Deadly London tower blaze began in Hotpoint fridge freezer, police say

[snoop1130]

Deadly London tower blaze began in Hotpoint fridge freezer, police say

By Michael Holden

 

 

LONDON (Reuters) - A fire that killed at least 79 people at a London tower block started in a Hotpoint fridge freezer, and the outside cladding engulfed by the blaze has since been shown to fail all safety tests, London police said on Friday.

 

Detective Superintendent Fiona McCormack said that in view of the heavy death toll, police were considering manslaughter charges over the disaster.

 

She said the Hotpoint model, FF175BP, involved was not subject to recall and the manufacturer was doing further tests.

 

"We now have expert evidence that the fire was not started deliberately," McCormack told reporters in London.

 

Britain ordered an immediate technical examination of the Hotpoint fridge model to establish whether further action needed to be taken, but said there was no need for owners to switch off their appliances.

 

Whirlpool Corp, the world’s largest maker of home appliances, owns the Hotpoint brand in the Europe and Asia Pacific regions. In the United States, the brand now belongs to Haier, following the Chinese group’s purchase of General Electric Co’s appliance business.

 

A spokesman for Whirlpool could not be immediately reached out of U.S. business hours.

 

Police said both the insulation and tiles used in cladding at the 24-storey Grenfell Tower block failed all post-fire safety tests.

 

"Preliminary tests show the insulation samples collected from Grenfell tower combusted soon after the test started," McCormack said.

 

Such were their concerns after the tests that the information was immediately shared with government to disseminate more widely.

 

"Given the deaths of so many people we are considering manslaughter as well as criminal offences and breaches of legislation and regulations," McCormack said.

 

The blaze, Britain's worst since World War Two, has heaped pressure on Prime Minister Theresa May, already fighting for her political survival after her party lost its parliamentary majority in a snap election on June 8.

 

When speaking about the 79 people dead or missing, presumed dead, McCormack said: "I fear that there are more."

 

(Additional reporting by Alistair Smout and Martinne Geller, writing by Guy Faulconbridge, editing by Ralph Boulton)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-6-23

[darksidedog]

Very early reports said it was a fridge that set fire to a kitchen, so that is now confirmed.

However, someone is going to need to explain why materials that fail all fire resistant testing came to be used on this building.

More importantly, how many others have the same insulation and cladding, and how quickly can it be removed?

This was a terrible tragedy. It is imperative, that immediate action is taken, to ensure it can never, ever, happen anywhere again.

[ChrisY1]

The cladding of this and other building in the UK and many other countries, has a major inbuilt flaw...which is, they are extremely combustible.

The question of blame for the use of this material lays with the people that approved the purchase and installation.

But.....London to a brick, nobody will be held accountable.......

[nasanews]

The real ugly face of racism have emerged in the name of foreigner hate.

[anon4546543]

1 hour ago, nasanews said:

The real ugly face of racism have emerged in the name of foreigner hate.

Err, where does that come from in this tragedy. You need to wait a few more weeks before bringing this ludicrous political

silly rant to any forum dateng, err sorry nananews. Pathetic post

[nasanews]

14 minutes ago, spiderorchid said:

Err, where does that come from in this tragedy. You need to wait a few more weeks before bringing this ludicrous political

silly rant to any forum dateng, err sorry nananews. Pathetic post

Wait for what?  I am fine with what Mark Thomas said, no further investigation is necessary.

Horrible accidents happen by man whether a kkk or isis recruits who would be unbelievably excited to kill innocent lives those we have to recognize where did we go wrong.

I wish people start to appreciate the big picture of life in all its verities and as soon their eyes see a picture they never zoom in to see details.

[anon4546543]

2 hours ago, nasanews said:

Wait for what?  I am fine with what Mark Thomas said, no further investigation is necessary.  Horrible accidents happen by man whether a kkk or isis recruits who would be unbelievably excited to kill innocent lives those we have to recognize where did we go wrong.  I wish people start to appreciate the big picture of life in all its verities and as soon their eyes see a picture they never zoom in to see details.

No further investigation is necessary? Yeah, lets lynch them, that is your outrageous comment.  And everyone is "racist". It is your everyday pom that is appalled at this disaster. After investigation, heads will roll and that includes the company and officials that approved a cladding that is not fire retardant. 

Where does racism come into it. Nationalities from all walks of life suffered. I would suggest that the poor were made vulnerable by shoddy "upgrades". But you want to make a racist issue and you should be condemned.

You are the racist!

[nasanews]

1 hour ago, spiderorchid said:

No further investigation is necessary? Yeah, lets lynch them, that is your outrageous comment.  And everyone is "racist". It is your everyday pom that is appalled at this disaster. After  investigation, heads will roll and that includes the company and officials that approved a cladding that is not fire retardant.  Where does racism come into it. Nationalities from all walks of life suffered. I would suggest that the poor were made vulnerable by shoddy "upgrades". But you want to make a racist issue and you should be condemned.  You are the racist!

I am responsible of what I say but I am not responsible how others understand it.

[anon4546543]

1 hour ago, nasanews said:

I am responsible of what I say but I am not responsible how others understand it.

You are irresponsible in what you say. Everyone except you is appalled by the tower fire.  Everyone

except you understands that an investigation and recommendations need to be made.  All the families are grieving and most of the world grieves with them.  Except you. You choose this disaster to make a cheap and unsubstanciated comment  about racism and foreigner hate. 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

You are irresponsible in what you say. Everyone except you is appalled by the tower fire.  Everyone

except you understands that an investigation and recommendations need to be made.  All the families are grieving and most of the world grieves with them.  Except you. You choose this disaster to make a cheap and unsubstanciated comment  about racism and foreigner hate. 

'Nananews' is correct. Some have used this tragedy to voice racist / bigoted views, including some TV members in other topics regards this matter - their posts were deleted by Mods.

Edited June 23, 2017 by simple1

[phantomfiddler]

10 hours ago, nasanews said:

The real ugly face of racism have emerged in the name of foreigner hate.

From what I have seen, the only thing visible is the hatred shown by the foreigners towards their British hosts !

[phantomfiddler]

Looks like the fridge was aptly named !

[Grouse]

I note from Hotpoint spares catalogue that the refrigerant gas used in the FF175BP Is indeed R600 - Butane!! I wondered what the BP suffix meant.

 

This is being kept quiet for some reason....

[nasanews]

7 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

You are irresponsible in what you say. Everyone except you is appalled by the tower fire.  Everyone

except you understands that an investigation and recommendations need to be made.  All the families are grieving and most of the world grieves with them.  Except you. You choose this disaster to make a cheap and unsubstanciated comment  about racism and foreigner hate. 

 

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

'Nananews' is correct. Some have used this tragedy to voice racist / bigoted views, including some TV members in other topics regards this matter - their posts were deleted by Mods.

Police consider manslaughter charges over deadly London tower block blaze

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/989283-police-consider-manslaughter-charges-over-deadly-london-tower-block-blaze/

[anon4546543]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

I note from Hotpoint spares catalogue that the refrigerant gas used in the FF175BP Is indeed R600 - Butane!! I wondered what the BP suffix meant.

 

This is being kept quiet for some reason....

If you are correct about butane being used as refrigerant, I am gobsmacked.

What lunatic engineer would use highly flammable gas in a common electrical appliance.

But I am sure in any event, the fridge fire would have been relatively local.

The real issue is the cladding on the building, those persons that approved this material for use as a building cladding

and all of the authorities (building supervisors, building inspectors and the fire department and so on) that appear to

have neglected any oversight into its use. Expect blame shifting to start.I am not fully up to date on this but a commission

of enquiry needs to be set up to not only get to the bottom of this one issue, but to find out how widespread this cladding is in use.

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

If you are correct about butane being used as refrigerant, I am gobsmacked.

What lunatic engineer would use highly flammable gas in a common electrical appliance.

But I am sure in any event, the fridge fire would have been relatively local.

The real issue is the cladding on the building, those persons that approved this material for use as a building cladding

and all of the authorities (building supervisors, building inspectors and the fire department and so on) that appear to

have neglected any oversight into its use. Expect blame shifting to start.I am not fully up to date on this but a commission

of enquiry needs to be set up to not only get to the bottom of this one issue, but to find out how widespread this cladding is in use.

Just look up R600 refrigerant.

 

My point is that has been kept quiet. There are other possible refrigerants but they cost more

 

The other new thing is that we know the Al panels had PE backing and this should not be used above 10m. There are FR versions and A2 which is incombustible for a few dollars more, but it looks like there were additional insulation materials. What are they? Urea based like UFFI? Styrene based such as XPS?

Edited June 24, 2017 by Grouse

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-diane-abbott-victims-number-hundreds-labour-shadow-home-secretary-a7806106.html

 

This woman is a hazard because of her inflammatory statements. Some body needs to show her the emergency exit.

[mrfill]

Isobutane as a refrigerant from wiki....

 

As a refrigerant, isobutane has an explosion risk in addition to the hazards associated with non-flammable CFC refrigerants. Reports surfaced in late 2009 suggesting the use of isobutane as a refrigerant in domestic refrigerators was potentially dangerous. One refrigerator explosion reported in the United Kingdom was suspected to have been caused as a result of isobutane leaking into the refrigerator cabinet and being ignited by sparks in the electrical system.^[11] Although unclear how serious this could be, at the time this report came out it was estimated 300 million refrigerators worldwide use isobutane as a refrigerant.

 

Well, that looks to me as though the dangers were well known over 7 years ago and not a lot has been done since then.

[anon4546543]

22 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Isobutane as a refrigerant from wiki....

 

As a refrigerant, isobutane has an explosion risk in addition to the hazards associated with non-flammable CFC refrigerants. Reports surfaced in late 2009 suggesting the use of isobutane as a refrigerant in domestic refrigerators was potentially dangerous. One refrigerator explosion reported in the United Kingdom was suspected to have been caused as a result of isobutane leaking into the refrigerator cabinet and being ignited by sparks in the electrical system.^[11] Although unclear how serious this could be, at the time this report came out it was estimated 300 million refrigerators worldwide use isobutane as a refrigerant.

 

Well, that looks to me as though the dangers were well known over 7 years ago and not a lot has been done since then.

I wonder if it is a world wide problem, not just a UK issue. Regardless of the serious cladding issue,

the use of flammable refrigerants in electrical systems must be seen as a serious issue.  A Commission of Enquiry needs to be announced by May to resolve all failures of the tower fire.  Not just a witch hunt, it needs to identify just how many basic safety standards are being ignored in order to minimise costs and increase profit. In addition it needs to examine local council and all the agencies of the government that have allowed this disaster to occur. Inspectors, builders the whole gamut. 

[mrfill]

Whether it was a butane filled fridge or not is not really the issue. It is not how the fire was started but how it spread so quickly and dangerously.

 

Questions such as - who decided to use the dangerous cladding and was it in the original specification? or Why has someone, somewhere, decided to use a flammable cladding that should not be used over 10m?

Kensington Council could publish the specifications and building inspectors reports within hours. But they won't..

Edited June 24, 2017 by mrfill

[anon4546543]

3 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Whether it was a butane filled fridge or not is not really the issue. It is not how the fire was started but how it spread so quickly and dangerously.

 

Questions such as - who decided to use the dangerous cladding and was it in the original specification? or Why has someone, somewhere, decided to use a flammable cladding that should not be used over 10m?

Kensington Council could publish the specifications and building inspectors reports within hours. But they won't..

Of course they won't. Serious legal issues here, both from the supplying contractor, the installing contractor, the oversight management of council officers and the fire brigade inspectors.

You can't blame them for their silence so far. The one time honourable confessing to oversights is now enmeshed in legal jargon.

 But rot them anyway, they did not uphold their public duty. Tick and flick merchants. 

 The case will go for at least 2 years, unless a full enquiry is held. That will not happen, May is a career politician, ducking ,weaving and obstruction is what all career pollies are taught at

New Westminster Politics 101. The old Westminster System faded and expired a long time ago.

[chickenslegs]

8 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Whether it was a butane filled fridge or not is not really the issue. It is not how the fire was started but how it spread so quickly and dangerously.

 

Questions such as - who decided to use the dangerous cladding and was it in the original specification? or Why has someone, somewhere, decided to use a flammable cladding that should not be used over 10m?

Kensington Council could publish the specifications and building inspectors reports within hours. But they won't..

Correct. There's 100+ ways that a fire could have started in a single apartment, but it should never have spread throughout the whole tower block. It seems fairly obvious that the cladding allowed the fire to spread, but there are other questions about the fire alarms and evacuation procedures.

 

I glanced a news item today that said there are at least another 17 London tower blocks with the same cladding.