observer90210 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, sanemax said: Blame the victim for being there in the first place ? Obviously not of course - that would be totally outrageous..... But I am sure a smart guy/gal like you get's the picture without me having to give a few basic, rudimentary, kindergarten clichés??, Like "don't stroll in the dark unlit street, late at night, with your fake (or genuine) Audemars Piguet well displayed on your wrist for instance??.... Or if you are a girl, "avoid twerking and rubbing your chest simultaneously at 03:00 am and carry on staring at a bunch of drunks on a deserted beach?".. Or avoid leaving your Gen. Xxx, MacBook Pro well visible on the dashboard of your car, and naturally consider it not necessary to lock your car either...etc. etc. etc. Get the picture my friend?..... Criminology research refers to this as "victimization", with absolutely no stigmatisation of the victim! Now I would tend to agree with the contradictors, that no empirical research gives any correlation between carelessness and becoming a victim... To keep things silly, simple and stupid, why not just avoid the odds and use some common sense?????... Edited June 28, 2017 by observer90210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 5 minutes ago, observer90210 said: Obviously not of course - that would be totally outrageous..... But I am sure a smart guy/gal like you get's the picture without me having to give a few basic, rudimentary, kindergarten clichés??, Like "don't stroll in the dark unlit street, late at night, with your fake (or genuine) Audemars Piguet well displayed on your wrist for instance??.... Or if you are a girl, "avoid twerking and rubbing your chest simultaneously at 03:00 am and carry on staring at a bunch of drunks on a deserted beach?".. Or avoid leaving your latest MacBook Pro well visible on the dashboard of your car, and naturally consider it not necessary to lock your car either...etc. etc. etc. Get the picture my friend?..... Criminology research refers to this as "victimization", with absolutely no stigmatisation of the victim! All the above situations that you state. Are you saying that this is the reason why so many people have been killed on KT? If girls want to twerk at 3 AM (who has done this BTW), thats no excuse for attacking, raping or killing them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, sanemax said: All the above situations that you state. Are you saying that this is the reason why so many people have been killed on KT? If girls want to twerk at 3 AM (who has done this BTW), thats no excuse for attacking, raping or killing them Obviously no problem on twerking and if you did not get the point, sorry for you. But if the girl is drunk, alone, and the place deserted with just some fishy types around, drunk or high....if you would consider it safe to act such, allow me to consider it unsafe and increasing one's chances of getting into trouble..... If one was to follow your thought dear fellow poster, it's like you suggest that you have every right to be free, enjoy life and have sex with a bar hooker, without a condom. ...You may or may not get HIV but you increase your chances to contract the virus and thus become a victim by solely your own fault! Edited June 28, 2017 by observer90210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 10 minutes ago, observer90210 said: Obviously no problem on twerking and if you did not get the point, sorry for you. But if the girl is drunk, alone, and the place deserted with just some fishy types around, drunk or high....if you would consider it safe to act such, allow me to consider it unsafe and increasing one's chances of getting into trouble.....I Who are we talking about here ? Who was "drunk, alone in a deserted place with some drunk stoned and fishy guys" ? As we are talking hypothetically , I do agree that a person putting themselves in that position , would be unwise , BUT, whoever carries out any rape or murder is entirely responsible for their own actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, sanemax said: Who are we talking about here ? Who was "drunk, alone in a deserted place with some drunk stoned and fishy guys" ? As we are talking hypothetically , I do agree that a person putting themselves in that position , would be unwise , BUT, whoever carries out any rape or murder is entirely responsible for their own actions well you know better what you are arguing about my dear chap, and "what" and "how" you did (or did not understand) my post #182, that have urged a series of amusing reactions from your behalf!..but as you seem eager to understand, we were obviously talking of victimization purely put, and not debating on notions of guilt from the perpetrators! Edited June 28, 2017 by observer90210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 31 minutes ago, observer90210 said: If one was to follow your thought dear fellow poster, it's like you suggest that you have every right to be free, enjoy life and have sex with a bar hooker, without a condom. ...You may or may not get HIV but you increase your chances to contract the virus and thus become a victim by solely your own fault! Yes, but cannot you really not see the difference, old wise one ? If I choose to have sex without a condom with a bar girl hooker and I caught HIV , I would accept the blame If , I was walking home at night, and got attacked, gang raped , by a bunch of ladyboys and caught HIV . I would blame them, and not myself Its all relative , rather than just blaming the victim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, sanemax said: Yes, but cannot you really not see the difference, old wise one ? If I choose to have sex without a condom with a bar girl hooker and I caught HIV , I would accept the blame If , I was walking home at night, and got attacked, gang raped , by a bunch of ladyboys and caught HIV . I would blame them, and not myself Its all relative , rather than just blaming the victim sure my smart fellow I do get your point with your limpid explainations!! ...but do you not see the common denominator in all of this, inherent from well intended thoughts?....how about prevention and having neither of the issues happen...by avoiding walking late, and not having unprotected interactions?...does it not seem a better alternative that calls on our deepest instincts of survival, that carry more value then "relativity" notions?...and you did not read fully a previous post that states that in victimization, the victim is never stigmatized! (blamed that is my friend) Edited June 28, 2017 by observer90210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 1 hour ago, observer90210 said: Obviously not of course - that would be totally outrageous..... But I am sure a smart guy/gal like you get's the picture without me having to give a few basic, rudimentary, kindergarten clichés??, Like "don't stroll in the dark unlit street, late at night, with your fake (or genuine) Audemars Piguet well displayed on your wrist for instance??.... Or if you are a girl, "avoid twerking and rubbing your chest simultaneously at 03:00 am and carry on staring at a bunch of drunks on a deserted beach?".. Or avoid leaving your Gen. Xxx, MacBook Pro well visible on the dashboard of your car, and naturally consider it not necessary to lock your car either...etc. etc. etc. Get the picture my friend?..... Criminology research refers to this as "victimization", with absolutely no stigmatisation of the victim! Now I would tend to agree with the contradictors, that no empirical research gives any correlation between carelessness and becoming a victim... To keep things silly, simple and stupid, why not just avoid the odds and use some common sense?????... So, basically . People with any wealth or a vagina should avoid at all circumstances, any places were people have little wealth and a penis ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, sanemax said: So, basically . People with any wealth or a vagina should avoid at all circumstances, any places were people have little wealth and a penis ? Well your comment is quite surprising!!.....I am tempted to resume a sentence in seven (7) words!....."don't be stupid - take care of yourself".... And, you will be fine, with reference to the initial post #182, even in a full moon party surrounded with gold digging bling bling vaginas!! Edited June 28, 2017 by observer90210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 38 minutes ago, observer90210 said: Well your comment is quite surprising!!.....I am tempted to resume a sentence in seven (7) words!....."don't be stupid - take care of yourself".... And, you will be fine, with reference to the initial post #182, even in a full moon party surrounded with gold digging bling bling vaginas!! This thread isnt about me . I would such like to speak in such a blase, bohemian condescending manner old chap, but , at 4 AM. I really cannot be bothered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 11 hours ago, bannork said: Don't worry Mr smedly, I am merely replying to requests and accusations from someone who is perhaps new to this topic. Like everyone else I am awaiting more news on the rumour of the partially burnt body. Apart from that there is indeed nothing to say. yes and you are like a broken record honestly give it a rest..................................it is called trolling and baiting on TVF and on this thread you are No1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 28, 2017 Share Posted June 28, 2017 Just now, smedly said: yes and you are like a broken record honestly give it a rest..................................it is called trolling and baiting on TVF and on this thread you are No1 Smedly, I have never trolled or baited, i'm a busy person and don't have the time for such nonsense. If I upset you just put me on your ignore list. Now, do you think it's the same girl in the photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khlongtoey Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 the real troll, is TV, as anyone who is in LOS or comes and goes, would be foolish to say anything about "the macabre secret" e.g. "the "family" that runs the island, esp with the new computer laws . self censorship is the new norm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, sanemax said: This thread isnt about me . I would such like to speak in such a blase, bohemian condescending manner old chap, but , at 4 AM. I really cannot be bothered well my dear fellow, looks in contrary that something did quite bother you with regard to your numerous questions, following post no# 181 et al..... that I hope having answered...time to go to bed for you now and chill down a bit! good night Edited June 29, 2017 by observer90210 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 28/06/2017 at 11:29 AM, bannork said: Check the use of the word apparently in my post. oh apparently - so no evidence then - just your own conspiracy theory - the very thing you’re blaming others for!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 On 28/06/2017 at 11:35 AM, bannork said: How do you know this is what happened time and time again to quote your own words? Nearly every death can be explained by abuse of substances and alcohol and subsequent accidents or mishap. The disappearance of Valentina Novozhenova is a separate case as is of course Hannah and David's deaths. and of course you can provide us with sound evidence proving were all wrong and its 100% down to “substance abuse” …..Im waiting to see what substances they were abusing…were they sniffing the varnish on the lockers in the hotels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 23 hours ago, smedly said: This thread is not about David and Hannah there are plenty of lengthy discussions about that tragic disgrace This thread is about a missing young blonde girl that was last seen in Koh Tao and went missing and has never been found dead or alive, there is not really much to say beyond that, there are various rumours around that she liked to swim and snorkel, she was last seen in a shop on cctv and then was never seen again or at least nobody is disclosing anything about seeing her, in fact there has been very little disclosed about this young girl She went to Koh tao and vanished without a trace .... go figure WRONG……this thread is about “is the island hiding a macabre secret QUOTE!! THEREFORE ALL incidents on Koh Tao going back to the FIRST recording of evidence IS RELEVANT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 18 hours ago, bannork said: Don't worry Mr smedly, I am merely replying to requests and accusations from someone who is perhaps new to this topic. Like everyone else I am awaiting more news on the rumour of the partially burnt body. Apart from that there is indeed nothing to say. I think the best thing would be for bannork to go and spend two weeks on Koh Tao near Sairee beach, whilst there he should go out and get piss*d every night - if he comes back then maybe his refusal to accept what we all KNOW and he refuses to credit may have some credibility!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 14 hours ago, bannork said: According to Valentina's mother , her daughter had been learning to dive for 4 years- always in swimming pools which is not surprising as she lived in Russia. The reference to wanting to beat her personal record of 22 metres came from her own Facebook post.. https://www.sweet3mango.com/2017/03/13/mother-missing-russian-tourist-arrives-koh-tao-admits-never-dived-sea/ WOW a swimming pool in Russia with a depth of 22 meters thats impressive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, bizboi said: oh apparently - so no evidence then - just your own conspiracy theory - the very thing you’re blaming others for!!!! I'm not the one proposing a conspiracy theory. The ones who are accusing the Koh Tao residents of murdering Valentina are the conspirators. I'm simply pointing out their lack of evidence. What about the photos of her friend in Vietnam in April with a lady looking very like Valentina? Do you think that is her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, bizboi said: WOW a swimming pool in Russia with a depth of 22 meters thats impressive!! Her record of 22 metres was her record in Thailand in the sea me thinks. Ask her Mum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 5 minutes ago, bizboi said: I think the best thing would be for bannork to go and spend two weeks on Koh Tao near Sairee beach, whilst there he should go out and get piss*d every night - if he comes back then maybe his refusal to accept what we all KNOW and he refuses to credit may have some credibility!! Don't loads of farangs go to Sairee bech and get legless every night? https://www.tripadvisor.co.za/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g303910-d3518923-i90546806-Maya_Beach_Club-Koh_Tao_Surat_Thani_Province.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, bannork said: I'm not the one proposing a conspiracy theory. The ones who are accusing the Koh Tao residents of murdering Valentina are the conspirators. I'm simply pointing out their lack of evidence. What about the photos of her friend in Vietnam in April with a lady looking very like Valentina? Do you think that is her? “conspiracy theory” is at best just a mocking term when there are so many unexplained incidents - “the dark side of thailand” article readily describes 3 other murders not even mentioned on this thread - you need to be a bit more informed on the past history of Koh tao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, bannork said: Her record of 22 metres was her record in Thailand in the sea me thinks. Ask her Mum. Thats not what YOU said before - you said her “diving experience was in a swimming pool in russia” - look back on your own posts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, bannork said: Don't loads of farangs go to Sairee bech and get legless every night? https://www.tripadvisor.co.za/LocationPhotoDirectLink-g303910-d3518923-i90546806-Maya_Beach_Club-Koh_Tao_Surat_Thani_Province.html …and at least 8 out of those loads in the last three years have died Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Just now, bizboi said: Thats not what YOU said before - you said her “diving experience was in a swimming pool in russia” - look back on your own posts!! On the contrary you need to look up on some links.-' wanted to beat her personal record for diving, indicated as 22 meters in her Facebook post' https://www.sweet3mango.com/2017/03/13/mother-missing-russian-tourist-arrives-koh-tao-admits-never-dived-sea/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, bizboi said: …and at least 8 out of those loads in the last three years have died They forgot yolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, bannork said: According to Valentina's mother , her daughter had been learning to dive for 4 years- always in swimming pools which is not surprising as she lived in Russia. The reference to wanting to beat her personal record of 22 metres came from her own Facebook post.. ??????? are you still denying what you said?? I think you need to research your posts before you accuse other people of being conspiracists!! Edited June 29, 2017 by bizboi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannork Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 1 minute ago, bizboi said: 15 hours ago, bannork said: According to Valentina's mother , her daughter had been learning to dive for 4 years- always in swimming pools which is not surprising as she lived in Russia. The reference to wanting to beat her personal record of 22 metres came from her own Facebook post.. ??????? are you still denying what you said?? Er, she was using Facebook in Thailand whilst she was diving. You really shouldn't argue with me because you will make Mr smedly irritated. He really wants me to stop posting on this forum and you keep raising points that have already been talked about. Boring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizboi Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Just now, bannork said: Er, she was using Facebook in Thailand whilst she was diving. You really shouldn't argue with me because you will make Mr smedly irritated. He really wants me to stop posting on this forum and you keep raising points that have already been talked about. Boring! Yes …..Im boring and you’re…………..well…... just plain …………..WRONG!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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