speed railway, a proposal always shunned previously as being without merit and simply too expensive."  http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/opinion/today_editorial/30318552

 

Current procurement laws would have made Prayut's unilateral selection of China to supply a high speed rail system difficult because the project bid must meet the median estimated price. But by invoking Article 44 “There would be no median price ...." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/business/30318643

The justification for cost of the project was then politically motivated. The Thai military in essence ingratiated itself to the Chinese regime to help China develop its multi-nation Silk Road economic plan with expectations of a reciprocal political partnership. Something the junta would not get with Japan or France.

 

[Paul Henry]

The PM states Thai materials will be used in the construction.Two main inputs will be steel and labour neither of which the Thais can supply.Only leaves ground form work and engineering skills, well 1 out of 4 not bad.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

as usual here the thais will work and pay and the chinese control the business.have you ever counted all the businesses closed on chinese new year?

[halloween]

2 hours ago, Chris Lawrence said:

So you and only you know how this project is going to be funded?

 

"On transparency, Sumet said, the government needs to disclose full details of the economic and financial feasibility study on this project prior to granting approval and signing the contract." reported 3 days ago.

 

"Thailand will largely fund the project and China will provide technical assistance under terms agreed so far. The rail project, however, has hit various delays over details including construction funding and technical assistance." reported 8 days ago.

 

So where is the money coming from keeping in mind the big spending on military items and the 7 billion baht the mad monk ear marked for Police station upgrades?

 

Hallo, you just don't make sense.

I know what was publicly declared in the press, which was there was no loan from the Chinese, which made the claim that they were paying too high an interest rate TO THE CHINESE, quite silly.  If you expect omniscience, seek elsewhere.

What your 2 irrelevant quotes have to do with the subject, or with what I posted is hard to discern. Then again I don't expect logic from you.

[halloween]

2 hours ago, sawadeeken said:

       "PM: No loan to be sought from China for high-speed rail project"

NO PROBLEM.......... Don't need to borrow........

The PM already has his eye on the School Education Funds..........

Thai children don't need an education.... so the upper class Thai's will have a big pool of 'POOR' to clean their Hiso homes.............. LOL........

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim, or is it something you made up?

[sawadeeken]

1 minute ago, halloween said:

 

2 hours ago, sawadeeken said:

       "PM: No loan to be sought from China for high-speed rail project"

NO PROBLEM.......... Don't need to borrow........

The PM already has his eye on the School Education Funds..........

Thai children don't need an education.... so the upper class Thai's will have a big pool of 'POOR' to clean their Hiso homes.............. LOL........

Do you have anything to substantiate your claim, or is it something you made up?

 

It was just a bit of 'Food for thought' and imho (in my humble opinion) there is more concern displayed by the 'Military Dictatorship' about 'Big face' for Military and Hiso folks and very little concern for education...

Did you happen to notice the 'LOL' (means: laughing out loud - for those who aren't up to date)........

Because the PM seems so obsessed with enhancing the country with everything from China and spending 'Billions' without concern for the 'common people'.......... All those submarines could have been higher education for deserving 'poor' Thai students.............

[Chris Lawrence]

5 hours ago, halloween said:

I know what was publicly declared in the press, which was there was no loan from the Chinese, which made the claim that they were paying too high an interest rate TO THE CHINESE, quite silly.  If you expect omniscience, seek elsewhere.

What your 2 irrelevant quotes have to do with the subject, or with what I posted is hard to discern. Then again I don't expect logic from you.

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about, have you son.

 

Where is the money coming from. Isn't that what the OP is about?

 

But a troll doesn't explain themselves whilst your posts show you know very little about Thailand. I have never claimed you are one that knows everything.

[halloween]

5 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

You haven't got a clue what you are talking about, have you son.

 

Where is the money coming from. Isn't that what the OP is about?

 

But a troll doesn't explain themselves whilst your posts show you know very little about Thailand. I have never claimed you are one that knows everything.

OK I'll bite. Though it isn't the subject at all, where do you think the finance is coming from? Please explain all details including interest rates, repayment schedule and bona fides of the lenders.

Or is that something I only should know?

[Machiavelli]

18 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

If it gets built it will be an accident waiting to happen.

In your dreams! The Chinese have the longest and most technologically advanced rail system in the world. The Brits or Americans don't even come close. Maybe the Germans and the Japs might compete on technology but in size they are dwarfed. 

Edited June 22, 2017 by Machiavelli

[chainarong]

Railroaded , more like the country will get reamed out big time..................................

[chainarong]

17 minutes ago, Machiavelli said:

In your dreams! The Chinese have the longest and most technologically advanced rail system in the world. The Brits or Americans don't even come close. Maybe the Germans and the Japs might compete on technology but in size they are dwarfed. 

And only one track has made a profit , all the rest are bad news,  do some reading up on Chinese H/S , one good read , what ever U do don't mention high speed trains , Also their export orders have slumped to nothing , I'm afraid China maybe trying to kick start their export dreams by using Thailand.

[Machiavelli]

9 minutes ago, chainarong said:

And only one track has made a profit , all the rest are bad news,  do some reading up on Chinese H/S , one good read , what ever U do don't mention high speed trains , Also their export orders have slumped to nothing , I'm afraid China maybe trying to kick start their export dreams by using Thailand.

No country has rail passenger trains making any profit. European and American trains make zilch profit. Americans still using 18th century rail technology.  We were talking about technology old boy. No country compares with the Chinese on rail technology. Go ahead and nitpick all you want. One more thing: this might come as a shock to you but days of Caucasian dominance are coming to a close. Everybody hopes we go away quietly. 

[Chris Lawrence]

8 hours ago, halloween said:

OK I'll bite. Though it isn't the subject at all, where do you think the finance is coming from? Please explain all details including interest rates, repayment schedule and bona fides of the lenders.

Or is that something I only should know?

They haven't got the ready cash to fund all the projects on the table. Yeah your right it may not come from the Chinese. The General had a meeting with Global Fund Managers the other day, so I would expect to come from the Equity Market. To get money here you will pay over the odds.

 

But that was what the OP was alluding too. Where is the money coming from.

 

The chances of being railroaded are high, even if not from the Chinese.

 

What do you think? 

[BuckBee]

another major waste of money and a bad deal made to look even worse with all the drivel and 44 implementation lol .

The general should keep his pants round his ankles as could be more productive in pleasing china if don;t waste time taking them up and down .

I got a 44 I would like use on these clowns .

[candide]

9 hours ago, Machiavelli said:

No country has rail passenger trains making any profit. European and American trains make zilch profit. Americans still using 18th century rail technology.  We were talking about technology old boy. No country compares with the Chinese on rail technology. Go ahead and nitpick all you want. One more thing: this might come as a shock to you but days of Caucasian dominance are coming to a close. Everybody hopes we go away quietly. 

You just forget one country (its name starts with F)....