Thailand to get tough on foreigners working without work permits, employers also targeted

[Moti24]

16 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

 

 

Brits are just cheap, always have been and like the Greeks to

lazy to work past 50 y/o.

"I lived in London for 8 years.

 

Many retired Brits sit and talk all day about

how they have no money, living so close to

the edge, many in their early 50's. As soon as

the get a little pension they take the small

amount and regret it later.  To lazy to work 

until they are in their 60's."

 

The post is about foreigners working without a work permit, and you, straight away, turn it into a Brit bashing exercise!

 

I'm pretty sure in assuming that you're an American.  I have good friends that are American, whom I've known for a number of years, even before my time in Thailand.  I've also been to America several times, and have no problem with the country or the general population.  You, however, seem to be a self-opinionated bigot who tars everybody with the same brush.

 

I worked for 10 years teaching English in Thai schools, with a work permit, before I retired 2 years ago.  The one nationality of foreign teacher that I had no time for was an American foreign teacher.  I have never known such a lazy bunch of misfits, whom did next door to nothing regarding teaching the English language, every single one of them.  During my 10 years at 2 schools, one private and one government, I have seen American foreign teachers turn-up late every morning and going early every afternoon, arrive scruffy and still drunk from the night before or high on some sort of drug, sleep in the office when should have been teaching and not going to some lessons because they couldn't be bothered, watch videos during any free time instead of marking books, not turning-up for any parents days or sports days, disappearing continually during the day to sit outside 7/11 for hours on end while they smoke, not wear a tie when directed by the school director; I could go on, I have plenty of examples like those.  All the above examples don't apply to all of the teachers, but pretty near.  The thing that p****d me off the most was watching them collect their salary at the end of the month, knowing that their students couldn't even put a simple sentence together.  Look around the BTS in Bangkok and spot the American foreign teacher flitting around allegedly teaching Business English; they'll be the ones in jeans and flip flops; no disrespect meant to those who aren't here just to make a quick buck.  At the government school that I worked at, the only conversation in an office with 12 Americans and me was about parties, holidays and weekends, no conversation at all about the students or any school work in any shape or form.  Then, come final exam time, they were asking me how to make-up an exam because nobody except me knew how.

 

Next time you decide to go on a Brit bashing escapade, perhaps you'd like to think first.  America is no different to the UK.  I don't tar all my fellow countrymen with the same brush.  But sometimes, I'm ashamed to admit that I'm British, mostly due to the pond life from the UK that make it their life's work to be a pain in the backside everywhere they go.  Every country in the world has similar pond life, but wouldn't it be boring if everything in the world was perfect!

 

Finally, to any American foreign teachers working in Thailand, who actually do their best to teach the English language and don't fall into the above category, I mean no disrespect.  My comments above only apply to the American foreign teachers that I have had the displeasure of meeting in a work environment.

[jspill]

3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Simply factually untrue.. And the mark of someone who has is desperate to read things that are clearly not what was said. .. The labour deptment have explicitly commented on 'online work' without any local presence, affiliate marketing, blogging, etc.. 

It isnt possible to say it more clearly or more explicitly than this.. Reading it your way, when the question and answer is written the exact other, is simple denial. 

 

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/Is-uploading-videos-YouTube-considered-work/1532

 

 

http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/Do-need-0145business-visa-work-online/1175

 

 

There are those third party soundbites you always link to again. Alleged quotes from individual members of staff in 2010 and 2014. I could create a website and type up the opposite. There's nothing official from the horse's mouth. 

 

You've been linking to those and only those for almost a decade in these kind of threads yet here I am still working online.

 

Many explain to immigration / consulates exactly what they do, run an online business, and get approved for visas / let through borders still to this day. The DOL never gets mentioned and doesn't seem to actively be doing anything. No one has ever said to me oh you need to join an umbrella company either.

 

Even if it is illegal clearly they don't care because we're not harming anyone and if it ever became a priority for them they'd create a new e-visa status for us, ask us to move to that, and have us pay whatever fees to continue doing what we're doing. 

 

Hardly the crime of the century is it. 

[jspill]

10 hours ago, pepi2005 said:

wrong assumption. If you're working in Thailand, you have to obey Thai laws.

What law, another guy that can't link to anything.

 

If you're living in Thailand don't purport to be a Thai lawyer or authority.

[little mary sunshine]

22 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

"I lived in London for 8 years.

 

Many retired Brits sit and talk all day about

how they have no money, living so close to

the edge, many in their early 50's. As soon as

the get a little pension they take the small

amount and regret it later.  To lazy to work 

until they are in their 60's."

 

The post is about foreigners working without a work permit, and you, straight away, turn it into a Brit bashing exercise!

 

I'm pretty sure in assuming that you're an American.  I have good friends that are American, whom I've known for a number of years, even before my time in Thailand.  I've also been to America several times, and have no problem with the country or the general population.  You, however, seem to be a self-opinionated bigot who tars everybody with the same brush.

 

I worked for 10 years teaching English in Thai schools, with a work permit, before I retired 2 years ago.  The one nationality of foreign teacher that I had no time for was an American foreign teacher.  I have never known such a lazy bunch of misfits, whom did next door to nothing regarding teaching the English language, every single one of them.  During my 10 years at 2 schools, one private and one government, I have seen American foreign teachers turn-up late every morning and going early every afternoon, arrive scruffy and still drunk from the night before or high on some sort of drug, sleep in the office when should have been teaching and not going to some lessons because they couldn't be bothered, watch videos during any free time instead of marking books, not turning-up for any parents days or sports days, disappearing continually during the day to sit outside 7/11 for hours on end while they smoke, not wear a tie when directed by the school director; I could go on, I have plenty of examples like those.  All the above examples don't apply to all of the teachers, but pretty near.  The thing that p****d me off the most was watching them collect their salary at the end of the month, knowing that their students couldn't even put a simple sentence together.  Look around the BTS in Bangkok and spot the American foreign teacher flitting around allegedly teaching Business English; they'll be the ones in jeans and flip flops; no disrespect meant to those who aren't here just to make a quick buck.  At the government school that I worked at, the only conversation in an office with 12 Americans and me was about parties, holidays and weekends, no conversation at all about the students or any school work in any shape or form.  Then, come final exam time, they were asking me how to make-up an exam because nobody except me knew how.

 

Next time you decide to go on a Brit bashing escapade, perhaps you'd like to think first.  America is no different to the UK.  I don't tar all my fellow countrymen with the same brush.  But sometimes, I'm ashamed to admit that I'm British, mostly due to the pond life from the UK that make it their life's work to be a pain in the backside everywhere they go.  Every country in the world has similar pond life, but wouldn't it be boring if everything in the world was perfect!

 

Finally, to any American foreign teachers working in Thailand, who actually do their best to teach the English language and don't fall into the above category, I mean no disrespect.  My comments above only apply to the American foreign teachers that I have had the displeasure of meeting in a work environment.

Expressing ones self, telling the truth, as seen and observed is

not Brit bashing, just relating the facts,   Sick and tired of the

Brits always complaining and to lazy to work and retire at a

proper retirement age with an adequate pension.  As far as

being American 5555555 no Maple Leaf on thr the Stars and

Stripes 

[zib]

17 hours ago, ukrules said:

They do appear to target chefs / restaurant managers from what I've seen. If you do one thing outside the very specific and narrow definition of your job they want the money.

 

Yeah. It's legal what I did anyway. Just either pay them under the table or go to court... don't have time for that.

 

Regarding "manual labor" it has to be the main thing of the job to be illegal. Let's say construction worker or like gardener.

 

It doesn't apply to all manual labor since that would be insane heh. Then I wouldn't even be allowed to lift a pen to sign something with So just the police mafia needing some money.

[perthperson]

10 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

Expressing ones self, telling the truth, as seen and observed is

not Brit bashing, just relating the facts,   Sick and tired of the

Brits always complaining and to lazy to work and retire at a

proper retirement age with an adequate pension.  As far as

being American 5555555 no Maple Leaf on thr the Stars and

Stripes 

Some of us Brits with good jobs work hard and can legally retire at the age of 55 with a index linked final salary pension which does not leave one poor. Canadians on the other hand --------------------

[little mary sunshine]

14 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Some of us Brits with good jobs work hard and can legally retire at the age of 55 with a index linked final salary pension which does not leave one poor. Canadians on the other hand --------------------

Canadian's have investments that off set their frozen pensions..  

I must have the only poor Brits in Thailand surrounding the pool

and constantly complaining about the price of a proper British

breakfast and the price of dinner at a restaurant!.  Sad way to live!!

 

[perthperson]

Yea like the 

1 minute ago, little mary sunshine said:

 Sad way to live!!

 

 

Yea like the Maple leaf who once lived near us -- Booted out for failing to pay the rent -- the few possessions he had were dumped in the street. 

 

There is good and not so good in this world. Seek to admire the good and offer assistance to the others. 

[Thai Ron]

1 minute ago, little mary sunshine said:

Canadian's have investments that off set their frozen pensions..  

I must have the only poor Brits in Thailand surrounding the pool

and constantly complaining about the price of a proper British

breakfast and the price of dinner at a restaurant!.  Sad way to live!!

 

I don't agree with your comments on Brits not wanting to work past 50 but I won't argue with your observations about Brits crying about the cost of a pint or a breakfast.

It's karmic retribution

Most of them voted for Brexit and now they're suffering the consequences as the pound heads further down the U-bend.

A lot more of them will be heading home before the whole thing's over

[balo]

Nice try and wishful thinking if you make money here then you are working HERE

Nonsense , I make my money abroad in my registered company in Norway . I still live here most of the year but what I earn in my home country got nothing to do with Thailand.

The money I earn are transfered into my Norwegian bank account . All I do in Thailand is to spend money and all Thais I know are very happy to get my business.

[Moti24]

39 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

Expressing ones self, telling the truth, as seen and observed is

not Brit bashing, just relating the facts,   Sick and tired of the

Brits always complaining and to lazy to work and retire at a

proper retirement age with an adequate pension.  As far as

being American 5555555 no Maple Leaf on thr the Stars and

Stripes 

There you go again!  All Brits tarred with the same brush!  

 

You're still North American, like it or not!

[The Dark Lord]

22 hours ago, ukrules said:

Working in Thailand is a lot of hassle, unless someone else does all the paperwork for you I would not recommend it, there's plenty of other countries which make things a whole lot easier.

 

I know someone who was fined for painting a wall and know of someone else who was fined for momentarily holding some cables up for a workman.

 

If you work in Thailand as a foreigner and you will be surveilled by under cover police and they will pounce if you so much as make one tiny 'mistake' - this is with a work permit.

 

You know  UKRmy friend, I was lambasted roundly by certain TVF flames for saying such occurrences happen. I was ignorant, stupid, a thai hater, lived in an alternative universe etc etc etc. I just hope those dreamers get to read this item on TVF and have sufficient balls to admit that they were utterly wrong, maybe even going as far as actually apologising. 

 

But it I doubt it.

 

thanks for confirming what my posts said anyway. 

[psyvolt]

3 hours ago, Echo Tango said:

 

Bugger off, eh? Expats get upset about these issues because there is no reciprocity between Thailand and their home countries. Thais have so many benefits and opportunities in my home country, the United States, than I'll ever have here in Thailand! It's simply not fair and this is a good forum to vent your frustration about it.

 

So what....

Life's not fair sometimes.

Don't think there is anything stopping you from leaving to go back to America where you seem to think you will have a more privileged lifestyle.

[little mary sunshine]

18 minutes ago, Moti24 said:

There you go again!  All Brits tarred with the same brush!  

 

You're still North American, like it or not!

Speaking the truth...Proud to be North American!!

[psyvolt]

17 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Oh and my money my rules

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha yeah ok mate. 

[little mary sunshine]

29 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

I don't agree with your comments on Brits not wanting to work past 50 but I won't argue with your observations about Brits crying about the cost of a pint or a breakfast.

It's karmic retribution

Most of them voted for Brexit and now they're suffering the consequences as the pound heads further down the U-bend.

A lot more of them will be heading home before the whole thing's over

If you can't afford to live in Thailand that is truly sad,

one of the cheapest places in the world to live!   Time to

go home and work and make some money to add to their

pensions.

[darksidedog]

There is one thing about this new law that I like and that is the heavy fines for people employing illegal workers. A while back I used to visit Banglamung and Pattaya Soi 9 police cells three times a week to give food and water to those incarcerated. Every month around the 29-30th we would see a large number of Cambodians and Burmese workers who had been rounded up on building sites, a day or two before they were due to be paid. To think that the employers, who were clearly having them nicked so as to avoid paying their wages are now subject to huge fines, brings a smile to my face. I suspect that thoroughly evil practice will now end.

[Golden Triangle]

18 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

I lived in London for 8 years.

 

Many retired Brits sit and talk all day about

how they have no money, living so close to

the edge, many in their early 50's. As soon as

the get a little pension they take the small

amount and regret it later.  To lazy to work 

until they are in their 60's.

You are talking B******S, I was made redundant, took the money and the pension (Civil Service Gold plated) that was offered, I had some savings and a lump from my late mother, finished work one week, feet up and relaxing in Thailand the following week, I would have stayed on in work until normal retirement age but could not, I get the State Pension next year, sorted thank you very much.  

[advancebooking]

21 hours ago, Dave67 said:

Surely 5 years in jail for not having a work permit is a bit harsh. I can't think of another country where that would be threatened

maybe north korea

[Rc2702]

19 hours ago, Thai Ron said:

Fat chance. They're the ones who've got money to burn.

It's the Brits, Eurotrash and Aussies who can't cut it here any more as their currencies plumb the depths.

All over Bangkok, Brits can be heard cursing the cost of a perfectly reasonably priced full English breakfast.

Nah Ron it's not that but show me a decent full English anywhere in thailand I aint one of these hip non grease eating muppets either. I had one in bkk one and that was London Cafe on soi 63 ekkamai if I recall correctly.if it's good no one's complaining.

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, jspill said:

There are those third party soundbites you always link to again. Alleged quotes from individual members of staff in 2010 and 2014. I could create a website and type up the opposite. There's nothing official from the horse's mouth. 

 

You've been linking to those and only those for almost a decade in these kind of threads yet here I am still working online.

 

Many explain to immigration / consulates exactly what they do, run an online business, and get approved for visas / let through borders still to this day. The DOL never gets mentioned and doesn't seem to actively be doing anything. No one has ever said to me oh you need to join an umbrella company either.

 

Even if it is illegal clearly they don't care because we're not harming anyone and if it ever became a priority for them they'd create a new e-visa status for us, ask us to move to that, and have us pay whatever fees to continue doing what we're doing. 

 

Hardly the crime of the century is it. 

People drive bikes without helmets.. That doesnt make the act of driving a bike without a helmet legal. People have been charged with the crime of working online and deported, how can that happen if its a not a crime ??

 

You are confusing enforcement with legality. You then backtrack and say "even if it is illegal" so you really deep down know the truth.. 

 

Immigration, and consulates, are not responsible for labour law.. Never have been.. May as well go and ask the noodle shop or the dentist.. Given I have provided you 2 direct sources, with names, from the responsible department, can you provide any country facts from the labour department or employment office saying its fine by them. I mean your making the claim, I gave you 2 sources showing thats not correct, your source at the labour department who says otherwise is ??? Them being the actual people responsible for it. 

[LivinLOS]

23 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

If you can't afford to live in Thailand that is truly sad,

one of the cheapest places in the world to live!   Time to

go home and work and make some money to add to their

pensions.

Dont know when the last time you went back was.. But for an acceptable / decent standard of living UK is pretty much cheaper than Thailand. 

 

Portugal even moreso.. 

 

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Thai Ron said:

Rubbish.

What if the value of your condo increases? That's making money.

What if the value of stock you bought here increases? That's making money.

 

Owning assets doesnt need a work permit.. Same as owning a local business.. Owning equity or bonds.. 

 

Performing actions (physical or mental) for which you are paid money is always work in thier eyes.. Sometimes even without gaining money. 

[The Dark Lord]

37 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

Speaking the truth...Proud to be North American!!

Each to his own!

[The Dark Lord]

36 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

If you can't afford to live in Thailand that is truly sad,

one of the cheapest places in the world to live!   Time to

go home and work and make some money to add to their

pensions.

No miss sunshine, it is far better to go home, do nothing, get the state to pay for everything even topping up your OAP contributions, get free medical and dental, subsidised transport then at a later date come back out. 

 

Dint know now if you are British or not and not overly concerned but when the currency tanks, for whatever reason, by over 20% almost overnight it is time to  review the apparent cheapness of living here. 

 

I certainly do do not consider it cheap to pay either 380% import duty based on original price for a ten year old car nor paying Bht 4.5 mio ( roughly £105k) for a car that costs me £40k in the UK, nor do I find it particularly cheap to pay ten times more than my wife pays to go into a dirty government run park. I do not find it cheap either to pay medical and dental bills that are not covered by insurance.

 

I was made made redundant at age 50 from an international company and though I was a senior manager with more than enough qualifications , it has been a massive task to try and find employment coming across ageism at almost every step. I decided to move out here and not be a burden on the already over burdened state. My reward is to get ( in the fullness of time) a frozen pension from the government whom I am trying not to burden. That same government is happy however to rape me annually in taxes for providing properties for people who cannot afford to buy their own. 

 

Do you you honestly think it would be better for me to go home? It would certainly, in the long run, cost both the government the taxpayer ( almost the same) and me a shed sight more if I did. 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, balo said:

 

Nonsense , I make my money abroad in my registered company in Norway . I still live here most of the year but what I earn in my home country got nothing to do with Thailand.

The money I earn are transfered into my Norwegian bank account . All I do in Thailand is to spend money and all Thais I know are very happy to get my business.
 

 

 

It depends on where you are when work (that the company makes) is physically performed.. If you are in Thailand, working online, the labour department has been absolutely clear. That kind of working online needs a work permit. 

If your income is from royalties, annuities, or other passive income. No it doesnt, however if you are in Thailand more than 183 days per year it still needs to be declared and potentially owe taxes on it depending on what year it is remitted into the kingdom. 

[maewang99]

Thailand is a place where Zero Sum Game is always assumed. 

there's a limited number of jobs.... requiring not much other than labor or simple services, so protect those jobs for the Thai people.... or at a minimum put on a show that that is what you are supposedly accomplishing...

 

but never try to make real wealth.... by catching up with technology advances and then making some of your own leaps... with whatever kind of workers you can find.

 

[Thai Ron]

5 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Dont know when the last time you went back was.. But for an acceptable / decent standard of living UK is pretty much cheaper than Thailand. 

 

Portugal even moreso.. 

 

Yeah that's why so many Brits are fighting tooth and nail to stay in Thailand despite the plunging pound, isn't it?

They just love the higher cost of living here, don't they?

[Bastos60]

19 hours ago, petedk said:

Where do you get that information from?

 

What about English teachers on 25,000 Baht? They need work permits.

Edit: (Sorry about the font... not sure what happened)

 

19 hours ago, petedk said:

No way are there bribes under the table. I work for a government university and the salary is 28,000 THB. I have to have a work permit.

 

Actually, it doesn't sound all that unreasonable.
When a company brings in foreigners for certain work/projects/tasks, you can expect them to be paid far more than what a Thai with the same competencies is paid in Thailand.

A company would only be allowed to bring in those foreigners if there is insufficient people available with similar knowlegde/experience/competency.

 

How much does a Thai english teacher earn? Can I assume it would be less?

In every professional field different minimums might apply.

 

This is no fact ofcourse as I have no experience with work permits in Thailand, but I apply the same reasoning as any company in any world hiring foreign experts will have to pay
far higher salaries than locally sourced professionals.

[maxpower]

2 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

Expressing ones self, telling the truth, as seen and observed is

not Brit bashing, just relating the facts,   Sick and tired of the

Brits always complaining and to lazy to work and retire at a

proper retirement age with an adequate pension.  As far as

being American 5555555 no Maple Leaf on thr the Stars and

Stripes 

Little mary sunshine and all of your cuteness.

 

There's a Brit living in the apartment next to me. He retired at 54; picks up a huge pension each month and constantly moans about the price of beer and food. Its what the Brits do, and next to taking the piss out of every other culture on the planet, its the national pastime.

You only get one life and its very short. Avoiding having to work until the body starts to fail and the lights almost out is my top priority.